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600:. As for your point about bank notes, it's also true that the Tudor rose appeared on all 20 pence coins between 1982 and 2008 and continues to appear on all £1 coins since 2017, as well as having appeared on the 2013 £1 coin, the predecimal 2/- coin, as well as on numerous other Sterling coins since the 1500s. Apart from that, the device is also recognizable as a symbol of England on the
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individual de jure coats of arms and their flags are long established and well known to the general public. The UK arms are not appropriate as they reptesent the country as a whole, not each individual constituent country. Using flags for
England, Scotland and Wales appears to be the best way of having a recognisable and appropriate image for their politics infobox.
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either as a heraldic banner or as the variants used to represent the
English national football and Cricket teams. If you still feel that the historic arms are not suitable for use in this info box, then I am sure we can both agree that the most commonly known symbol to represent England is the in fact the
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The standard practice on
Knowledge (XXG) is to use a coat of arms "Politics of..." info boxes. If a suitable coat of arms or similar device is not available, the established practice is to use a flag instead. There is no established practice on Knowledge (XXG) for using a plant badge on politics info
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I understand your reasoning John, and this template does present some rather unique problems. The convention is to use an official government emblem in a national politics template, and of course one does not exist for
England since there is no 'English government' as such. The best we could think of
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symbol to represent
England. They are featured within the Royal arms of the United Kingdom and also feature on the new Bank of England 5, 10 and 20 pound notes, along with arms representing the other constituent countries of the UK. The historic arms of England are widely used in a sporting context,
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Using coats of arms may be the norm for sovereign states but in the case of UK constituent countries, there is no established consensus - a flag is used for wales and now also for
Scotland. Northern Ireland uses an ad hoc "politics of northern ireland" iamge. The UK constituent countries do not have
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I changed the image yesterday to an image of the arms of
England, but it was changed back to the UK arms almost immediately. England is not a sovereign state, it is part of a state (the UK) and as such has no real government but a sub-national regional government. I therefore thought it was more
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was to use the UK Government's version of the royal arms - since in practice, after devolution several UK Government departments - Health, Education, Communities - have become "England only" outfits. Not an ideal solution perhaps, but I don't think that we could agree anything better.
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The long-accepted heraldic badge of
England is no less well known than in the coat of arms of the Plantagenet kings, and have been used officially centuries more recently. How is a heraldic badge not a "similar device"? As for it being very well known outside the UK, the
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would be appropriate as the traditional heraldic emblem of
England? Or perhaps the template should use the arms of HM Government, on the basis that many Whitehall departments are now essentially exercising powers and functions in England only?
249:. Notwithstanding the fact that there is no "English Government" as such, are there any heraldic-style alternatives to the flag of England that would bring the template more into line with the other UK nations and elsewhere? Maybe the
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appropriate to use the traditional arms of the land rather than the arms of the whole country of which
England is a part, even if the arms of England also is part of the arms of the UK.
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anyway. To an outsider, the rose is likely to confuse in my opinion. Not reverting, but just expressing my concern. At least the flag was clearer in that respect. What about a map?
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boxes. Additionally, the plant badge of England is probably not very well known outside of UK so the image will not aid readers in identifying which polity the info box refers to.
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I would prefer an image of some sort, if only for consistency with the vast majority of other politics & government templates. Perhaps the arms of HM Government, used at
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Quite bizarre that you're alleging this is an "obscure plant badge"! Who uses these arms to represent England? The historic arms of England are emphatically
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Does the template need an image at all then? The rose, flag, crest, whatever, just seems volatile and decorative, and against the spirit of
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used to represent the English national football team! Look closer, and you'll see the football team actually uses the arms of the
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The vast majority of politics templates use a coat of arms or other official government emblem in their infobox - see for example
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I agree Pondle. The Royal Arms are used by the major UK departments, and are the traditional English arms for the Realm.
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The use of the coats of arms of a country with its "Politics of " template is standardised in Knowledge (XXG): see
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on Knowledge (XXG). If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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has objected to changing the image without discussion. Does anyone else object to the change?
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