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1712:, but when a change affects more than two million pages, we really wouldn't want the usual "Aaaagggghhhh, they changed it! Change it back right now!" response. If we get a backlash on this one, it's sort of unfortunate, but it only affects 23 pages. The effect on the servers would be basically unnoticeable.
569:
Some issues: Apparently you tried to replace aling="center" and similar constructs by. That's pointless, for modern browsers there's no difference, for old browsers it breaks the alignment. Very critical for left+right, old browsers take this as hint to start floating left+right. Just leave it as it
1707:
skin). I'd also be happy to change that (aiming for slightly lighter color/higher contrast, because it feels dark when there's a lot of banners at the top of a talk page, and higher contrast improves accessibility). However, that would affect a h-u-g-e number of pages, and I think it would need a
261:
works under certain conditions. If the cell padding / spacing is too big for your browser simply shrink it, but not to zero. Or overwrite it with CSS, then you get the CSS version, and I get the legacy version. The archive link is a PITA on the talk pages, maybe a Qif-talk link would be better, but
333:
Missing colon: that was a critical race, you did your rv magic before documenting it, I added the talk shortcuts at the same time, and my comment here (see below) came before your comment, therefore I missed it... ;-) Yes, I'm using the monster mozilla on purpose, OS/2 Warp 3 isn't tested with FF,
978:
supposed to find the real one? My handsome rule is: if there is not logical sequence, use the alphabet. You, otoh, still keep pointing to a (possible) early habit or coincidence (or, five actually). And I am right to say: if you have no logic for the current sequence, it is correct to change all
543:
for a list of MediaWiki variables. =) As for it's use on other projects/languages, it happens from time to time and little pre-emptive measures like this can make life easier on those copying/pasting it. =) (Of course it's doubtful they call their archive an "Archive", but it's one less thing to
289:
Ick.. you use this on purpose? =) It might be possible to detect the current namespace and omit the archive link on talk pages (AzaToth probably has a quick idea for that if you want to ask him). But seriously, unless you're using a 386/486 I think you should be able to use
Firefox or IE 6.x
26:
I've put it back to the version not using the new section template because of it was still going over the 5 template limit on some pages (it uses that template in the header of each page too). May as well have all of them as the non-template version rather than half and half.
1728:
I think changing to the row of colors starting with #FFFBE6 is reasonable, since they are nearly identical to the old colors and would be uncontroversial. Any other color changes besides that should probably be done in a follow up. Low hanging fruit first, imo.
1892:
I've removed it again for now. The table is an accessibility problem, the page became impossible on mobile again and the search fields didn't clear the image. If people really want it back, I'll see if I can add it in a better way tonight or on Sunday.
664:
Yesterday changed the look of the VP's page headers template. As it was sandboxed & testpaged, the notes were there. So now I'll just copy & quote my notes from there, to save them fomr the tespage. (of course, talk should be here next time).
1636:
option. In the beige-ish category, I think the existing (custom) cream and the standard cream colors are nearly indistinguishable, and therefore we could switch to the standard color without anyone noticing or caring. For overall effect, I think I
1297:@Edokter I agree with you to some extent, for experienced people such as yourself it doesn't link to anything particularly significant. But I don't think this is the case for newcomers, as I feel they may well find it helpful. Also, I feel that
303:
In any event, I've self reverted for now. Ping AzaToth if you want to try and get the archive link worked out (unless you want to investigate that yourself of course). =) And sorry for not indenting my reply, don't know how I forgot that. :(
231:
I've reverted you. In both browsers I've tried it in (Firefox 1.5 and
Internet Explorer 7.0) the shortcut box is aligned to the right with some padding around it. Which browser are you using that has the shortcut box in the wrong location?
1301:
acts as a home page for the
Village Pump, and the ability to link back to it from the other pages is preferable, from a good UI point-of-view. The only way I am aware of doing it at present is to manipulate the URL.
871:
I would guess that the existing order is based on age-of-original-creation, mixed with likely-relevance-to-searchers, mixed with raw-activity-levels, mixed with seriousness-of-ramifications-for-decisions-made-within.
61:
Many people were using this template on their user pages, but with the recent changes to this template, it now looks like s**t on said pages. Why couldn't a new template be devised rather than changing this one? —
196:
For legacy browsers some padding / spacing helps to separate the 2nd row (= 2nd parameter) from the last row (= sig and posting info), and to separate the left column (= text) from the right column (= shortcut).
848:-- I have not read arguments against. You both together have not given one single argument for the random sequence, except for 'habit'. By the way, Mrg, this 'old tab order' you cling to is one month old:
642:
1294:@Gadget850 you're right, alt text would be needed. I haven't any other proposals for pure icons, and the icon could be replaced with text if felt better. Would this be preferable?
578:
with CSS I can't judge it, just reinsert it if it was fine from your POV. Maybe say which problem you're trying to solve. Extremely long section titles in the ToC by chance? --
290:(obviously I don't know your situation so maybe you are using a 386/486 or some odd hardware setup that doesn't support FF/IE) and then the whole issue would be kind of moot. =)
1488:
I realize that this is just a personal irritation, but would anybody object to changing the background colors for this template so that they match the standard colors in
953:
the precedent exists, first. You have assumed (you wrote at least) that it is "random" - hence I offered some possible reasons as to why it is in that particular order.
1789:
I support the triple #FFFBE6 #F2ECCE #BFBAA3 "from the standard options" as well. These colors look more consistent between each other than the current live colors. —
1000:
informing them of this discussion; or a fresh discussion started there. I will make that post if you insist, but you will not like the way I phrase it; therefor I'm
1768:
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1871:
This doubles the height of the header at high browser zooms. Is everyone ok with this? I'm a little against it, but not enough to revert unilaterally. Thanks. –
573:
I tried to repair it, but there were at least four critical (wrt backwards compatibility) changes. Please try it in smaller steps if possible. The <hr /: -->
570:
is, and try your CSS magic on top of it: Modern browsers will ignore the legacy markup if there's better (real or wannabe) CSS. Old browsers never see the CSS.
1132:
What is the removal of the nav links: First discussion, End of page and New post? "keyboards have a button called "End"" isn't a good solution for tablets. --
184:. Qif magic for the shortcut is apparently unnecessary, the template is (almost) only included on Village Pump sections, and they all have WP:VPx shortcuts.
1633:
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re You both: "in order of priority, in my opinion" is not an argument, it is your preference at best (or a hobby, more likely). Also: "sequence: that at
614:
512:, or that anybody uses this template on other projects. Because I don't "see" inline PNGs (unless I click on them) or CSS colours I can only hope that
1264:
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187:
Joining the nav nox with the lead table could make sense for very long intro texts, but that's not the case, floating with the ToC is IMHO better.
801:. :) I've long preferred it, as it puts the village pumps more in order of priority, in my opinion. (When I read the VP, I have been going to the
874:
But to find out for sure, we'd have to examine the years of (scattered/relevant) talkpage archives and page-history-edit-summaries, and/or ask.
150:
1641:
prefer the lighter two options, but I'm not sure that the borders on them are dark enough (especially around the tabs). What do you think?
181:
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If we wanted to do something really radical and lighten the whole scheme, we could switch to these (same colors, shifted one column):
1405:
template. This is placeholder text which is replaced by real text when the template is used at each of the village pump pages such as
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supposed to be curious. And you should not assume that a system is "random", simply because you don't recognize a pattern behind it. –
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The archive link is certainly ugly on talk pages, because it doesn't work there. But the shortcuts ] are okay now, I'll add them to
451:
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link from this because people were using it on non-Pump pages (like user pages. Will add the category to each pump page itself. --
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Narrow your browser window to see the 2 search forms go from one line to two. On narrower screens they start off on 2 lines. --
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to your collection of ugly effects - inline PNGs are somewhat pointless for really old or text mode browsers <gd&r: -->
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page you're redirected to this page with the documentation & discussion of the template. I've created a mainly pointless
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each other, which is the main reason I reverted), then it is polite and often useful, to at least try to understand
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Not sure. My cell phone/mobile device doesn't have a button called "End" either. Support restoring the links. —
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to base the earlier sequence. Plain simple: why do you want that earlier one? Again I got not one argument. -
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Talk page templates use "coffee roll", selected in a discussion almost 20 years ago (=when MonoBook was the
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I have just updated the sandbox and added links to the main VP page and also to the (All) page. Thoughts? —
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got this right. As far as I'm concerned the right column needs no colours, and I certainly won't start any
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The new third parameter allows to specify the shortcut, same idea as for guidelines, policies, etc., see
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OK I think that's most comments, thanks for them. Decision: not to proceed without greater consensus. --
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to give you the opportunity and motivation to go make it yourself, and have the first-poster advantage.
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pages (i.e., the page WP:VP) consistently. My same logic for all pages. What could be wromg with that?
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Someone noticed! We had a noticeable impact on the world! Well, okay, on one person. But still.
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Now since you have no argument with content, I propose to set the sequence alphabetically. -
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and 2 GB isn't my RAM but the complete harddisk space. That's why I was so pissed by the
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is an entry here at WP; nothing to add. Next you 'guess' five mixes. The onus is not on
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Needs alt text for accessibility. Are we using pure icons for navigation elsewhere? --
371:. It's rejected at least now, and most people (yourself included I see) seem to agree
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page rather than using the tabs, since it stayed in the original order there.) --
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but since it's not been edited since early 2009 shouldn't the link be removed ?
253:
I've added a colon to your comment because I didn't see it... ;-) I use an old
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is an overall bad idea. =) I don't know if you've seen it, but take a look at
757:- All params / variables unchanged (no change needed at the calling VP-pages)
713:- Bordercolor of a block is the background color of the one-step-darker block
1772:
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1291:@Redrose64 moved to the sandbox as suggested. Any comments on the proposal?
77:
1492:? I don't really care which ones, just so long as it's not "unique".
1263:
Why is the proposed version stuffed into a talk page thread, and not
945:
If you want to change a years-long precedent, (to make the templates
1450:
2 search forms on one line. Will wrap to 2 lines on narrower screens
1395:
This looks odd but is deliberate; you are seeing the output of the
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align=right| {{navbar|Template:Villagepumppages}} which created:
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841:" is self-serving. Of course we should put them alphabeticalay at
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Compare those to something like this from the standard options:
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This template should match the other template. We agree on that.
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I seen no reason to overturn the precedent, beyond idon'tlikeit.
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for the colorschemes of the main page etc., there's a pattern
707:- Colored tables start with a dark colored titlebar (header)
1822:
Glad to see I'm not crazy for thinking the color changed. —
1803:
Since nobody here seems to object, I've made this change.
1051:
I've recently noticed that the FAQ section is missing from
738:- Sub-heading rows (navigation) have the medium-light color
797:
Thumbs up from me to the restoration of the old tab order
692:
Some links may lead to non-sandbox places, please be ware.
1657:
The variant "from the standard options" looks a bit like
1373:
Why does this template show text in different languages?
1608:
Template:Village pump page header/testcases#Demo 2023-08
1439:
Set the sandbox back to show the "up" and "all" menu. —
574:
worked, but IMO it's kind of ugly. For anything you did
1321:
1057:
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823:, which has years of stable precedent, in that order. –
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732:- Repositioned the link "(New) post" near similar links
643:
Knowledge:Village pump (proposals)/Persistent proposals
466:
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367:
Don't worry, you weren't the only one pissed off about
1495:
In case it's helpful, here are the colors being used:
815:
An editor reverted, and I've re-reverted, because: It
744:- The 4th row, where the title was (sic), is deleted.
1350:
1311:
1219:
1210:
Adding a home icon to the splash page. Any views? --
257:, CSS has zero effect with this monster. Stuff like
74:
What about this new image, which has no background?
1343:
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1065:, why do you believe that it is an "idle row"? --
741:- border-color rule as read above (1 step darker)
211:intro texts (= 2nd parameter), I replaced it by
927:Yes, of course we should make them match, that
919:Of course we should put them alphabeticalay at
1769:Knowledge:Manual of Style/Accessibility/Colors
687:Template talk:Village pump page header/sandbox
608:
8:
1567:or switch to blue (our predominant color):
1179:I don't edit from mobile, but I do read. --
1606:Here's a demo for suggested combinations:
763:- Background colors: the same color number
615:
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996:I propose that a notification be left at
504:Okay, that works now, I didn't know that
377:User:Locke Cole/Don't use hiddenStructure
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735:- Top row (header) has the darkest color
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1710:Knowledge:Don't worry about performance
1083:As beliefs go: by mistake. Restored. -
865:"hobby"? I'm not sure what that means.
710:- Sub-titles get the medium-dark color
7:
1165:How do you handle a talkpage then? -
1612:new parameters added to the sandbox
819:based on another sequence: that at
754:- All options & links unchanged
1685:). And #f8eaba isn't in the table
14:
1708:lot more planning. They tell us
492:Knowledge:Shortcuts to talk pages
452:Template:Village pump page header
262:I'm not yet sure how to do this,
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775:) 17:06, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
660:Changed look of the brown header
544:change). Agreed on the colors. —
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1407:Knowledge:Village pump (policy)
44:Category:Knowledge village pump
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1460:Help:Table#Side by side tables
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760:- Texts unchanged (moved only)
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1013:supposed to find the real one
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445:If you clicked on one of the
342:has simply no effect for me.
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1887:08:50, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
1683:Module:Message box/tmbox.css
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1320:Now we can see exactly what
940:to base the earlier sequence
851:. Guess who introduced it. -
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1841:03:33, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
1813:05:34, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
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1434:16:56, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
1206:Special:Permalink/636583967
880:Knowledge talk:Village pump
726:- Title is now in top row:
637:Link to persisten proposals
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1681:as background (defined in
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1601:22:44, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
1454:Method is described here:
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998:Template talk:Village pump
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876:Template talk:Village pump
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716:- Similar text go together
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1628:Thanks for making that, @
1288:Thanks for your comments.
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418:Template talk:See#Caveats
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1425:Add links "up" and (All)
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583:09:08, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
565:Explanations for Gennaro
53:07:26, 2005 May 7 (UTC)
931:a good reason/argument!
803:Knowledge:Village pump
641:The template links to
83:Village pump – {{{1}}}
1867:Recent image addition
1484:Standard color scheme
839:Template:Village pump
821:Template:Village pump
1055:. I've traced it to
970:Yes, you even wrote
207:was unrealistic for
1591:What do you think?
1322:the proposed change
936:The onus is not on
728:Village pump policy
1687:Help:Using colours
1634:"blue but lighten"
1490:Help:Using colours
1248:. Why link to it?
1047:Missing FAQ at VPT
974:possibilities. Am
685:Talk central here
481:for this purpose.
476:R to documentation
66:Stevie is the man!
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1441:GhostInTheMachine
1431:GhostInTheMachine
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1767:looks good
1470:Timeshifter
1400:Lorem ipsum
596:This box:
510:Knowledge:x
508:results in
202:Lorem Ipsum
29:violet/riga
1610:. It uses
1578:Main color
1554:Main color
1530:Main color
1506:Main color
793:Reordering
702:Help:Color
546:Locke Cole
514:Locke Cole
381:Locke Cole
306:Locke Cole
234:Locke Cole
209:VP section
143:Assistance
1369:Languages
1265:sandboxed
1234:Gadget850
1184:Gadget850
1137:Gadget850
1128:Nav links
1104:Thank you
1058:this edit
255:mozilla 3
167:SoothingR
135:Proposals
127:Technical
106:Main page
48:Netoholic
1907:contribs
1837:contribs
1791:andrybak
1691:andrybak
1679:#f8eaba
1639:slightly
1630:Andrybak
1616:andrybak
1587:#A3B1BF
1580:#CEE0F2
1573:#E6F2FF
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1508:#EEE9D9
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1345:Mrjulesd
1306:Mrjulesd
1214:Mrjulesd
1021:Quiddity
958:Quiddity
884:Quiddity
825:Quiddity
647:Cenarium
580:Omniplex
528:Omniplex
496:Omniplex
483:Omniplex
422:Omniplex
344:Omniplex
274:Omniplex
223:Omniplex
189:Omniplex
176:Shortcut
90:{{{2}}}
38:Category
1250:-- ] {{
777:Edits -
689:please.
467:history
447:archive
441:Archive
373:WP:HIDE
340:WP:HIDE
1825:python
1667:, but
1585:Border
1561:Border
1537:Border
1513:Border
1351:(talk)
1329:rose64
1312:(talk)
1276:rose64
1267:? See
1220:(talk)
1167:DePiep
1112:rose64
1085:DePiep
1070:rose64
1063:DePiep
1053:WP:VPT
1002:trying
984:DePiep
905:DePiep
853:DePiep
779:DePiep
769:DePiep
700:- See
667:DePiep
524:": -->
521:tricks
379:. =) —
369:WP:AUM
336:WP:AUM
259:align=
119:Policy
1828:coder
1672:Tmbox
1662:Tmbox
1409:. --
1246:there
947:match
924:too",
921:WP:VP
897:Hobby
843:WP:VP
680:Notes
464:links
338:war,
216:Lorem
1903:talk
1882:talk
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1795:talk
1773:Moxy
1759:talk
1751:Moxy
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1689:. —
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1253:talk
1204:See
1171:talk
1150:{{U|
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972:five
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888:talk
878:and
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799:here
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628:talk
624:Ikip
616:edit
609:talk
602:view
576:only
539:See
526:;-)
461:talk
458:edit
155:post
149:) ·
147:post
141:) ·
139:post
133:) ·
131:post
125:) ·
123:post
117:) ·
115:post
111:News
1849:;-)
1705:new
1327:Red
1274:Red
1154:}}
1110:Red
1068:Red
1017:are
1009:Am
951:why
846:too
267:Sif
165:--
32:(t)
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1899:DJ
1895:Th
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