Knowledge (XXG)

User:Kramler/Kurz is not the 25th chancellor

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under duress and was a farce in other respects as well. The Austrian parliament, the Austria Forum, and at least two influential historians, Weissensteiner and Weinzierl, omit Seyss-Inquart from their lists. Plenty of others include him: standard law school textbooks, legal historians, experts on Seyss-Inquart and his era, journalist-historians working for Austria's public broadcaster, independent foreign journalist-historians.
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was a appointed by a president who practically had a gun to his head at the time. The German army had firmly promised invasion and was four hours away from actually crossing the border. Local Nazi thugs had already taken over much of Vienna, including the chancellery. The appointment was clearly made
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was a dead head of government, and the Austrian Jeremy Irons would never have asked this particular question in the first place. Austrian children do not memorize lists of chancellors and presidents in school. Lists of chancellors and presidents printed in books or hosted on government web sites are
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Why didn't Austrians ever settle these questions and hammer out some sort of consensus over the decades? Because nobody cares. The questions aren't settled because the debate is still raging; the questions aren't settled because the debate never happened. Nobody has ever even tried to establish any
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One reason Austrians do not talk about leaders in terms of their numbers is that it never occurred to them; another reason is that they basically can't: there is no canonical numbered list of Austrian chancellors the way there is a canonical numbered list of e.g. US presidents. For one thing, there
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In 1945, do you keep counting where you left off in 1938 or do you reset? The answer to this question implies an answer to the question whether the Anschluss was an annexation or an occupation. The chain of logic here is somewhat long and has at least one weak link, but a decision to keep counting
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was a caretaker chancellor appointed by the president rather than elected by the National Council, as would have been the norm at the time. He served for a single day and was succeeded by his own predecessor – whose resignation had either been a feint, a practical joke, or a bone he felt he had to
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list of chancellors in the form of their table of contents, but the authors never claim that their selection of chancellors is the only one that's tenable. In particular, the book omits Seyss-Inquart, but it is clear from both tone and publishing context that this is a comment on Seyss-Inquart's
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Austrians do not think of Ignaz Seipel as "the 6th chancellor" the way Americans think of John Quincy Adams as "the 6th president." You cannot use "25" (or whatever) as shorthand for "Kurz" in Austria the way you can use "45" as shorthand for "Trump" in the US. The Austrian Samuel L. Jackson
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Assigning numbers to Austrian chancellors and presidents implies that these numbers play a certain role in Austrian political or historical discourse. They don't. The numbering ascribes a feature to Austrian collective thought that simply is not there.
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for example was either the 3rd chancellor or the 3rd and 8th. Or maybe he was the 3rd, 5th, and 10th, although the case can be made that he was really the 6th, 8th, and 16th. There is a total of ten distinct options.
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on the German Knowledge (XXG)? Does he appear once if his terms were consecutive and twice if they were not because that's what Americans do with their presidents and therefore what Knowledge (XXG) defaults to more
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describes him as "the 12th" Austrian head of state. These statements are obviously inspired by the US practice of numbering US presidents, but the trope makes no sense in the Austrian context.
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There are no explicit lists of Austrian chancellors or presidents in any printed book or paper I'm aware of. There is, in fact, no complete list of Austrian chancellors on
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throw to a bunch of angry nationalists, depending on which biographer you choose to believe. The Austrian parliament omits Breisky from its list of chancellors. The
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as a matter of unambiguous fact, but it's a fact that is almost never specifically mentioned by anybody, so her article does not draw inapposite attention to it.
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can be read as agreeing with the theory that Austria was coercively subjugated by military force – which is not what historians would tell you actually happened.
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political allegiance and not on his constitutional legitimacy. Significantly, the chapters are not numbered. The chancellery list is not numbered either.
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Many chancellors have served multiple terms. Sometimes not all of these terms were consecutive. Does a two-term chancellor appear once, like on the
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A handful of articles currently assign numbers to Austrian chancellors and presidents. The article on
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can end up anywhere from 4th to 9th or anywhere from 13th to 15th. The current incumbent, who is 25th
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At this point, none of the various possible numbering schemes has any solid support from
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means the list is not meant to be authoritative. Weissensteiner and Weinzierl provide an
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in the literature. Any number you assign to any chancellor or president is effectively
77: 27: 301:(11th ed.). Vienna: Manzsche Verlags- und Universitätsbuchhandlung. p. 248. 235: 154: 82: 57: 17: 96: 30:, for example, claims that Kurz is "is the 25th chancellor;" the article on 111:. Most sources include him because it's a distinction without difference. 184:, a nine-day interim chancellor but a chancellor nonetheless, which 136:
Depending on who you choose to include and how you choose to count,
326:(2nd ed.). Vienna: Böhlau StudienbĂĽcher. p. 495. 247:
Weissensteiner, Friedrich; Weinzierl, Erika, eds. (1983).
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For another thing, there is no consensus on how to count:
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There is no consensus on what anybody's number really is
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No possible numbering is supported by reliable sources
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Die Eingliederung Ă–sterreichs in das Deutsche Reich
351:(2nd ed.). Vienna: Europaverlag. p. 30. 274:Ă–sterreichisches Staatsrecht. Band 1: Grundlagen 160:There is no canonical numbered list of Austrian 376:. Vienna: Kremayr & Scheriau. p. 300. 276:(2nd ed.). Vienna: Springer. p. 88. 399:The Setting of the Pearl. Vienna under Hitler 374:Ă–sterreich I: Band 2: Abschied von Ă–sterreich 324:Ă–sterreichische und deutsche Rechtsgeschichte 8: 106: 100: 47:would never have guessed that the answer to 85:and most historians include him in theirs. 251:. Vienna: Ă–sterreichischer Bundesverlag. 157:over there mercifully omits the number.) 272:Adamovich, Ludwig; et al. (2011). 217: 299:Ă–sterreichische Verfassungsgeschichte 7: 123:? Does he appear twice, like on the 73:is no consensus on who to include: 38:Austria does not number politicians 249:Die österreichischen Bundeskanzler 24: 67: 121:List of Chancellors of Austria 1: 164:either, for similar reasons. 151:according to the other place 401:. Oxford University Press. 297:Brauneder, Wilhelm (2009). 225:Bundesregierungen seit 1918 99:because he was technically 444: 178:the chancellery web site 32:Alexander Van der Bellen 422:Bundeskanzler seit 1945 372:Portisch, Hugo (1989). 347:Botz, Gerhard (1976). 107: 101: 397:Weyr, Thomas (2005). 322:Hoke, Rudolf (1996). 182:Reinhold Mitterlehner 49:What is 10 out of 20? 89:Arthur Seyss-Inquart 95:Some sources omit 408:978-0-19-514679-0 308:978-3-214-14876-8 283:978-3-211-89396-8 206:original research 143:Ernst Streeruwitz 435: 424: 419: 413: 412: 394: 388: 387: 369: 363: 362: 344: 338: 337: 319: 313: 312: 294: 288: 287: 269: 263: 262: 244: 238: 233: 227: 222: 198:reliable sources 138:Johannes Schober 110: 104: 443: 442: 438: 437: 436: 434: 433: 432: 430: 428: 427: 420: 416: 409: 396: 395: 391: 384: 371: 370: 366: 359: 346: 345: 341: 334: 321: 320: 316: 309: 296: 295: 291: 284: 271: 270: 266: 259: 246: 245: 241: 236:Bundesregierung 234: 230: 223: 219: 214: 170: 147:according to us 125:equivalent page 70: 62:British monarch 40: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 441: 439: 426: 425: 414: 407: 389: 382: 364: 357: 339: 332: 314: 307: 289: 282: 264: 257: 239: 228: 216: 215: 213: 210: 169: 166: 155:actual article 134: 133: 129: 113: 112: 93: 86: 78:Walter Breisky 69: 66: 52:not numbered. 39: 36: 28:Sebastian Kurz 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 440: 431: 423: 418: 415: 410: 404: 400: 393: 390: 385: 383:3-453-07946-9 379: 375: 368: 365: 360: 358:3-203-50627-0 354: 350: 343: 340: 335: 333:3-205-98179-0 329: 325: 318: 315: 310: 304: 300: 293: 290: 285: 279: 275: 268: 265: 260: 258:3-215-04669-5 254: 250: 243: 240: 237: 232: 229: 226: 221: 218: 211: 209: 207: 203: 199: 194: 191: 187: 183: 179: 174: 167: 165: 163: 158: 156: 152: 148: 144: 139: 130: 126: 122: 118: 117: 116: 109: 108:Bundeskanzler 103: 102:Staatskanzler 98: 94: 90: 87: 84: 83:Austria Forum 79: 76: 75: 74: 65: 63: 59: 53: 50: 46: 37: 35: 33: 29: 19: 429: 417: 398: 392: 373: 367: 348: 342: 323: 317: 298: 292: 273: 267: 248: 242: 231: 220: 201: 195: 189: 185: 177: 175: 171: 161: 159: 135: 114: 71: 60:is the 12th 58:Elizabeth II 54: 48: 45:back in 1995 41: 25: 18:User:Kramler 97:Karl Renner 212:References 162:presidents 149:, is 29th 128:generally? 190:implicit 186:probably 105:and not 173:canon. 153:. (His 405:  380:  355:  330:  305:  280:  255:  202:exist 16:< 403:ISBN 378:ISBN 353:ISBN 328:ISBN 303:ISBN 278:ISBN 253:ISBN 208:. 411:. 386:. 361:. 336:. 311:. 286:. 261:.

Index

User:Kramler
Sebastian Kurz
Alexander Van der Bellen
back in 1995
Elizabeth II
British monarch
Walter Breisky
Austria Forum
Arthur Seyss-Inquart
Karl Renner
List of Chancellors of Austria
equivalent page
Johannes Schober
Ernst Streeruwitz
according to us
according to the other place
actual article
Reinhold Mitterlehner
reliable sources
original research
Bundesregierungen seit 1918
Bundesregierung
ISBN
3-215-04669-5
ISBN
978-3-211-89396-8
ISBN
978-3-214-14876-8
ISBN
3-205-98179-0

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