User talk:Andplus - Knowledge (XXG)

2788:

better!) One more thing... Oh yes, those blinking "broaches". I can't described them in less than 100 words... well I suppose I can try... If you've got a spire and it's octagonal, it stands, as a general rule, on a tower which is square, but the spire is octagonal, OK? So four of the sides of the spire stand on the walls of the tower, and the other four sides stand on something stone or brick that is on the inside of the tower and projects from the wall in the corners. These things can be either pendentives or squinches. If they show, and need to look nice they are generally pendentives, and if the appearance doesn't matter to anyone except the bell ringer, the clock winder and the pigeons, then they are squinches. That's on the inside. On the outside, you've got something octagonal sitting on something square. The aim of the architect is to make the two shapes blend. The easy simple thing to do is to have a pinnacle on each of the four corners. That's been done to death. The other thing, a common solution when the tower is wooden frame and covered in lead, is to have a small, pyramidical shape (sloping of course) that rises from the tower corner to lean against the flat side of the octagon that presents to the corner, making a visual bridge that is like a sort of buttresses. Sometimes octagonal stone spires have them as well. ....

1628:(to pick two) for the most part get a rigorous inspection while many other articles seem to be supported by people with similar interests regardless of their standard. Maybe that's an argument for getting involved, but most of the time I couldn't support because I don't know the subject area well enough to judge the quality of the article. For example, Red Cliffs would seem to me to be worthy of being featured, as it is well-written and interesting, but having little knowledge of Chinese history I couldn't say whether it is comprehensive or objective. Objecting is easier, but it enmeshes one in the review, as it is hardly fair to object and run. I did comment on one candidate when requested and on one Peer Review, but I find it much more time consuming than copy editing where I can dip in and out for a few minutes at a time. In short, I'm not sure the formal content review processes are for me (I could have just said that at the beginning!). 160:, though how much and where it was used isn't clear (it seems it is not much, considering McKim, Mead and White are credited with introducing it to the U.S.). I have only come across reference to them, so far, in works about Wright. Most of the other stuff I have seen so far concentrates on Ancient Rome. The one bit about use in the British Isles makes me think that use of Roman bricks may have either a)continued marginally (since the source used here goes on to say the height of the bricks gradually increased, which would be a move away from Roman style) or b)has been revived in modern times if use was phased out in the past. I suspect the answer may lie in the architectural influences of Richardson and McIntire, which I am kinda fuzzy on at the moment. 1460:

and it is one that shows itself most evident when you see the usage among those more knowledgeable in the world of wine and those more novice. That doesn't mean there is any ill to the novice, it is just simply the current state they are in. Everyone is a novice in something and everyone was always a novice in something else before. Nor does it mean that anyone who is once a novice is banished to stay a novice. I admittedly did not know the distinguish between proper Sherry and Champagne for many years till I became more familiar with the subject. It is not dismissing your argument but rather pointing out the confusion between semi-generic wines and proper wines is a common misconception among those who are not knowledgeable about the subject.

2750:

Getting the proportion right requires real expertise, as does the drafting of the profile of the capitals on top of the columns. They are perfect. I don't know whether our arrogant Mr. Greenway (who was a cocky, spiteful little man transported for forgery) had anything to do with it. I have read that on his arrival he walked up the street, saw the hospital under construction and shrieked that it would fall down and kill the patients. So I suppose that he designed the columns, whether the military engineer wanted him to, or not! I worked in said building for a while, and I'm really very attached to it. In Australia buildings of that age are so rare that its the equivalent of the Colosseum or the Aquaduct of Nimes.

2906:

benefits does it impart? Perhaps the thrill of some pushy copy-editor deconstructing your carefully chosen prose and lecturing you in the edit summary? I can't see it as a badge of quality because some very poor articles get through (standards seem to have been generally lower in the past anyway), and many seem to be left to rot once they've passed. Edification of the masses? I don't buy that either. I suppose it puts it under the nose of somebody who might be interested, but you can do that on DYK too, with a lot less effort. I'm interested to know what the driver is. Is it just the done thing once the article has reached a certain standard?

860:? I was referring to the fact that, as our erudite correspondent informs us, "he took a dump on his mother" in his early life - not an unusual occurrence for a newborn, though, even had it been, I would have preferred more encyclopedic terminology and the retention of the other information. Perhaps the edit summary was a little insensitive, but this whole notability of articles thing seems utterly pointless to me; who is going to look at an article unless they want to know about the subject? As for arguing over the inclusion of somebody with obits in the national press…grr indeed. 3026:

since the time it was promoted. By "the masses" I meant the people who read it while on the front page but, like you say, there seems to be no way of knowing how many people read it (although we do get to know how many people vandalise it). I'd always assumed the random article button was just a wrongly titled "Random US place's census data" button. Congratulations on getting a star anyway. I'm afraid that might sound a bit half-hearted after questioning the value of the system, but I wasn't questioning the effort required or the quality of the article.

2985:, but you know what I mean) and just plain pessimistic than I intended ("crap" was supposed to be whimsical, not critical). What I was trying to get at was the "random article" effect: press that a few dozen times and then pontificate on what procedures might allow the really good articles produced here to have a place to call home, if in fact that is necessary. What did you mean by "edification of the masses"? The masses being the people having an opportunity to nominate an FA, or the visitors to the front page? – 142:. Thanks for the edit summary compliment. I have really had to piece this one together, there really doesn't seem to be a definitive comprehensive source. I have come across some great stuff on Ancient Roman brick stamps which seems to have become the subject of significant scholarly work, so that will make for an interesting addition when I can parse it all and figure out what to add. If your changes haven't been able to take, I can take a pause from working on the article. Thanks for the work btw. 2125:. I just wanted to let you know that I (in my opinion) carefully reviewed it for FA this afternoon and left a lot of comments on the FAC page. I'm thinking that a lot of my comments may be superseded by your work and was wondering if you could possibly knock them off the list as and when you deal with them? I know it's a bit of an extra task but it'll make life easier when I try to work out what has and hasn't been dealt with! All the best, and keep up the great work. -- 1133:). I don't blame the wine writers for taking an easy option and capitalising throughout, though this doesn't necessarily mean they are right; should trade press usage outweigh common usage? Either way it doesn't particularly bother me, and I enjoyed the article, but my natural inclination was to lowercase Sherry throughout and without a note as to why it is capitalised I'm sure at some point it will be. It's not an uncommon problem though, the 2654: 3305:. The politics... seems to me to be an inevitability of a group this large trying to do something. That's the trade-off between a one-person blog that nobody reads and the 8th most-visited site on the internet, I guess. Sanity tends to prevail eventually. What can you do -- on Wiki and in life -- but wake up in the morning, hold your nose at the unpleasant bits, take solace in the happy parts, and vote for Giano? -- 2746:

barrels. (They brought cattle out with them, and most of the herd escaped. When they were discovered 23 years later they were several hundred of them.) The people from the First Fleet had great hopes of getting fresh supplies from England, but when the next ships arrived about two years later, they had some foul disease, typhoid, I think, and a lot of them had died, and those who hadn't were too weak to stand.

3417:. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Knowledge (XXG), but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Knowledge (XXG), in this case: ]. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. -- 2718:

rent because food would have cost a fortune. Then when the goldrushes occurred in 1851, all the workers downed their tools. Even the ships were left in port by deserting sailors. My great grandfather arrived just as it all started, and used the funds he brought from Ireland to open a biscuit factory to make cracker biscuits for the miners. Thanks again for your help!

1763:, I took care of all but one of them which I'm not sure where you're coming from with it (about differences in 360/PC in reviews). Also, I agree with what you stated about the forum/username issue, and realize there's a larger picture that should be pointed out (that BioShock's per-user activation is the exception and not the norm and should be cited as such). -- 2849:--image captions have periods" is a horrific statement in comparison to "I noticed that the image captions have periods". FAC nomination text would then have to be reviewed for consensus in what would probably be a more detailed manner, presenting a workload issue for the single editor who is able to pass them. I even filed an essay on this in my user space, 2645: 2664: 796:. I tried to address your comments. A brand new editor, an IP address, has taken interest in the article too and so I'm still trying to sort out some of his information. I notice you have the copy editor's curse -- the moment people recognize you're a good copy editor you are overwhelmed with requests. Let me add to your affliction ;) 774:. The first thing that jumped out at me is your change of the term "commandery" to "command". The former is the term used in translations considered authoritative.. many of your other edits helped the flow of the article.. I will look at them in detail and try to edit the article whenever necessaary.. tahknks again! -- 124:. I wrote them by translating the Italian equivalents. the problem is that, as you noticed, my English is not properly an... English-English, but maybe more an Italian-English. Can I ask your help in future too? Do you have any other Italian Chapel, or church etc. would you like to have here? Ciao and good work. -- 2870:

it is comprehensive or neutral. It might appear so to me, but without a background in the subject I have no idea whether it is or not. (On a side note: Have I misunderstood, or are you saying a single editor runs the whole FA system? If so, that's impressive, but I wouldn't have thought it very scalable.)

3367:

Or worse still, they read something I didn't write. I couldn't give a toss about the block. "Her actions" here are those which besmirched !!'s reputation. You see, I'm comparing them to Giano's for the purposes of indicating the lack of parity in the proposed remedies as a result of the limits of the

2944:

article to stand out from the randomness by submitting (it) to a process that gives it more attention. This wouldn't be only a selfish pursuit; surely the encyclopedia ought to somehow guide readers toward non-crap. But that overlooks the likelihood that people arrive at any article, good or not, via

2745:

The first solid building was the Government store which was guarded night and day while the convicts and marines, with wives and children starved, and the governor went on the same ration as everyone else. The children got less flour, but more meat. The meat must have been foul! It was corned beef in

2717:

The Church of England is dependent on the weekly offerings by the faithful to pay the clergies' stipend. In a rural community, the church was as poor as the people. But in the case of Sydney, the Cathedral also owned land and rental property. However, in all probability everyone was behind with their

1902:

Hi Andplus. I lost my first draft of comments here because my guitar touched my keyboard, both of which reside on my lap (my legs resting on the desk, if that helps clarify) and did something mysterious, so I have to be shorter this time. Instead of replying to your inline comments here, I'll respond

1714:

I can't see how they "detract from the quality" - they are intended to be invisible to the reader - nor can I think of an easier way for a copyeditor to identify specific areas in an article where qualify can be enhanced. Many writers watchlist their articles, so will spot comments of this sort. As

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website but unfortunately you have to pay for a subscription before accessing their archives. In the grade scheme of things it is not that big of a deal but Knowledge (XXG) seeks to spread knowledge and use the most recognizable name in the title. For anyone knowledgeable about wine, proper Sherry is

511:

No clue what a tiny coke bottle is myself, I was at the place and don't remember seeing one anyway. The whole "Orangeville edition" was what I was trying to avoid, we get complaints at DYK when one or two updates emphasizes one country let alone one village. Myself, I think Matisse was serious, he is

356:

Thanks for your good replies. Oh, you dont sound harsh, and even if you do, it is a good thing. If you pick up these problems, then others will too. I'd like to see Halotus featured some day in the (perhaps far) future, so I will get to work on this soon; if not today, then tomorrow or the day after.

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shortly after putting it up, which led me to believe that some of the tips may not be as self-explanatory as I think, and that there is probably a style guideline (imagine angels singing and a divine light illuminating THE GUIDELINE as you read that) for every issue that would trump both my tips and

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If I'd known that was there it would have saved me typing ;). The other reason I don't add a bold summary is that I don't feel qualified to do so for many articles. I'm vain enough to think I know when an article is well-written, and I can often spot gaping holes in the content, but I rarely know if

2787:

is. (if you've seen the Horry Patter movies, you would know!) Surry Hills doesn't have an "e". Dunno why not. Gothick with a "k" implies its pretty pseudo. Gothick bargeboards is definitely pseudo. Very pretty, but twee. ... But I left the "k" off it, to save confusion. (I love them! the fancier the

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bananas, a staple food for all Aussie kids. Our family hasn't had a piece of steak since the year 2001, no-one has washed their car, or their house windows with a hose for at least 6 years. The apples are OK this year, but for a few years they have all been small and specked, the sort that you would

2088:

Yes, all that, but I don't know about the brother. As for the other That is exactly and precisely and, whatismore, also the very tromp I'm trying to realise. I'm acutally dyxlestic and my commputer iss twins, so we are both jusst slightly mad.. Writing anything at all takes an hystorically long time

1724:

I often leave hidden comments, even in the articles I write, generally for points were the sources are unclear, or flatly contradict each other, and I am going to continue to do so. But, yes, it probably does make sense to add a note on the talk page of the articles in question, or the talk page of

1627:

Thanks for the invitation. I've looked at the FA nominations a few times —I think that's probably where I chanced on the Red Cliffs)— but haven't been impressed. The standard of articles promoted varies wildly, probably in direct relation to the level of scrutiny they receive. History and literature

1429:

I think you are saying that capitalising these words is a proxy for determing whether a writer is "knowledgeable about wine" or not, just as the use of the words "serviette" or "toilet" can instantly pigeonhole the speaker into a social class. Or perhaps you are saying that capitalised-Champagne is

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makers in Spain can not call their sparkling wine champagne, even with a little "c" because the name "Champagne" is trademarked much like the fact that a store in the United States can not call itself walmart (even with a little "w"). The "virtually everyone" who refer to proper Sherry and Champagne

272:

I see! I'm sorry I interpreted that as sarcasm. The context of a number of corrections, including the question in the edit summary, led me down that path I suppose. Well then—thank you! You are quite new here? I think you will be a valued editor. Your changes of wording were precisely what I figured

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According to the page: "You must have registered account with at least 150 mainspace edits before 1 November 2007 to vote. You may only vote once per candidate, and you may not vote for yourself. Votes from ineligible voters may be indented by anyone, but please don't bite, and do explain why their

2027:

I am just doing the rounds of all the pages on my watch list. I find it hard to believe the effort that people put into vandalism! But "The Great Escape" is on TV and my son is watching it. The music is terribly distracting. They keep singing Christmas Carols flat, monotonous and with an unpleasant

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Yes, there are a couple of reasons. First of all, no one is ever going to read a hidden comment (unless they happen to read articles in edit mode), so the changes you suggested will likely never happen. Second, I've found hidden comments all over that article, and they aren't really necessary... in

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I can agree to leave things be and move on but I see some ill will that I would like to clear up. I fret that you may be reading some insult or negativity into the use of "novice" when there is none. As I have repeatedly said, it is not willful ignorance, it is just a lack of knowledge. That is all

1344:

As it has shown before in its history, the OED is not infallible and sometimes it will promote the common misconception rather than the common truth. As I said before, it not willful ignorance that cause people to mis-capitalized proper Champagne and Sherry, it is just simply lack of knowledge that

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When I made the comment I was meaning to suggest you add a reference or note to the article to support the capitalisation, as otherwise it will undoubtedly be lowercased by some passing editor. I'm not sure the Champagne case (even if correct) is comparable, as Champagne is the name in its "native"

922:

For my money, Javan Rhinoceros works best in this article as it allows you to differentiate between the species and a rhino that happens to be in Java. With all the species and subspecies and locations drifting around in the article it helps to give a quick visual clue as to what you are discussing

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On an off-site mailing list? How poetic. I see the supporters of Durova pick out exactly the same phrase in both fora and make the same defence. I do wish people wouldn't comment if they aren't going to read. I'm not asking for Durova to punished, I'm asking for equivalent responses for equivalent

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I suppose the little star gives the reader who has chanced on the article some indication that it has been thought to be among the best (if they know what the star represents), but the article could have been promoted in the lax days of whenever the FA system started and/or been entirely rewritten

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Yes, that's what I thought when I first got here, but it's fairly uncommon for FACs to get a detailed content appraisal during the nomination (I'm only talking about the type of article that has a meaningful base of secondary sources). There just aren't enough "experts" for that. Oh, and yes, one

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Hi, sorry for whatever. Apart from whatever, do you happen to know anything about the lectures given in honor of Hurwicz, one named for him? And about the criterion (1951 or so) used in decision making? More about his students? I'd like to see them added. About main page space, yes it is important

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I thought he was in charge of Today's Featured Article, I didn't realise his fiefdom extended to encompass the whole FA business. Maybe I'm missing something, but I really don't see the appeal of Featured Article status. You line your hard work up to be selected for a day of vandalism. What other

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One of the things that one has to wonder at, and the reason for the narrative, is the time frame of everything. When Blacket sent drawings to Cambridge and Oxford, it was at least 6 months before he got their response. I seem to remember that the model has two windows in the North Transept, which

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Thanks for a great job. It is interesting to see the response of someone who doesn't know the architectural jargon. I have sorted out a few of the little problems like Decorated/decorated. Yes, it's a style so I have changed it to Decorated Gothic and the same with Perpendicular Gothic. Explained

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You seem to be doing a solid job cleaning up articles I have just "launched". First thing is "thanks". Another is ... I have a couple more "en route". If you fancy helping then I'll put them under joint authorship when they goto Did you know? If you are too busy elsewhere then thanks again anyway

1687:

The only point above that makes any sense is to leave a note on the talk page (I don't find I have time to do that), and even that isn't a reason to remove the comments. I particularly like "no one is ever going to read a hidden comment…I've found hidden comments all over that article/…they just

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Apparently I was mistaken about you being an admin. I took for granted that assumption based on the level headedness of your comments in other forums and the generally positive way you carry yourself. (Though I could honestly comment now on any future RFA "Amazed not an admin already" without it

885:

I third your grrrs. I looked into SSP (it was added by the IP), it is indeed Subspecies Survival Plan coordinator, which isn't really relevant for the article on Billy. As for pictures of the prolific Bill, there were some pictures in the news archives but alas still copyrighted. A tremendous

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article). A third reason is that you're adding unnecessary bytes to the page, but that's just being pedantic. ;) If you have any concerns like the ones you've added, I'd suggest leaving a note on the talk page rather than a hidden comment (see reason #1); sorry for not suggesting that before, I

1345:

those who commonly work and deal with the world of wine have. After looking online for a reference that spells out clearly "Proper Sherry should be capitalized" all I found was the knowledge was taken for granted with wine-knowledgeable writers capitalizing it and more novice writer not. On the

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The first decent public building to go up was in 1811, the hospital, and it is an elegant Georgian design, colonial military style but its finer points are really very fine indeed. The columns of the verandah have what is know as "entasis", they are tapered and swell slightly below the middle.

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Got those two points you noted, but this is the comment that is still in there that I don't know what you're getting at in the Reception section: "IGN noted that both the controls and graphics of the Xbox 360 version are inferior to those of the PC version, in that switching between weapons or

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I surmise that you are an admin and I can tell you there are many things about the duties and tools of an admin that I do not know and if I laid forth a misconception, you would be quite right and reasonable in clearing up my misconception and noting that it is common mistake from a person not

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feel what you're saying about both style guidelines and site politics. I've found that style guidelines are easy enough to ignore. The people that care about them fix things up eventually and in the meanwhile nobody is hurt by a spaced em-dash — yeah, the spaced em-dash is, for some reason,

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By the way, Andplus, a nitpicketty person like yourself could get very discriminating at architectural appreciation, if you were to put your mind to it. You would have to learn a range of different "vocabularies", and I don't just mean the jargon, I mean the visual expression of the buildings

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I try to avoid the featured article system as much as possible for the reasons I explained to Ling.Nut above, but when asked to comment I will. I don't think my position needs prefacing with a summary however, since I believe my opinions are made fairly clear. Is it a breach of a policy or a

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About the models and flaps. There is only one model, the St. Andrew's one, and it's not the moodel that had flaps. I've used the word "design" in place of architectural drawings so I've fixed that in at least one instance. The words are often interchangeable, in the sense of "the concept".

1080:

As you point out, French champagne houses are protected (at least within the EU), whether the word is capitalised or not. Using "champagne" is not really like using the wrong "its"/"it's" - rather, insisting that "champagne" must be capitalised is like insisting that split infinitives are

205:. What with being busy with an ongoing ArbCom case I didn't have time to make sure all the wording matched, even if the basic meaning behind the wording is the same. I'll have a look in the next couple of hours anyway. Thanks for pointing out the discrepency and your kind words anyway. 1041:(well, clearly they don't write much about the latter). But in these cases, the territorial designation is being used as an adjective; that is certainly not the case with sherry (or port), for example. And it seems a bit odd to insist that the sparking wine must be capitalised. -- 1024:- capital). I guess "proper" sources - such as books by an established wine writer - use proper nouns, hmm? Quite what the EU protection has to do with it is beyond me. The EU may be able to prohibit imperial weights and measures, but it can't tell us how to capitalise our words. 1504:. Interestingly, Stilton and Cheddar aren't protected this way, but the conventional assumption that they are is enough that you see them capitalised just about everywhere. So it's the trademarking of a geographical name which, by law, permits the proper-nouning of the brand. -- 804:. If you enjoy animal articles, I'd deeply appreciate an extra set of eyes to help me improve the article. It's a long term project and I intend to continue improving the articles even after FAC, so no rush. And if you don't like rhinos don't even worry about it. Cheers! -- 587:

Andplus, sorry to ping again but I missed noticing something, before replying, you had an edit comment on "Len". I don't mean that more comments aren't welcome, only mean to say I misread the context and misunderstood what was on the DYK page and went off looking for reasons.

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Glad it's not just me. Most of the articles I work on are actively monitored and the one in question is a featured candidate, so if the authors aren't watching they have only themselves to blame (excepting the case where some helpful person removes the comments).

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image is already a replacement for one in which he was obviously looking off the page (see article talk page), and I don't find it obvious here that he is looking to the right, certainly not enough to be aesthetically unappealing. The current pose, a

1857:, which in principle is to be nominated for FAC sometime? It's already been reviewed and ce'd by Awadewit. Who is it, though, that can be certain to aver about the extent to which ungainly phraseology may still, despite my best efforts, be extant? – 448:

L.Y.O.N.E.L. T.H.E. S.E.C.O.N.D. Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache does indeed deserve an article - he emigrated to New Zealand, where he fathered 17 children; hence the redlink. Most of the other family members are not so remarkable - the eldest,

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I admire your attitude, but I'm finding the whole thing demoralising. I have a low boredom threshold and I'm getting in a bit of a routine here (probably why I drifted into arguing about stuff yesterday), so I'm going to cut back on contributing.

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the product name isn't generic, it's proper. Just like Camembert, Philadelphia and Gorgonzola cheese, or Parma ham and Parmesan cheese (both from Parma), Sherry comes from a region of that name – actually, a corruption of Xerez, but protected as

2018:

Yeah! "varied considerabably" is better. So nice to deal with someone knows that alliteration matters! definitely not drastic! The eyes is drastic, but not the acorns.... then again .... they are highly significant acorns! The Pope was a della

923:((I don't want to spark off another capitalization war on my talk page though). Most importantly though is that the use be consistent; you had a few lowercased when I went through the article, probably as the result of switching back and forth. 1430:

a term of art amongst wine cognoscenti, which the hoi polloi cannot be expected to use properly? It is certainly convenient for you to be able to dismiss someone who disagrees with you as being insufficiently knowledegeable or a "novice". --

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I'm having trouble concentrating on it today: people keep distracting me with work. Not really sure how (or whether) I should strike comments in the FAC page, but I've copied them here, and marked off those I'm vain enough to think I've dealt

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Based on my counting, you hit the 150 edit mark somewhere around October 4th. (I counted only article edits, it may have been sooner if the people doing the scrutineering also count article talk pages.) Thus, you should be eligible to vote.

3262:-- a nifty summary of copy editing mistakes that good writers (who assume they are therefore good copy editors) routinely make. Especially that fifth point. I don't think it's a worthless effort to maintain a list like that somewhere. -- 2940:. If it's "featured", it's apparently "wikipedia's best work" and gets a link on the featured page. With two million articles that follow a power law distribution of crappiness/pointlessness, it seems that one would like to find a way for 818:). You seem to have answered most of my queries on Billy, although I'd still like to know what SSP stands for. I was surprised there wasn't a photo of Billy himself anywhere. Grace and the raccoon get everywhere but no sign of the hippo. 2830:

guideline (I'm constantly amazed at the number of these things floating around)? If so, I'll just stay away completely, as I'm unimpressed by the whole process (although not the efforts of some of the participants, yourself included).

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means it was probably made during that 6 month period. I'm fairly certain that the new design for the facade post-dates the Oxbridge communication. The finished facade is a much more inspiring composition than that on the model.

2162:"...Morris became a batsman during his teens.." well, he must have been a batsman before that time unless every game he played as a bowler they never got that far down the order! I know what you mean, but perhaps you could expand. 1218:

Not to mention sources that say things like "the champagne of cricket", "champagne-bottle", "champagne-cocktail", "champagne-cork", "champagne-cup", "champagne-dinner", "champagne-glass", "champagne-supper", "champagne-tweezers"

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I had thought of writing to Andplus with just the opposite perspective... I'd like to see no bolded voting on FAC... just commentary. It maintains the good faith of people who have put a lot of work into articles. For example,

549:

Thanks again. Not to worry about the DYK, I seem to get enough of those anyway... The inline citation thing is understanndable, I think, but there's obviously nothing one can do if one's translating from another wikipedia...

1209:"Champain", then 1697 "Liquors fine, Rasberry Wine..and Shampine", 1718 "young Fellows, who drink Champagne". Four of the three most recent citations, 1795, 1814 and 1875 say "champagne" (two in connextion with "claret"). 442: 3068:

Thank you, and no, it doesn't sound half-hearted: all I seem to do lately (anywhere) is "question the value of systems", and it's not a recipe for inner peace. Unfortunately, a variety of recent Knowledge (XXG) events

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grew that they recognised? Mid summer and a stretch of several days over the century. The convict women, who were vastly outnumbered by the men, were all taken ashore four days after the men and were raped all night.

1117:. With branding comes the added complication of differentiating between the branded product and the thing itself, but we have many brand names that have come to be lowercased to mean generic items of their type ( 908:(←)Saw the comment below about capitalization. What do you think on these animals? Should it be Javan rhinoceros or Javan Rhinoceros. I go back and forth on which makes more sense/introduces less ambiguity. -- 3452:. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose 1058:

with lower case are simply people who are just not knowledgeable about the distinction. It is sort of like the folks who mix up using "its" and "it's". Its not deliberate ignorance but it is still incorrect.

1968:

I don't know who you are, but I love you! You can come and edit the articles that I write any time you like! Can I give you a list? Next time I put something up as a featured article I want you in on it!

501:, any input there would be appreciated. Also, I wondered if you thought I should split up the five article DYK hook or just drop a few of the articles from the suggestions page altogether on that topic. 2708:

I was a little surprised at your question as to how the drought affected funding!!! OMG! We are no longer a 90% rural community, but even so, the last seven years drought has meant that there have been

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any case they just detract from the quality (I'm not saying they shouldn't be used at all, but sparingly, and not by one individual, but by consensus on the talk page: such as the one at the top of the

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is better? It is closer to what the source is driving at--it's recast now as the incubus, not literally Fuseli, seeking to forestall a marriage. Chronology isn't really the issue, just symbolic intent.

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what the string-course is. It's a band of decorative moulding. "Ornament" is the correct architectural term and can be discrete, rather than "ornametation" which is descriptive and definitely OTT!

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plasmids is easier using the PC's mouse than the radial menu in the Xbox 360 version

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Any volunteers for the spoken word version? There are far more barbarous insults to the language to be dealt with. Look at the blurb for today's FA for example (I can't bear to look again).

801: 753: 2254:- Seems pretty clear to me, and all I know about cricket come pretty much from copy-editing The Governor General (and you can see how much I knew then by the fact I actually copy-edited 1874:

Any bad writing what was in it, it seems to be re writted over before that I got there mostly. I'd like to see a poem on the main page: the vandals would have to find a rhyme for poop.

450: 197:), although I did source it. The blanket and dirty protest articles were ones I expanded as I figured if they were going to be linked from the main page they needed to look better than 1094:

I wonder - do really intend to imply that using "champagne" is either being wilfully ignorant, or just plain accidental ignorance?). Does the OED consider it to be a proper noun? --

474:

Oh, sorry - I thought I had added the link to LYONEL THE SECOND as a reminder to write an article, but I see you added it. I hope someone does not snaffle it before I get back to it.

1641:. Anyhow, I do appreciate yur help with Red Cliffs, and was impressed by your edits. Hope to see you around (doing whatever it is you'l be doing) for a long time to come... Cheers!-- 251:

Thank you for editing the above. Apparently I ought to read the article after I add or rearrange content—that was rather embarrassing. What does your possibly sarcastic edit comment

2936:

I don't know. This is the first one I've submitted. What does anyone get out of researching and writing a long article here? You have no way of knowing if it's actually being read

668:"Psychological warfare" just meant broadcasting propaganda to the enemy. He spoke German and was in charge of broadcasts in German at the BBC, so I guess it made some sense. See 479:

Thanks for all of your edits - it is nice to see someone polishing up some of my lacklustre prose. Don't worry about the style of references - that is what wikignomes are for. --

961:

For reference you can look at a book from any established wine writer if you like. Sherry in the EU protected context of the wine from the Jerez region is a proper noun-much like

2334:- The height originally formed an awkward segue into his batting style. I moved it there but was interrupted before I finished, leaving him imposingly short. Probably fixed now. 1825:

Ok, I see what you mean, and also removed that statement about the bronze Atlas (as I don't recall anything like that, so I'm sure its pretty much a speculation statement). --

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nominees and a dearth of (competent) reviewers". I'd like to invite you to consider getting involved in the various aspects of the Content Review Process on Knowledge (XXG):

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No source is unimpeachable. The OED has the virtue, as I alluded above, of reporting English as she is spoke and written, rather than prescribing how it ought to be written.

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usage of "sherry" and "champagne" are for similar style wines made in other areas and those are always lowercase to distinguish them. Hope that clears things up for you.

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common sense. And I failed to copy-edit it! Somehow I've become entirely too involved in examining the site politics today, and it hasn't been an uplifting experience.

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No, but if you want to pay me cash or cheque will be more than acceptable ;). I'll have a run through Edmund when I finish looking through Arthur Morris for Blnguyen.

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I semi-coloned them, but they could be reworked to flow better if his reliability as a catcher is why he was seldom used as bowler, or if somebody better kept him out

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OK, if you see anything that is out of place and have time to fix it that is great. I or somebody might have some luck, maybe in Web search, we'll see. Best wishes. -

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I didn't realise you were still editing when I ran through it, got an edit conflict when I tried to save, and missed that addition. Fixed it. Sorry for the mix up.

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not normally send to market, but that has been all that there was available at an affordable price. ....Would you believe that I had a cucumber on time-payment? ;)

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Conforming to typographical conventions is work for typesetters, machines, or juniors, as far as I'm concerned ;P The world was simpler when we used pen and paper.

2380:"Morris' first class cricket career was interrupted by the Second World War, enlisting in the Australian Imperial Forces in 1941. " - "..., with him enlisting..."? 3385:

Andplus, why do I have the funny feeling you're not returning? You went through the whole wikipedia editor cycle in a couple of months, I guess. Hope I'm wrong. –

2307:- I think foot is in common usage too, though feet won't offend. I'll change it next time I go in. Why use the convert template? It's not likely to change is it? 1266:, a town in Andalusia, near Cadiz); in modern use, extended to a class of Spanish fortified white wines of similar character, and (usually with prefixed word, as 2173:- DONE down to where I am. I changed it for consistency. I never realized there was such a furore over that until World War III/The Third World War broke out in 944:(also see my invite below; it's easy to lose track of threads.. don't rely on the orange Notice band; check the hist for everything after your last comment). -- 724:

Thx for offer above and Another thx for Simon Sainsbury - others may fair better, but whether he gave money directly or told a trust to do it, is a fine line.

2362:"Morris took two wickets in Tests, one of them Bedser in 1953. He was rarely used as a bowler and was a reliable catcher." these could be flowed together. 1180:

The name of a province of eastern France; hence, a well-known wine of different varieties, white and red, and still or sparkling, made in this district.

941: 1223:?), "champagne-coloured", "champagneless", and "champagne gas" (CO2), and "champagne socialism", but "Champagne Charlie", and the colour "champagne". 2344:"Morris was especially noted for his cover driving, square cutting and on-driving. Morris had a reputation..." 2 x Morris in a row, reads stilted. 1206: 715:

I'm only editing when I have a few minutes to fill, so don't rely on me, but I'll certainly copy edit any you want to list. Just drop me a note.

566:(as I recall I replied on that subject a couple of times) but not so important as to ignore what are gaps in the article. Thanks for your note. - 79: 3477: 1759:

I appreciate the hidden comments - lacking a better word processing system, they pinpoint exactly where the problems are in the article.

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Lyulph Ydwallo Odin Nestor Egbert Lyonel Toedmag Hugh Erchenwyne Saxon Esa Cromwell Orma Nevill Dysart Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache

2185:"on the first assignment to South Africa..." whose, his or Australia's? - wasn't sure about that either, left a note in an HTML comment 1991: 291:

Re your edit to the above (which seems to imply some biographical knowledge of Fuseli, or just a close article reading!), do you think

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Hi. This is just to let you know I have reposted your excellent post onto the WikiEN-l mailing list (with attribution of course). See

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talk page, I posted an example from one of the world most respected wine magazine and I can recommend for any a litany of books by

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actions and a decision that doesn't encourage off-site attacks and plots, and doesn't penalize those who speak up against them.

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but I dont' sleep much. II reeeally need a copy edittor! Do you, Andplus, write for a living? Would you like to take a look att

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Gosh, that's observant, it was only there for a couple of hours at most. I had a run in over national varieties of English at

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one of the editors of the article who has added a substantial amount of its content, point out that the comments are there.--

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noticed those hidden comments, isn't it? But perhaps they did not elicit the intended clarification of the points at issue...

38: 2524:"He was unable to maintain his peak form in his later career." - I think this is going to apply to every sportsman, isn't it? 1601:. The latter is relatively better supplied with reviewers; the first two may be more in need of your help. I suggest reading 1549:

Much better. The definition there leaves a little to be desired, but the link should withstand the efforts of the repairers.

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on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out

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have got me questioning this system again. Once my ethics neuron starts tingling, my ability to continue is jeopardized.

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search engine, so way-finding is perhaps overrated. All your points are valid. When you figure it out, let me know... –

2419:"The selectors persisted..." hmm, not sure. I know what you mean but again not sure this is the best way of putting it. 1483: 1479:

being cliche :P) But still the analogy can play itself well in any subject you wish to include, like English barons. :)

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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to

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Give the source in the infobox some text (e.g. Cricinfo) rather then empty external link. - not my department, guv'nor.

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It's a wine region thing, the capitalisation. As per "a fine Rioja" or a "full-bodied Beaujolais", wherever there is a

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Hi Andplus, I saw your 2p at the Ulysses FAC, but its unclear whether you were supporting or just commenting. Thanks.

2705:

On idiomatic thing- all those "first settlers" were "transported", many of them in chains, hence my use of the word.

669: 2218:"Morris had amassed nine Test centuries and averaged over 65..." in total or on that SA tour? - don't know about that 1004:- does anyone still call them "port wine" and "madeira wine"?) - all in lower case - meaning the sparkling wine from 2789: 2676: 2442: 2315: 2130: 1526: 1463:

knowledgeable about adminship. I would not take your words as an insult and I hope you would not take mine as well.

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I'll copy the rest over here as I get to them, but probably won't be able to do anything much until Monday now.--

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sense of urgency, but perfectly together which is what you would expect from their military disciplin I suppose!

207: 102:; my grammar was rather erratic. All of your contributions over the last few days have improved Knowledge (XXG). 2150:"...Invincibles which toured England ..." - reads strangely to my English mind - Invincibles who toured England? 1976: 1326: 1322: 33: 22: 1510: 539:

article. I can't believe how sloppily I must have typed that one up. Perhaps I was drunk? In any case, thanks!

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I am digging. Right now I can definitely say there were two earlier American architects who used Roman bricks,

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Replaced by ultimately terminal, but think the article has structural issues that mean that should be replaced

1793:." I'm not sure what you mean by that statement as this is the first time the two platforms were compared. -- 1113:

language, whereas Sherry is not; in my mind the Sherry case is perhaps closer to an argument for capitalising

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Thanks for the edits to the painting. Would you be interested in editing one of my furthest-along articles,

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As per Scartol above, the end of the sentence goes awry. Perhaps "...on an undefeated tour of England...?"

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in 1854. The most recent citations use it at the beginning of a sentence, so iot is difficult to tell. --

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Dear sir, I'm wondering if this Buddhist monk ever interested you? I was looking for a copyeditor. Thanks,

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I've been doing some checking, and the current wording in the hunger strike article predates my editing (

73: 3391: 3115: 2991: 2951: 2895: 2859: 2672: 2609: 2568: 2530:"relationships:Morris" - consider semi colon or em-dash or something other than no space colon no space. 2487: 2438: 2402: 2311: 2278: 2235: 2202: 2126: 1951: 1924: 1889: 1863: 1370: 648: 617: 322: 302: 279: 261: 3147:

Hi. I wondered why you removed the template that I added. Your edit summary made no reference to it. --

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Where is the other article about the Egyptian alchemist? There is only something on a band, and a god.

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known for outrageous complaints at DYK, the last one was that articles were too long. Apparently,

3310: 3267: 2797: 2771: 2755: 2723: 1563: 1538: 29:. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: 2766:

themselves. The various parts all talk to each other in different ways, depending on the style.

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The picture that you painted was quite correct. Can you imagine? Shipped out to a country where

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Thank you for doing so. Perhaps when it is nominated in FAC, you could pop over and comment... –

1602: 3410: 3206: 3181: 3152: 2067: 1975:.... Hmmmm! That's how one of the books that I quoted refers to it, but it might appear under 1614: 1346: 1034: 815: 117: 3457: 3449: 3302: 2434: 1638: 3345: 3230: 2299: 2255: 2168: 1486: 1471: 1389: 1299: 1134: 1065: 989: 980: 962: 887: 797: 748: 736: 725: 706: 536: 457:, which he gave to the National Trust in 1948; the other brother who died in the Great War, 103: 3460:, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The 3453: 1587: 1582: 988:

I think this is a prescriptivist/descriptivist dichotomy. Virtually everyone writes about

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Make sure all averages are given with same level of precision. I'll leave that to Blnguyen

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Double check all en-dashes are present (I saw a 2-0 in Invincibles tour section). No idea

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I may be wrong but I think the convert template gives you non-breaking spaces for free.

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No, I don't think you read it wrong. I didn't write it right. :) Thanks for the input. –

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Are you interested in thinking about any more cirkcet articles sir? I need a copyedit.

1854: 1378: 857: 551: 540: 2653: 3306: 3263: 3141: 2793: 2767: 2751: 2719: 2122: 2094: 2029: 2006: 1935: 1669: 1663: 1642: 1618: 1610: 1606: 1559: 1534: 1278:) to wines made elsewhere in imitation of Spanish sherry. Also, a wine of this kind. 945: 909: 891: 805: 775: 662: 245: 125: 85: 43: 2518:"...wicket expected to take spin." - bit jargony, need to open it up to non-experts. 3369: 3359: 3321: 3283: 3241: 3202: 3177: 3163: 3148: 3027: 2907: 2886: 2871: 2831: 2625: 2452: 2103: 2056: 2046: 1912: 1875: 1739: 1729: 1689: 1629: 1550: 1443: 1434: 1399: 1354: 1350: 1330: 1313: 1138: 1098: 1045: 1001: 970: 924: 861: 848: 828: 819: 716: 690: 680: 483: 465: 422: 402: 395: 391: 236: 99: 2547:

I think so too, but inserting it as break mid-story doesn't seem the best option

2356:"...his average rose to 57.42, and to 61 in 46 first class innings." - confusing. 1382:

more recognizable capitalized while "sherry" would indicate a generic-knock off.

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article which JayHenry asked about just above struggled with capitalisation too.

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mean? That the chaise lounge should be referred to by one name for consistency? –

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and some other databases for any information I can too, so that may reveal more.

3226: 2295:"five foot nine inches" - as a minimum it's five feet, but it's best to use the 1480: 1465: 1383: 1059: 974: 139: 459:

Leo Quintus Tollemache-Tollemache de Orellana Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache

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Either subspecies, or species survival plan, I think. Not notable... grr. --

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One or two little things... I found a nice link that explains exactly what a

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Okay, thanks so far, that's great. By all means strike them out, or use the

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Agreed. And we can always improve the definition if we feel so inclined. :)

1366: 1013: 997: 454: 2252:"Morris was twice dropped..."...from the team as opposed to in the field?! 1581:

Hello again, Andplus. I was just saying on my talk, "...there's a glut of

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DONE In fact, should his name in the lead have the MBE after it? Probably

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and the essays at its bottom.. and ask for help from "old hands" such as

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is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Knowledge (XXG)

2509: 2043: 1726: 1431: 1310: 1303:), "sherry, sherry, sherry". It also has "Some rare old sherry" from 1095: 1042: 1021: 845: 689:

Of course. If I'd thought about for a second it would have been clear.

677: 480: 462: 233: 461:, may also justify an article - he changed his name by deed poll! -- 1122: 1114: 1017: 993: 3481: 3426: 3396: 3372: 3362: 3351: 3329: 3314: 3291: 3271: 3249: 3234: 3210: 3185: 3171: 3156: 3120: 3035: 2996: 2956: 2915: 2900: 2879: 2864: 2839: 2823: 2801: 2775: 2759: 2727: 2680: 2633: 2616: 2575: 2494: 2460: 2446: 2409: 2319: 2285: 2242: 2209: 2134: 2106: 2097: 2075: 2059: 2049: 2032: 2009: 1958: 1929: 1894: 1878: 1868: 1832: 1800: 1770: 1742: 1732: 1692: 1681: 1645: 1632: 1621: 1568: 1553: 1543: 1512: 1488: 1473: 1446: 1437: 1402: 1391: 1333: 1316: 1141: 1101: 1067: 1048: 982: 948: 927: 912: 894: 864: 851: 831: 822: 808: 778: 760: 728: 719: 709: 693: 683: 655: 624: 592: 582: 570: 554: 543: 524: 505: 486: 468: 435: 415: 382: 367: 350: 327: 307: 284: 266: 239: 222: 181: 164: 146: 128: 106: 88: 756:, as the WP:DINO editors usually work quickly on outside concerns. 2592:

Ref needs a "pp" for the pages field. I'll leave that to Blnguyen

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What do you write when you are not editting other people's stuff?

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Errm, I was wondering if you were intested in things related to

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Scorelines etc should be separated by en-dash, not hyphen, per

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Thanks! - I was rather spoilt for choice, but that stood out!

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Since when does being 5ft 9 give you an "imposing appearance"?

1245: 1163: 76:, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place 2005:...and hear is you're every frist coppy etidors' barn stare 1029:

Arguing against myself, people do write about wine from the

2544:

Agree with Scartol, the captaincy section seems misplaced.

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Hmm. The above probably sounds more holier-than-thou (not

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Hey Andplus, I'm watching you do some good copyediting on

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OK cool. If you're into copy editing, perhaps you'll like

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before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! -

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Yeah, he andplusalso his brother (who?) are both great.

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Taken a quick fly through. A few queries here and there.

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I'll also add more information about Brittanicus etc. --

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For your copyediting, Andplus (or is that "&+"?). --

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Thanks for taking the time to find that out, most kind.

2368:"his parents had split." - split up or left? Separated? 3260: 1667:

realize that that would have been much more helpful. ·

292: 202: 198: 195: 2350:"first class" or "first-class" - consistency required. 1529:, what do you think about linking to wiktionary for " 1262:

Originally, the still white wine made near Xeres (now

425:. Is it not possible that he is just little known? -- 752:, and would like it if you would add comments to the 535:

Hi there. Thanks for you heroic copy editing on the

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Hi, I have made replies to all of your concerns. --

253:

bed and sofa actually the same chaise longue? Lovely

2508:"54*" I know what this means but I suggest you use 2055:Most kind (though I won't pass on the compliment). 890:. I'll review your comments there this evening. -- 3440:You appear to be eligible to vote in the current 497:Hello. I made a post about tiny Coke bottles at 405:redirects to the page on the god, currently. -- 3176:Ah. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. -- 2792:Thanks once again for all your generous help! 2385:Link first use of Sheffield Shield. - not done 1906:Regarding Fred looking off the page: oh dear. 1205:) "sparkling Champaigne", then 1688 (poems by 2066:Cheeky git. And what a busy bee you've been. 1577:Invitation to contribute to Content Review... 942:Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Tree of life 940:Strongly suggest you ask this question here: 8: 1903:and/or remove them in the article itself. 138:Sorry if I messed up some of your edits on 1398:I get the feeling this could run and run. 1199:, says "brisk Campaign ", then 1676 (from 1008:(capital), the fortified wine from around 814:I'll take a look (it's either that or the 64:I hope you enjoy editing here and being a 2093:(yes, he's only got one t, poor fellow!) 1988: 1525:Instead of linking to a disambig page in 1125:spring to mind for the UK and the US has 2171:instead of the US sequel version please! 856:Are you referring to my edit summary on 2938:page visit counters should be turned on 1207:George Villiers, 2nd Duke of Buckingham 451:Lyonel Felix Carteret Eugene Tollemache 372:I might do just that sometime soon. -- 2780:Oh you have done such a fantastic job! 1688:detract from the quality". Priceless. 1668: 1297:), "Some Shirry", and then 1614 (from 7: 1016:(and the fortified wine from around 792:, thanks for taking an interest in 173:I should mention, I will be mining 34:The five pillars of Knowledge (XXG) 3340:Your post on WT:RFAr/Durova et al. 3279:A Vindication of the Rights of Men 25:to Knowledge (XXG)! Thank you for 14: 3466:review the candidates' statements 1918:Thanks again for your comments. – 1715:for adding "unnecessary bytes"... 1617:etc. Cheers and Happy Editing! -- 1377:. I can also direct users to the 1291:The first citation is 1608 (from 610: 520:. :) Thanks for the perspective. 2671:icons... Good work so far. -- 2662: 2652: 2643: 2374:"under 16" - usually hyphenated. 1989: 969:is also a proper noun while the 499:Talk:Ambler's Texaco Gas Station 3402:NowCommons: File:Horseferry.jpg 3387: 3111: 2987: 2947: 2891: 2855: 1964:That blooming blinking ceiling! 1920: 1885: 1859: 1497:Protected designation of origin 1411:Sorry, Andplus. My last reply. 1193:The first citation, 1664 (from 618: 318: 298: 275: 257: 3472:. For the Election committee, 3442:Arbitration Committee election 3433:ArbCom elections are now open! 2851:user:outriggr/stuff#FAC vision 1020:, and the fortified wine from 746:I appreciate your revision of 674:Psychological Warfare Division 89:09:35, 28 September 2007 (UTC) 1: 3482:13:38, 24 November 2015 (UTC) 3373:18:01, 30 November 2007 (UTC) 3363:16:57, 30 November 2007 (UTC) 3352:16:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC) 3330:12:14, 30 November 2007 (UTC) 3315:01:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC) 3292:23:53, 29 November 2007 (UTC) 3272:23:28, 29 November 2007 (UTC) 3250:15:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC) 3235:15:31, 29 November 2007 (UTC) 3211:12:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC) 3186:13:24, 25 November 2007 (UTC) 3172:13:09, 23 November 2007 (UTC) 3157:13:01, 23 November 2007 (UTC) 3121:00:48, 27 November 2007 (UTC) 3036:11:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC) 2997:03:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC) 2957:01:58, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 2916:01:16, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 2901:00:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC) 2880:10:35, 23 November 2007 (UTC) 2865:01:35, 23 November 2007 (UTC) 2840:10:45, 22 November 2007 (UTC) 2824:08:02, 22 November 2007 (UTC) 2802:14:43, 20 November 2007 (UTC) 2790:What boring nonsense this is! 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Parker, Jr. 794:Billy the pygmy hippo 784:Billy the pygmy hippo 3409:is now available on 1973:Fictive architecture 1264:Jerez de la Frontera 772:Battle of Red Cliffs 209:One Night In Hackney 21:Hello, Andplus, and 3450:arbitration process 3407:File:Horseferry.jpg 3105:More to the point, 1325:(or should that be 1150:OK - the OED says " 636:Hue Vesak shootings 429:Anonymous Dissident 409:Anonymous Dissident 376:Anonymous Dissident 361:Anonymous Dissident 344:Anonymous Dissident 3462:arbitration policy 2477:All done I think, 432: 412: 379: 364: 347: 39:How to edit a page 27:your contributions 3411:Wikimedia Commons 3071: 2939: 2015: 2014: 1566: 1541: 1521:Another option... 1347:History of Sherry 1286: 1285: 1188: 1187: 1035:Lancashire cheese 816:Montreal Screwjob 493:Tiny Coke bottles 426: 406: 373: 358: 341: 190:Hunger strike etc 118:Tornabuoni Chapel 3488: 3389: 3113: 3070: 2989: 2949: 2937: 2893: 2857: 2673:The Rambling Man 2670: 2666: 2665: 2656: 2651: 2647: 2646: 2612: 2604: 2571: 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