User talk:Avraham/Archive 41

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of the secret evidence. It creeped from "unlikely" to "possible" to "guilty", all, supposedly based on just the public evidence. But as much as we'd all like to believe that we approach these kinds of judgments rationally and neutrally there are obviously a lot of factors into how we perceive things. This is in fact a very big part of the reason for why these kinds of procedures need to be/are carried out in the open - the input from others can help re-balance our perceptions and correct unconscious biases. And this is why all this monkeying around with "secret evidence" should have never happened and this case should have been conducted in a completely different manner. I really like the

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being reviewed. Now AdjustShif made a comment on his talk page, if i understood him correctly, that the so called secret evidence was not used by you. So which it is: was the secret evidence used or it was not used? And if it was when it will be published as it was repeatedly promised during the investigation, if it wasn't then why this case went on for weeks where, lets be frank, the evidence which was made public could have been reviewed even by my grandmother in 2 or 3 days at most.

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examins it and declares it has to remain secret. The defense demands to see it but the judge rules the guy is guilty and says something along the lines of "don't worry about that extra evidence, i've seen it but i nailed him even based on the other evidence." Can you even imagine such a situation happening in a courtroom? I know wiki is not a courtroom but IMO applying some its logics wouldn't be bad.

1432:? Please stop spreading conspiracy theories to try and delegitimize this procedure after the fact, hoping that some mud will stick. Both the evidence and decision were public. If you can find any irregularities with either, identify them and report them to ArbCom. Any public or private communication around the case that may or may not have taken place is irrelevant. -- 1203:(<-)He is not banned, but blocked for a year, although a ban may be an option. Good work in one area does not excuse gross violations of wikipedia policies and guidelines. He has repeatedly violated various principles and guidelines, and has been indef blocked not once but twice. He may request a review on his userpage or e-mail ArbCom for a review. -- 1151:

Molobo the seriousness of his actions; he's been blocked for a year already. I just didn't want to go indef now to allow for the very small possibility that perhaps, maybe with mentoring involved, he may learn how to properly interact with others and the rules of the project. There is nothing preventing him, or anyone, from asking for a review at the

502: 1603: 1360:"discussing the case". In my view the neutral way to conduct the case would have been Sciurinæ passes the evidence to the admin, if he has any questions about it, he asks, and then the off-wikipedia discusions with Sciurinæ about the case cease and the case is conducted without any esternial influences whatsoever. 1744:

responsible for the deportation of between 105 and 110.000 Dutch Jews, called himself an Aryan, and protected Dutch Nazi Menten. His very last remark I find very insulting, over the edge. Could you take a look at this? Thank you in advance for your reply: I have added your talk page to my watchlist. כל טוב,

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Hi Avi. Thanks for clearing this up. I appreciate your your hard work and dedication to community. Dear Avi, could you just please unblock and reblock those accounts as "retired" or something else, the current logs are vague and make it look like I am related to Beh-nam. Again, I apologize in advance

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I am no lawyer (nor do I play one on the radio) but in a judge-only (no jury) trial, if the judge bases his verdict on the evidence at hand, i am not certain that the defense can claim mistrial about evidence deemed unnecessary. Even if they could, the proper prcedure is an appeal, which in this case

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Over at AdjustShift's page in your reply to me you state "If you would like to say you don't trust me; fine". I want to make clear that it's not that I don't trust you. Rather I think that what happened was an unconscious shift in perception in how the public evidence was viewed, based on the content

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is still being blocked. If it is due to sock puppetry then I have an excuse. No one will listen to me on my talkpage block review. You'll notice that in my scok puppet accounts I have made good contributory edits. I keep getting blocked because I have been "block evading" (I don't know what that even

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I do not see a reason for a checkuser run right now. This person is not necessarily sockpuppetting. Should a long-term block be applied to VKing due to inappropriate speech on EnWiki, and another account starts making similar edits, then a CU would be justified to uncover the range for a rangeblock.

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is irrelevant insofar as you can't show how the final result is in any way incorrect. Besides, given the intensity of on-wiki lobbying from Molobo's supporters, I think it's highly improbable that they weren't trying to pull some strings behind the scenes. Finally, this is Avi's talk page, so I will

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Incorrect. If Scurinæ had evidence or analysis that was applicable, it would have been completely appropriate for me to have asked him to explain it. It is my job to assume Molobo is innocent at first and to separate the facts and good analysis from any possible impartiality. Ignoring valid evidence

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Avraham your comment above is interesting. I don't have any experience with that so probably i just don't understand how things work but i thought that Checkuser is simply checking the IP of an user? Obviously that's a technical function but what exactly do the editing patterns have to do with that?

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Enough. There was no wrongdoing here that I can see, and repeated unfounded accusations are only serving to indicate an unwillingness to abide by policies. The proper channels (WP:ANI and WP:BASC) have been pointed out numerous times, and further attempts at obfuscation via wikilawyering will likely

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was based on the CU evidence in a vacuum. The CU evidence combined with the editing pattern, and my experience as a CU, painted a different picture. I understand that it seems as if there was a shift in feeling, and there was; but it was based primarily on evidence that was already there. Should you

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and sorry to bother you again. I'm trying to figure out what happened. When I made the request, I clicked on the links for old and new usernames, and Tempo rubato existed somewhere else, but Rigaudon did not seem to. When you asked me to wait, Rigaudon existed here and at the German Knowledge (XXG),

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I agree that it would have been appropriate for you to ask to have the evidence explained, I would done the same myself. But is that what happened here? AdjustShift stated that he was discussing the case with Scurinæ for 20 days. Logic says you don't need to have the evidence explained for 20 days.

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Good work? I gotta laugh. Molobo was a tendentious nationalist edit-warrior who would have been indeffed years ago if it weren't for the tenacious help of Piotrus and the rest of the bee-swarm that buzz in whenever a fellow "patriotic" tendie is in trouble. Avraham, welcome to EE-land, now you will

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INDEF blocks that were reduced as "last chances" predicated on behavior. To create sockpuppets to violate wikipedia restrictions indicative of someone whose interests are NOT in creating a better project but editing as they see fit; consensus and rules be d@rned. A year will likely not impress upon

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a legal proceeding. It is a technical function in which, for lack of a better term, users who have demonstrated both a very high level of community trust, sufficient technical ability to understand the data, and the good judgment necessary to interpret the data in parallel with editing patterns are

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I cannot say I ignored it, but I would have made the same decision without AS's e-mail. I don't know about anyone else; I was asked to look at the case pretty late in the game due to its complexity, and I made a ruling. I do not recall promising to show or not show anything to anyone. By all means,

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Thank you for clarifying that; I appreciate it. I guess the best way to say it was that the stylistic evidence gathered by AdjustShift was sufficient, but not necessary in light of the combination of Scurinaæ, the edit history pattern, and the checkuser evidence. Although AS's evidence would be, in

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i prefer to use GeorgeZhao,but i registed this account before,but forgot the password. i want to merge all me global accounts for differents language of wiki projects. i am not sure if i can get this name 'GeorgeZhao' OR 'GeorgeZHAO'now, if not possible to use GeorgeZhao, 'George.Zhao' is also an

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Hi Avi, Thanks for doing the above checkuser. Whenever I've made a sock accusation I've failed, however convinced I was of the evidence. Presumably different computers/IPs were involved but the accounts were working to a common purpose. I'm not sure if there is anywhere else I am meant to go from

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to review my work, which is based on a combination of the CU evidence, the editing patterns, and the open stylistic evidence of Scurinæ, although the additional stylistic evidence by AS would only serve to further cement the decision. I assume responsibility for my work and decisions, as usual; I

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Yes, given the fact that Sciurinæ and Molobo had a history of animosity and conflict the off-wikipedia discusions about the case with Sciurinæ while examining and deciding about his faith would have been unproper. AdjustShift just admited that for the past 20 days he was in contact with Sciurinæ

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Let me explain why I have problem with this with an extreme analogy. Imagine a man is accused of killing his wife. The police brings evidence on court but the case is complex and difficult. Then additional evidence is brought in which it is claimed proves very bad things about the man. The judge

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I'm deeply concerned by the appalling way this case was handled. There was a complete lack of transparency and every time we hear a different version about the so called "secret evidence". First it was repeated for days, even weeks that the case would take longer because the secret evidence was

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and somehow you managed to give me the name change here. Is the German Rigaudon the reason why I wasn't able to create an account at Wiktionary, when I tried a few minutes ago? It asked me for my global password, and wouldn't accept the one I chose for Knowledge (XXG). How do I fix that? Thanks.

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as a Dutch Jew in his protest against the list mentioning also what he calls "partly" jewish. It's zum versyteren because this person has a bad reputation regarding Jews. In 1972 he caused outrage when he tried to pardon the last three Nazi war criminals still in Dutch prisons in 1972, who were

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You also reverted the changing in position of one sentence about support groups, which seemed out of place in a discussion of various positions on psychological effects, as well as my addition of the "Pain" section heading prefacing all the material regarding pain. You have not addressed these

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Avi, I have been following this case and would like to make the following observation. User Molobo has done a lot of good work on Knowledge (XXG) for articles related to Nazi war crimes in Poland. Why would people want to ban him? I ask you please to review his edit history and reconsider your

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My two cents: let's assume that Molobo had a sock (as I have not seen the evidence, I can only do it on good faith). Why such a draconian lenght of a block? Despite all the accompaning wikidramu, the extent of his disruption seems minimal (when was the last time he broke 3RR? A year ago...?).

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means). I want to continue to edit and stay away from the thing that got me banned in the first place. I am a changed person. I said that on my talk page but the admin simply said "no I don't think so". I asked what he meant but there was no reply. Its been weeks now.

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if AS or Scurinæ is willing to post something or e-mail you something, I have no issues with someone else dispensing the information; however, I was asked not to forward the information outside of ArbCom and the functionaries list, I personally have not. --

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AS's evidence would be, in and of itself, sufficient to indicate that Molobo=Gwinndeith, it was not necessary in my opinion as the deciding admin. Should you fel I have made an error, which is of course possible, please bring it up to ArbCom. Thank you. --

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This Tajik guy sure is slick and he knows how to trick you admins. I have no idea why you protecting him, it's not doing any good to Knowledge (XXG). Another thing I wanna add is that Tajik knows a way of logging from Germany on a server in the

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really? so you would have been ok with a situation that i would have been in off-wiki comunication with AdjustShift explaining him that and why he should not ban Molobo? Maybe you are correct but my gut feeling is that would have been a real no

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I'm sure you simply missed my earlier message before you archived your Talk page, but here it is again for your convenience, with emphasis added: Please explain how in your view, the BMA's quoted statement "contradicts the

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and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing!

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tasked by the community to make said judgment as to the probability and likelihood of various accounts being one and the same, or not, and to take (or direct others to take) the appropriate actions to protect the project.

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I guess the best way to say it was that the stylistic evidence gathered by AdjustShift was sufficient, but not necessary in light of the combinationof Scurinaæ, the edit history pattern, and the checkuser evidence. This

1735:שלום וברכה! Hi Avraham. I saw on your profile that you are an administrator that understands and performs range blocks. If you could give me your expert opinion in the following matter I would really appreciate it. On 1774:

Thank you for your reply. I didn't mean to ask for a CU but if you agree that the above mentioned remark of VKing is over the edge. I might be too sensitive but I think it is despicable what he wrote. שבת שלום

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I don't understand what do you mean by "not necessary in light of". Was the secret evidence a part in your decision on the case or was it not? And why it wasn't published before the decision was made as it was

759:, right? (probably needs an article)). But without actually being able to see the data I can't help but think that you've fit that upward slopping regression line through something like Graph #4 (lower left). 1261:

I'm not sure how is that a technical function and neither how are the two things connected. Can you please point me to page with where I can read the rules for Checkuser? I only manage to find this page

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Hi Avi, I'm content with the box, but I think the wording "The article on the incident" needs some work... how to improve it, precisely, I can't think of off-hand... Just kibbitzing a bit...

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It's the same Anscombe - it's just in Economics he's known because of the work he did with Robert Aumann. Anyway, regardless of the disagreement here, thank you for your hard work.

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Please look at the merit of this log. It contains lots of unfair blocks, unblocks, duration changes and other comments. Please also analyze it from the chronological angle. --

1691:, this is clear case of fishing by a banned user. I am not Tajik or related to him, so why are you confirming my alternative accounts as "sock puppets"? I haven't violated 540:, along with other examples of following me around to other pages I edit and reverting my changes or modifying my changes, seems to me to be the textbook definition of 672:

A German bureaucrat kindly renamed the stolen account, but I still can't create the name at Wiktionary. Even though I seem to be the only existing Rigaudon anywhere

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Because you have edited the ADL page, I thought you would be interested in the AFD:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Criticism of the Anti-Defamation League

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have stated I have no issues with an appeal; and if Arbcom/AUSC feels I have erred, I would be happy to be correct my error and assume any rebuke necessary. --

1793: 1555:? A number of other images are going to need to be deleted (*I think*) for being non-free with too high a resolution, you can see a small discussion of it 1146:

I believe a year is appropriate based on the history of wiki guideline and policy violations and based on a prior full one year block and not one but

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Incidentally, I made the changes to the wording to add the self-published note and remove a bit of rubbish. Hadn't noticed the wording at the end.

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Deacon, I find this comment very inappopriate, not only towards Molobo, but towards me and other Polish editors. Please refactor it. Thank you, --

800:. He specifically created the dataset to show that pure numerical analysis without graphical analysis can be misleading at times. Thank you. -- 403:

may believe the BMA is contradicting itself, but you have not adequately demonstrated that, and thus your reversion seems based on (at least)

1642: 1623: 374: 1292:. Checkuser data includes more than just IP information, and the role of checkusers involves more than just the technical data available. 894:

a very complicated case which was why multiple admins, checkusers, and members of ArbCom got involved. Speaking for myself, the original

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a very complicated case which was why multiple admins, checkusers, and members of ArbCom got involved. Speaking for myself, the original

357: 1699:. I am neither a banned user nor have used these accounts to evade 3RR or anything like that. This is an infringement on my privacy. -- 1860: 1830:. Another hint: Tajik knew the banned user Nisakhan very well and strangely Kurdo777 is now also bringing up that same Nisarkhan dude. 544:, in violation of Knowledge (XXG) policy. Please be aware that since you have said that you "know" that I personally do not like you, 1109:

I* would like *you* to review it. Why have somebody else waste time on this case, when you're already somewhat familiar with it? --

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Thank you. Can you give me a link to a page which I should post on, or refer me to a steward who has a talk page here? Thanks.

1695:, the accounts in question are used for different topical areas (politics, ancient history, modern history) etc, in like with 2121: 2091: 2044: 1874: 1228: 775:

and of itself, sufficient to indicate that Molobo=Gwinndeith, it was not necessary in my opinion as the deciding admin. This

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Thanks for this, when you left the channel we thought you weren't going to be able to do it. Thank you for following up!

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I understand your concern, Lossmark. However, may I respectfully claim that there are flaws in your analogy?

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Avraham while you were examining the Molobo case did you have off-wiki discussions about it with Sciurinæ?

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be viewed as disruptive. At this time, interested parties should be following the PROPER channels only. --

1914: 1854: 1632: 1613: 1036:; I'd be within wiki policy to go indef, being that he was on his second last chance after two indefs. -- 1907: 1285: 1971: 1951: 1936: 1887: 1674: 1533: 620: 606: 591: 1627: 1670: 1447:

Any public or private communication around the case that may or may not have taken place is irrelevant

1989: 1877:)? I asked for the check at CU page, since there's a similarity between these 2 accounts. Thank you. 1839: 1800: 1689: 1262: 2131: 2111: 2081: 2034: 1478: 1437: 1189: 797: 750: 552: 450: 416: 982: 2116: 2086: 2067: 2060: 2039: 1924: 1868: 1780: 1749: 1720: 1704: 1564: 1492: 1455: 1403: 1365: 1331: 1314: 1270: 958: 928: 879: 734: 717: 699: 684: 662: 647: 757: 541: 530: 2033:

This message is to notify to you that G.phanisrinivas is know known as Srinivas. Thank you! --

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so if the final result is correct anything else doesn't matter? i find this logic dangerous.

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The mighty Gods of e-mail have decreed yet more rubbish to be present in your in-box.... :)

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fel I have made an error, which is of course possible, please bring it up to ArbCom.

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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Hi Avraham, could you check to make sure I did everything needed for the image

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Molobo is more than welcome to request another admin to review the block. --

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Thanks for all your help. I have made a request at the page you suggested.

675:, my account here is treated as "unattached" to the global account. See 1426:"... the case is conducted without any esternial influences whatsoever" 547:

this evidence is all the more convincing. Please stop immediately.

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Right now, it would not be appropriate, I am afraid. Sorry. --

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Knowledge (XXG):Sockpuppet investigations/Supreme Deliciousness

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end our discussion here. I just wanted to ask you to stop your

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realise why no admin is active in the area in an admin way. ;)

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Please explain reversion of British Medical Association quote

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at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

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I strongly think that you're wrong in Tajik's case. Clerk

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graph on your talk page (This is the Anscombe of Anscombe-

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You've got mail. Please contact me as soon as possible.

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Also please explain the reversion of the other changes,

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No, and if I would have had, how would it matter? --

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

1803:already said he's sure it's Tajik's sock accounts. 1309:That's just what I was looking for. thanks Nathan. 373:Whats "ArbCom"? And can you provide a link please? 2106:Hi! You might be interested in the discussion at 411:which you did not address in your edit summary. 582:Knowledge (XXG):Sockpuppet investigations/Molobo 1794:Knowledge (XXG):Sockpuppet investigations/Tajik 1473:against this SPI on all sorts of talk pages. -- 484:option i'd like to change. thanks so much. 1655:}} to their talk page with a friendly message. 849:A summary of the conclusions reached follows. 8: 479:Please help me to change gzhao to GeorgeZhao 1184:decision. I must run off to work, regards-- 2066:Hello, Avraham. You have new messages at 679:. Have you any suggestions? Thanks again. 1810:? Tajik used the following socks before: 832:The Molobo case & the secret evidence 729:Everything is in order now. Many thanks. 1153:ban/long term block appeals subcommittee 1265:, is that the correct page to look at? 1715:for taking up so much of your time. -- 1155:. That is what they are there for. -- 796:, and the data itself can be found at 48:Do not edit the contents of this page. 1242:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 1113:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 1058:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 1016:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 7: 840:The following discussion is closed. 1849:Hi. Could you please also check if 1383:is never an appropriate option. -- 1688:Hi Avraham. Regarding this report 1626:has smiled at you! Smiles promote 24: 792:As for Anscombe, it was actually 459:Answered on user's talk page. -- 1512:The discussion above is closed. 895: 780: 500: 29: 2102:Tb Notification Using friendly 1578:My bot thanks you for flag! -- 1: 2108:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Friendly 657:Thanks. I'll look into that. 1806:Did you see what Jake shown 1651:Smile at others by adding {{ 1525:See, I read your mind :) -- 1263:Wikiversity:CheckUser policy 94: 1903:Some shameless thankspam... 744:Wanted to clarify one thing 2149: 2029:G.phanisrinivas → Srinivas 1863:) has anything to do with 1697:Knowledge (XXG):SOCK#LEGIT 347:Can you please unblock me? 2127:13:18, 18 June 2009 (UTC) 2097:13:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC) 2050:09:15, 18 June 2009 (UTC) 2024:21:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC) 1998:17:50, 16 June 2009 (UTC) 1988:is overdue to be closed. 1976:20:06, 15 June 2009 (UTC) 1956:18:16, 12 June 2009 (UTC) 1941:18:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC) 1927:23:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC) 1897:04:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC) 1844:14:43, 10 June 2009 (UTC) 1785:16:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC) 1770:16:04, 11 June 2009 (UTC) 1754:14:01, 10 June 2009 (UTC) 1725:03:26, 11 June 2009 (UTC) 1709:11:55, 10 June 2009 (UTC) 1679:10:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC) 1646:04:43, 10 June 2009 (UTC) 1553:File:Nizar Rayyan AFP.jpg 1547:non-free images questions 445:reversions. Please do. 42:of past discussions with 1739:talk page an user added 1669:here. Any suggestions?-- 1592:09:30, 9 June 2009 (UTC) 1569:22:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC) 1542:05:10, 8 June 2009 (UTC) 1514:Please do not modify it. 1497:15:30, 3 June 2009 (UTC) 1483:15:23, 3 June 2009 (UTC) 1460:15:11, 3 June 2009 (UTC) 1442:14:57, 3 June 2009 (UTC) 1408:15:14, 3 June 2009 (UTC) 1393:14:56, 3 June 2009 (UTC) 1370:14:43, 3 June 2009 (UTC) 1351:14:06, 3 June 2009 (UTC) 1336:10:04, 3 June 2009 (UTC) 1319:18:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1301:18:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1275:16:05, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1253:07:11, 3 June 2009 (UTC) 1234:21:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1213:14:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1194:10:48, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1165:21:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1124:19:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1091:06:54, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1069:05:13, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 1046:21:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1027:21:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 1000:15:56, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 963:15:43, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 948:14:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 933:13:25, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 914:12:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 884:08:48, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 864:15:41, 3 June 2009 (UTC) 843:Please do not modify it. 824:14:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 810:12:49, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 769:07:14, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 739:20:45, 28 May 2009 (UTC) 722:16:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC) 704:15:46, 28 May 2009 (UTC) 689:15:18, 28 May 2009 (UTC) 667:16:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC) 652:15:48, 27 May 2009 (UTC) 625:15:44, 27 May 2009 (UTC) 611:15:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC) 596:08:55, 27 May 2009 (UTC) 577:04:20, 27 May 2009 (UTC) 557:23:11, 25 May 2009 (UTC) 523:17:52, 25 May 2009 (UTC) 494:05:38, 25 May 2009 (UTC) 469:17:52, 25 May 2009 (UTC) 455:04:41, 25 May 2009 (UTC) 440:03:25, 25 May 2009 (UTC) 421:03:24, 25 May 2009 (UTC) 383:10:56, 25 May 2009 (UTC) 366:00:19, 25 May 2009 (UTC) 1812:User:German-Orientalist 1428:You mean, a bit like a 351:I don't understand why 89: 76: 69: 62: 2064: 1606: 2063: 1605: 529:Dangerously close to 2068:Srinivas's talk page 1915:User:James von Brunn 1224:Deacon of Pndapetzim 1908:User:Colds7ream/RfA 2075:remove this notice 2065: 1607: 1296: 1034:Molobo's block log 798:Anscombe's quartet 751:Anscombe's quartet 572: 2135: 2022: 1657: 1294: 1231: 570: 428:Talk:Circumcision 405:original research 341: 340: 85: 84: 58: 57: 52:current talk page 18:User talk:Avraham 2140: 2129: 2124: 2119: 2114: 2094: 2089: 2084: 2078: 2047: 2042: 2037: 2021: 2019: 2008: 1946:Agreed. 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