1064:, Spandler, etc.), denied by the Law (that crime did not existed then and nobody from SPK were sentenced because RAF and viceversa, and SPK was never forbidden) and a claim denied by RAF self (RAF rejected expresively and take distance from SPK, is it a contradiction that RAF agrees in this point with the Law?). A claim which was rejected by legal procedures (defamation, calumny, etc.) by the people of SPK, and a claim which was deleted from Encylopedias like Brockhaus and dtv, as you already realized. Certainly these last details (legal procedures against those false allegations against SPK) are also part of the history of SPK, but are also not mentioned at all in my proposal, and certainly you will notice that these details would be certainly related to a legal perspective on SPK, and not only the details around detentions against Hubers. Well, again: of course, this general short article lacks a lot of details, but we already discussed the reasons to do so. If the article would need to be improved then it could be done in the future. Do you agree again? --
1112:
the name SPK, where was SPK founded, who did found SPK, when was SPK dissolved, how and by whom was SPK continued until now, what is in general terms the SPK ideology, what is the internet site of SPK. So I can not imagine what sort of contents is proposed to "balance" that information and I do not understand how these facts could be considered POV, moreover I think that any fact can not be "balanced" but denied if it is not true. Does SPK not mean "Socialist
Patients' Collective"? Was SPK not founded in Heidelberg?, was SPK not founded by Huber?, was SPK not dissolved in july 1971?, was SPK not continued by PF/SPK(H) as Patientenfront declared explicity by Huber self? Does SPK not enact that "doctors are the ruling class of capitalism and SPK fight asgainst doctors"? Is not the enacted SPK program: "turn illness into a weapon, in favour of illness and against capitalism"? is not
1053:. Yes it does not mentions that Hubers were forbidden to practice medicine but it also does not mention that Hubers had already rejected to be doctors forever and brand themesleves as patients, front patients. Abolition of the doctor-patient relation is certainly an important detail about SPK/PF-ideology and practice, but a detail not mentioned at all in the proposed entrie. There is not mentioned where were all the 500 patients before coming to SPK, neither where they were after SPK dissolved (abroad? working? in the PF/SPK(H)? no where?). About the allegedely dozen former SPK members allegedely moved across to the RAF, I believe that you could realize that they are mostly factoids claimed by sources which does not provide the original source for those affirmations, as we discovered with one single case (C.R. and train bombing). If you read the legal procedures from SPK
2108:(or its Spanish equivalent). I am also not suggesting that we believe Parker, or any of the other sources for that matter, but we do need to take note of reliable sources that take alternative views. Where matters are contested, and there are various truth claims, we need at the very least to attribute statements to their authors – say exactly who says what – and cannot present contentious statements as fact. Claudio has delivered some reliably published independent third-party sources above (I would encourage him to use this opportunity to add more of them, especially third-party academic sources), and we should factor these sources in to arrive at something that is NPOV. I am currently looking at
208:. It seems that demanding not to publish defamatory and offensive material -which is forbidden by the own policies of wikipedia but also by law- is assumed by some wikipedian-users and wikipedian-admins as an allegedly "threat", an allegedely disruption and as an excuse to publish defamatory and unsourced contentious material and even to accuse the people who try to stop that behaviour as people acting with "terrorism-like tactics". That is very serious, don't you think so? I read that wikipedia forbid legal threats but does it means a wikipedian is allowed to act against the law here and to accuse people of acting like terrorists? --
1043:
struggle of those patients inside and outside the prisons (cited by SPK sources but also by external sources like that from
Guattari I cited), the hungerstrikes, the legal procedures against the responsabile doctors, and it is not mentioned the accusations, trials and sentences against doctors since those times; it is also not mentioned that the detention and imprisonement of SPK patients could be considered a sort of political persecution and a desinformation campaign as sources state (I've just added three more soueces in my last edition which claim that and even denounce tortures against SPK patients:
721:, thus forbidenn by wikipedia policies, not just demanding a lot of time to corroborate the large amount of data and emerging contradictions, but also risking to mislead the readers and to harm that people of SPK and other people. Instead of that, there is a lot of information and even history taken down in the SPK site and certainly the readers -even you- could contrast that info with external sources whenever they need. Therefore, I would suggest to leave a short paragraph about SPK and a link to that site. What do you think?
2061:'s book, I would take a bit of caution before believing everything it says, at least when it comes to the book saying that the accusations of terrorism were false. From his own critical view as a Marxist and a proponent of critical psychology, Ian Parker may have been more inclined to believe the SPK's stance than the German government's. It could be argued that the book written by Jillian Becker (a right-wing journalist) is "counterinsurgency tripe", but it can also be noted that
1866:(unless sources published later on definitely establish that some of these sources were in error). Where SPK members were subject to persecution, jail and torture, of course this is something the article should cover as well, as is the continued existence of the organisation, but we need to find sources, especially third-party sources. The best thing you and I can do here is to research sources which I can then drop on the Spanish article's talk page. The
1581:(unless sources published later on definitely establish that some of these sources were in error). Where SPK members were subject to persecution, jail and torture, of course this is something the article should cover as well, as is the continued existence of the organisation, but we need to find sources, especially third-party sources. The best thing you and I can do here is to research sources which I can then drop on the Spanish article's talk page. The
1244:(unless sources published later on definitely establish that some of these sources were in error). Where SPK members were subject to persecution, jail and torture, of course this is something the article should cover as well, as is the continued existence of the organisation, but we need to find sources, especially third-party sources. The best thing you and I can do here is to research sources which I can then drop on the Spanish article's talk page. The
3430:
was reverted, and that's all there is to it. However, threatening to reveal the identity and address of two people against their will to anyone wanting to know, and doing so for six years straight, can reasonably be qualified as something criminals or terrorists would do. I think this part is pretty simple: if the members of the SPK are concerned about their threats being called "terrorist-like tactics", maybe they should consider removing those threats?
4432:
2494:
core of SPK concepts. I also know and it is documented that
Foucault and others, signed a press declaration when some SPK patients were imprissoned, but except that, he did nothing else; but it is also documented that some years later, Foucault did nothing but remained sat when some PF patients were attacked in a medical congress were PF patients made public for the first time one of its fundamental texts (Iatrocracy on a world wide scale
3487:. Moreover, actually in the SPK-site says nothing about revealing those wikipedian's data there, but it says the SPK knows this data, so it is allowed to provide those wikipedian' data to anyone interested (to anyone affected? to any one needy? to the bosses? to the authorities? who are allowed to reject an authority request on revealing private data? the wikipedians? the doctors? the patients? please don't worry, I am just wondering).
1812:. In a general short entrie, the more relevant details about SPK would be obscured due iluminating these facts and explanations and comparisons between SPK and RAF, therefore at any rate "unduly weighted". Certainly it is not irrelevant that the patients of SPK were object of persecution, jail and torture, neither it is less relevant that despite of and against that, SPK still exists and remains its struggle until nowdays. --
1519:. In a general short entrie, the more relevant details about SPK would be obscured due iluminating these facts and explanations and comparisons between SPK and RAF, therefore at any rate "unduly weighted". Certainly it is not irrelevant that the patients of SPK were object of persecution, jail and torture, neither it is less relevant that despite of and against that, SPK still exists and remains its struggle until nowdays. --
3353:), showing that Sabbut was unreasonably rejecting well reliable and verifiable sources in order to take into account some dubious sources claiming the demonstrated false allegations against the SPK-patients, thus in order to force that point of view hostile, mendacious and spurious against those living people. Now Sabbut is just repeating and repeating his same chatter, although he has felt free to delete my comments
643:
2634:, in favor of illness, considering illness as the protest against capitalism and considering illness the anticipation of the human species that does not yet exist but that should be created through illness. The SPK fights against capitalism and against all doctors considering them to be the ruling class of the system and poisonous to the human species. The most widely known text of the PF/SPK(H) is the book
647:
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339:"quatsch ist, dass huber zur raf gehört, weil er das info liest. dazu kann nur er und er nur durch ne grundsätzliche kritik seiner politik vor seiner verhaftung kommen. alles andere ist unmöglich." "wir und ein teil von uns ganz sicher, wissen was wir wollen + was sich ausschließt. es wird keinen versuch geben, die raf in die nähe eines dieser sparvereine zu schieben (kpd/ml oder spk oder was immer)."
991:), nor does it mention what they were -- rightly or wrongly -- convicted of, and it does not mention that, according to multiple sources, about a dozen former SPK members moved across to the RAF when the SPK was dissolved. Another fact that is missing is that the Hubers were denied the right to practice medicine (also in Zeittafel). Could we work on a version that incorporates that info? Best, --
1219:. In a general short entrie, the more relevant details about SPK would be obscured due iluminating these facts and explanations, therefore at any rate "unduly weighted". Certainly it is not irrelevant that the patients of SPK were object of persecution, jail and torture, neither it is less relevant that despite of and against that, SPK still exists and remains its struggle until nowdays. --
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1038:). Leave aside the factoids. What about the facts? Of course, there are a lot of details (events, specificities, words, etc.) which are actually not mentioned in my proposal. For example it is not mentioned the first assembly of patients in favour of illness and against the doctors, and that is just a very important detail which is missed. There is not explicity mentioned the
747:(I'm pretty sure the corresponding Spanish guideline is pretty similar). The second source, which is the basis for the bulk of the present article, is self-published. The third source is used for an isolated factoid. So yes, as things stand, a short article seems sensible, pending proper research. (A link to the organization's own site is standard and present even now). --
4487:
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3502:. Well, just to finish, it seems I had to answer again here, as emerged some new details to clarify. But I hope that I have provided at least new data, so the only thing I have to repeat here would be that: these paragraphs bringed again to my mind the already mentioned fact that some years ago, one wikipedian actually published at wikipedia her/his selfmade picture
3773:"assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit". She also supported coercion to prevent the "undeniably feeble-minded" from procreating, and she recommended that immigration exclude those "whose condition is known to be detrimental to the stamina of the race," and that sterilization and segregation be applied to those with incurable, hereditary disabilities.
645:
1359:
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685:? So, as you realized, this woman not being from SPK, is only one of many details and contradictions emerging just from only one event. Therefore I do not want to prevent you from reading the very large sources I introduced and the other sources you found, but meanwhile perhaps you will be interested in considering the following proposal about the
4008:
517:
161:
1440:
account the proportion of members of the SPK who later became members of the RAF, which is significantly much higher than the proportion you will find among people from other backgrounds. According to sources, it seems pretty much clear that their affiliation to the SPK had a significant role in their later affiliation to the RAF.
859:
820:
1681:. All those sources were provided in the references of my proposal as you can check again. On the other hand: are you having any trouble or doubt about SPK current existence? That should be a consequence of those non-SPK sources claiming and spreading twaddle about SPK, therefore, not your fault, and since you learned the
2215:, y es causada por el sistema capitalista. El SPK lucha a favor de la enfermedad, a la que considera la anticipación de la especie humana, y lucha contra el capitalismo y contra todos los médicos a quienes considera la clase dominante del sistema. La más conocida entre numerosas publicaciones del PF/SPK(H), es el libro
925:, y es causada por el sistema capitalista. El SPK lucha a favor de la enfermedad, a la que considera la anticipación de la especie humana, y lucha contra el capitalismo y contra todos los médicos a quienes considera la clase dominante del sistema. La más conocida entre numerosas publicaciones del PF/SPK(H), es el libro
622:
3211:, a friend of Sabbut who Sabbut recomend to be asked about "my behaviour". Well, precisely these users together with some other users used their admin privileges to expulse me from WP.es precisely because I agressively -as recomended by WP-policies- deleted contentious material against living people (see
23:
3505:(spying?) of Krankheit-Im_Recht-SPK-building, trying to illustrate an hostile, mendacious and spuirious article against SPK-people. But let me introduce data non-mentioned here: later on that article was complemented by another wikipedian who published for the first time in wikipedia, the complete name
3345:
tactic of publishing in wikipedia the first name and the last name (never published in wikipedia) of a SPK-patient, and that against the concerned patient's will, it is a tactic considered by Sabbut as a "terrorist-like tactic" and I also realized that Sabbut thinks it is a reasonable consideration.
2511:
Would you agree if we do not stigmatize Sartre as beeing a "leftist intellectual"? but perhaps you would find a better anecdote to know that Sartre was so "crazy" (for whom?) that not only he did supported SPK practice and concepts, but he also did rejected a Nobel price!!! But I am not suggesting to
2114:
I am aware that the thread is a little chaotic and my orange bar pops up quite a lot, but I don't think I have missed any of your posts. In the section above I noted that
Claudio took care to only strike out his own comments, and leave yours intact, which I think means there was no ill intent; and he
2087:
Although my last comments were more a reply to
Claudio than a reply to you, I think they also provide some insight on the subject, and they should definitely belong to the same section. Claudio was just blocked for a couple of days last night because of his attitude, although he might like to explain
1111:
Yes, I preferred to use those words used by SPK, like "collective" instead of "organization", "dissolved" instead of "disbanded", "patients" instead of "clients"; is it a POV?. But beyond that, my proposed entrie is not a perspective about SPK but it merely contains the following contents: what means
3828:
is to be topic banned for a period of six months to include
Abortion, Planned Parenthood, Eugenics, and Nazi related topics, broadly construed, including all biographies of notable persons involved in such subjects, broadly construed. This would include editing any section of of any biographies that
3356:
precisely saying that I am repeating the same allegations. And the last he's done immediately after I already announced I will not do more editions in that talk page; should I assume bad faith on someone-else who could be suspecting that Sabbut is trying to instigate me?. About me, what I suspect is
2083:
By the way, Jayen. I would also advise you to check from time to time the history of your talk page. ClaudioSantos has this nasty habit of trying to hide my comments in a different section from his own, probably so as to prevent you from reading them. For example, he just striked all his text from a
1691:
in a statement in its first or second paragraph like "some members of this university became guerilla-RAF-members"? But if so, perhaps I would clap laughing, it means: certainly I will remain convinced that sort of idiotism must not be used in the SPK article as being used for those sources to imply
442:
articles that I said I will translate for the
Spanish editors, do let me know, and I'll present those sources at the same time. It will probably be a couple of days before I get back to the Spanish editors, as I'm snowed under with work. You're welcome to e-mail me too (see toolbox in left sidebar).
4373:
Yes, I know you are on the same side condemning the Nazi action, but I think is not overly emotive to call it by its appropiate name. For example, the article about Shoa, refers to Shoa as mass murder and genocide, and surely nobody is claiming to change that wording arguing it is overly emotive or
3657:
sorry, I meant: when I had finished that comment then it would be my last one in this thread. Before anyone answer it I've been adding some links, wording, etc. to that comment, and sometimes the changes do not appear because I've had to delete the entire comment and rewrote it with the changes. It
3429:
Knowing this, no, revealing a name of someone who had already revealed it himself several times in the very same medium, and then hiding that same name just in case it could be harmful, cannot reasonably be considered a terrorist-like tactic as
Claudio has just suggested. In any case, an error that
3135:
for POV pushing), flagrantly throwing around comments that lawyers and judges are involved with the matter, re-adding a message that had been taken and removed as a legal threat several times in the past, etc., constitutes disruption. I have warned them for the behavior, and if it continues, return
2312:
In the SPK you and even the police could find books from Marx, Engels, Hegel, even about guerrilla, and even from the psychiater
Wilhelm Reich, but not even one book or text about anti-psyichiatry and that issue was never discussed in the SPK. The allegedely relation between SPK and 'antipsychiatry
2068:
I will keep looking for additional
English- and Spanish-language sources. However, I think it would be of great help to find a contemporary newspaper article on the SPK. Perhaps the Der Spiegel notice from 1973, a year after the incident, could be of help, but an article written in the 21st century
1969:
ex-SPK who later on became RAF members, must not be used in the SPK article, because it is being used by the respective authors just to imply false allegations and false accusations against SPK, thus misleading the readers with garbage. For example and on the other hand: are you having any trouble
1874:
links are the best starting point for that; if you can help me identify the most reliable and well-researched among that lot (above all scholarly sources), I will pass them on and will have a basis for discussion with the Spanish editors. We should focus on identifying third-party sources, as these
1589:
links are the best starting point for that; if you can help me identify the most reliable and well-researched among that lot (above all scholarly sources), I will pass them on and will have a basis for discussion with the Spanish editors. We should focus on identifying third-party sources, as these
1324:
in a statement in its first or second paragraph like "some members of this university became guerilla-RAF-members"? But if so, perhaps I would clap laughing, it means: certainly I will remain convinced that sort of idiotism must not be used in the SPK article. So let return and focus on SPK and let
1252:
links are the best starting point for that; if you can help me identify the most reliable and well-researched among that lot (above all scholarly sources), I will pass them on and will have a basis for discussion with the Spanish editors. We should focus on identifying third-party sources, as these
1132:
and despite of all that we discussed (allegation denied by RAF, allegations denied by the trials, allegations denied by the legal procedures from SPK/PF(H) against defamation, allegations denied by reliable sources -so you agree wikipedia article should remain conservative to avoid harming people-,
1042:
neither its dialectic moments, although being the main core of SPK ideology-philosophy-practice. About legal perspective: it is not mentioned the legal procedure used by the SPK patients at those times against eviction, dismissal, etc. About the detention of patients of SPK, it does not mention the
190:
even exist in German Law at SPK times (70/71), but it was introduced in 1976, years after SPK self-disolution, years after the trials. None of SPK were accused of that crime ever. Calumny consists in accusing someone of a crime he/she did not commited. But not only for Grem Guma but for J.P. Sartre
3288:
In fact, I once mentioned the name of a member of the SPK. Truth is, at least one article and talk page of the Spanish Knowledge had been spammed many times in 2004-2005 with propaganda articles signed by the very same person, so I really don't understand how mentioning that name could possibly be
1056:, you will find that they even demonstrated that a lot of those persons were not ever in the SPK. But you also could realize that external sources are also contradictory in this issue, as I showed and cited: some sources claim this persons were from RAF but do not claim they were from SPK, so, per
133:
and look for the parts related to president Heinemann. Also external authors have mentioned it was a desinformation campaign against SPK. It also seems like editing Nelson Mandela article based on the police warrants made against him which lead him to prison, with the difference that none from SPK
3909:
I can not agree. Criticism is superfluos, because what is not coherent to its concept, soon or later collapses. What is needed here is to mention that criticism is based on and is coming from capitalism, which is the underlying and incoherent structure, that deserves all combativeness in order to
2821:
Some off-topic nonsense, summary: some wikipedians have accused of terrorism the SPK-patients. Grounds: wikipedians have revealed in wikipedia SPK-patient's names, professions, pictures, etc. against their will and/or linked their data to hostile(hostile), mendacious(false), spurious(non-genuine)
2493:
About Foucault: what I know and is documented is certainly J.P. Sartre supported and encouraged decisevely SPK, and he participated and encouraged the counter-investigations on the SPK-trials, and he even wrote a support preface to one of the SPK books, indeed a very important book containing the
1313:
against SPK. Those sources were provided in the references of my proposal as you can check again. On the other hand: are you having any trouble or doubt about SPK current existence? That should be a consequence of those non-SPK sources claiming and spreading twaddle about SPK, therefore, not your
1060:
you should remain conservative in publishing that info. And you may notice that those sources claiming that "dozen SPK patients became RAF", seem to be very biased sources reducing all the history of SPK to that allegedely relation with RAF, trying to exemplify with those "dozen" persons that SPK
283:
sign with his full name in other articles in the SPK website, the best thing will be for me to hide from public view the edition where I revealed his full name. I just hope that Claudio Santos is just as vehement when it is the identities of Ascánder and JorgeGG which are at stake and compels the
3772:
1. I have provided verifiable and academic reliable sources for the following facts, which were already included by other users at Margaret Sanger's article: she, founder of Planned Parenthood, was an advocate and supporter of eugenics and she expressed that birth control like eugenics sought to
2360:
I accept that the SPK does not and did not associate itself with the anti-psychiatry movement; so I agree that phrase ("A part of the anti-psychiatry movement...") should be removed. What is true is that they received some support from members of the anti-psychiatry movement, notably Foucault; I
875:. It is somehow the current spanish version, but corrected and reworded, thus refactored. I've cited the respective SPK sources, but to satisfy the WP policies and easy the thing, I also added some external sources which certainly you will find somehow approximate to the SPK sources (for example:
1893:
I've held back on translating the Spiegel sources so far because they are rather old, written at the time the investigations took place, and I am unclear as to how much the suppositions expressed in these articles were superseded or borne out by later developments. That is always a problem with
1608:
I've held back on translating the Spiegel sources so far because they are rather old, written at the time the investigations took place, and I am unclear as to how much the suppositions expressed in these articles were superseded or borne out by later developments. That is always a problem with
1271:
I've held back on translating the Spiegel sources so far because they are rather old, written at the time the investigations took place, and I am unclear as to how much the suppositions expressed in these articles were superseded or borne out by later developments. That is always a problem with
1439:
members of the University of Münster became terrorists if said terrorists are a negligible proportion among all of the University of Münster's former students, similar to the proportion you will find among people with a different educative background. This seems not to be true if you take into
1721:
of the alumni of the University of Münster became terrorist if there is only one notable example. It would also be contrary to NPOV, as you could also argue that some of the alumni became notable architects, lawyers, mathematicians, writers, singers, poets, businesspeople and the like. To put
2316:
SPK emphatically and expresively refers to Illness against iatro-capitalism. It is a basic part of their ideology and its illness concept, as they consider the fundamental identity/contradiction being precisely Illness against capitalism. Replacing the word capitalism with "diseased society"
3312:, they're mostly self-published works (so I would never consider those as valid references) or are in German (a language I don't understand, so I wouldn't reasonably evaluate and use those myself, although I'm of course open to reading any translation of said references). One more reference
1722:
emphasis on only one of the outcomes among notable alumni of the University is to add an unnecessary and unacceptable bias to an otherwise perfectly acceptable article. As for the previous versions of that question of yours, they have already been answered by me at the previous subsection.
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is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
4867:
is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
4794:
is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
2062:
1137:
deny the facts of my proposed entrie, so how exactly those false allegations could "balance" my proposed entrie? Is the insertion of defamatory contents a way to balance an article in wikipedia? Sincerely I know your negative answer to this last question, but why not to question it
3298:), whom I personally don't know, he did not call the SPK a bunch of terrorists. Rather, he described some of its tactics as "terrorist-like", that is, tactics that could reasonably be used by terrorists. Namely, threatening to reveal the real names of two fellow Knowledge editors,
3417:
The first and last name of that member of the SPK were in fact published several times in the Spanish Knowledge, presumably by that same person or by any other vandal wanting to impose the SPK's view on health and other subjects onto the Spanish Knowledge. Once I realized that
1692:
false allegations and false accusations against SPK, thus misleading the readers with garbage. So let return and focus on SPK and let aside and don't you worry due my last (anti)rethoric question against high private and established institutions such as pride and arrogance. --
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1153:, an insertion of "unduly weighted" content as it implies those harmful allegations? Why not to insert into each wikipedia's article of each kindergarten, school, university, editorial and company, the name of each RAF member who studied or worked there before becoming RAF?
3784:
I will not discuss anything about those facts, nor I will argue for their inclution in wikipedia. Indeed, those facts are part of the mentioned wikipedia-articles and they were accepted as well referenced facts, despite of certain structural resistence from some users. --
620:
source says "a few" ("more than a dozen") SPK members (a rather small percentage of the overall membership) joined the RAF, among them Carmen Roll. As far as I can make out, there are a lot of sources identifying Roll as an SPK member who joined the RAF some time in 1971
24:
http://books.google.com.co/books?id=9xfmuHGDcomplimen4IAC&pg=PA351&dq=Huber+und+seine+Frau+wurden+in+Stammheim+inhaftiert&hl=es&ei=GNZITZr0D8rZgQeKotSpBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
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system, and viewed it as an appropriate response to such a system; and it saw doctors as the system's ruling class. Its declared aim was, and remains, to "turn illness into a weapon", a vision that attracted support from intellectuals and anti-psychiatrists like
2278:
I've reverted your editions to the lead despite of your grammar and style could be better than mine. Nothing against you nor against your efforts (thanks!), but I found some inaccuarcies in your edition, that I will discuss here before changing the lead. ¿Ok? --
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repetitive. So, why the infamous mass murder of hundred of thousands under the guise of euthanasia shall be treated in a different way?. Moreover: historical, academic, periodistic and juridical sources refers to the nazi euthanasia program as massive murder.--
1034:. About the WP article, I believed that you have agreed that: it is better a short and a general article than a larger and more detailed but bad sourced and controversial one, builded by selecting isolated factoids or even facts from disperse sources (that is
3004:, up to five disparaging statements: "seems not even able to make a simple sum", "unable to read and understand this", "copiers like this little Sabbut", "desired toy", "fetishism?"). He also tends to use terms such as "libel" and "defamation" (for example,
2822:
chatter against them and against SPK. For their part, the SPK has NOT revealed NOR published some wikipedians' names, professions, pictures, etc. which has been already revealed by the own wikipedians to anyone all around the WEB included the own wikipedia.
2458:. Under pressure from German law enforcement over alleged terrorist links, the SPK declared its self-dissolution in July 1971, "as a strategic withdrawal"; Huber and his wife were arrested and jailed. Since then, the SPK has continued its activities as the
1091:– no organisation or political actor enjoys that privilege on Knowledge. However, each article on Knowledge links to the article subject's home page, and so does and will the SPK article, allowing readers access to the subject's understanding of itself. --
677:. Yes, the sources are contradictory (for example: she/he was SPK or not? exactly how many from SPK became later RAF, few or many? why if RAF rejected SPK, some sources claim SPK became/was RAF?). How to choose the right source? is the risk forbidden per
379:
they said that Krist. and other guy "gemacht haben soll" the murder of the german attorney general Siegfried Buback. But from the same source Krist. was not related, nor accused, nor legally prosecuted neither sentenced for that crime, as you can read
3227:
Actually the article about red army faction members has an advice warning that it is very bad referenced although it deals a lot of times on living people, even the part dealing with SPK has a lot of names without any reference and in the talk page I
2013:. I'm looking into some other sources as well that provide a retrospective analysis, but Claudio's sources present the strongest statements I have found so far contradicting the alleged SPK/RAF linkage that was popular in press reports at the time. --
1086:
weight to the fact that some SPK members subsequently joined the RAF, and should restrict itself to high-quality publications. However, I cannot support you in your argument that the SPK perspective should be the only one represented, as that is
520:
fails to provide any source to validate it. I've exahustively looked for it, but it is not there. And perhaps you already realized that it lacks everywhere, as it is not in Rubin's book neither in other books claiming the same assertion. Is it a
2109:
1170:
Well, at the least the fact that the Hubers were arrested and imprisoned should be in the article, and also what they were convicted of. This, after all, led to the SPK being dissolved. Not mentioning this would be like having an article about
1443:
I will keep lurking here from time to time waiting for any news. Please do not try to hide my last answers in a different section. And please ask the SPK website's admins to remove any threat against the Spanish Knowledge's admins. Thank you.
3467:
Therefore I have to documment here the thing, not to repeat nothing. As far as I can read and understand, the SPK-patient never mentioned his complete name at wikipedia; anyone is allowed to confirm by him/herself, as there is the archive:
3102:). That talk page already contains pretty much the same kind of accusations, so basically repeating the same message one more time would seem unnecessary. Also, trying to include a legal threat by any means is something I would qualify as "
3026:, as well as cross-wiki issues which may be relevant or not here in the English language Knowledge. All of this is a pretty long discussion. However, I will now move to a more specific subject, which is the reason I'm writing this message.
1178:
I would support you in that the article should not state that the SPK was a terrorist organisation. I think the sources that you have brought to the table back you up in this regard. However, from what I have read, it seems undisputed that
2050:
On the other hand, the quote "By all accounts—including the admission last week of a West German Embassy spokesman in Washington—SPC was fairly harmless" does not really mean that much. I would agree that it was "fairly harmless" as per
4117:
Corollary: one should not worry at all if all the wikipedia turns into a community of 9 users against 7 users. If one chose to add or subtract those numbers is irrelevant but a case of a negligible quantity or a huge soap bubble. --
528:
claim mrs.C.R. was not from SPK but from RAF. Each source states she was arrested on march/1972 not in july/1971 when all SPK patients were certainly arrested. Also I could not find any source claiming she was sentenced because of
3581:
On the other hand, suggesting people are spying and adding yet again the words "hostile", "spurious" and "mendacious", as well as "perpetrator" (referring to a Knowledge editor), is one more major breach of wikiquette. One more.
538:
1663:
and support all the facts of my very conservative proposal which is strictly full of facts and empy of any allegation on SPK; and I also provided non-SPK sources with some illustration about histeria, persecution, jail and
3058:
Once I pointed out that it was in fact a legal threat and that it didn't belong in a talk page, he replaced the quote with a simple link to the specific edition of that talk page containing the legal threat, claiming that
3202:, even against the WP policies about living people although he was warned that it was causing serious damage to this people. What you should consider a legal threat, a harrasment and a very serious misconduct is that
2979:
Just to give a little context on the SPK, it is a group which had already caused a fair amount of trouble both in the Spanish and in the English Knowledge projects around 2004-2006 through vandalism, trolling (like in
2069:
would probably be more useful. However, I will have to consider any self-published source such as the aforementioned book ("SPK Krankheit im Recht") and others that Claudio has proposed as more than likely propaganda.
2313:
movement' has been emphatically rejected also by the SPK. SPK even attacks the anti-psyichiatry movement as a reformist medical-movement, leaded by doctors who remained being doctors and part of the iatro-capitalism.
1790:
Let me ask: what has SPK to do with the RAF members notoriety? Is this the RAF entrie or the SPK one? At any rate, none from SPK "did move across" to the RAF. If few from SPK were later a member of RAF, it happened
1501:
Let me ask: what has SPK to do with the RAF members notoriety? Is this the RAF entrie or the SPK one? At any rate, none from SPK "did move across" to the RAF. If few from SPK were later a member of RAF, it happened
1205:
Let me ask: what has SPK to do with the RAF members notoriety? Is this the RAF entrie or the SPK one? At any rate, none from SPK "did move across" to the RAF. If few from SPK were later a member of RAF, it happened
2769:
2243:
2084:
previous subsection (which had been answered by me) and copied it again in a new section. He also likes editing his own comments, arguably so that it seems that I'm answering to something else than his own comment.
2040:
1939:
1658:
1303:
953:
1965:. All those non-SPK sources were provided in the references of my proposal as you can check again. Therefore certainly I will remain convinced that sort of ridiculous idiotism: forcing to include the names of the
3313:
1995:
1936:
1655:
1300:
4608:. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose
4973:
4895:
4822:
4749:
364:
I also noticed that spanish wikipedians asked you to translate some articles from Der Spiegel to source its article about SPK. Is Der Spiegle a reliable source? Here some examples which you should consider:
3130:
It appears to me that this user has certainly crossed the boundaries of acceptable behavior. In my opinion, their overall behavior of making personal attacks, nasty assumptions of bad faith (accusing you of
2990:- I could add more links if you want, although they're not really central to the subject I'd like to talk about). The SPK insists that any material linking it, or even some of its historical members, to the
1009:
Do you have info on the event described in some sources as the suicide of a patient in April 1971? I note this suicide is disputed on the SPK website, but without further detail being given. What happened?
3626:
different edit summaries that you had made your "last/last comment here/last comment in this thread". I'm kind of not believing that the one above is truly your last comment either, you know? Last comment
3779:
3. In the euthanasia article, I have included and referenced the following historical fact: the american euthanasia movement supported euthanasia arguing eugenics grounds and they also supported coercive
3549:
Moreover, actually in the SPK-site says nothing about revealing those wikipedian's data there, but it says the SPK knows this data, so it is allowed to provide those wikipedian' data to anyone interested
675:
1859:
is established by sources, and a significant proportion of sources writing about the SPK cover this aspect. Basically, if Knowledge follows its basic policies, the article should reflect these sources:
1574:
is established by sources, and a significant proportion of sources writing about the SPK cover this aspect. Basically, if Knowledge follows its basic policies, the article should reflect these sources:
1237:
is established by sources, and a significant proportion of sources writing about the SPK cover this aspect. Basically, if Knowledge follows its basic policies, the article should reflect these sources:
742:
At present practically nothing in the Spanish article is properly sourced. The first source is the SPK"s own website, whose use as a source is not ideal, but defensible as long as it is compatible with
2526:
No problem with dropping the leftist descriptor. :) Sartre is quite well known enough and has his own biography; deleted above. That there was support from Foucault, at least at one time, is mentioned
596:
1961:
absolutely different than RAF crying for doctors, health and better confinement conditions, as you could also realize. Certainly those facts were not included in my proposal but they could be read in
1677:
absolutely different than RAF crying for doctors, health and better confinement conditions, as you could also realize. Certainly those facts were not included in my proposal but they could be read in
4957:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
4879:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
4806:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
4733:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
2393:; would you say that the summary is inaccurate? I don't mind limiting it to capitalism, if that is what the SPK themselves said; but didn't the other elements Parker mentions play into it as well? --
411:
Thanks, these are good sources, and I'll do my best to see to it that the comments by Sartre, the German Embassy, and those about the philosophical proximity to Szasz etc. get representation. As for
201:, where admin-user Sabbut published a private name of a person, obviously without his/her consent and accused him/her of "threats". Exactly the same procedure was used also in the english wikipedia:
4358:
Claudio, I am on the same side as you in utterly condemning the Nazi action, but trying not to write in an overly emotive or repetitive way as well as staying close to the original German wording.
3631:
further comments after you make your last one. Either make your last comment and mean it, or don't continue to say it's your last comment when it clearly isn't. It appears to some as disingenuous.
3383:
Right, it wasn't necessary for Sabbut to continue this, ClaudioSantos said they will not comment on the talk page anymore and I would encourage both users to disengage from each other completely.
4527:
reverting actions of a blocked sickpuppept evading his block, that has used 9 sockpuppets to circumvent the rules and evade his block, it has nothing to do with a non-neutral point of view. -- --
3346:
I have nothing else to comment to that. For the rest, about the sources I also will not add anything because there was said enough since months ago, even by other users than me (see for example:
536:
2054:(Global Terrorism Database, endorsed by the University of Maryland), which only mentions a few violent incidents attributed to the SPK, but that's not the same thing as saying it was "harmless".
526:
134:
was ever sentenced nor imprisoned for that allegedely "plan to bomb a president train". If you don't mind I could also mention here some concerns about the other sources and affirmations ("
160:
To be honest, I would have to do some more research on this. I am not familiar with the history, or alternative narratives. Which languages do you speak? I could help with German sources.
1970:
or doubt about SPK current existence? That should be a consequence of those non-SPK sources claiming and spreading twaddle about SPK, therefore, not your fault, and since you learned the
3181:
published a materia claiming false allegations against SPK claiming theese people were terrorists, an allegation that finally had to be hide, as it was demonstrated that terrorism is a
2944:
2939:
4943:
2948:
3136:
here and I will report it to ANI, or you can do so yourself; either option is recommended, especially given the user's history of disruption both here and at the Spanish Knowledge.
3731:: ... Another form of refactoring is to move a thread of entirely personal commentary between two editors to the talk page of the editor who started the off-topic discussion. ...
3477:
For a change, also as far as I can read and understand, in the SPK-site there was never revealed nor even re-published the data (names, jobs, places, etc.) of those wikipedians (
2935:
1141:
And let me propose even more questions: If actually those sources which mention some names of people from SPK who later were RAF, explicity do so in order to claim the alleged
1401:
Let me ask: if there are a lot of sources which show that RAF-Ulrike Meinhof studied in University of Münster, why it is not reflected in the respective wikipedia article ?
319:
3701:
Well, I wanted not to add more noise to the topic. So I wrong assumed your permission to delete it as I was answering your request on your talk page and it was off-topic.--
1974:, then should not be a trouble too, at least not for you. And yes Jayen, I also found a waste of time translating those Spiegel articles for the same reasons I exposed. --
3061:
Libelous material causes serious damage to living people. Aggresively warning on libelous material is not a threat, even per WP:No_legal_threats#What_is_not_a_legal_threat
1810:
and you could clearly contrast the warfare of the SPK, patients figthing pro-illness and against doctors, being absolutely different than RAF crying for doctors and health
1517:
and you could clearly contrast the warfare of the SPK, patients figthing pro-illness and against doctors, being absolutely different than RAF crying for doctors and health
3776:
2. In the euthanasia article, I have included and referenced the following historical fact: the euthanasia movement was intertwined and linked with the eugenics movement.
565:
All that letter was written in english, as it was a long letter to an American writer who has written a book based on it, as you also may find although not in fine print.
4245:
4241:
3489:
But actually nobody had nor has to worry about revealing the mentioned wikipedians' data, because their data, even included the very illustrated data of the mentioned
3422:
mention of that same name was unnecessary and could be harmful, I deleted it. Others cannot say the same: the threat to reveal Ascánder and Tirithel's real identities
2203:, existente desde 1965. El SPK ha declarado su auto-disolución en julio de 1971 como retirada estratégica. Luego el SPK ha continuado existiendo sin interrupción como
913:, existente desde 1965. El SPK ha declarado su auto-disolución en julio de 1971 como retirada estratégica. Luego el SPK ha continuado existiendo sin interrupción como
443:
I'd be interested in your view of the present German and English articles on the SPK, just to help me get my bearings with what is fine and where you have concerns. --
130:. This book as any other with such accusation, fails to provide the source and the context of such an accusation although presented as a fact. Perhaps you should read
4670:
Who are "we"? Royal "we" speaks loudly about egotism. Or does it have to do about demons like Legion and such? Well at any rate it really does not matter much to me.
3217:
they assumed bad faith and accused of sock-puppetry another user because he also noticed that I was right and also deleted the contentious unreferenced material (see
3223:
Therefore, the minimal to do is to warn that a content is causing serious damage to this people and is perhaps just a bad joke to assumme that I am threating anyone
373:, they referes to the mentioned Krist. as a "terrorist" but as you could read before: each charge against her was dropped, and none of those charges was terrorism.
2111:, a retrospective in a German historical journal, but it only has snippet view in Google Books, which makes it difficult and time-consuming to get the whole text.
3195:(as this policy explicity says "defamatory material", is it a legal threat? am I legal threating when I just refers in the same words of this policy? whatever).
987:
I appreciate what you're trying to do, but would point out that this version does not mention Huber's arrest, conviction and sentence (which is mentioned in the
3239:
on SPK, is mendacious (false) and spurious (not-genuine) and as warned by that people, it is hostile because it is causing serious damage to that living people
58:
I've done some work on the SPK lead (including some grammar fixes); please review. I've found a useful source that I hadn't come across before; have a look:
3315:
says the SPK was "fairly harmless" (which does not really mean anything relevant to Knowledge, as "fairly harmless" is not the same as "totally harmless").
2052:
1988:
Thanks, Claudio. Sabbut, there are some worthwhile sources here among those that Claudio has brought to the table, and they do bear his points out; notably
222:
I've refactored the name on that talk page; there is no need to have it there. I agree that the edit by Unfortunate was "unfortunate", i.e. unsourced and a
3475:
who published the complete patient's name in wikipedia, and Sabbut is also the one claiming that revealing that sort of data is a "terrorist-like tactic".
3511:. Fortunatelly that hostile paragraph was corrected later on, of course not by the perpetrator. Perhaps I have revealed too much data, but now I can say,
1363:
Truth is, she is listed at the very end of the list, whereas all the other notable alumni are ordered alphabetically, so I think I will correct that bit.
1183:
members of the SPK -- but certainly NOT Huber himself, as the SPK's founder -- did move across to the RAF, and later became highly notable RAF members. --
4408:
Okay, well I'm not going to get excited about it. The main thing for me was to translate the article into English and add to the sum of human knowledge.
2857:
711:
disperse data/events are being placed together in the WP-article, joined without any other criteria but with the criteria/opinion of the wikipedia author
427:, that does not mean that Knowledge can or should ignore subsequent reports in equally reliable sources showing that statements, or what amounts to mere
279:. He has signed with his name in both places. However, it is true that he only signed with his given name and not with his last name, and even though he
3554:
It's quite nice to know that it's acceptable and justifiable to threat to reveal Wikipedians' true identities to anyone who asks for such information (
3433:
For my part, I don't think there's anything more to say (or "chatter", as Claudio just said), so I will end the discussion here. Thanks for your help.
4647:
Welcome back. But we do not welcome back your activism. Please leave that at home and only add neutral information, based on reliable sources conform
2145:
other editors' talk page posts is not considered good form; it's best to leave them in the place where the other editor originally put them. Best, --
4502:
seemed less than neutral to me, so I removed it for now. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on
4445:
3853:. If decision was based on 9 users who have supported the ban, then suggestions and opinions from 7 users were junked, they who opposed the ban. --
2527:
2219:, con un prólogo del fundador del SPK, Huber, WD, y un prólogo de Jean-Paul Sartre. Algunas de sus publicaciones se encuentran en su página oficial
929:, con un prólogo del fundador del SPK, Huber, WD, y un prólogo de Jean-Paul Sartre. Algunas de sus publicaciones se encuentran en su página oficial
3215:. Unsourced material that for example accused people of terrorism but material that for instance finally they deleted from wikipedia.es but after
2390:
3241:. At any rate, now I will not make any edit on those talk pages exactly as I am not doing any edition on the respective articles since weeks. --
2976:
The user ClaudioSantos seems to be pretty much a single-purpose account on behalf of the Socialist Patients' Collective (also known as the SPK).
4566:
3351:
3290:
3170:
1997:("By all accounts—including the admission last week of a West German Embassy spokesman in Washington—SPC was fairly harmless.") The publishers (
1325:
aside and don't you worry due my last (anti)rethoric question against high private and established institutions such as pride and arrogance. --
490:
Yes. The text is clearly a translation; is there a German original version of the "long letter"? Has it been cited by any third-party source? --
199:
2530:; as his is a well-known name, I think it might be worth including, even if Sartre's support was somewhat more substantial than Foucault's. --
1082:
I agree with you that the article should be conservative, especially where facts are disputed by different sources, that it should not assign
3001:
As for ClaudioSantos himself, he has been using unnecessarily strong wording towards me (for instance, I can quote from this single message,
4995:
4909:
4836:
4763:
4633:
4162:
Was the philosopher Diogenes eating lentils when he saw the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by means of flattering the king.
3095:
2931:
2618:, that was founded in 1965. The SPK declared its self-dissolution in July 1971 as a strategic withdrawal but the SPK continued to exist as
2009:) are highly reputable academic publishers. The continued existence of the "Patientenfront", the SPK's 1973 reincarnation, was attested to
50:
Friederich Ralf Baptist, Lutz Taufer y sieglinde Hoffman Elyzabeth Von Diyck no eran SPK pero del comite para presos al que se habían ido.
2386:
2851:
1510:. And every RAF member, even those who years before were SPK, but any member of RAF was compelled to absolutely break with SPK positions
1214:. And every RAF member, even those who years before were SPK, but any member of RAF was compelled to absolutely break with SPK positions
198:
published accusations of "terrorism-like tactics" refering to those people from SPK. And I'm also concerned with this sort of behaviour:
345:
Das Info -Briefe von Gefangenen aus der RAF 1973-1977, Dokumente herausgegeben von Pieter H. Bakker Schut, Malik Verlag, p.49 and p.104
4050:
I do not encourage double standards at all. Can you explain to me why you said this?--Jimbo Wales (talk) 08:43, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
3305:
I don't find anything wrong with Magister's message. Maybe a little harsh, but not nearly as harsh as the ones Claudio usually writes.
3289:
harmful for that person. Anyway, once I was warned of this possible harm I edited my original message and hid the corresponding diffs.
3221:
and until now they even desetimated the proposals of this other user to correct the wikipedia article about SPK in the es.wikipedua.
3578:) Revealing Ingeborg Muhler's name is also wrong according to him, so maybe the name should be deleted once and for all, I suppose.
2703:
2667:
681:? could you find the original source for that issues, for example a source for the train issue, in order to ensure that it is not a
72:
3544:
Just to point out one more thing (Sorry, but I feel I have the right to defend myself from Claudio's extremely nasty accusations).
2342:
You're right about the point with illness not being restricted to mental illness. That was my mistake, and should be corrected. --
4352:
3218:
1688:
which show that RAF-Ulrike Meinhof studied in University of Münster, why it is not reflected in the respective wikipedia article
1321:
which show that RAF-Ulrike Meinhof studied in University of Münster, why it is not reflected in the respective wikipedia article
3503:
4991:
4905:
4832:
4759:
4629:
4495:
3357:
that I will not have to answer again to any Sabbut comment here, as I suspect he will just repeat his same repeated things. -
3015:
878:); but when emerged any contradiction, be it in the wording, I just prefered and I suggest to heed and follow the SPK version:
3840:
3302:
their addresses, of course without their consent, in a message published in 2005 and which has remained untouched since then.
535:
she was tortured ("zwangswaise narkotisiert") by prison doctors and there were legal procedures/trial against those doctors
186:
Any source claiming that members from SPK were terrorist should be considered a dubious non-reliable source: that crime did
4165:
Aristippus said to him: "If you had learned to be submissive to the king, you would not have to eat that crap of lentils."
2115:
is welcome to refine his posts prior to your or my having replied to them (although note that posts should not be changed
344:
3200:
published contentious material dealing with living people but without any reference and avoid this material to be deleted
4966:
4888:
4815:
4742:
2902:
2897:
4620:
describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to
3172:. Here I don't want to remember who was the user who abusively published also his self-made picture of the building of
3113:
So now I decide to stop a moment, avoid getting into a full-fledged edit war and ask for a third opinion on this mess.
3083:
After that, once I pointed out that there was nothing that could possibly be qualified as "hostile" or "mendacious" in
1120:
The entrie is limited to those facts, it does not include any perspective nor any allegation -true or false- about SPK.
4978:
4900:
4827:
4754:
4625:
3820:
Per the ANI discussion - There is community consensus for an expanded topic ban on your editing. The exact terms are:
3103:
3018:(which, in my opinion, ClaudioSantos has pretty much changed into an advertisement) and on members of the SPK such as
2906:
2875:
2298:, if you read all its documentation you will easily find that SPK emphatically reject a distinction between so called
1428:...in a statement in its first or second paragraph like "some members of this university became guerilla-RAF-members"?
273:
4494:. Knowledge is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a
2104:
I think we can exclude any self-published sources making potentially self-serving claims from our consideration, per
1804:
1511:
1215:
3490:
1934:
1653:
1298:
312:
195:
139:
4046:
I do agree: these are double-standars and Jimbo encourages them. -- ClaudioSantos¿? 19:07, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
2630:). For the SPK, illness really exists as an undeniable fact and it is caused by the capitalist system. The SPK is
1745:
And yes Jayen, I also found a waste of time translating those Spiegel articles for the same reasons I exposed. --
4302:
3836:
2973:
I think a third opinion is necessary as I'm involved in a situation that has been degenerating into an edit war.
2893:
2863:
2058:
2006:
1894:
contemporaneous sources; we should ideally use sources written later on, that analyse events retrospectively. --
1609:
contemporaneous sources; we should ideally use sources written later on, that analyse events retrospectively. --
1272:
contemporaneous sources; we should ideally use sources written later on, that analyse events retrospectively. --
1061:
became RAF and that SPK was barely nothing else but a terrorist group, which is a claim denied by other sources(
2610:
in February 1970, by Dr. Wolfgang Huber. The kernel of the SPK's ideological program is summated in the slogan
126:
really a reliable, verifiable source for such an accusation. For me it seems like a gossip never sourced but a
1417:
1408:
1348:
3493:, is already revealed in a lot of well known very public sites all around the web, included the own wikipedia
1927:
Thus Jayen, I think there is no lack of sources for your concerns in your last comment ("...I sympathise..."
1646:
Thus Jayen, I think there is no lack of sources for your concerns in your last comment ("...I sympathise..."
1308:
and support all the facts of my proposal, and I also provided non-SPK sources for persecution, jail, torture:
1133:
allegations which were deleted from Brockhaus and dtv encyclopedias)? And, at any rate, those allegations do
3037:
ClaudioSantos restored a text containing a legal threat that had already been erased several times in 2005 (
4024:
1948:; and I also provided non-SPK sources with some illustration about histeria, persecution, jail and torture
3292:
If I hadn't been able to do that, I would have asked anyone else. So there's no need to assume bad faith.
2321:
illness collective as being the core of its revolutionary concept, so I think it should not be supressed.
4954:
4876:
4803:
4730:
4059:
4020:
3564:
2236:
SPK/PF(H), Colectivo Socialista de Pacientes (SPK) Frente de Pacientes (PF), Lista de fechas, en resumen
946:
SPK/PF(H), Colectivo Socialista de Pacientes (SPK) Frente de Pacientes (PF), Lista de fechas, en resumen
568:
There are tons of documents full of details and contexts, denying such sort of gossips. Could you read:
4168:
To which Diogenes replied: "If you had learned to eat lentils, you would not have to flatter the king."
138:
from SPK bacem RAF", etc.). PD: a retoric question: should we consider SPK as terrorists just because
555:"...the doctors behind the authorities put the things from the feet to the head in the case of SPK..."
4658:
4576:
4513:
4503:
4413:
4363:
4298:
3951:
2195:
en febrero de 1970, por el Paciente de Frente Wolfgang Huber, WD, Dr.médico. El programa del SPK era
1941:
denies the relation between RAF and SPK and a lot of twaddle; also this one denies RAF-SPK conection:
1803:
who years before were SPK, but any member of RAF was compelled to absolutely break with SPK positions
1660:
denies the relation between RAF and SPK and a lot of twaddle; also this one denies RAF-SPK conection:
1305:
denies the relation between RAF and SPK and a lot of twaddle; also this one denies RAF-SPK conection:
905:
en febrero de 1970, por el Paciente de Frente Wolfgang Huber, WD, Dr.médico. El programa del SPK era
3954:
prohibits any user to promote its philosophical, political or therapeutical causes and opinions. --
1685:, then should not be a trouble too, at least not for you. Let me ask: if there are a lot of sources
1318:, then should not be a trouble too, at least not for you. Let me ask: if there are a lot of sources
693:
Let me notice, that the current procedure used to write the WP's article about SPK, is basically to
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116:
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2548:
Ok, so, let me meditate about your last proposed version and I will answer as soon as possible. --
2181:
891:
861:: I think yes, it has a lot of major factual errors and factoids. Have you compare that with this:
595:
I am sorry for the slow replies, I am currently working 18-hour shifts. The Hitler's Children book
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is allowed to provide those links full of details and even pictures, to anyone interested or needy
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Hostile and mendacious material against patients from SPK, causes serious damage to living people
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2020:
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Oh, I see you just edited your post as though you had originally meant to ask for something else.
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editor of the SPK website to remove immediately the threat against the Spanish Knowledge sysops.
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175:
146:
93:
3508:
of a current SPK-lawyer inserted in a hostile paragraph which recently even ashamed another user
2271:
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941:
624:. I haven't found any sources yet saying what exactly Roll was charged with, or convicted of. --
2987:
2984:
2809:
Gary Genosko, Deleuze and Guattari: critical assessments of leading philosophers, p.480-481,798
2256:
Gary Genosko, Deleuze and Guattari: critical assessments of leading philosophers, p.480-481,798
1946:
my very conservative proposal which is strictly full of facts and empy of any allegation on SPK
1128:
about SPK being a terrorist group linked to RAF, the data which should be inserted, despite of
1028:
About details and contexts I have to recommend again the SPK site: www.spkpfh.de, for example:
966:
Gary Genosko, Deleuze and Guattari: critical assessments of leading philosophers, p.480-481,798
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Félix Guattari, Molecular revolution: psychiatry and politics, 1984, ISBN: 0140551603, p.67-68
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Félix Guattari, Molecular revolution: psychiatry and politics, 1984, ISBN: 0140551603, p.67-68
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1998:
962:
Félix Guattari, Molecular revolution: psychiatry and politics, 1984, ISBN: 0140551603, p.67-68
744:
69:
3308:
Finally, as for Claudio's "proofs" that SPK had nothing to do with the RAF, which are listed
2694:
548:. Then you succeed in finding the events around president Heinemann and SPK, as described in
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4872:
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63:
4965:, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The
4887:, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The
4814:, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The
4741:, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The
4616:, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The
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about Becker's book do not readily dismiss it, at least when it comes to facts and figures.
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If you have anything that pertains directly to or invalidates the statements in those two
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will be more likely to be adopted by the Spanish editors for sourcing article content. --
1590:
will be more likely to be adopted by the Spanish editors for sourcing article content. --
1253:
will be more likely to be adopted by the Spanish editors for sourcing article content. --
4240:
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at
3950:
a philosophical, political and therapeutical practice, then it has to be mentioned that
3679:
Now, wasn't that easier and more appropriate than deleting what I wrote twice? Sheesh...
2748:
SPK/PF(H), SOZIALISTISCHES PATIENTENKOLLEKTIV (SPK), PATIENTENFRONT (PF), List of dates
533:, ¿could you?. But certainly it should be more important to realize that sources claim:
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3572:
something I can understand, which is why I reverted and hid my edit just a little later
3567:
3303:
1955:
the warfare of the SPK imprisoned patients, figthing pro-illness and against doctors, (
1671:
the warfare of the SPK imprisoned patients, figthing pro-illness and against doctors, (
1352:
1088:
277:
2495:
2414:
So, fixing my blunders (thanks for pointing them out!), would this be okay as a lead?
2317:
misrepresents SPK ideology. And also you will find that SPK repeatedly claims to be a
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51:
45:
37:
29:
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3176:(illness in right - pathopractic with lawyers, part of the PF/SPK(H)); but certainly
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2726:
PF/SPK(H), Text for entries on the SPK in the Encyclopedias of Brockhaus, Duden, etc.
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2532:
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PF/SPK(H), Text for entries on the SPK in the Encyclopedias of Brockhaus, Duden, etc.
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2015:
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PF/SPK(H), Text for entries on the SPK in the Encyclopedias of Brockhaus, Duden, etc.
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717:. Certainly that is not the history neither the theory of SPK, but it is certainly a
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4287:. I want you to know that I have attempted to address this personal shortcoming at
4648:
4188:
3896:
3482:
3169:
and with out his permission and then used his privileges to delete his contribution
1035:
848:
Yes, correct, that is the SPK text for encyclopedias, which is also included here:
718:
165:
4929:
4854:
4781:
4708:
2965:
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2300:
mental' and 'physical' illnesses. They even empghatically said: illness as being
705:, etc.) and marginally with SPK, contradicted by other sources and not to forget:
272:
Just to point out that the name of the SPK member is the same one who vandalized
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said that "SPK (is well known back from 2005) from using terrorist-like tactics"
3106:". In fact, I would qualify his attitude throughout this story in the same way.
1717:
It would indeed be ridiculous to mention in the first or second paragraph that
320:
Connie Page "Vermont Town in Uproar over Baader-Meinhof Terrorist Who Wasn’t,"
36:
Juicio sin garantías, prohibido contacto con abogados y exclusión de abogados.
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Have you succeed in finding the events around president Heinemann and SPK in
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3665:. Sorry if it was some confusing to read "last comment" too many times. --
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Analysis on RAF comuniques and letters about SPK. RAF distance against SPK:
3658:
was because of thecnical matters, as I have to edit from a sort of mobile.
2736:
2389:, however, rather than Huber). Parker has a reference to an "insane world"
2039:
Of course, a source attributed to the SPK like this one Claudio presented (
1294:
Hi Jayen, I think there is no lack of sources for your concerns. About this
359:
276:
and threatened to reveal the true identity of sysops Ascánder and JorgeGG
168:; but I also know that the quality of terrorism literature is variable. --
3088:
3030:
2889:
2758:
2239:
2235:
949:
945:
4969:
describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
4891:
describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
4818:
describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
4745:
describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
4486:
4244:
regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is
3662:
one and only one comment: the one which would be the last in this thread
2797:
2251:
1949:
1665:
1309:
1054:
1044:
961:
706:
570:
463:
4947:
are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
4007:
1051:
1032:
549:
470:
131:
4076:
I must certify an absolute absence of administration just replaced by
3570:) which is at stake, then not only is it not acceptable to reveal it (
2725:
2227:
937:
849:
333:? but you may ask yourself how can be that true if RAF explicity said:
230:). Do you have a link or source for the Guma/Sartre comments? Best, --
4030:
988:
862:
853:
767:
Yes. Also encyclopaedias like Brokhaus and DTV have decided to do so
3191:, so it was certainly defamatory content that should be deleted per
3091:, which is a disambiguation page), he reverted the whole discussion
2781:
Ian Parker, Deconstructing psychopathology, ISBN=9780803974814 p.120
2747:
2248:
Ian Parker, Deconstructing psychopathology, ISBN=9780803974814 p.120
1959:) by radical means such as unconditional and unlimited hungerstrike,
1675:) by radical means such as unconditional and unlimited hungerstrike,
1029:
958:
Ian Parker, Deconstructing psychopathology, ISBN=9780803974814 p.120
866:
356:
226:
BLP violation (even according to the version of WP:BLP that existed
2737:
Proposal for a text for international use concerning SPK. Overview.
2445:
The SPK considered mental and physical illness to be caused by the
2044:
3132:
2759:
SPK Turn illness into a Weapon, 1993, ISBN 3-926491-17-5, 240 pp.
2638:
with prefaces by both the founder of the SPK, Wolfgang Huber, and
2385:
There is a reference to an "ill society" on the spk website (in a
707:
data and sources denied by legal procedures from the people of SPK
4604:
is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Knowledge
3167:
published in wikipedia the identity of a patient against his will
4982:. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add
3556:"anyone" means "anyone" - not only "the authority" or whatsoever
2211:. Para el SPK la enfermedad es la realidad existente innegable,
1156:
I hope, I do not look rhetoric or mayeutic due my questions. --
921:. Para el SPK la enfermedad es la realidad existente innegable,
4972:
If you wish to participate in the 2019 election, please review
4894:
If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review
4821:
If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review
4748:
If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review
3560:
who already revealed it himself -OK, only partly- in Knowledge
3213:
WP:BLP#Remove_unsourced_or_poorly_sourced_contentious_material
3084:
3007:), which have a specific meaning and could be thought of as a
1116:
the SPK internet site? Is there any source claiming otherwise?
2614:, which remains actively practiced. The SPK emerged from the
516:
It should be noticed that on claims about president's train,
4448:
at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
4430:
2240:
SPK-Hacer de la enfermedad un arma, 1997, ISBN 3-926491-21-3
950:
SPK-Hacer de la enfermedad un arma, 1997, ISBN 3-926491-21-3
2232:
PF/SPK(H), Propuesta para un texto sobre el SPK. Un resumen
1124:
So let me ask more questions: Are the defamatory and false
942:
PF/SPK(H), Propuesta para un texto sobre el SPK. Un resumen
561:"...in order to-heal-illness-by-killing-those-who-are-ill."
191:
it was a political persecution against those people of SPK.
3231:
abundant reliable-verifiable sources (collected also with
3109:
So...I revert his message, he reverts my revert and so on.
801:, correct? (I've read the above letter from dtv.) Best, --
699:
dispersed data taken from dispersed sources here and there
642:
Here some snippets distancing Roll and others from Huber:
3566:
where he boasts about his acts of vandalism in Knowledge
2983:, in Spanish), propaganda and false claims (for example,
2770:
Trevor Blake, SPK - Krankheit Im Recht, ISBN: 3926491264.
2244:
Trevor Blake, SPK - Krankheit Im Recht, ISBN: 3926491264.
1855:
I sympathise, but Knowledge is set up in such a way that
1773:
Hi Jayen, let us back to our discussion about SPK entrie:
1570:
I sympathise, but Knowledge is set up in such a way that
1480:
Hi Jayen, let us back to our discussion about SPK entrie:
1233:
I sympathise, but Knowledge is set up in such a way that
954:
Trevor Blake, SPK - Krankheit Im Recht, ISBN: 3926491264.
123:
Hi there. Thanks for you efforts. May I ask you: is this
4941:
is now open until 23:59 on Monday, 2 December 2019. All
3895:
Combativeness is not what is needed. Self-criticism is.
799:
784:
Have you found the entrie aimed to Brockhaus, etc. ? --
4953:
is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the
4875:
is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the
4802:
is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the
4729:
is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the
4073:
3574:), but it's also not acceptable to revert and hide it (
3509:
3506:
3494:
3354:
3349:
3347:
3296:
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3099:
3092:
3078:
3064:
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3002:
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1971:
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indeed has Ulrike Meinhof as one of its notable alumni.
1405:
1315:
1113:
930:
227:
202:
194:
Off topic: well, for my part I'm really concerned that
143:
4654:
4572:
4509:
3235:) that demonstrates the current material published by
3204:
an user has accused current people of PF/SPK as being
599:
Roll was "ex-SPK", i.e. a former member of the SPK. --
2434:
in February 1970, by Wolfgang Huber, a doctor at the
2088:
it here with more detail once his block has expired.
2047:) would naturally deny any link between SPK and RAF.
1991:("It was falsely linked to the Red Army Fraction"),
3768:This is a summary of my recent edits at wikipedia:
423:is a "reliable source" -- by Knowledge's criteria.
52:
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-13501199.html
46:
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-43800954.html
38:
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-42762996.html
30:
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-43019841.html
3558:), but if it's the name of a vandal from the SPK (
3426:addresses is still published on the SPK's website.
1149:; then would not be the insertion of those names,
701:; most sources dealing mainly with organizations (
4596:You appear to be eligible to vote in the current
4444:Message added 17:03, 25 June 2013 (UTC). You can
4437:Hello, ClaudioSantos. You have new messages at
3189:even exist in the time of the trials against SPK
2361:think that is okay to state. Would you agree? --
415:, although I don't believe everything I read in
258:see a summary of this off-topic at the bottom...
4242:Knowledge:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
4173:From: El canto del pájaro by Anthony de Mello.
4160:
3726:
3576:What should I have done, then - crucify myself?
3162:is not being personally attacked but certainly
2174:
1416:And my answer was clear: the article about the
1050:) -instigated by the doctors, as states the SPK
884:
337:
4671:
4528:
4375:
2652:
2650:
2624:Patients' Front/Socialist Patients' Collective
2294:The SPK's illness concept is not a concept of
1423:Now you have changed your question into this:
823:; are there any major factual errors in it? --
355:, one translation of the prologue from Sartre:
4275:I believe that at times I have been uncivil (
4013:Some bubble tea for standing up to an admin!
2304:although divided by medical-means into illnes
1089:not the premise upon which Knowledge is built
358:, but why not to read directly the SPK site:
8:
3910:collapse it, better now than too late. --
2688:
2686:
1938:sources which denie those. Also this source
1657:sources which denie those. Also this source
1302:sources which denie those. Also this source
552:, exactly in those paragraphs starting with
4283:, particularly in a few of my responses to
4263:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10294679
3513:this is my last comment here in this thread
3073:another time, he changed his wording into "
2660:R.D. Laing and the paths of anti-psychiatry
2191:) fue un colectivo de pacientes fundado en
1776:Just to remember, this was my last comment:
1483:Just to remember, this was my last comment:
1435:Well, the thing is, it is not notable that
901:) fue un colectivo de pacientes fundado en
65:R.D. Laing and the paths of anti-psychiatry
4924:
3596:
3517:I don't mind if this discussion is closed.
3387:
3261:
3140:
2816:
253:
2199:y continúa activo. El SPK ha surgido del
1953:against SPK; but there is also mentioned
1669:against SPK; but there is also mentioned
1175:, and not mentioning that he was jailed.
909:y continúa activo. El SPK ha surgido del
544:But, now let return to president's train
4268:Civility concern (at Maafa 21 talk page)
3833:The topic ban expires on April 12, 2012.
3681:
3633:
3014:There are issues on the articles on the
2606:) was a patients' collective founded in
2438:Psychiatric Clinic; it emerged from the
2430:) was a patients' collective founded in
3599:
2819:
2646:
2512:include that label in this article. --
2063:third sources which say that very thing
1396:Your original question is indeed thus:
461:Well, by now, perhaps you should read:
256:
523:WP:BLP#Avoid_gossip_and_feedback_loops
128:WP:BLP#Avoid_gossip_and_feedback_loops
4314:Thanks for sharing your concerns. --
3622:- ClaudioSantos, you've indicated in
3471:. As I said and he confirmed, it was
3414:Just to point out a couple of things:
571:http://www.spkpfh.de/Kraken_jagen.htm
464:http://www.spkpfh.de/Kraken_jagen.htm
7:
4938:2019 Arbitration Committee elections
4864:2018 Arbitration Committee elections
4861:Hello, ClaudioSantos. Voting in the
4791:2018 Arbitration Committee elections
4788:Hello, ClaudioSantos. Voting in the
4718:2017 Arbitration Committee elections
4715:Hello, ClaudioSantos. Voting in the
3341:Well, now I certainly realized that
3096:Talk:Members of the Red Army Faction
2932:Talk:Members of the Red Army Faction
2217:SPK – Hacer de la enfermedad un arma
1356:
927:SPK – Hacer de la enfermedad un arma
550:http://www.spkpfh.de/Long_Letter.htm
471:http://www.spkpfh.de/Long_Letter.htm
4452:
1799:. And every RAF member, even those
850:http://www.spkpfh.de/Gossipcide.htm
311:A link to the text from Greg Guma:
4921:ArbCom 2019 election voter message
4848:ArbCom 2018 election voter message
4775:ArbCom 2018 election voter message
4702:ArbCom 2017 election voter message
2657:Zbigniew Kotowicz (2 April 1997).
2622:, which is currently known as the
2600:Sozialistisches Patientenkollektiv
2424:Sozialistisches Patientenkollektiv
2185:Sozialistisches Patientenkollektiv
895:Sozialistisches Patientenkollektiv
863:http://www.spkpfh.de/Zeittafel.htm
670:And some sources claim she was RAF
390:so it seems a non-reliable source.
62:Zbigniew Kotowicz (2 April 1997).
14:
4622:review the candidates' statements
4080:like "trolling". Case closed. --
2178:Colectivo Socialista de Pacientes
1314:fault, and since you learned the
888:Colectivo Socialista de Pacientes
531:planning a bomb against any train
28:RAF-SPK connection never probed:
4928:
4853:
4780:
4707:
4485:
4353:Child euthanasia in Nazi Germany
4006:
2636:SPK - Turn illness into a weapon
1357:
1355:as one of its "notable alumni".
4976:and submit your choices on the
4898:and submit your choices on the
4825:and submit your choices on the
4752:and submit your choices on the
4467:
4464:
4461:
4458:
4455:
3688:
3640:
2442:which had existed since 1965.
2119:they have been replied to, per
1839:And this was your last comment:
1550:And this was your last comment:
1407:, where is the article on the
697:isolated, decontextualized and
4696:13:04, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
4665:08:58, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
4628:. For the Election committee,
4598:Arbitration Committee election
4589:ArbCom elections are now open!
3563:and fully in the same website
3491:Magister ("terrorist-tactics")
3016:Socialist Patients' Collective
2998:is usually cited as a reason.
2696:Deconstructing psychopathology
2596:Socialist Patients' Collective
2420:Socialist Patients' Collective
2197:hacer de la enfermedad un arma
1795:SPK was self-dissolved, be it
1506:SPK was self-dissolved, be it
1210:SPK was self-dissolved, be it
1143:connection between SPK and RAF
907:hacer de la enfermedad un arma
798:You mean the text included on
419:, the way Knowledge is set up
1:
5000:00:13, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
4955:Knowledge arbitration process
4914:18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
4877:Knowledge arbitration process
4841:18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
4804:Knowledge arbitration process
4731:Knowledge arbitration process
4638:14:24, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
4583:14:41, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
4553:12:48, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
4520:12:42, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
4230:13:48, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
4195:03:54, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
4148:20:38, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
4110:17:37, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
4064:13:15, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
1944:and support all the facts of
871:Take a look on the following
4768:18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
4567:Indef block appeal for Ratel
4279:) in my comments within the
4042:Question you may have missed
4034:15:39, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
3984:00:35, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
3940:18:07, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
3905:16:09, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
3883:02:33, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
3845:23:53, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
3815:23:28, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
3094:... but moved his claims to
2187:, y conocido por sus siglas
2159:10:02, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
2137:09:47, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
2098:09:28, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
2079:09:15, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
2027:02:08, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
1984:22:39, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
1908:18:50, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
1889:18:46, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
1822:05:12, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
1806:, even contact was forbidden
1755:19:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
1732:21:36, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
1702:19:50, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
1623:18:50, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
1604:18:46, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
1529:05:12, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
1513:, even contact was forbidden
1454:00:39, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
1373:09:51, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
1347:In fact, the article on the
1335:03:05, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
1286:18:50, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
1267:18:46, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
1229:05:12, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
1217:, even contact was forbidden
1197:09:11, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
1166:18:49, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
1105:16:51, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
1074:23:00, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
1024:21:06, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
1005:21:01, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
983:20:14, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
897:, y conocido por sus siglas
837:16:39, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
815:16:24, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
794:04:23, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
780:22:43, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
761:06:53, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
735:06:08, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
663:05:00, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
638:04:54, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
613:03:59, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
588:16:35, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
504:01:42, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
486:16:35, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
352:About Sartre support to SPK:
329:About allegedelly "SPK-: -->
294:12:39, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
274:Discusión:Salud/Archivo 2004
4624:and submit your choices on
4344:15:16, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
4307:15:03, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
3052:) and again by me recently
2043:, which is also advertised
457:02:39, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
404:04:02, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
244:22:37, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
218:18:35, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
182:16:09, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
155:15:54, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
5019:
4992:MediaWiki message delivery
4906:MediaWiki message delivery
4833:MediaWiki message delivery
4760:MediaWiki message delivery
4630:MediaWiki message delivery
4258:14:54, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
3849:False, there was not such
3711:20:11, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
3695:20:07, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
3675:20:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
3647:19:08, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
3592:22:23, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
3529:20:49, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
3443:10:57, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
3394:02:12, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
3367:20:56, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
3325:07:35, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
3310:at the end of this section
3268:00:53, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
2612:Turn Illness into a weapon
2007:Taylor & Francis Group
715:history and theory of SPK
435:(or elsewhere) were wrong.
4476:17:03, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
4186:Love the sig. Nice work.
3737:WP:TPO#Others.27_comments
3729:Refactoring for relevance
3251:20:54, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
3185:(legal threat?) that did
3147:20:01, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
3123:19:06, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
3104:trying to game the system
2576:18:26, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
2558:18:23, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
2544:18:21, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
2522:18:13, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
2507:18:13, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
2484:17:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
2407:17:53, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
2375:17:43, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
2356:17:41, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
2335:17:34, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
2289:17:34, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
100:16:37, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
4990:to your user talk page.
4418:20:40, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
4400:20:25, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
4368:19:48, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
3999:Some bubble tea for you!
3829:deal with said subjects.
3257:That sounds fine to me.
3246:
3087:(the page associated to
3011:, which is not allowed.
2663:. Routledge. pp. 80–81.
2268:
2041:"SPK Krankheit im Recht"
316:"Shaping the environment
114:
68:. Routledge. pp. 80–81.
3660:But it was essentially
3033:. Here goes the story:
713:, and presented as the
330:RAF" have you read this
4498:. Your recent edit to
4435:
4175:
3733:
2224:
934:
341:
318:", and also read this
4951:Arbitration Committee
4935:Hello! Voting in the
4873:Arbitration Committee
4800:Arbitration Committee
4727:Arbitration Committee
4602:Arbitration Committee
4496:neutral point of view
4434:
4289:Roscelese's talk page
4054:(from my talk page)--
3946:If self-criticism is
3485:) mentioned by Sabbut
1933:I already gave these
1652:I already gave these
1418:University of Münster
1409:University of Münster
1349:University of Münster
1297:I already gave these
852:, and in German here:
4016:Olaf the Shakinglord
3837:Georgewilliamherbert
2562:Okay, no rush. :) --
1994:(pp. 480--481), and
1114:http://www.spkpfh.de
196:MagisterMathematicae
140:MagisterMathematicae
4606:arbitration process
4272:Hi, ClaudioSantos.
3764:Topic ban expansion
3069:Once I pointed out
2994:, must be removed.
2693:Ian Parker (1995).
2602:, and known as the
2213:enfermedad efectiva
2207:, actualmente como
2205:Frente de Pacientes
2201:Frente de Pacientes
1147:SPK being terrorist
923:enfermedad efectiva
917:, actualmente como
915:Frente de Pacientes
911:Frente de Pacientes
361:which is in german?
314:and look there for
4967:arbitration policy
4889:arbitration policy
4816:arbitration policy
4743:arbitration policy
4618:arbitration policy
4446:remove this notice
4436:
4281:Maafa 21 talk page
3174:Krankheit Im Recht
3024:Brigitte Mohnhaupt
1173:Martin Luther King
1040:concept of illness
865:(also in english:
858:About this source
770:and heed SPK. --
322:The Boston Phoenix
5006:
5005:
4565:In all fairness:
4439:Talk:Right to die
4039:
4038:
3986:
3760:
3759:
3755:
3752:
3750:
3749:
3745:
3742:
3609:
3577:
3573:
3569:
3557:
3496:. Therefore also
3295:As for Magister (
3020:Sieglinde Hofmann
2992:Red Army Fraction
2830:
1999:SAGE_Publications
1972:SPK-internet-site
1923:
1920:
1918:
1844:
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1683:SPK-internet-site
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1316:SPK-internet-site
719:original research
564:
557:
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164:seems to satisfy
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3614:Last comment ...
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2699:. Sage. p. 120.
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2640:Jean-Paul Sartre
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4626:the voting page
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4500:Philip Nitschke
4483:
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4356:
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4299:Beleg Strongbow
4270:
4248:. Thank you.
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3547:Claudio says: "
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2620:Patients' Front
2616:Patients' Front
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2478:
2473:
2460:Patients' Front
2456:Michel Foucault
2440:Patients' Front
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2387:piece by Sartre
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2016:
1963:further reading
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1679:further reading
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4506:. Thank you.
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709:. Then, those
695:copy-and-paste
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3945:Addendum: -->
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2146:
2124:
2116:
2014:
1979:
1966:
1962:
1956:
1954:
1945:
1921:
1895:
1876:
1868:Google Books
1842:
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1817:
1809:
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1583:Google Books
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1246:Google Books
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1125:
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978:
935:
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429:speculations
428:
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87:
86:. Cheers, --
78:. Retrieved
64:
4979:voting page
4901:voting page
4828:voting page
4755:voting page
4490:Hello, I'm
4294:God bless!
4200:Thanks. --
4156:Fine dining
4056:Jimbo Wales
3780:euthanasia.
3473:user:Sabbut
3237:user:Sabbut
3198:User:Sabbut
3179:User:Sabbut
3165:User:Sabbut
3160:User:Sabbut
2986:, answered
2632:pro illness
2598:(in German
1872:Google News
1797:years later
1768:Back to SPK
1587:Google News
1508:years later
1469:Back on SPK
1250:Google News
1212:years later
1151:in any case
1145:as well as
1126:allegations
821:this source
683:gossip-loop
440:Der Spiegel
433:Der Spiegel
421:Der Spiegel
417:Der Spiegel
413:Der Spiegel
228:at the time
206:unfortunate
4963:topic bans
4885:topic bans
4812:topic bans
4739:topic bans
4655:The Banner
4643:Euthanasia
4614:topic bans
4573:The Banner
4510:The Banner
4492:The Banner
4410:Bermicourt
4360:Bermicourt
3300:as well as
3206:terrorists
3133:being paid
2876:block user
2870:filter log
2608:Heidelberg
2447:capitalist
2436:Heidelberg
2432:Heidelberg
2193:Heidelberg
2106:WP:SELFPUB
2059:Ian Parker
1857:due weight
1572:due weight
1235:due weight
903:Heidelberg
819:How about
745:WP:SELFPUB
687:WP-article
431:, made in
4959:site bans
4881:site bans
4808:site bans
4735:site bans
4610:site bans
4285:Roscelese
3851:consensus
3228:published
2882:block log
2628:PF/SPK(H)
2464:PF/SPK(H)
2209:PF/SPK(H)
2141:Claudio,
2121:WP:REDACT
2003:Routledge
1404:(source:
919:PF/SPK(H)
108:About SPK
4426:Talkback
4250:Qwyrxian
4069:Judgment
3479:Ascánder
3343:Sabbut's
3089:Talk:SPK
3071:WP:LEGAL
3031:Talk:SPK
3029:That is
2890:Talk:SPK
2852:contribs
2835:Nonsense
1967:very few
1801:very few
873:proposal
204:by user
4986:NoACEMM
4190:MBisanz
4021:Mailbox
3897:Carrite
3483:JorgeGG
3100:history
2945:protect
2940:history
2903:protect
2898:history
2711:1 March
2675:1 March
2250:-- --
2057:As for
1664:torture
960:-- --
546:and SPK
425:However
224:blatant
80:1 March
4678:laudio
4600:. The
4535:laudio
4382:laudio
4323:laudio
4277:WP:CIV
4209:laudio
4127:laudio
4089:laudio
3963:laudio
3948:indeed
3919:laudio
3862:laudio
3794:laudio
3584:Sabbut
3498:Sabbut
3435:Sabbut
3420:my own
3317:Sabbut
3193:WP:BLP
3115:Sabbut
2996:WP:BLP
2949:delete
2938:| ] |
2907:delete
2896:| ] |
2497:). --
2182:alemán
2143:moving
2090:Sabbut
2071:Sabbut
1724:Sabbut
1446:Sabbut
1365:Sabbut
1351:lists
1138:here?.
1130:WP:BLP
1058:WP:BLP
892:alemán
845:Well,
679:WP:BLP
286:Sabbut
17:On SPK
4684:antos
4649:WP:RS
4561:Ratel
4541:antos
4388:antos
4329:antos
4215:antos
4133:antos
4095:antos
3969:antos
3925:antos
3868:antos
3800:antos
3627:means
3388:Swarm
3262:Swarm
3183:crime
3141:Swarm
2966:views
2958:watch
2954:links
2924:views
2916:watch
2912:links
2426:, or
2270:From
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2123:). --
2117:after
1793:after
1504:after
1208:after
1084:undue
1036:WP:OR
956:--
518:Rubin
380:here:
166:WP:RS
162:Rubin
145:? --
115:From
4996:talk
4949:The
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4871:The
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4764:talk
4725:The
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4182:Hey!
4074:Then
4060:talk
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3690:talk
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3642:talk
3624:nine
3620:Note
3588:talk
3525:talk
3439:talk
3363:talk
3321:talk
3247:talk
3119:talk
3022:and
2988:here
2962:logs
2936:edit
2920:logs
2894:edit
2864:logs
2846:talk
2713:2011
2701:ISBN
2677:2011
2665:ISBN
2642:.
2594:The
2554:talk
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2454:and
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2391:here
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2180:(en
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2045:here
2011:here
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1870:and
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1698:talk
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1525:talk
1450:talk
1437:some
1369:talk
1331:talk
1248:and
1225:talk
1181:some
1162:talk
1070:talk
1031:and
979:talk
944:--
940:--
890:(en
790:talk
776:talk
731:talk
618:This
597:says
584:talk
482:talk
400:talk
376:Here
368:Here
290:talk
214:talk
151:talk
136:many
82:2011
70:ISBN
4594:Hi,
4297:--
4236:ANI
3683:Doc
3635:Doc
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3424:and
3187:not
3085:SPK
2604:SPK
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2302:one
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