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the discusions), we can then assess the pages and assign an importance (To
Derbyshire project) rating. The project is trying to systematically find all Derbyshire related articles, and ultimately improve them. We have done the Constituency ones. Any Help would be appreciated in collecting up these missing articles. The project tagging also helps in knowing about articles that can be wiki linked to from others. Any queriers leave a message on my talk page or the Derbyshire project one. Thanks, hope you can assist -
2386:. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like Germany, Italy, the Benelux countries, Iberian Peninsula, Romania, Slovenia etc, much like
893:: I wouldent bother adding {{tl:talk}} to a page unless the page has non-constructive discussions, or editors not signing comments and following guide lines etc. TOC's genearly create themselves when theres 3 section headings (i often force creation on article pages were the main text is one big block above the see also,refs & ex links sections, by placing a heading after the lead paragraph
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has submitted evidence to it. The fact that someone was quoted in the local press commenting about Engel's public meetings does not mean it is relevant to give a potted biography of them together with external links to their home page; this person is only a member of the public. The section also had excessive headings and subheadings. I made sure to preserve all useful and useable information.
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624:. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Knowledge (XXG)'s policy on images. Even if you created the image yourself, you still need to release it so Knowledge (XXG) can use it. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate
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2394:, sign up today and once the challenge starts a contest can be organized. This is a way we can target every country of Europe, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant and also sign under any country sub challenge on the page that you might contribute to! Thank you. --
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Sorry. Nothing to do with me. I'm using a public resource - IPs all over the place - terminals are left open all the time in our libraries, here, not good, and I have said and so ... I advocated a 'Red Ticket' design as you may say - they are a bit inconvenient since they often conceal the scroll bar
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Bad idea or not I'm not having comments on my talk page which have the sole intention of provoking an angry response from me. Lomcevak's responses were neither constructive nor appropriate and dealing with such a rude and belligerent user only serves to be counterproductive to what
Knowledge (XXG) is
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Pretzels, who are you referring to there? Lomcevak vandalised my talk page and was attempting to get an angry response from me, so I deleted it. Then he added another comment, which I deleted again. I will not have anyone doing that on my talk page to provoke me. If he wishes to apologise, then so be
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Lomcevak has edited from only one IP, and it's *riddled* with
Tilejoin socks (I caught a half-dozen more while I was looking into this unblock request). Moreover, there is no way to distinguish this user from Tilejoin based on the technical evidence - he looks, in every technical way, like a Tilejoin
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P.S. Oh, yes, I meant to add that if your non-anonymous contributions got caught-up in reverting the anonymous ones, then my apologies ... please try again from the (non-anonymous) base ... with the provisos above in mind. Give reasoning for the changes you want to make - with evidence and examples.
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gives more details on layout, but i just follow general format for basic articles. (same on talks with old discussions prior to project banner tagging, just add a heading to tidy up). Infoboxes should generally have all the parameters as its hard to update them if missing all missing as you have to
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Regarding coming from an anonymous IP at the
University of Central Lancashire, it's a pretty big place. There's in the order of 25,000+ students and 3,000+ members of staff, and Knowledge (XXG) edits are very common from them, myself included (I was the anonymous you are referring to, I didn't think
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My dealing with her is about ACCOUNTABILITY which we don't get through this abysmal government. That's my democratic right !! To hold the government to account through my supposed democratic representative (excuse me while I fall off my chair laughing) ... while the rest of the slaves to New Labour
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deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would would render it more in conformance with
Knowledge (XXG)'s policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that
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It would be great help to the project if you could add other
Derbyshire MPs (current and past) as well as to the category or sub cat. And add the project banner {{WikiProject Derbyshire|class=|importance=|ibox=|photo=}} by copy & pasting on to the talk page below existing banners (but above the
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It is against
Knowledge (XXG) rules to link to any commercial institution when citing a source if it does not contain information about the person in question. By all means mention her husband owns a business but AFAIK it is not within the rules of name the business or link to it unless it directly
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being given to the expenses section, with some information not accurately sourced and much completely irrelevant to a biography of one individual MP. It is not, for instance, appropriate to include a summary of the Legg inquiry here, nor to say much about the Kelly inquiry save that
Natascha Engel
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MP, according to 2nd paragraph of his bio. Till I find out how other areas are
Categorising them (to standardise Cats) I just added him to the general Politics in Derbyshire cat but really needs a Former MP category and a MPs of Derbyshire (for current ones) as sub categories of Politics Category.
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has done this blocking action once before. (See above) As I've said before, I'm working from a public facility which means it's possible that some other user on these facilities has become associated with the IP as the 'sockpuppet' of 'Tilejoin.' I'm sorry about that, but there's nothing I can do.
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Hi there
Lomcevak. You are registered with WikiProject Derbyshire and we are cleaning out our list of members. As you have not contributed to any page for over a year we have removed you as inactive. If you still want to participate in the project, just go back and add yourself again. Thank you.
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I believe we met outside the so called "meeting" on the 12th of June, (you mentioned that you have undertaken some work here). This is my best effort to track you down, if not sorry for bothering you. (Give me an email I should come up from an internet search of my name, if not we can talk in
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Thanks, Just adding a few items each session to missing categories, and wiki-linking them in other articles (were relevant) all helps to spread the web of wiki links out from . I started when looking at articles think why isent that part of this project or that and am now systematically adding
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Lomcevak, are you in love with Natascha Engel, Sam Ellis and myself? You seem to devote an awful lot of your time rambling on about them and myself, and the death of New Mandelsonianithicanispianonian Labour of New Old Republicanmandelsonianblairismism or whatever you call it. Seriously, it's
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Welcome to the project, I see your interested in politics (Natasha Engle mainly) and note you added her page to the category Politics of Derbyshire. I've not seen (there may be one) a category for all the Derbyshire MPs (and past ones) which should be a sub category to the
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I'm referring to you, Fetler - it's generally a bad idea to edit or remove other's talk page comments. You are free to do what you please on your own talk page, however deleting accusations instead of replying gives the impression to others you have something to hide. See
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I'm referring to you, Fetler - it's generally a bad idea to edit or remove other's talk page comments. You are free to do what you please on your own talk page, however deleting accusations instead of replying gives the impression to others you have something to hide. See
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generally go and get the lot as trying to remember the correct parameters for seldom used ones is a pain) as if missing when more info available its unlikely to get added (a few odd parameters that will never be used can be deleted but most should stay IMO ) Thanks -
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Which commercial institutions referred to, do you have a problem with (?) ... perhaps it's Vale Vet's that refers to David (Newton) Salisbury-Jones' wife as the (MP) Natascha ... as Engel refers to her husband in her (official) website as Dave 'the (mere) vet ?'
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Please don't disregard someone's edit because you don't agree with it. All I'm doing it attempting to get the page to adhere to the rules. You do not personally own the page, and anyone is open to edit it as they see fit. Please bear that in mind in the future.
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Such edits reduce enclopaedic information, such as the full name of Engel's husband from David (Newton) Salisbury-Jones to 'David' (in the text of the entry). Is that supposed to convey some idea of 'intimacy' between Knowledge (XXG) and Engel/Salisbury-Jones.
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Please don't disregard someone's edit because you don't agree with it. All I'm doing it attempting to get the page to adhere to the rules. You do not personally own the page, and anyone is open to edit it as they see fit. Please bear that in mind in the
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page? I merely corrected iffy information. The page you revert to contains citations which are against Knowledge (XXG) rules (they advertise commercial institutions and do not link to anything which contain's Natascha's name or achievements).
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advising people to close off their allotted time. I have gone through this exercise before - sockpuppetry as you name it (see earlier in this History). And there are reasons that I really don't much care about any of this, right now ... best
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No, I don't love you, Levret, Ellis or Engel. You have come to be examples of a (political) way of being that I find 'empty' and that has resulted in much that is destructive in our society. That is my opinion, it belongs to me and that is
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Your 'promotion' of Sam Ellis is noted ... I've brought your Wiki entry of 'Sam Ellis' up to boilerplate/stub standard and created a discussion page where, first, the 'intimate' relations ('thinking-wise' that is) between you (Fetler), one
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375:) to 'sort wheat from chaff ?' Thanks for early cooperation with unblocking. I have items I wish to contribute. (Oh, yes, see my contributions list (again): see it's fairly selectively channelled and all legit.) PS. I have logged-in and no
2390:. For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. If you would like to see masses of articles being improved for Europe and your specialist country like
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for details, and to add your comments if desired. NOTE: You are not bound or required to participate in this discussion, however your input would be helpful to resolve any dispute that may have contributed to this alert being posted.
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I have no problem with Lomcevak striving for accountability in British politics, but harassing other users is just downright nasty and unnecessary when they either edit articles he has edited or if they take offence to his actions.
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But there's a general attempt to not create to many categories randomly but in a structured format, so when the main category starts to fill up we can just move them to a suitable sub cat. (it makes searching easier for users) -
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Yes, quite possibly the same IP. I work from my local library, right now, being 'between' personal kit and, of course, the facilities are public. Best I can say is look at the (few) contributions I (Lomcevak) have made. Again,
2221:. Students have been procrastinating and cutting corners since school was invented; that's nothing new. I prefer to focus on those who do want to learn, and as for the rest - well, their grades will reflect their attitude. --
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As it was, I kept silence. That is until you started redacting the trail of evidence as to why we had reached such an impasse noting this is all about ACCOUNTABILTY ... and not just in British politics.
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in this set, to a pestilence upon the land that we need (as the UK people) to put out of our misery. I've expressed just as much to Engel on-line and off (far more virulently - you can trust me on this).
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A Wikiquette discussion is not an indictment, an insult, or a slight. Wikiquette discussions are an early step in dispute resolution, and involved users should bear that in mind during participation, so…
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The same goes for linking to the KCL departments. If the departmental pages actually contain information about Natascha then that is permissible, but as they do not then it is not permissible.
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that is 'economical with the actualite' when you assert that I was only protesting about 'minor edits'. I think my use of the words 'whole sale surgery' in my earlier replies to you gives the
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disturbing. Then again, I love watching it... it's like a highly comical nervous breakdown in slow motion. Where would we be without your rambles, rants, tirades and general buffoonery?
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You haven't been blocked directly, rather you are caught in an autoblock, or IP block. Can you follow the instructions on the block page and post a specific IP unblock request —
1052:. I have to hypothesise because you don't make it clear and so prevent people from responding, specifically, to whatever you're objecting about. However, if you examine the site
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However I don't see why that should prevent me (Lomcevak) from making my legitimate contributions. Maybe this is pointing towards the need for a more sophisticated way for a
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and is very likely to have evidence that you and Tile join edited from the same or similar IPs. I have asked him to come and check over it but I will not unblock you myself.
1074:. I came on to this with Kings links already established and I think all I did was harmonise what I found to be 'in main text' external links (xlinks) to footnotes (see the
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found, by simple Googling, additional evidence of the Ellis/Newman 'mutual appreciation society' and will place that evidence on the discussion page of the Ellis article.
730:- just go to the image, click edit, and add one of those. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.
650:- just go to the image, click edit, and add one of those. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.
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is a 'big word,' I know, but instead of ridiculing people who want to formulate and exchange ideas in language somewhat more expressive than New Labour verb free
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could ever have done ... that's why New Labour and everything to do with it is so despised ... you are intelligent, I take it, enough to read the blogs ... like
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Please remain civil. If you have a dissenting view, please present it calmly, and cite any references to talk page or article content with the applicable diffs.
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Along the way you managed to introduce a completely unsourced reference, for example, to her policy on the 'smacking of children.' Now if you look, once again
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template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.
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sock. The IP evidence does suggest that it's a public computer though. I will hesitantly unblock, on the assumption that he is being honest in what he says.
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I have reverted edits that have appear to, principally, have come from a pair of anonymous IP's, one, specifically at the University of Central Lancashire.
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To those who persist in vandalising my talk page - I will delete whatever you write. You will keep on adding your drivel, and I will keep on deleting it.
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When you were told to leave requests on my talk page (they are still there BTW) on why I kept reverting your changes to Engel's entry I replied to you in
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need watching ... especially in the run-up to the next General Election (May 2010) when the New Labor 'spin-troops' will be deployed at their 'fullest.'
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2325:. All participants of the project have been subscribed to receive copies of the newsletter. You can unsubscribe simply by removing your name from the
254:|I (Lomcevak) am not a "sock-puppet" of "Tile join" but a legitimate and constructive Wikipedian. Raul654, you've done this once before. See above.}}
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to Knowledge (XXG)! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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Whole sale surgery is not a very good idea. If you want to change things, especially to an established article, do it bit-by-bit and along the way
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your contributions to other's talk pages ... I think that is the usual Knowledge (XXG) convention ... like I have done on your talk page, to this.
1345:. If you aren't willing to allow your contributions to be edited extensively or be redistributed by others, please do not submit them. Thank you.
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In the meantime, you may note, I've improved your original stub of Sam Ellis and also noted the 'orphan' tag and ilinked between UKYP and Ellis.
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But no, that's not Mandelsonian postmodernism (we make up the truth) style, is it ? And that's now why we are in such a mess in this country !!!
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and, it seems to me, right now, closed ... but with many question marks around it. Pretzels asked me if I could add anything more and I said, '
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in place for others to study at their leisure. Not like 'self-censoring cowards' that prefer to forget what has gone before: that is down the
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Again, as I said before, have a good life ... (and I'm restraining myself for what I could say, for the sake of Wiki standards).
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No problem if you can't deal with this right now. Just to be clear though, you're not the same person who created the account
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Would you put your statement in its own section? They're new, and I don't want to confuse them as to what a GA review is. -
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on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out
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I'm only trying to help make the page better, not worse. Please desist reverting other people's edits back to your own.
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who is the first to reach for abuse as a way of replying to perfectly reasonable probes, under the available evidence!
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appeared to engage in whole sale surgery, in the process of which you removed completely encyclopaedic, and possibly
996:(you may see that this page has been full of controversy, if you take the time to read) page of the article. See the
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and you may have further evidence to add to the page, judging from your previous interactions with the user. Thanks,
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Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the
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If you feel you are being attacked or victimised by another user, I strongly suggest explaining the situation at
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If you feel you are being attacked or victimised by another user, I strongly suggest explaining the situation at
1107:, in the Publications section, you'll see I've added, on a stooge through the daily Google, a publicly available
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my findings for the Wiki community as 'circumstantial' but appeared to be worthy of continued scrutiny. I made
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about. Such users cannot be reasoned with and therefore must only be ignored by the Knowledge (XXG) community.
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have engaged in such scrutiny and have discerned the appearance of sockpuppetry or near sockpuppetry, i.e. a '
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P.S. Taking a 'shine' to you doesn't even come on to the scale. Personally, I get the impression that I would
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articles to a string of projects. I'll look the articles over when go through the assessment lists. - Thanks
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to Parliament during Tory times ... the difference being that New Labour has done far much more damage than
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Good effort splitting them into sub cats as well, ever bit helps tidy things up and make navigation easier.
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If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding
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has a technical misunderstanding. Again, as I said above, I'm working from public resources so
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a "sock-puppet" of "Tile join" but a legitimate and constructive (I hope) Wikipedian. Thanks.}}
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on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!
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Hello Lomcevak. I've blocked you indefinitely for the time being for disruptive editing to
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to her purported policy. If you want to add Hansard, then fill your boots. But at least
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Ok, Raul should be able to verify that and will probably unblock you when he responds.
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requesting that it be speedily deleted from Knowledge (XXG). This has been done under
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a "sock-puppet" of "Tile join" but a legitimate and constructive (I hope) Wikipedian.
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has been initiated, naming you as an involved party. Please see the discussion at
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on modifications made to the main entry on residential information, for example.
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hmm BD = Bulldozer = El Dozer. Derby MPs are getting to look very much improved.
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If you're the person I think you are then you should find that I've emailed you
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Thought you might find this interesting, especially after recent transactions.
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by creating a new sock puppet account. I have posted this block for review at
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The re-establishments are important, in document history, for disclosing that
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A very good 'exhortation' which I will always be sure to 'bear in mind' as
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Please don't just blindly revert. The article was in a terrible mess with
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And good ways to avoid future confusion is not to use anonymous IPLs and,
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Raul unblocked him an hour ago. Procedurally closing the unblock request
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Nothing is quite as simple as it seems, is it ? Least of all on Wiki ...
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Natascha_Engel#Notice_of_a_Breakout_on_Youth
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Please list your disagreements and then we can discuss the ins and outs.
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P.S. I'm now also aware of this previous 'contribution' from you to the
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It is perfectly acceptable to disagree, as long as it is done agreeably.
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And will you have the guts not to redact this from your talk page ... ?
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If you wish to remove KCL specific information, then feel free ... just
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IP. The public council facilities that I work from/ can work from have
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it. If not, then I will continue to delete his comments as I see fit.
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prerogative. You clearly have problems with my way of being. That is
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I think the 'commecial institution' that you must be referring to is
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Fetler/Levret/Lancashire University/Samuel Ellis and Natascha Engel
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Some important things to remember during a Wikiquette discussion;
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Edit Centric gets 'pissed-off' because other admins says he has
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the anon-range should be overcome. Read above ! Clearly this is
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I have complied with the (bot) requests for copyright release.
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For more information on using images, see the following pages:
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For more information on using images, see the following pages:
1751:' approach to Wikipediatry. Interested parties should examine
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You see, we try to be clean and honest here at Wiki ... see:
1445:) who bears a nodding acquaintance with the 'actualite' (as
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explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for
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see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable
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The first UK Politics newsletter is currently available at
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and 'sock blocking' of users have some very recent history
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Second request on this unblock. As before, I (Lomcevak) am
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Fetler's reaction: Mandelsonian postmodernist to the death
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Now ... who is it again who cannot be reasoned with ... ?
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information that has been supplied and linked in to other
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon
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you. You are, New Labour, these days akin, and I include
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You just don't get it do you (ACCOUNTABILITY that is):Â ?
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contains information about Natascha. That's advertising.
445:... sigh ... I understand I'm caught in an autoblock and
416:
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please
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WP:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom/Newsletter
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personal allegations against you and I left it at that.
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Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
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Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Europe/The 10,000 Challenge
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However it is just as much my world as it is yours ...
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who bandies around with words like 'infant' etc. etc.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Natascha_Engel#Work_with_Youth
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Just FYI (in case you hadn't studied background) ...
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WP:WQA#User:Lomcevak, User:Fetler, and Natascha Engel
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contributions to your talk page can hardly be called
1766:... but ...' I really wasn't remotely interested in
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Thereby, the argument links are re-established, for
279:
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an
1236:, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please
473:of IPs ! I'm very wary of all this because clearly
1571:. If you would like to experiment, please use the
1773:However, now in your response to the case, it is
920:Hello Lomcevak. I'm writing to let you know that
2217:Sorry, but I've reverted your comment there per
2253:, unhelpful, disruptive and biting comments at
1999:
1437:are yet another 'New Labour' clone (along with
752:. For assistance on the image use policy, see
672:. For assistance on the image use policy, see
505:I've made you exempt from the IP block for now
2382:has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland
1567:. Such edits are disruptive and appear to be
1272:if the page does get deleted, you can contact
1226:section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion
726:(to require that you be credited), or any tag
646:(to require that you be credited), or any tag
1912:
1563:legitimate talk page comments, as you did at
1411:All Wiki contribs. are, by agreement, in the
1258:the page that has been nominated for deletion
8:
2257:, and attempting to evade a block issued to
2003:(ref.:WQA 20090228 ) 'retires' for a while (
1916:(ref.:WQA 20090228 ) 'retires' for a while (
2388:Knowledge (XXG):The 1000 Challenge (Nordic)
943:Recovered from Fetler's attempt to suppress
1770:, least of all to engage in 'harassment.'
1280:the page or have a copy emailed to you.
583:to log in when I made the original edit).
544:Why do you keep reverting my edits of the
65:I hope you enjoy editing here and being a
754:Knowledge (XXG):Media copyright questions
674:Knowledge (XXG):Media copyright questions
449:asserts he knows this and that simply by
1995:Contribution to Fetler's page preserved
1360:Again recovered from Fetler's would be
1181:and then the discussion pages, before:
1169:Edit made on ideas at anon. IP contribs
1027:Expect reasoning and debate in return.
2317:1st Wikiproject UK Politics Newsletter
441:unblock|Again ! Yes, and with respect
2225:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
1870:This message is to inform you that a
1848:No, I didn't think you would have ...
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2384:Knowledge (XXG):The 10,000 Challenge
1649:Knowledge (XXG):Talk page guidelines
1613:Knowledge (XXG):Talk page guidelines
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35:The five pillars of Knowledge (XXG)
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1952:Personally, if I never hear from
1655:Knowledge (XXG):Wikiquette_alerts
1619:Knowledge (XXG):Wikiquette_alerts
1308:are brought to public attention.
1968:(?) again, it will be too soon.
1642:I think this was meant for you:
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1721:twice explaining my reasoning (
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1081:ref. dated 11 September 2008).
1060:named albeit tangentially (...
794:category:Politics of Derbyshire
748:This is an automated notice by
686:Unspecified source/license for
668:This is an automated notice by
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2374:Europe 10,000 Challenge invite
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2107:Sorry we don't get along ...
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1530:remain spineless and supine.
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1234:criteria for speedy deletion
1189:That's how we do it ! :-)
988:May I suggest, kindly, that
908:16:17, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
879:18:07, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
859:11:58, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
828:11:58, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
496:Your request to be unblocked
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223:15:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
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188:10:42, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
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117:Your request to be unblocked
55:How to write a great article
2255:Talk:Politico-media complex
2194:Talk:Politico-media complex
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2122:12:23, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
2081:I may not agree will all
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718:(to release all rights),
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2397:Ser Amantio di Nicolao
2346:WikiProject Derbyshire
2344:Courtesy message from
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2128:"here" if you wish!.
2089:to help you along ...
1651:for more explanation.
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1419:talk page. After all,
1295:Promotion of Sam Ellis
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1125:You 'exhort me' with:
1072:provide your reasoning
1044:Natascha Engel (Again)
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1978:It's been real ;-)
1946:(blowing doors off)
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2403:Lo dicono a Signa.
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2329:. Regards.
2130:—Preceding
2079:good faith.
1719:civil terms
1496:Memory Hole
1480:talk page.
1362:Memory Hole
1311:Cheers ;-)
1256:the top of
922:User:Fetler
871:Victuallers
846:Derby North
842:Greg Knight
554:—Preceding
385:range-block
2356:Rcsprinter
1787:And it is
1780:So, it is
1734:summarized
1465:for ex.).
1447:Alan Clark
1098:documented
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994:discussion
891:Hand Hints
451:logging-in
389:TigerShark
319:filter log
79:{{helpme}}
67:Wikipedian
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2075:wordwooze
1971:But they
1926:no voice.
1753:Exhibit A
1749:glee club
1569:vandalism
1408:of Wiki.
1394:vandalism
1152:Be well.
1109:reference
1105:carefully
1054:carefully
1050:Vale Vets
1010:Regards.
758:MifterBot
750:MifterBot
678:MifterBot
670:MifterBot
498:has been
418:read the
387:. Thanks
369:checkuser
338:checkuser
297:block log
176:checkuser
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69:! Please
2378:Hi. The
2283:Lomcevak
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2005:no voice
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1396:. It is
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1156:Lomcevak
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840:Thanks,
774:Lomcevak
568:contribs
556:unsigned
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475:Raul 654
471:hundreds
467:specific
459:somebody
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50:Tutorial
22:Welcome!
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1120:explain
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479:history
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