User talk:Poujeaux - Knowledge (XXG)

1088:

the Participant list is to function as a resource for other editors wishing to get in contact with wine project members for comments or question on Knowledge (XXG)'s wine article. The goal of this process is to try and maintain the Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject Wine/Participants as current and up to date as possible with active and contributing members. Please note that this is not intended to be a negative reflection on your Knowledge (XXG) or wine related contribution and it is well known that sometimes outside life can take editors away from Knowledge (XXG) for some time. You will always be welcomed to rejoined the Wine Project should you feel that the time is right. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me on my talk or on the Wine Project talk page. Best wishes.

1393:, which advocates that Oxford was the son of Queen Elizabeth, that he later had an affair with her years later and conceived the Earl of Southampton, to whom he then wrote the sonnets that ostensibly suggest a homosexual relationship, is currently the hottest Oxfordian theory and is gaining more and more support. (Of course all that has to be decoded using the right key.) How do you write about that with a straight face? Just stating its ridiculousness is branded as "insulting" by true believers, as I'm sure you've learned by now. In any case, we honestly tried to present the topic as neutrally as possible, and if you find any transgressions don't hesitate to bring them up or change them. We've both been a lot looser about it than we've been made out to be. 1444:

researchers rarely bring this stuff up. The Prince Tudor theory is in the similar vein. sure, it makes for a great movie, but I rarely see it used as any kind of major evidence. Here is the Oxford section that reflects the main arguments, and also reflects the kind of evidence that is most often quoted in RS material like Atlantic Monthly, Harpers, NY Times, etc, as well as Anderson, the most recent published Oxfordian:(Also note how much shorter this is than the present version. All that code and Prince Tudor detail belongs in the Oxfordian Theory article, as the editors note clearly says, not the general SAQ article. That is why the charge at ArbCom that the material has been formulated to make the case look ridiculous and unsupported.)

1502:. To quote Parity policy: "For example, the Apollo moon landing hoax accusations article may include material from reliable websites, movies, television specials, and books that are not peer reviewed. By parity of sources critiques of that material can likewise be gleaned from reliable websites and books that are not peer reviewed." (This would include the Kathman/Ross/Reedy blog material that is not peer reviewed, but is used in the article.) 1240:

total of eight months. I pointed to my newness when I divulged personal information on Paul's talkpage the first two days I was an editor and knew nothing at all about Knowledge (XXG) (I thought it was kind of a newsgroup). To compare my ignorance at two days with hers at eight months was what I found "more than a bit ludicrous", especially since she's been directed many times to the proper policy and guideline pages.

1976:"Had the truth been anything like the story that Mr. Ogburn has sketched, the greatest problem would be to unravel the conspiracy of silence that thus far kept it from coming out. It would have to be taken for granted that Jonson and other literary men, along with Shakespeare's fellow actors and editors, and all who were aware of the glamorous mystery, had to be bribed or browbeaten into covering it up. 955: 828: 1411:

Smatprt and Nina think that the Prince Tudor theory is nonsense (I'm not sure - would like to check this) and would not want to be associated with it. And the whole history section seems to focus on the silliest aspects, almost as a source of amusement. I think part of the problem is that the Oxfordian arguments presented on the page come not from Oxfordians, but through

709: 605: 469: 332: 1763:

personal bible, which Oxfordians believe correspond to quotations in Shakespeare's plays. Confronting the issue of Oxford's death in 1604, Oxfordian researchers cite examples they say imply the writer known as "Shakespeare" or "Shake-speare" died before 1609, and point to 1604 as the year regular publication of "new" or "augmented" Shakespeare plays stopped.

1487:

2010:

Constitutional rights and deficit reduction bills and employment bills whose main purpose is to actually cut taxes. Ogburn's would be named the No Conspiracy Needed Act, and it would redefine the word to exempt any gigantic secretive government scheme that required no records to be kept with everything communicated orally.

1759:

England|Queen Elizabeth I]] and the [[Henry Wriothesley, 3rd Earl of Southampton|Earl of Southampton]], his knowledge of Court life, his extensive education, his academic and cultural achievements, and his wide-ranging travels through France and Italy to what would later become the locations of many of Shakespeare's plays.

1748:

approach to new information or neglected information. For some reason, I have been accused of violations about the Knowledge (XXG) policies, by an opposing thinker, and may not be able to contribute any further. So here you go. It is straight-forward, simple, and non ideological. with best wishes, --Zweigenbaum

1244:

to explain). I know it might seem disingenuous to those on the other side of this dispute, but the only agenda I'm pushing here is adherence to Knowledge (XXG) policies, just as my advocacy for Shakespeare is based more on adherence to scholarly standards than championing one person over another as the -: -->

1541:

Hi Smatprt, thanks for your various comments above. To be honest, I am not that fascinated by the subject and I dont have much time to get in touch ex-wiki by email. Besides, there is a danger this could be seen by some as an attempt to circuit your ban (by feeding info to me which I would then feed

1486:

The case for Oxford's authorship is also based on perceived similarities between Oxford's biography and events in Shakespeare's plays, sonnets and longer poems; parallels of language, idiom, and thought between Oxford's personal letters and the Shakespearean canon; and underlined passages in Oxford's

1415:

stratfordians - you/Nishi interpreting Shapiro/Wadsworth. It would be fairer if Oxfordian editors were to write most of that section, and cite their own sources (which of course you regard as not reliable). If the whole subject is as completely ridiculous as you claim, why do intelligent people like

1410:

Well, yes, I know, but there is an impression that some parts of the page are written in such a way as to make the anti-strat position look as ridiculous as possible. One example is the way the Oxford section of the page runs smoothly into the Prince Tudor theory. Now I would assume that people like

1958:

Have you even read Ogburn? See page 239, for just one small example: "What seems to me self-evident is this: that either the manuscripts were deliberately destroyed to remove incriminating evidence or they were deliberately concealed. evidently with consummate thoroughness. All things considered, it

1762:

The case for Oxford's authorship is also based on perceived similarities between Oxford's biography and events in Shakespeare's plays, sonnets and longer poems; parallels of language, idiom, and thought between Oxford' personal letters and the Shakespearean canon; and underlined passages in Oxford's

1963:

article: "The alternative to the untenable orthodox view is that the manuscripts were a 'hot' property and not to be shown, even to a printer. Presumably this was because of the light they would throw on the authorship ... Could they be disposed of so that they would not be found until the existing

1827:

Note that I do truly appreciate your contributions on the article (although based on your comments to others I doubt whether you believe that), so the above is only intended as the gentlest possible advice on how to make those contributions as helpful, constructive, and effective as possible. There

1819:

think it comes across as non-NPOV or sneering (or whatever the issue may be); and it is ok to state this opinion and see if others agree. But you're now well past that point and the constant repetition of it is 1) not helping, 2) very unlikely to achieve what you want it to achieve, 3) comes across

1243:

Anyhow, this stuff gets all tangled up and people talk about things that are completely missed by the other party, which is then used to argue that they're deliberately being deceptive. I don't think that is the case with you, because you're not pushing an agenda (which I why I took the time to try

2009:

That you take those statements at face value demonstrates that Ogburn would have been an excellent U.S. congressman. They routinely introduce bills with deceptive names that state the very opposite of their content, such as bills with ostensibly anti-terrorist names that actually reduce individual

1277:

No problem, P. I think it had something to do with Paul stashing an identity in his archive. How that is "outing" I don't know, and don't really care at this point, as it appears that my first impression that Knowledge (XXG) was a newsgroup seems to have been more correct than I suspected! Cheers!

1087:

This is a friendly note to let you know that you have been moved to the Inactive members page of the Wine Project. Users are moved to this page when two months have passed without any Knowledge (XXG) activity or 3 months have passed without any contribution to a wine related article. The intent of

1069:

Apologies to everyone for this notification being sent out so late, events in real life prevented me from distributing it at the time, and the Wine Project's had a bit of a lull during the Northern Hemsiphere summer. But as the nights draw in, activity should pick up again, and hopefully the next

1973:

However, he is being more than disingenuous here, and in fact Ogburn claims conspiracies existed at every level, from the street to the highest levels of government, while simultaneously denying that there were none. That he does not come right out and use the word is beside the point. See Gwynne

1835:

guideline is, I believe, a truly helpful tool in so many ways. If you feel that the article is “wrong” and that you're not being heard by the other editors, please do try to ascribe it to a genuine and honest difference of opinion, rather than malice and entrenched bias, and I think you will find

1758:

Oxfordians point to the acclaim of Oxford's contemporaries regarding his talent as a poet and a playwright, his reputation as a hidden poet, and his personal connections to London theatre and the contemporary playwrights of Shakespeare's day. They also note his relationships with[[Elizabeth I of

1443:

I do believe that much of this section has been inserted to make the case look weak. The code/cypher stuff is rarely if ever mentioned as a major argument of the Oxfordian side. Of course, there are extremeists on every issue and some of them see hidden coeds everywhere, but the major writers and

206:

Hi, Poujeaux. I just wanted to make sure you didn't read my replies in a 'biting your head off' manner. That was most definetly not intended. In any case, I think your change is still there. I am in no hurry changing it back, as none of the other editors seem to care strongly enough to comment or

1782:

Thanks, I did see it. It looks fine to me but the problem is, they will never accept a complete re-write, especially coming from you. Your approach is wrong - you should be trying to make minor tweaks to the existing text to improve the article. Sorry to see you banned but you were asing for it.

1239:

I'm confused about your reference here: "Last point - OK for the May incident but what about the July one?" And on the outing thing, I wasn't referring to her attempt to get Nishidani to divulge his identity, just the excuse as a new editor ignorant of policies after being here since May 2010, a

156:

Poujeaux, I got around to looking at P's CV, and I think I see the confusion is coming from. There is indeed an unpublished paper entitled "Naturalism Defeated" (the pdf link we've got), but there's also a much earlier paper entitled, iirc, "An Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism" that was

1747:

Dear Sir, I don't know if you have read this, in the squabbling about whether it or any change is appropriate at the SAQ website page. I am sending it in case you have not. I found that the editors read only as much as they can tolerate and then start attacking. This is an unhealthy defensive

252:

are in my view both valid, but pretty necessary. However altough this has something to do with p(No God) it has nothing to do with the validity of the "747 gambit" Even if you agree with the conclusion that p(No God) is very high, I genunely can't see how you, or Dawkins, or anyone else, can

1994:

He discusses the issue on p 182-3: "The case for Oxford does not assume a conspiracy". "No conspiracy would be required under an autocratic government with the means of enforcing its will in such a matter". Your last examples just prove my point - the word is generally used as an attempt to

1474:

Oxfordians point to the acclaim of Oxford's contemporaries regarding his talent as a poet and a playwright, his reputation as a concealed poet, and his personal connections to London theatre and the contemporary playwrights of Shakespeare's day. They also note his long-term relationships with

1836:

your participation both a lot less frustrating and your ability to interact with other editors without constant conflict much improved. It is worthwhile to remind oneself periodically that in most questions it is possible for other people to be both unbiased and objective, and

1139:

Ha ha! No, actually Nishidani did the first draft almost single-handedly, but it was built on the previous version, which about nine million SPA editors drove by and shat on. My philosophy is that nothing can refute a fringe theory better than a bald description of it.

1262:

Hi Tom, sorry if that wasnt clear - the reference was to the fact that someone had claimed you had outed someone in July, when you had been editing for a few months. Of course I'm not familiar with the history so I don't know if it is true, misleading or whatever.

265:

To be honest I havent read the book yet (have you?) so no I can't help you. It is not very clear on the page. Saying that natural selection can easily produce complicated things is fine and true, but doesnt disprove the existence of god as far as I can see.

2041:

It is at the bottom of a long post which I needed to make due to a direct request from Johnuniq (evidence of my desire to not be perceived as ignoring an admin). Anyway, the bottom line is that Nishidani's source (which he termed "pellucid") reads:

1213: 1209: 1808:

I'm going to go ahead and assume that you have the best of intentions, but your constant harping about how “sneering” and non-NPOV the article is, is not constructive. For example, what in the world kind of good did you imagine that

1824:. If Nikkimaria's (truly excellent) copy-edits have addressed your concerns then so much the better, and repeating the “sneering” and other pejorative descriptions serve no other purpose than undermining your own credibility. 1969:"... this is not a conspiracy theory when you have a centralized, authoritarian government, as you had in Elizabethan England, you don’t need a conspiracy; you have an imperative from on high and everybody is obedient to it." 1483:, his knowledge of Court life, his extensive education, his academic and cultural achievements, and his wide-ranging travels through France and Italy to what would later become the locations of many of Shakespeare's plays. 1491:

Note that the references are all varying degrees of RS - Encyclopedia Brittanica, US News, Academic Strittmatter (although we all realize that he and Tom don't get on), Fowler - they conform under various policies including

1857:

On the contrary Xover, my criticisms of the NPOV and sneering tone of the article have been very constructive and have led to a considerable improvement to the article and reduction in its bias. And these arguments clearly

1959:

seems to me hardly credible that Shakespeare's manuscripts, many if not all unduplicated by the printer, could have disappeared by accident down to the very last scrap." And in the appendix he quotes himself from a 1972

2126: 2116: 1641: 1205: 157:

published in what I believe is a now-defunct philosophical journal entitled "Logos". I haven't a clue whether Logos was peer-reviewed or not, but I have to think the OUP-published Warrant & Proper Function was.

1820:

as both unconstructive and confrontational. You have by and large failed to convince the other editors of the article on this point, so the best thing you can do is accept that we do not agree on this point and to

1470:

The most popular present-day candidate is Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford. After being proposed in the 1920's, Oxford rapidly overtook Bacon to become within two decades the most popular alternative candidate.

2166:. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose 117:

HI Poujeaux, I nabbed this nifty info box from the Digimon wikiproject, we could turn it into a good tool. Right now it has digimon stuff on it, but that can give us ideas, and help us out. Heres the template:

2034:

Dear Poujeaux, I formally proposed a compromise to resolve the issue. It is based on a new definition which Nishidani dug up today from a source by Paul Prescott. May I please ask that you take a look at it

1754:

The leading present-day candidate is Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford. After being proposed in the 1920's, Oxford rapidly overtook Bacon to become within two decades the most popular alternative candidate.

1124:

I'm sure some do! But I think to be fair the article should present the theories in their less nutty form. And well done on the article - I gather it is mostly you, which seems to be the main complaint.

1542:

into SAQ). As I said recently in the talk page, I am trying to keep an open mind about whether the anti-strat case is as weak as it appears in the article, or whether the article is biased. Which

1245:

True Author<- (trumpet flourish), which is a crusade I didn't really want to join, although it seems I was drafted into the army a long time ago when I took my first class on historiography.

2417:

Stritmatter, Roger A.,"The Marginalia of Edward de Vere's Geneva Bible: Providential Discovery, Literary Reasoning, and Historical Consequence", University of Massachusetts at Amherst, 2001.

1936:

Although the article has improved, there are still some examples of this sneering, biased tone in the article, and I will continue point these out to you and the other editors of the page.

1652: 230:

Yeah, I suppose so. Dawkins took off his kid's gloves at a mature age. After many years of patience, he has most definetly earned that right. Not that he needs my approval. Happy editing!

1607:

Gosh - you have changed the article a lot in repsonse to my rather quick comments. Well the structure looks a lot better to me now, with the history section as a separate main article.

1389:

It is very difficult to determine what is "negative" or "insulting" when the topic itself is patently ridiculous and has drawn so many obviously unbalanced advocates. For instance, the

1307:

Since this had to do with the ArbCom case, I believe I am not violating my topic ban by chiming in here. If anyone feels that this is a vio, please have an ArbCom clerk remove this:

1107:

Are you sure you want to cut that? I know some Oxfordians who firmly believe in communication with the dead and they might be offended that you called it "silly"! Cheers Poujeaux!

1648:

An arbitration case regarding the Shakespeare authorship question has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:

406: 394: 1828:

has been far far too much conflict here, so anything we can all do to reduce that now and in the future is probably the best possible for both the article and all involved.

1168:

and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

963: 860: 631: 495: 358: 735: 307: 1621:

So far, the suggestions have been specific enough to fix. See if the new form of the history and climate model sections is more up to the standards you had in mind.

2054:

b) "anti-Stratfordians-a collective term for those who believe that someone other than the man from Stratford wrote the plays and poems commonly attributed to him".

375: 300: 1964:

authorities had passed from the scene? If my theory holds, that is what was done, with consummate skill." What exactly would you call such an arrangement?

134:

thanks for dropping me a line about it. If something like that happens again to any atheism related pages, just put a link to it and a little info on the

1480: 643:

New look for Wine Project Page; Wine Article assessment; Operation Stub-killer; New Template for Australian Wineries; New wine stub categories proposed.

192:

I also wanted to welcome you (a bit belatedly) to Knowledge (XXG), and I hope you enjoy it here with the rest of us in our own little corner of Bedlam.

70: 2046:

a) "Anti-Stratfordian' is the collective name for the belief that someone other than the man from Stratford wrote the plays commonly attributed to him"

1590:

I think I was able to address your concerns, which helped minimize historic content and information duplication significantly. See what you think.

30:

to Knowledge (XXG)! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

1060: 936: 808: 689: 585: 449: 2399:

Ward 1928, pp. 274–275; Smith, Irwin M. (1964), Shakespeare's Blackfriars Playhouse: its history and its design, New York University Press

2191: 1687: 1440:

Again - if this "comment to smatprt" involves the ArbCom case, then I think I can respond here. If not, please have a clerk remove this.

747:

New Grape Infobox; Standard Grape article format; Wine photos; New wine stub categories created; Wine related deletion notices; and more

293: 2216: 1172: 1165: 207:

revert themselves. Once the current debate cools down, there will probably be a chance to discuss it with the others. Best wishes,

54: 2187: 1679: 1672: 1656: 1059: