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594:. I was going to put one in for one of the puppets (which is how I found your page) and thought I ought to check with you first. I notice you haven't edited in almost a month so I don't even know if you'll be reading this. You can reply here, I'll watch this page. If I don't hear from you soon, I'll just go ahead and put it in. Thanks —
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My primary concern is that policy should not be written by well meaning people who are sure they are correct. Using the "supplement" to replace an essay tag does two major things: 1) It removes the statement that the page is advice and is not mandatory, 2) it labels it as a supplement to policy which
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All told, I am not opposed to changing most policy. I think that if there is to be an explanation of WP:IAR that it should be on a different page. I think that if that explanation has consensus to be policy it should be. But I do not think there has ever been consensus for that explanation of IAR to
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This whole matter has been confused by the fact that while consensus was reached for the supplement tag to be used, that tag at the time labeled the page as an essay and has since changed to give the impression that it is part of polict. There was never a consensus for it not to be an essay. If you
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In respond to point a), If the community felt the advice was necessary it can make it policy if it so chooses to, if they do not choose to do this than its necessity is an opinion not a fact. In response to point b) Just because some essays are not good advice, does not mean that anything tagged an
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gives the wrong impression to new users who are confused about exactly what "Ignore All Rules" means. We've had many instances of someone coming along the IAR talk page (and other users' talk pages) asking "What exactly does this policy mean?" and we've pointed them to WIARM. They read the page and
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of a policy that wouldn't otherwise fit into the policy page. Knowledge is expanding, and with it, so are the policy pages. It's just as simple as that. And I think that one major problem we're dealing with here is the fact that it's nearly impossible to enact a new policy or guidelne. It would be
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status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient
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You seem to be under the opinion that "essay" is a diminutive term, it is not. It means an exposition of opinion, and however good the advice may be it is still opinion until consensus decides to call it more. Wishful thinking or really thinking it should be so is not a basis for making an essay
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Leaving it without templates is a reasonable compromise for now. Though unless a consensus forms for it to be more than an essay in a reasonable amount of time it should go back as an essay. The reason for this is that an essay does not need consensus to be an essay as they are an exposition of
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experienced patrollers are being accorded the the new right without the need to apply, and if you have significant previous experience of patrolling new pages, we strongly encourage you to apply for the new right as soon as possible - we need all the help we can get, and we are now providing a
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policy. Make your argument and reach a consensus, if you fail to reach that consensus then that must be accepted. The creation of this vague quasi policy state called "supplement" seems to create the illusion an essay is more than it really is, and I dare say there was some intent behind that.
1146:). Since we are not geared up to do an automated count for that day, at 00:00, 23 November 2013 (UTC) (which is 7:00 PM on November 22, EST), I'll take a screenshot of the project page leaderboard. I will presume that anyone who is not already listed on the leaderboard has precisely
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If one reads the policies as a whole it is clear that certain actions such as disruption will lead to certain actions such as blocked. While WP:IAR invites you to violate those rules for the benefit of
Knowledge, it does not state any immunity to the consequences of your actions.
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Those diffs are still at the link above. Just scroll down to the bottom of the page. If you want to make a list of revisions that are sane, you can do it in your userspace, that would be cool, I think. I wasn't involved in that episode, which anyway is well in the past now.
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certain pages which have advice or behavioral guidelines that we must follow (unless we desire to be blocked or desysopped), but aren't necessarily appropriate for inclusion in the policy page (IAR/WIARM is a perfect example of the policy/supplement relationship being
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a diminutive term. In their current form, essays mean nothing. Opinions? No necessity to adhere to the text? We might as well add "Sure, you can write an essay on
Knowledge if you want to feel better about yourself, but it won't do any good or improve the project" to
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I actually thought the black version was rather eye-catching. Good compilation, though! Although now that I refresh the page it looks as though you deleted them... to bad, I had some additions to some saner (and, for a while at least, consensus supported) versions.
317:. I guess my big problem is that tagging a page with {tl|essay}} is that a) on occasion, it does give out advice that is absolutely necessary and useful to new users, and that tag gives the wrong impression, and b) it puts a page such as WIARM on the same level as
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understood the policy better. If we were to tag the page with the essay template, the new user would read the template and be confused -- why are editors pointing them to a page that says that they're not obliged to follow it? I think excessive
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until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
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With this wording it is really no different than an essay accept it has an associated policy. But with the current wording: "This page is a supplement to
Knowledge:Ignore all rules" it appears to be policy, and that was never agreed to.
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edits. At 01:00, 24 November 2013 (UTC) (8:00 PM on
November 23, EST), I'll take a screenshot of the leaderboard at that time (the extra hour is to give the board time to update), and I will determine from that who our winner is. I
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334:; maybe it's not. Maybe the answer is to not have tags on articles like WIARM. I don't know. What I do know is that tagging a page that dispenses very useful advice and then states that no one needs to adhere to it is disruptive.
268:, without further qualifications, will lead users into performing actions that will lead to them being blocked. I disagree, as WP:IAR nowhere says that others need to accept you actions or that you will be immune to the results.
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966:. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our
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is well advised that the information is an essay and not mandatory. To tell them otherwise would be misinforming them. If the community wanted that pages content to be policy they could do so, but they have not.
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in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:
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discussion is a strange thing. I would be fine to delete the template if we weren't so quick to give every single page a tag. Would it kill us for a non-mainspace page not to have a template? There
1163:, we currently have under 256,000 disambiguation links to be fixed. If everyone in the disambiguation link fixers category were to fix 500 links, we would have them all done - so aim high! Cheers!
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think users disregarding the essay may have a bad result, then state that in the essay. But it must be clear that the page is opinion based advice until there is consensus for it to be more.
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There is a discussion on the talk page, please contribute to it. Also there never was consensus to make it more than an essay so please revert yourself until such a consensus forms.
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871:" link (it is located at the very top of any Knowledge page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any
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293:. It is not a policy or guideline; it merely reflects the opinions of some of its author(s). Please update the page as needed, or discuss it on the talk page."
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if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on
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Done. How about this: until consensus is formed on the talk page to either describe the page as an essay or supplement, we leave the page without template.
423:), if the process actually worked, but as Kim has noted on many occasions, it doesn't. As it stands right now, we have a process that needs to be fixed.
1142:, on Saturday, November 23 (UTC). I will personally give a $ 20 Amazon.com gift card to the disambiguator who fixes the most links on that server-day (
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Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the
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Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the
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versions of the projectpage back in 2007 looked awful, tho I can't recall which particular diff was most outrageous. However, I do have some saner
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I understand your position, and for what it's worth, I liked the old wording on the supplement tag, too. And don't get me wrong: I'm not wedded to
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That being said, I think our fundamental disagreement may be one of semantics. Your comments have led me to believe that you feel the wording of
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how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the
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how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the
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Under the new rule, you may find that you are temporarily unable to mark new pages as reviewed. However, this is nothing to worry about - most
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We really do need some kind of consensus about what to do with the pages that are in between an essay and a policy/guideline. Maybe that tag is
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While I did agree to the addition of the supplement tag, I will point out that at the time it was worded as such: "This essay supplements
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information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.
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I agree it is a rather strange dispute, I can imagine an outsider not understanding what it is all about. A user being sent to
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page into an article, but you'll have to let me know me that you did so. Here's to a fun contest. Note that according to the
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Alternatively, you can also choose to replace this non-free media by finding freely licensed media of the same subject,
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This is all well and good if there has been a consensus to do so, but that is not how it is being used at all.
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Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through
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Our disagreement about how the policy should be aside, I would like to talk about how policy is decided upon.
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That's the great thing about the supplement tag. It allows for certain pages to exist that help to explain a
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Feh. We'll be twirling around in circles for days if we continue here. The thing is, on
Knowledge, "essay"
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You are receiving this invitation because you have patrolled new pages. For more information, please see
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that you may be interested in reviewing. (and over 260 proposals in all, across many aspects of wikis)
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Indeed, it is well in the past. That said, a chronicle of change is always a useful resource.
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tagging to otherwise very useful pages is unhelpful to new and otherwise inexperienced users.
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essay is diminished, nor does it mean that a good essay is suddenly more than an essay.
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showing the oldest, and older versions of the page, looking pretty much like the
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tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with
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that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:
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Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing
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902:Replaceable fair use
845:Image:Zykosalbum.jpg
784:Image:Comedyhorn.jpg
190:You know, the whole
1514:Further, there are
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1545:Delivered:
627:Comedy Horn
286:be policy.
26:at the end.
1472:This is a
1318:topic bans
1119:NPP Survey
728:dated prod
647:dated prod
483:. Cheers!
428:supplement
408:supplement
329:supplement
312:supplement
195:supplement
129:David Levy
1314:site bans
1267:consensus
1205:has been
1017:this link
1009:copyright
963:this link
755:consensus
674:consensus
588:checkuser
138:Talk page
1283:contribs
1039:48 hours
914:fair use
873:articles
854:orphaned
812:articles
793:orphaned
592:this guy
473:blinking
418:proposed
258:WP:WIARM
205:formed).
48:Archives
1586:HAMPION
1423:current
1374:deleted
1035:) then
976:Aspects
1780:editor
1683:editor
1304:. The
1236:or on
1168:bd2412
925:Go to
759:triwbe
718:" and
678:triwbe
637:" and
467:Those
413:, use
372:1Â != 2
299:1Â != 2
266:WP:IAR
182:1Â != 2
144:1Â != 2
1777:music
1774:danny
1680:music
1677:danny
1365:Zykos
1349:Zykos
1273:Chase
1031:(per
881:BJBot
820:BJBot
477:diffs
469:black
390:essay
224:essay
213:essay
1443:talk
1394:talk
1338:talk
1279:talk
1153:will
1148:nine
1107:HERE
1053:talk
980:talk
885:talk
824:talk
763:talk
682:talk
558:star
554:Rock
535:Talk
506:star
502:Rock
489:Talk
471:and
441:star
437:Rock
400:part
342:star
338:Rock
237:star
233:Rock
160:star
156:Rock
108:star
104:Rock
24:~~~~
1770:.
1755:by
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1673:.
1658:by
1651:.
1298:Hi,
1187:of
1090:WMF
944:On
864:).
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