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locations of these places to remain unknown, why even make the effort to write an article about them? Does not the very existence of the article encourage interested people to further investigate the subject (perhaps even do original research), including on the very basic attribute of its physical location? I, and presumably many others, would never have even known about the existence of this place had there not been a
Knowledge (XXG) article on it. Only knowledgeable people as yourself would be competent to write such an article. I am not a caver and have no particular interest in or knowledge about the subject. I am, however, a geographer, and I like to know where places are. I do not pick on caves in particular when I give geocoordinates, as they are simply geographical entities to me, the same as cities, states, bridges, rivers, mountains, dams, parks, forests, etc. The locations of all major ones and many minor ones are widely published and need no original research on anyone's part.
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any way around this? 2) I am willing to put it in
Wikimedia Commons but can't find how to do that, and can't find how to see what is already in the Commons. 3) When I go to the left hand column on Will's article and click on Upload File, I get a page that says to click here to be guided through the procedure, but nothing happens when I click there. Is this because I have not done 10 edits? 4) I am happy to add the copyright tag but don't know how to add a tag to the picture. I used iPhoto software to put a title and tag on the picture, is that going to be sufficient? Thanks for your help.
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his email if necessary. As for references, it sounds like you are saying that only something published in a book can be used, and that my personally knowing Will does not constitute factual knowledge. I find this hard to believe and difficult to work with. In our experience, the authors of books about Will get some of the facts wrong. I was trying to make sure the wikipedia article about him is correct, so that people will know the truth instead of getting distorted information from the published books. Will stopped granting interviews to authors because they would often misquote him.
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had an interest in the subject but that need not have been the case. I, personally, have avoided writing a large number of articles on sensitive locations from the many sources which I have for the very reason of protection. All I am asking is that a reliable source be provided for geocoords of sensitive locations with no hint of original research. Ideally such a source should be provided for all locations but I am not pedantic.
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periodism 1st cemestro, so maybe my english is not correctly translated or info has been exagerated, baceause the article forms part of fame enlargement project, totally legal in the site since possitivity is being englarged . . Please let me check the info and please wait until
Tuesdey 31 when the info will be meticulously corrected by a professional, but the link needs to stay for public cntributions. Thanks. --
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information, which I admit would be original research. Perhaps one area that I might improve on is to consider that some people may not want this data to be widely disseminated. However, as I have stated, nothing that I reveal is a state secret nor is unavailable upon fairly basic research of already published documents. In this particular instance I have given you the specific source.
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883:. This discussion revolves around the common US practice of not publishing cave locations for sensitive caves. A consensus was reached to remove the coordinates parameter from the infobox template to remove the temptation to add coordinates to every cave article. Discussion continues along those lines at the present time; but this discussion has sparked a question in my mind.
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then, gates can be cut. I know of a gate cutting incident which happened less than two weeks ago. Caves (particularly 'significant' caves on federal lands) are also protected by the
Federal Cave Resources Protection Act which, among other things, limits publishing locations for significant caves. My question is is it possible to
1425:. My intention was certainly not to overload this nice page with useless information, just to orient the curious reader loving caves and science, as I do. I hope you can understand this point of view and I would certainly appreciate if you could cancel the revert you did. You can reply here. Thank You. Best regards,
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and upload there. I am not sure what restrictions are in place at that site; but, once uploaded and properly licensed, those images can be inserted in
Knowledge (XXG) articles. The upload wizard should guide you through the steps to license it for public domain. It has a graphical guide with links to
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true, this has also the disadvantage that useful links pointing to interesting topics or scientific questions dealing with similar extraordinary crystallizations are lost. My intention was only to create new links to open new perspectives to the reader of the page. In this sense, the removal you did
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Hi
Nancyscrowther. Yes, you understand what I am telling you about reliable sources. Statements made on Knowledge (XXG) must be based on published, reliable sources. Personal knowledge does not count. That is the way it works. I very well understand the problems with accuracy and completeness in the
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You say first I have to upload the picture. Obviously I have to do that. The question is how. I don't see anything to click on to upload a picture. I do have rights to the picture; Severo
Ornstein gave me the picture and said it would be a good one to add to the wikipedia article. I can forard
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or at least suppress edits which add unsourced coordinates or location information to cave articles especially sensitive caves which are partially protected by this secrecy? I know of a few edits which I would like to see oversighted in this regard. Most edits which add these coordinates or location
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hi. i just want to make link in every country page, because i want to know what is the telephone numbers in every country. i prefer to make link if the page is already made. for cambodia, i didn't want to make link for cambodia, because page +855 is not exist. i also want to help everybody who wants
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Hey
Wtucker, I've seen your spirited defence of the Cambodia article, great job. I'm sorry that I killed a couple of new links that were added to the article by another editor, after you carefully formatted them. There's quite a bit of shameless self promotion by organisations working here - I think
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I have a picture of Will
Crowther to insert in his article. I took the picture on October 8, 2012. I am releasing it into the public domain. I have read all the articles about uploading, and have a number of questions. 1) Apparently I can't upload an image until I have made 10 edits. Is there
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My first consideration for anything that I edit and post is factuality, and secondly, relevance to the topic. All of the locations that I post are available on published documents, mostly from official government sources. I do not go around to various localities armed with a GPS device to obtain my
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not to publish cave locations. In fact, members of the NSS agree to that practice. This policy is to help protect the caves from vandalism and looting and to reduce the accidents involving those who enter caves unprepared. Some caves can be protected by gates but not all caves can be gated and even
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button and then scroll all of the way to the bottom of the page and it will indicate whether you got the category right (it will show up at the bottom) or messed it up (it will appear as black text or as a red, non-existent category). Let me know if you have any more questions and I'll try to help!
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and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion
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I appreciate your intention and your pleasant and respectful request; however, I will not revert my removal. If the addition were more directly related to the topic at hand, namely
Lechuguilla Cave, it would be more useful. But, 4 links to articles which have nothing to do with Lechuguilla and are
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It does not take someone knowledgeable in the subject to write an article from reliable sources which is the way it is supposed to work. This particular article does have sources but not for the geocoords. The history seems to indicate that the article may have been started by someone who at least
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I can understand your reasoning for not wanting such data to be published, whether verifiable or not. I have no reason to want to see the destruction of sensitive places by the stupid and careless. My biggest question for you and other people with your particular interests is that, if you want the
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to me. A GPS device is not required. OR is most often conducted through publications. If the geocoords were published in a reliable source, that is different but deriving them by searches and discernment is original research. I, personally, don't mind the geocoords for locations such as commercial
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I notice that you have twice removed my geographical coordinates for having been unsourced. As stated in my latest edit, the source is the United States Geological Survey. In this particular case, they use a variation of the name, "Conklings Cave", but I am sure that they are referring to the same
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Since you have an obvious conflict of interest with this particular subject, it would be better if you could point us to reliable sources which talk about your husband. Just add notes to the article talk page describing the source. Then, let others with no conflict of interest make the edits from
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As an example, " Caving in New Zealand" sorts alphabetically before " Caving rescues in New Zealand" (which does not exist, but this is an example only). By simplifying the sort to " " only, you thus remove important info for the auto-sorting. This of course applies to all cats. Cheers and happpy
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and can be removed on those grounds and for lack of a source. Editors can remove coordinates and location information but they still appear in the history -- I would like to see an oversight policy or procedure which allows these edits to be expunged. Possible and, if so, how do I go about doing
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is a real band and the article don't attempt against truthness. What may sounds ridiculous to someones, sounds amazing for others, and this people is fighting to reach fame. With this article we try to allow, through massive means, the total recognition of the group. I'm italian, and i'm studing
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Helllo WTucker - you recently changed the sorting for the cat of Caving in New Zealand. You replaced " Caving in New Zealand" (note the leading space) with " ". Now both of these place the article at the start of the Caves of New Zealand cat list - where it should be. However, the longer version
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First, let me add my welcome to Knowledge (XXG). It looks like you are jumping right in and making useful contributions in a area with which you have some expertise. Your intuition on categorization is basically correct, but I will add a couple of suggestions. Unless there is a good reason to do
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I am not sure I can help you with all of these questions; but, I will try. I am not really aware of the 10 edit limit. I knew there was some kind of limit; and, I don't think there is a way around it. Commons is a different site -- a sister project. To upload to commons you will need to go to
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The pictures in question were not a crop. They were a picture taken on a digital camera that I own. Is taking a picture of something that I could also take a picture of really a copyright violation? To be honest, if I actually had the time to be taking pictures in caves I would, or if I lived
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An aside on the topic of verifiability: Taken to the extreme, verifiability is nothing more than agreement, which does not necessarily have anything to do with factuality. If Knowledge (XXG) had been published a thousand years ago it could probably have been verified that the earth was flat.
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I have a question. I wish to start a discussion on the practice of adding unsourced geographic coordinates to articles. Recently I have even noticed a bot adding these coordinates sourced only to interwiki articles which are themselves unsourced. These geocoordinates are often the result of
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to me. I am not being pedantic here. This cave is fragile and publishing the geographic coordinates would only serve to invite the unprepared, the ignorant and possibly the unscrupulous to visit and maybe do damage. I would also like for you to reconsider your practice of adding geographic
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is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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Hi. I did look at the history and saw the redirect version (remnants of which still remained in the article); but, after some research, I determined that the redirect was inappropriate and delete was the better choice. Thanks for your consideration and actions in the matter.
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item, since the location fits the article's text description of the site just about exactly. It can be found at their usual geographical names search website. I will however not attempt to enter the coordinates a third time, as I am sure that you would again remove them.
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I apologize if I sounded angry in my message. I wasn't angry at all. A lot of the time its frustrating because people think I have a "tone". It really doesn't make any sense how someone can pick a tone "tone" out of a written message. Sorry if I came of as defensive.
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and a few others. i am about to run out of time for now so I may pick it up again in a few days if I find the gumption and there are no serious objections. Thank you again for the useful reminder. It has caused me to reconsider my efforts here once again.
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WTucker, Thanks for your welcome and the great information! I will review the articles and definitely assist with the Cave Projects editing on Wiki. I have some great pics I've taken of several Texas Caves that I'd like to add (once I figure out how).
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is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
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in general is a bit much. The reader has many options for finding these tangential topics including categories, links, and the ever present search box among others. They are not lost just not very helpful to the Lechuguilla Cave article itself.
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but I believe these links are slightly broken. First the leading plus sign is confusing and was not there prior to the changes to add the wikilink. The only article which I have found which seemed to find the leading plus sign important was
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anywhere near a cave for that matter... And anyway if taking a picture of a photo is a copyright violation, then whose to say that a real picture of the same thing isn't. This may or may not sound ridiculous to you, but it doesn't to me.
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located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you!
1509:). In it, I suggested that unreferenced coordinates could be hidden from view. I wasn't set on the idea from the beginning and now I am wholely against it. Unreferenced should simply add to a tracking category and nothing else.
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I hope this helps you get started. I plan to put a welcome message on your talk page (if someone has not already beaten me to it) with some links to articles that will help you to better understand how Knowledge (XXG) works.
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otherwise, avoid placing an article in two categories where one encloses the other (has a parent-child or grandparent-grandchild, etc. relationship). There is no problem placing an article in sibling categories, such as
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1747:. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose
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Okay got ya. Yeah coordinate references are only needed for those that are challenged. In this case, any cave coordinate has a higher likelihood of being challenged when it appears to be original research.
2040:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
1962:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
1889:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
1816:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
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those sources. You can comment on the progress to discuss the changes if you think they can be improved -- again, on the article talk page. This is the best way to do it in this particular situation.
696:, remeber to check its history first. If there is a previous version that does not have the deficits that make it eligible for deletion (like in this case), revert to it instead of tagging. Regards
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I appreciate you informing me and would like to thank you. I understand what was wrong with the images; it was a mix-up, and purely accidental. I also found the source of the images on the web
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132:, if they both apply. The "strange and obscure" articles do tend to get left in the general category until there are enough to article to justify creation of a new category. With respect to
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1112:(nor factuality). Searching through a database for a variation of a feature name then comparing the location description for fit then publishing the resulting geocoords sounds exactly like
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made contact me before you put any more of my uploaded pictures on wikipedia up for deletion. I am not always able to be on wiki, and would like an opportunity to defend my work. Thanks!
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related to adding unsourced geocoords in general. I posted on your talk page to discuss the specific edits of your bot. But, again, I apologise. I did not intend to slight you. Thanks.
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caves and will not argue the original research point for them; but, for sensitive locations, I will argue it if not verifiable from a reliable source. Thanks for your consideration.
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with your request. It's not handled 'on-wiki' for reasons that I hope are obvious - ie by 'drawing attention' to the specific edits required just creates more needs for oversight.
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Sorry about nuking your comment. There was an edit conflict, and I looked for other edits but I didn't see yours for some reason. I certainly didn't intend to delete your comment.
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represent a loss of information for the curious reader. I am aware that there also exist narrow interpretations of the functionality of the ==See also== section in the WP policy
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1234:) or carrying GPS devices into the field. I would like to start a long overdue discussion about this practice in a visible place. How do I go about doing this? Thanks.
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811:. My efforts are to remove the leading plus sign as it was before while preserving the effort to add the wikilink. And, in a few cases the redirect is bad such as
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I was all ready to AfD this but, like you, I waited for the meticulous corrections. I've added PROD2 and put some of my researches on the talk page. Regards,
140:, go ahead and create the categories. If you are not sure how to create new categories, just ask (hint: click on the red links and add its parent category).
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Hey WTucker... I didn't understand what you meant by your comment "hidden behavior" on the cave template infobox discussion. Could you clarify it for me?
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to Knowledge (XXG)! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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No problem. I figured as much and said so in my comment on the restore. I never thought it was intentional. Thanks for your courtesy in explaining.
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is used for articles that are incoherent and gibberish, e.g. "The Smurfs is a ~'dlfkutns fnnkcjwf !£)(&*%^%$ ", rather than for hoaxes.
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thanks. I havent check all the links. if the link is incorrect i will make it right. I noticed problem with +44. I have make correction.
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because nobody stupid enough to confuse the two should be allowed within 200 miles of an encyclopedia; also because it's an internet
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which I have now returned allows more specific sorting WITHIN the number of articles that should be at the top of said cat.
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on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out
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No problem. I was just concerned with the format, not the content. I support the removal if you think it is inappropriate.
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Short summary: there's a need for some sort of Infobox European Cave, or something. Goatchurch 08:54, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
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Thank you! I was wondering what happened to that comment. Thanks for taking the time to let me know. Have a great day!
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147:. One thing that took me a while to figure out is that when you are adding a category to an article, you can select the
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to
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You have done the right thing by listing it as a possible copyright violation. Would you remove your question from
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Yes, I am done with the sandbox. Thanks for letting me use it for a while to work out the coordinates ref stuff.
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As the operator of the bot in question, I note that you appear to have forgotten to inform me of your edits at
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coordinates to sensitive locations such as wild caves, and unprotected historic sites. Thank you, again.
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I have a question for the administrators -- I hope this is a good forum to attempt to ask that question.
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on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a
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I and the cave managers appreciate your consideration, thank you. What you are describing sounds like
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instead of the main category article. No offence to your nice piece of formatting work intended :)
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media, especially news sources or short cycle publications; but, that is how it works around here.
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with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going
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doesn't have a complementary hatnote "for the Cambodian dictator, see". Utterly fatuous. Thanks.
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Sorry about my typo's, it is quite difficult to type on an ipod, the controls are so sensitive...
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regarding my bot's edits. I would have greatly appreciated the courtesy if you had done so. --
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with some editors going so far as to search databases for similar geographic feature names (see
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can be used for really obvious hoaxes but a prod will do the job here. You may find this essay
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I hope there are not any copyright problems; I spent quite a lot of time making this article.
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this was an example. I think NGO descriptions (and then maybe their website links) belong in
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I missed out on the debate on cave location coordinates. I've put some comments here:
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requesting that it be speedily deleted from Knowledge (XXG). This has been done under
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A rather late "thank you" for your work on removing the weasel words in the article
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just whats wrong with mine ? I guess there is no vandalism, so whats the problem ?
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tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with
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used for "lulz", so does us no credit at all to have it there. Please note that
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You can compare, what I added is only pictures, so you can restore them please ?
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Hello The Anome. I apologise if you felt slighted in any way. My post at
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People born more than a couple hundred years ago are not typically still
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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Hi there. When tagging an article for speedy deletion like you did with
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are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Knowledge (XXG)
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You recently removed a newly created "See also" section on the page on
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If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may
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Sorry about that. It was obviously a mistake. Thanks for catching it.
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