579:. Touche. But I for one don't think it wise to compare a gaming magazine (that tends to give bonus points for buying ad-space) to a scientific journal. Don't get me wrong, I think this COULD work. I just don't think this is how it should be done. This is a lot like looking at an Easter Eggs topic on GameFAQs. They list a lot of stuff, but most of those aren't easter eggs. The same is true here. The crate one for example is a known cliche. But most of the ones here are either gaming traditions/conventions, or just a case of saving resources (not showing every single item on the character), or just good gameplay (not having to make sure that the inseam is right for your platemail). However, I really don't see the current creators of this page cleaning it up (just judging by the listing of "cliches" in the discussion page. And just a quick bit of info on the last attempt to delete this, I really don't think that is a good example of why it should be saved. Look at it, most of it is just "This is really cool, keep it."
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chain? Wire? Two pick-axes? Metal-bars? Arguable as a weapon, but not so much a prying object. That IS why crowbars exist. The toilet one is just pathetic. Barrels, yeah that is funny (and probably a cliche at this point). The last three are more gameplay or engine limitations than not. So then, all that is left are two of the entries.
1171:. Any article can be cleaned up. The question is, what will be left afterwards? And will it still be purely opinion? In this case, there are only two that are widely accepted as cliche, and even those can't be backed up by anything better than gaming magazines (many of which do whatever it takes to cater to those who buy adspace).
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is "a phrase, expression, or idea that has been overused to the point of losing its intended force or novelty", a definition that clearly applies to the majority of the information here, e.g. "long metal bars or simply crowbars are common in point-and-click adventure games in order to break and open
948:
Just going over them,. the crate one is still arguable (but probably deserves its own page since, let's face it, it is an icon of gaming). String and rope, when used in puzzles, almost always are used for their intended purpose. Just being used a lot doesn't a cliche make. Would you rather they use
422:
Almost the entire thing is opinion, and many of these aren't cliches. A few of these might benefit from their own page (the crate one), but most of them are just a case of computers not having the power (displaying everything you carry at all times) or common sense (not having 40 different sizes of
902:
use of crates, Instant-use
Medipacks(And the Turkey Leg of Healing found in the trash), One-Size-Fits-All armor, and the ever-popular Exploding Barrel. Sure, we can toss the crowbar section, and maybe cut the toilets one down to size, but those two don't necessitate the removal of the
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This needs some clean-up, but has a decent foundation fo references. There's no sense throwing the whole article away because not every point in comes from one of said references. Either delete the unreferenced parts or find references, but don't delete the whole thing.
552:" right? =) If a couple of journalists from different mags get the bright idea to bash out an article that goes "X,Y, and Z are beginning to sound like cliches", and happen to agree on those, I'm betting that's a reasonable fact to be included to
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used in real life for breaking and opening things. As for cleaning up the article, as
Wickthework mentioned below, since so much of the content is original research, removing it would leave the article too short to merit either an article or a
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1055:- Almost entirely original research. Simply having two references doesn't mean the rest of it isn't OR. If you remove the offending content, there simply isn't enough information on the subject to warrant an article or stub.
764:
of the article is original research, so you can't really remove it without having to delete it instead. Either way, even if the article is cleaned up, most (if not all) the item cliches mentioned in the article are
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in FPS video games involving humans, which is obvious in that there are many humans who use toilets now. Also, some cliches don't apply only to video games, but to all forms of media, including books, films.
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First of all, most of the items mentioned in the article logically appear in the video games due to their setting. For example, toilets would logically appear in an FPS involving humans since humans
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If it survived once, would not the better action be to revert to that better version that everyone supported rather than delete what once was considered good enough to belong here?
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things" or "in many first-person shooters and the occasional RTS, exploding barrels are frequently seen". By the way, note that your comment didn't show out properly. Cheers, —
645:
the article seems the right option. Comments about the encyclopedic nature of the list are irrelevant since many clichés-related articles exist, but nevertheless, since when
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While it might be hard to determine criteria for the inclusion of cliches on this page, it nonetheless registers conventional norms that typify a notable art form. See also
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539:. That is jut it, even then it is still purely opinion. EGM may show that these have been referred to as Cliche in the past, but that does not a cliche (or fact) make.
1182:. Not OR due to sources being present. Not gamecruft (comedy and other things have this) and actually a very intresting article (which IMO wikipedia needs more of).
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Lol, actually they're more than "standards", and of course all users should follow them. But you didn't answer my question, dude. The two policies you quoted are
327:
as per Grue. I don't see what you guys are objecting to regarding references. I see a half-dozen external links, and a slew of inline examples. Perhaps the term
548:
Kind of like "A peer-reviewed journal may state a scientific foundations of new theory are solid in light of our current knowledge, but that doesn't make it
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criterias. Most of these so-called "cliches" would obviously appear in a video game depending on the game's setting. For example, one cliche is finding
205:, as it is now, there are two references for all the article, plus some external links. Remove everything that is not referenced, or just delete. --
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Yes, that is the case. The original cliche articles was split into characters, items and settings as it had grown to an unwieldly length.
989:. Simply observing it isn't enough to merit keeping an article, as it also needs verification for non-trivial, notable media sources.--
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article on the subject. Ludologists are still rare, we need to rely on other, less glamorous authorities too, like journalists. --
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as this article could be cleaned up, and improved. I would also accept moving to another wiki if a suitable one can be named.
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well referenced article, survived VfD already. I wonder whether you read it at all (both the article and the previous VfD).
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c) Applies to all forms of media, such as having potions and healing herbs (which appears in most fantasy-related media).--
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are closely related, and given that the list has survived a previous AFD by nearly 100% of support, I would say that
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Mayhaps because this article was split from a larger cliché article and some cleanup still needs to be done? --
245:. Though it may have survived one VfD already, how does that make it immune from being nominated for another?--
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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use of toilets for humor or grossness factors. And those two don't discount the Piece of String, the use of
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If this article must be deleted then all clichés-related lists on
Knowledge (XXG) must be AFD'd too, e.g.
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459:. It's an interesting article, but it doesn't belong anywhere apart from userspace. One example being
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could be reworded to something less POV, but given the references cited it might be difficult. --
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b) Logically there and not actually cliches, such as toilets in FPS' involving computer games.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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in the article has been verified since the citations link to websites on gaming cliches in
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a reason for an article's deletion; in fact, the list can be easily improved by including
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clichés. As for the two policies I've cited, though they may be related, they are still
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Computer and video game character stereotypes
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Well... the previous AfD seems to have been on computer and video game clichés in
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list on clichés (like the ones you've mentioned above), but one concentrating on
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/List of fighting game character stereotypes
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is not a reason for deleting it. Got it? Also, according to
Knowledge (XXG) a
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974:: Seems to be valid to me. I've observed all of the listed phenomena.
343:, because most of the external links are on articles which talk about
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Well, actually the majority of the information here is certainly not
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considered "not a reason for an article's deletion"? Also, virtually
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The
Crowbar, I can give you, but the Toilet section refers to the
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and therefor considered a standard that all users should follow.--
637:, and so on. It should also be noted that both policies quoted by
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a) Due to technological restrictions in video games, such as the.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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I don't see how an argument for verfiability can be made when
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Also, note that many of these "cliches" are mostly due to
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per previous AfDs. In my vehement opinion, this article
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The very act of calling these cliches is largely POV.
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material. And finally, if you didn't noticed before
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
134:, were both nominated and then deleted later on.--
1204:). No further edits should be made to this page.
193:- POV, original research and no verifiability.
403:in video games, such as "One Size Fits All".--
1022:, and many others said, AFD is not cleanup. —
832:; the article certainly needs some work, but
299:as unencyclopedic essay and as per all above
8:
601:be made to work in a proper fashion. AfD is
191:List of fighting game character stereotypes
435:. Funny but definitely not encyclopedic.
217:per everyone's well-explained rationale.
1092:Though there are external links, hardly
488:Note: This debate has been added to the
725:redirects here; the page was moved by
677:Note that this nomination is not on a
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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59:Computer and video game item clichés
1133:per above. AfD is not a clean up.
108:and survived with almost 100% keep
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189:for the same reasons I nominated
126:, a few similar AfD's , such as
723:Computer and video game clichés
447:, hardly an encyclopedic list.
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1043:per all of the above "Keep"s.
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830:violation of official policies
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1:
1100:, not specifically items. --
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631:list of comic book clichés
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345:gaming cliches in general
1197:Please do not modify it.
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351:cliches.--
69:unverified
907:article.
732:Cheers, —
715:footnotes
524:Mitaphane
494:Mitaphane
423:armour).
195:NeoChaosX
154:Also see
1094:anything
987:Commment
892:promient
758:policies
691:policies
550:factual,
478:Contribs
263:Janizary
207:ReyBrujo
1173:Gundato
1169:Comment
1108:TaLk?!?
1098:general
1026:SHINING
1012:Wwwwolf
997:TaLk?!?
951:Gundato
946:Comment
882:TaLk?!?
826:cleanup
798:TaLk?!?
765:either:
701:TaLk?!?
679:general
651:cleanup
643:keeping
608:wwwwolf
581:Gundato
577:Comment
559:wwwwolf
541:Gundato
537:Comment
425:Gundato
411:TaLk?!?
397:Comment
370:wwwwolf
359:TaLk?!?
341:Comment
333:Roninbk
282:TaLk?!?
272:general
253:TaLk?!?
243:Comment
179:eaolson
175:Delete.
166:TaLk?!?
142:TaLk?!?
124:Comment
92:TaLk?!?
81:toilets
1053:Delete
1045:Altair
905:entire
898:, the
874:stub--
838:cliché
828:for a
617:growls
568:growls
457:Delete
445:Delete
433:Delete
420:Delete
379:growls
329:cliche
301:Bwithh
297:Delete
215:Delete
203:Delete
187:Delete
84:etc.--
1136:Havok
936:SAMAS
909:SAMAS
683:items
613:barks
564:barks
520:WP:OR
508:Keep:
375:barks
233:Grue
114:Grue
73:WP:OR
50:Bobet
16:<
1180:Keep
1161:Nkcs
1157:Keep
1131:Keep
1119:Keep
1080:talk
1041:Keep
1031:EYES
1008:Keep
972:Keep
959:Keep
932:Keep
900:over
853:talk
834:that
744:talk
687:item
665:talk
595:Keep
528:talk
498:talk
461:here
349:item
325:Keep
309:Keep
227:Keep
130:and
77:WP:V
75:and
67:and
48:. -
1103:TBC
1010:As
992:TBC
877:TBC
871:are
793:TBC
762:all
711:not
696:TBC
653:? —
639:TBC
603:not
599:can
554:any
512:EGM
472:ONE
466:THE
463:. o
406:TBC
354:TBC
277:TBC
248:TBC
161:TBC
137:TBC
87:TBC
1150:)
1140:(T
1018:,
1014:,
979:✎☠
633:,
629:,
619:)
570:)
492:.
381:)
110:.
1148:c
1146:/
1144:C
1142:/
1083:)
1077:(
856:)
850:(
747:)
741:(
668:)
662:(
615:/
611:(
566:/
562:(
480:)
476:(
469:r
377:/
373:(
315:.
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