Knowledge (XXG)

:Articles for deletion/Cardinals–Royals rivalry (2nd nomination) - Knowledge (XXG)

Source 📝

713:
this as a "prominent rivalry" and elaborated upon such, which was inserted by another editor(s) long before I got involved) and turn it into a separate article. Why that has been met with such hostility when I've demonstrated that less notable "rivalries" containing less sources have been immune to such criticism is beyond me. If you want to trim the fat of Knowledge (XXG) sports rivalries to only the most prominent and noteworthy, be my guest, but I'd ask that you at least be consistent while doing so and give the other less prominent rivalry articles similar treatment. Otherwise, if those other articles are given an indefinite time to grow and improve, I see no reason why this one should be treated so differently. Up to all of you, I suppose.
52:. The last AfD on this article was a little over a month ago, ending with a weak consensus to keep the article, and a note that if it goes unimproved for awhile it will likely end up back at AfD. However, a month is really not quite enough time to wait before renominating, and there isn't a strong consensus here one way or the other. I understand the nominator wasn't aware of the previous nomination, and that's ok. Let's give this article at least 3 months or so before we send it back to the chopping block. 304:- for crying out loud, give it more than a month before you renominate something for deletion! I'm sorry I haven't yet had a chance to integrate the sources into the article, I have a life outside Knowledge (XXG). Admittedly, it would be useful if other people would contribute as well. Furthermore, I have not seen Knowledge (XXG)' policy on "compelling" sources, only 804:
problems are not. I don't edit Knowledge (XXG) on a daily basis, and frankly this article is not top on my list of priorities, though I may appear to be giving a rant to the contrary. It would be better if others could commit to this article but that hasn't been forthcoming and I'm not sure it will be under your timeline either.
654:. It's like saying Marlins and Yankees are a rivalry because they played against each other in the World Series and there is probably more Yankees fans than Marlins fans in Miami. Every local newspaper will mention any team playing each other as a rivalry. The first close was really a no consensus, so the AFD is valid here. 798:
As for the one-month time period, within that time period I think that I could commit to integrating the sources already found into the article. I cannot commit to finding more sources in that time that will satisfy your requirements, because frankly I'm not sure what exactly your requirements are.
786:
are relegated to "historical" unimportance baffles me. This might seem entirely unrelated to this current nomination, as Muboshgu said above, but it's not. If the watchers of the baseball articles are going to grant certain rivalries GA status and nominate others for deletion, then you need to set
567:
So is that a keep or a delete !vote? You didn't nominate the article for deletion, so you can't withdraw the nom. I'd say that a month is plenty of time for the editor to make at least one edit on the page to try to demonstrate notability, especially given that it's been at AfD for about ten days or
609:
I see that you actually edited out unsourced information from that article, but never saw fit to nominate it for deletion. Why not? It is less sourced than this article and its only references talk about how the rivalry is not really a rivalry. I'm legitimately curious about the distinction that
225:
does state that rivalries must demonstrate some form of notability). I looked at the references provided, and some of them simply were references to calling it the "I-70 Series" rather than asserting why this is notable, and at least two were just blog posts (one of them about how this "rivalry" is
730:
is another one that seems lacking for sources but is still in existence. It cites to Bleacher Report for crying out loud. I see Muboshgu nominated it for deletion in April 2011. That was over a year ago and no improvements appear to have been made. Again, all I'm asking for is consistency. If
663:
The Marlins and Yankees argument is a Strawman. It's not just playing each other in one World Series, it's the controversial Denkinger call, that they are located in the same state, and that they play each other six times each year in interleague play. Since we are on the topic of Florida teams,
712:
I honestly wish I could make a steadfast commitment to improving the article myself. Knowledge (XXG) is not my pseudo-occupation nor even a legitimate hobby. I simply identified something that was already mentioned in the rivalries sections of the articles (the Kansas City Royals page mentioned
803:
but that seems unsatisfactory to many who are simply convinced this is not a rivalry, and nothing seems likely to change that opinion. Nor do I see why this should be subject to such an arbitrary deadline of death when many of the other rivalry articles I've cited of similar (or worse) citation
757:
because editors might not have gotten around to correcting it. The fact that a discussion has started here and not there, is at least a sign that an attempt to improve some articles (if not immediately all article) is being made. Again, we are all volunteers here. Can you commit to a date (one
776:
Thanks for your concern, but I'm not taking it personally. My manner of speaking (and typing I suppose) is just very direct. By creating this article, I was simply trying to augment what already existed in the article entries for the respective teams. If this AfD ended in the article being
587:
or any of the other interleague rivalries that are similarly lacking!? I'll note that the number of sources identified for this article outnumber those cited in Citrus Series. Take a close look at Citrus Series, and you'll see that two of the four articles just cite to the respective team
582:
Maybe for people who do nothing but hang around editing Knowledge (XXG) all day! For people with families, jobs, lives, it might be a little more difficult. But I'm legitimately curious and never received an answer to this question - is there an intention to similarly delete
777:
deleted, I would not suffer for it. There are many other things going on in my life of much greater importance. What does bother me though is the inconsistency of Knowledge (XXG) standards across articles that fall into the same broad categories. Something like
781:
getting GA status when any Mets fan will tell you there was no rivalry prior to 2007 (and indeed, half the sources and half the article itself make no mention of a rivalry but are about individual games) while more established rivalry articles like
308:, which consensus determined were sufficiently identified only a month ago. This renomination is premature. There are many stub articles on Knowledge (XXG) that are given time to grow. If you delete this article then you should also nominate 90: 85: 684:
I !voted "weak keep" last time, mainly since "there's likely other tidbits floating around about the 'rivalry'". That was a presumption on my part. However, I am disappointed that more sources have not been identified to satisfy
190: 413: 820:
Frankly I don't like any of the rivalry articles.. Unless it involves long time established rivals (Red Sox/Yankees, Dodgers/Giants, Cubs/Cards) then I see no reason for it.. that includes the Phillies/Mets one you mention.
697:
recommendation, taking into account people have real lives, is for interested editors to agree on a timeline whereby sufficient sources will be identified so a consensus can be reached on notability. Would another month be
372:
I apologize, I was the nominator this time and did not see that it had been previously nominated so soon ago. Normally I probably would have noticed this but apparently did not check the talk page this time around.
649:
facing each other in the World Series is not a rivalry, no indication in national sources that this is a notable rivalry, it's all local, team, and some fan blogs sources some of which doesn't look like to be
80: 731:
that article deserves a keep and hasn't been renominated over the course of a year, then this one should be given more than a month! Otherwise delete this one if you must, but then I would expect
799:
You all seem to have different standards. One person does not think local news is reliable. Another sets forth that they must be "compelling" without defining that term. I simply went by
184: 150: 588:
histories, and the last two talk about how the rivalry...isn't considered much of a rivalry at all! Again, don't understand the unwarranted attention this article is receiving.
668:
without warranting an AfD, even when those two teams have never played each other in the World Series. I've yet to receive a satisfactory explanation for that double standard.
279: 498:.. Not a real rivalry. We don't need to write articles about every two teams that face each other. Needs to have a longstanding historical rivalry for it to be notable. 145: 118: 113: 548:. The last AfD was a month ago. I think the article probably should be deleted, it doesn't appear to have nearly the history of the interleague in-state (and in-city) 122: 689:'s requirement of multiple independent sources of significant coverage since the last AfD, which was a "weak keep" consensus. Note also that the article had been 552:
for instance which I think is in the bottom tier of notable rivalries. But regardless, this is too short of a period to allow for it to be saved in my opinion. --
105: 762:
and recreation of the article if sources are not found by that date but are identified at a later time. That seems to be the best compromise for all parties.—
244:
I didn't find the sources compelling last time, and I still don't now. Columnists needing to find something to write about does not make this a rivalry. –
844: 830: 813: 771: 748: 722: 707: 658: 633: 619: 597: 577: 562: 536: 507: 484: 475: 461: 447: 433: 396: 382: 362: 325: 293: 270: 253: 235: 63: 835:
I had no idea the Mets-Phillies rivalry page was at GA status. I don't question its right to exist, but I do agree that these pages get out of hand. –
800: 305: 205: 172: 795:, who was responsible for this second nomination. It's a two sentence blurb that doesn't provide much in the way of guidance...at all. 624:
I don't recall editing it. It may be a candidate for deletion as well. I'll consider it. It's not that relevant to this AfD, though. –
316:
which are similarly lacking in references. I'm not sure why this article has such a target painted on its chest, other than it's new.
109: 17: 166: 346: 787:
a much clearer standard for junior editors such as myself. So far the only Knowledge (XXG) policy I've seen on this subject is
162: 101: 69: 212: 875: 40: 753:
While it is understandably difficult sometimes, please try not to take the discussion of the article personally.
736: 727: 783: 261:- For the same reasons as in the last AfD just a few weeks ago. I don't think anything has changed since then. 651: 178: 754: 559: 452:
I'm a diehard Royals fan and I can attest to the fact that there is nothing prominent about this rivalry.
871: 778: 532: 36: 788: 417: 409: 387:
No problem, it happens. But if that's the case perhaps you should just consider withdrawing the AfD.
222: 826: 809: 744: 718: 673: 615: 593: 549: 503: 392: 342: 321: 58: 198: 759: 758:
month?) for identifying additional sources, with the understanding that there is no prejudice for
517: 840: 629: 573: 471: 443: 249: 767: 703: 554: 438:
I personally don't see this as "prominent". That's apparently the minority opinion, though. –
429: 358: 313: 289: 266: 29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
870:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
528: 457: 378: 231: 694: 686: 664:
the latter point seems to be notable enough to sustain other interleague rivalries such as
421: 350: 822: 805: 740: 714: 669: 611: 589: 499: 388: 338: 317: 53: 836: 732: 665: 625: 606: 602: 584: 569: 467: 439: 309: 245: 763: 699: 425: 354: 285: 262: 139: 739:
and other baseball "rivalries" of that nature to also end up in the cross-hairs.
792: 655: 481: 453: 374: 227: 520:
to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
414:
Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Alabama–Penn State football rivalry
864:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
91:
Articles for deletion/Cardinals–Royals rivalry (3rd nomination)
86:
Articles for deletion/Cardinals–Royals rivalry (2nd nomination)
349:) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this 690: 135: 131: 127: 197: 605:, looking through the history of the aforementioned 527:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 466:Perhaps it's not the minority opinion after all. – 211: 43:). No further edits should be made to this page. 878:). No further edits should be made to this page. 691:tagged with not meeting GNG since November 2011 480:@Bearian what is your opinion of "prominent". 221:This honestly isn't a very major rivalry (and 81:Articles for deletion/Cardinals–Royals rivalry 280:list of Baseball-related deletion discussions 8: 278:Note: This debate has been included in the 277: 78: 18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 7: 76: 424:, and I think this fits the bill. 24: 1: 895: 652:independent of the rivalry 448:17:57, 27 April 2012 (UTC) 434:17:37, 27 April 2012 (UTC) 408:per Tempdog, and based on 326:04:14, 27 April 2012 (UTC) 294:18:56, 26 April 2012 (UTC) 271:18:56, 26 April 2012 (UTC) 254:21:01, 25 April 2012 (UTC) 236:20:51, 25 April 2012 (UTC) 867:Please do not modify it. 784:Phillies-Pirates rivalry 226:becoming rather stale). 102:Cardinals–Royals rivalry 70:Cardinals–Royals rivalry 64:15:22, 11 May 2012 (UTC) 32:Please do not modify it. 845:22:40, 8 May 2012 (UTC) 831:22:22, 8 May 2012 (UTC) 814:22:03, 8 May 2012 (UTC) 772:00:56, 8 May 2012 (UTC) 755:Other stuff might exist 749:00:32, 8 May 2012 (UTC) 723:23:39, 7 May 2012 (UTC) 708:14:43, 5 May 2012 (UTC) 659:20:27, 3 May 2012 (UTC) 634:01:17, 8 May 2012 (UTC) 620:23:52, 7 May 2012 (UTC) 598:23:39, 7 May 2012 (UTC) 578:17:45, 3 May 2012 (UTC) 563:01:07, 2 May 2012 (UTC) 537:00:00, 2 May 2012 (UTC) 508:13:23, 1 May 2012 (UTC) 485:20:27, 3 May 2012 (UTC) 476:17:45, 3 May 2012 (UTC) 462:06:03, 1 May 2012 (UTC) 397:16:43, 3 May 2012 (UTC) 383:06:02, 1 May 2012 (UTC) 363:22:37, 8 May 2012 (UTC) 75:AfDs for this article: 779:Mets-Phillies rivalry 610:is being drawn here. 335:Note to closing admin 737:Brewers–Cubs_rivalry 728:Brewers–Cubs_rivalry 550:Mets-Yankees rivalry 418:prominent rivalries 48:The result was 539: 365: 314:Bay Bridge Series 296: 283: 886: 869: 801:reliable sources 557: 526: 522: 332: 306:reliable sources 284: 216: 215: 201: 153: 143: 125: 61: 56: 34: 894: 893: 889: 888: 887: 885: 884: 883: 882: 876:deletion review 865: 791:cited above by 555: 515: 158: 149: 116: 100: 97: 95: 73: 60:| confabulate _ 59: 54: 41:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 892: 890: 881: 880: 860: 859: 858: 857: 856: 855: 854: 853: 852: 851: 850: 849: 848: 847: 833: 796: 679: 678: 677: 644: 643: 642: 641: 640: 639: 638: 637: 636: 542: 541: 540: 524: 523: 512: 511: 510: 493: 492: 491: 490: 489: 488: 487: 478: 403: 402: 401: 400: 399: 367: 366: 329: 328: 298: 297: 274: 273: 256: 219: 218: 155: 96: 94: 93: 88: 83: 77: 74: 72: 67: 46: 45: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 891: 879: 877: 873: 868: 862: 861: 846: 842: 838: 834: 832: 828: 824: 819: 818: 817: 816: 815: 811: 807: 802: 797: 794: 790: 785: 780: 775: 774: 773: 769: 765: 761: 756: 752: 751: 750: 746: 742: 738: 734: 733:Citrus Series 729: 726: 725: 724: 720: 716: 711: 710: 709: 705: 701: 696: 692: 688: 683: 680: 675: 671: 667: 666:Citrus Series 662: 661: 660: 657: 653: 648: 645: 635: 631: 627: 623: 622: 621: 617: 613: 608: 607:Citrus Series 604: 601: 600: 599: 595: 591: 586: 585:Citrus Series 581: 580: 579: 575: 571: 566: 565: 564: 561: 560: 558: 551: 547: 544: 543: 538: 534: 530: 525: 521: 519: 514: 513: 509: 505: 501: 497: 494: 486: 483: 479: 477: 473: 469: 465: 464: 463: 459: 455: 451: 450: 449: 445: 441: 437: 436: 435: 431: 427: 423: 419: 415: 411: 410:past outcomes 407: 404: 398: 394: 390: 386: 385: 384: 380: 376: 371: 370: 369: 368: 364: 360: 356: 352: 348: 344: 340: 336: 331: 330: 327: 323: 319: 315: 311: 310:Citrus Series 307: 303: 300: 299: 295: 291: 287: 281: 276: 275: 272: 268: 264: 260: 257: 255: 251: 247: 243: 240: 239: 238: 237: 233: 229: 224: 214: 210: 207: 204: 200: 196: 192: 189: 186: 183: 180: 177: 174: 171: 168: 164: 161: 160:Find sources: 156: 152: 147: 141: 137: 133: 129: 124: 120: 115: 111: 107: 103: 99: 98: 92: 89: 87: 84: 82: 79: 71: 68: 66: 65: 62: 57: 51: 44: 42: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 866: 863: 760:userfication 698:sufficient?— 681: 646: 553: 546:Withdraw AfD 545: 516: 495: 420:are usually 405: 334: 301: 258: 241: 220: 208: 202: 194: 187: 181: 175: 169: 159: 50:no consensus 49: 47: 31: 28: 789:WP:NRIVALRY 529:Ron Ritzman 223:WP:NRIVALRY 185:free images 55:‑Scottywong 823:Spanneraol 806:TempDog123 741:TempDog123 715:TempDog123 695:good faith 670:TempDog123 612:TempDog123 590:TempDog123 556:NINTENDUDE 500:Spanneraol 389:TempDog123 339:TempDog123 318:TempDog123 872:talk page 286:• Gene93k 37:talk page 874:or in a 837:Muboshgu 626:Muboshgu 603:Muboshgu 570:Muboshgu 518:Relisted 468:Muboshgu 440:Muboshgu 412:such as 347:contribs 246:Muboshgu 146:View log 39:or in a 764:Bagumba 700:Bagumba 682:Comment 426:Bearian 422:notable 355:Bagumba 263:Rlendog 191:WP refs 179:scholar 119:protect 114:history 793:Kansan 693:. My 687:WP:GNG 656:Secret 647:Delete 568:so. – 496:Delete 482:Secret 454:Kansan 375:Kansan 242:Delete 228:Kansan 163:Google 123:delete 206:JSTOR 167:books 151:Stats 140:views 132:watch 128:links 16:< 841:talk 827:talk 810:talk 768:talk 745:talk 735:and 719:talk 704:talk 674:talk 630:talk 616:talk 594:talk 574:talk 533:talk 504:talk 472:talk 458:talk 444:talk 430:talk 406:Keep 393:talk 379:talk 359:talk 343:talk 322:talk 312:and 302:Keep 290:talk 267:talk 259:Keep 250:talk 232:talk 199:FENS 173:news 136:logs 110:talk 106:edit 353:. — 351:XfD 213:TWL 148:• 144:– ( 843:) 829:) 812:) 770:) 747:) 721:) 706:) 632:) 618:) 596:) 576:) 535:) 506:) 474:) 460:) 446:) 432:) 416:- 395:) 381:) 361:) 345:• 337:: 333:— 324:) 292:) 282:. 269:) 252:) 234:) 193:) 138:| 134:| 130:| 126:| 121:| 117:| 112:| 108:| 839:( 825:( 808:( 766:( 743:( 717:( 702:( 676:) 672:( 628:( 614:( 592:( 572:( 531:( 502:( 470:( 456:( 442:( 428:( 391:( 377:( 357:( 341:( 320:( 288:( 265:( 248:( 230:( 217:) 209:· 203:· 195:· 188:· 182:· 176:· 170:· 165:( 157:( 154:) 142:) 104:(

Index

Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
talk page
deletion review
‑Scottywong
| confabulate _
15:22, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Cardinals–Royals rivalry
Articles for deletion/Cardinals–Royals rivalry
Articles for deletion/Cardinals–Royals rivalry (2nd nomination)
Articles for deletion/Cardinals–Royals rivalry (3rd nomination)
Cardinals–Royals rivalry
edit
talk
history
protect
delete
links
watch
logs
views
View log
Stats
Google
books
news
scholar
free images
WP refs
FENS
JSTOR

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.