893:. So it's not even national coverage in his own country. I'm saying Diez should not be considered a separate source from La Prensa, nor should multiple publications within La Prensa or within Diez count as separate sources. It's not "discrediting" Honduran newspapers to point out that only one Honduran media company is actually writing about this, and it's because he played for the team in their home city. The two sources, Diez and La Prensa, aren't intellectually independent of each other; the Diez SIGCOV example pulls directly from the La Prensa article. To my eyes, it doesn't meet the "multiple" requirement as explained at NBIO, NATHLETE, etc.
721:
multiple sources suggests that the topic may be more suitable for inclusion in an article on a broader topic. It is common for multiple newspapers or journals to publish the same story, sometimes with minor alterations or different headlines, but one story does not constitute multiple works. Several journals simultaneously publishing different articles does not always constitute multiple works, especially when the authors are relying on the same sources, and merely restating the same information. Similarly, a series of publications by the same author or in the same periodical is normally counted as one source.
675:.) If you look at the Diez article you link to, almost everything said in the journalist's voice are the same things said in the journalist's voice in the La Presna 2017 article, with similar details/anecdotes (used to be a coffee cutter, five siblings, loves his parents). There's sigcov in La Prensa and its sports paper Diez, but there isn't sigcov outside of that (that has been brought forward so far), so I don't see the "multiple sources" part of GNG being met.
1020:"Intellectual independence" requires not only that the content of sources be non-identical, but also that the entirety of content in a published work not be derived from (or based in) another work (partial derivations are acceptable) ... A biography written about a person contributes toward establishing his or her notability, but a summary of that biography lacking an original intellectual contribution does not.
534:, an in-depth interview in one of the nation's largest newspapers as routine and "looks like a standard new-guy-on-the-team interview"? I typically don't see any coverage of such non-notable players in major newspapers, unless they die suddenly or rob a bank. Sure, it's routine to have in-depth interviews of notable people in big newspapers. How can you suggest this doesn't meet GNG?
1064:
midfielder who is also selected U-20, even participated in the past
Central American and Caribbean Games in Colombia. Cálix is in the sights of clubs such as Olimpia, Motagua and Real España, but Atlas has negotiated the advantage and could sign in the course of the week once it arrives in Guadalajara.
1051:
The 19-year-old forward
Cristian Cálix decided not to continue with the Marathon of Honduras because he reached an agreement with the Atlas, which will be for four years. The young attacker is already in Mexico, to get the necessary medical studies and sign his contract. Cálix comes to Mexican soccer
692:
There are other Diez articles - you are cherry picking. There's more than enough material here from reliable sources to write an article; arguing that there's a convergence of media ownership in a remote part of a third-world nation, surely raises concerns of systemic bias! There are no hard-and-fast
603:
requirement - there isn't even a firm requirement to have more than one GNG source. You seem to be far more interested in non-existent rules - your time would surely be better spent improving the article. Are there other sources ... possibly ... I haven't even looked yet - I was simply shocked at how
568:
source that should not be used to establish notability. Another difference is that in the 2019 interview, almost all of the questions asked aren't about the player, but about the player joining a new team and how he feels about that. So it's not in-depth coverage of the player; it's the player giving
720:
There is no fixed number of sources required since sources vary in quality and depth of coverage, but multiple sources are generally expected ... Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability ... Lack of
1063:
The
Honduran Cristian Cálix is close to defending the colors of the Atlas for the Clausura 2019. This element is a promise of his country that according to some sources in Central America did not renew his contract with the club Marathon to come to the Foxes. The catracho is a 19-year-old extreme
946:
You have a self-noted bias against football biographies and you're trying to delete this on a false technicality. Many newspapers share a publisher. La Prensa and Diez are two separate and distinct publications. Considering AS.com has written multiple articles on him, and he's received coverage in
1035:
Cálix, who had already been summoned in the Copa MX to face the Pumas ... We must remember that Calix signed from last
December 28 with Atlas, but you know what it is to sweat the skin of the "Foxes" when he added his first minutes with the U-20 team in the draw to zero goals against Morelia, and
1095:
I think all of those are in depth, though the notiulti.com doesn't appear to be a RS, you're right. If they were the only articles then he'd be borderline/a weak keep, but they're not. Diez.hn has written about Cálix - where he's mentioned in the headline! - at least 20 times. He's so notable La
910:
And BTW, other editors may agree to disagree with my source analysis, but please don't tell me I'm discrediting
Honduran newspapers or that my reasoning has no basis in policy. I come to my conclusions by applying our notability guidelines (e.g., that multiple sources must be
303:
1052:
for the showcase that he offers, besides that economically he will be much better than with the
Marathon ... The young attacker was not acquired by Españyol of the Spanish League, he was on trial but he did not convince, and in the Marathon he did things well.
577:
independent reliable sources. The non-La Prensa sources put forward are Radio HRN (3 sentences) and Diario Mas (3 sentences). (AS 2018 appears to be a condensed version of the Diez 2018 interview linked above, so same source as La Prensa.)
717:
says about the need to have multiple sources, and why I think the Diez and La Prensa articles all count as one source, esp. the parts about multiple publications from the same organization and about "restating the same information":
563:
is that the 2017 article includes independent reporting in the publication's own voice. The 2019 article is a Q&A–all the content is coming from the player, not from the journalist. So I don't see it as independent, but as an
350:
does it say that GNG coverage can't be routine? Normally I see arguments that a paragraph or two in a local paper about a transfer is routine, and doesn't indicate notability. This was 11 paragraphs in a major publication.
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Several journals simultaneously publishing different articles does not always constitute multiple works, especially when the authors are relying on the same sources, and merely restating the same information.
645:
I did above, but you wrongly claimed that in-depth interviews don't count. There's also no end of coverage in Diez (which is a separate publication from La Prensa, despite the shared ownership. How is
919:) to the facts (e.g., La Prensa and Diez have the same owner; La Prensa is published in the city where the player plays; no other Honduran newspaper is publishing SIGCOV of the player).
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La
Tribuna - owned by a different company than Diez or La Prensa - has mentioned Cálix over a dozen times in their headlines (and then invariably link to diariomas.com).
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Article fails WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTBALL. Subject has not played in a fully professional league nor has be represented his nation at senior level or at the
Olympuc Games.
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article (see discussion of this point above). So AS 4 Aug 2018 = Diez 4 Aug 2018 = La Prensa 2017. I count those as the same source, and my reasoning is based in
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his opinions on a transfer. In the 2017 article, there is more content about the player himself. Finally, even if you count La Prensa 2019 as
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455:- that's not even counting the heaps of transfer-related stuff. Added to the fact the player has just joined Real Monarchs in the (
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is three sentences about his debut. Other than La Prensa 2017, I'm struggling to see how any of those sources count towards GNG.
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is just one of several newspapers in
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might count as SIGCOV, that's the only example I can find. Doesn't seem to meet GNG or NFOOTY.
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finds lots of recent media coverage. And two of the older sources in
Spanish Knowledge article
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I do not have a bias against footballers, I have a bias in favor of our notability guidelines.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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easily meets GNG with some of the sources referenced in the article and others. Particularly
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Diez and La Prensa are published by the same publisher, Organización Publicitaria, S.A. aka
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That so-called "BEFORE fail" would be more clearly demonstrated if you posted an example of
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to me, but even assuming that it is a reliable source, this is what it says about Calix:
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573:, it's still the same source as La Prensa 2017, so we don't have significant coverage in
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The first one - maybe. The second is just a routine article about his transfer to Atlas.
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I saw those sources but didn't see them as in-depth or non-routine enough to meet GNG.
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is six sentences about a game in which he scored his first goal for Atlas Sub-20.
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People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in
459:-listed) USL Championship, so a NFOOTY pass most likely isn't far away -
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Unless no Honduran newspaper is a reliable source anymore, Cálix
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rules - you are applying black-and-white rules that don't exist!
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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is La Prensa's sports paper). The biggest difference between
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appears to be the same interview as Diez 2018, just shorter.
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much I found in a few seconds, which clearly demonstrates a
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The second source you link to appears to be a mirror of
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The first new source SF linked to in the above comment,
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The only AS.com source I've seen put forward here is
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looks like a standard new-guy-on-the-team interview.
1066:Not seeing this one as in-depth enough to count as
376:'s list of association football-related deletions.
759:(emphasis added) Almost-identical language is at
279:list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1254:). No further edits should be made to this page.
865:by MediaLandscapes.org). Calix's first team was
277:Note: This discussion has been included in the
257:Note: This discussion has been included in the
883:that has the same owner as the local city paper
753:published secondary sources that are reliable,
1096:Prensa wrote a story on when his mother died.
990:, which is a summary of an interview in Diez (
52:. The consensus is that this footballer meets
501:is an interview about contract negotiations.
259:list of Football-related deletion discussions
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8:
111:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
372:Note: This discussion has been included in
595:An interview in a major newspapers is not
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913:intellectually independent of each other
755:intellectually independent of each other
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881:, plus coverage in the sports paper
857:, and El Heraldo, among others. See
1061:, here's what it says about Calix:
497:is five sentences about his debut.
423:- More than enough to satisfy GNG:
983:Let's look at those four sources:
626:that doesn't come from La Prensa.
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757:, and independent of the subject.
551:has a circulation of 61,000 (and
505:is a three-sentence game report.
891:any of the other Honduran papers
96:Introduction to deletion process
302:check for GNG sources? A quick
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
1146:- probably scrapes by on GNG.
885:. Quite to the point, what we
859:List of newspapers in Honduras
1:
1057:The third source you link to
1054:I don't see this as in-depth.
879:the new guy on the local team
1038:Not in-depth in my opinion.
86:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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1029:, does not appear to be a
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1244:Please do not modify it.
947:other locations such as
889:have (yet) is SIGCOV in
310:look pretty significant
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251:22:39, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
32:Please do not modify it.
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1167:Pharaoh of the Wizards
992:En entrevista con el
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84:Articles for deletion
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673:La Prensa (Honduras)
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374:WikiProject Football
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747:goes even further:
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463:at worst.
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1248:talk page
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839:La Prensa
624:WP:SIGCOV
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503:Radio HRN
499:Diez 2018
487:WP:SIGCOV
445:Radio HRN
429:La Prensa
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1250:or in a
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751:multiple
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575:multiple
461:Draftify
298:Did you
164:View log
105:glossary
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915:, that
810:passes
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745:WP:NBIO
507:AS 2018
346:Where,
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