323:- Haven't all the reasons for keeping this article on Knowledge (XXG) mentioned in the first deletion discussion? Also, if the info in this article is already repeated in the article about Osama's death, then i think this article is a more appropriate place to keep that info, as it has a generalized title. As noted in the previous deletion discussion, this article follows Knowledge (XXG)'s norms of notability and has reliable sources. As for POV, the first word of the title of the article is "Allegations". Regards,
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1392:, it might be a bit off. Deleting an article for a bad title is stupid anyway as it is just one click away from changing it. And the diverse content discussed in the article does not warrant merging and condensing the whole of the article to a single paragraph is not possible without missing key details given the extensive independent coverage this topis has received.
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This is true, but there's no need to do so when we can give sourced, encyclopedic treatment to both sides, presenting allegations of a
Pakistani support system for bin Laden along with information regarding Pakistan's cooperation with the US and its allies in tracking him down. That's why I think
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with the excuse of it being "allegations" do I sense some sort of double standards when it comes to
Pakistan? since this whole article is titled as a "allegation" it should be deleted just for its pov title again I could be misinterpreting everything but it seems some users have a conflict of
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The allegations have enough verifiable discussion and support to deserve mention on
Knowledge (XXG), regardless of whether or not the allegations themselves are true. Merging seems to be out of the question considering how long this article is. It seems best to keep the article as it is.
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I disagree with the nominator's proposal. After having had a good look at the article, the article doesn't seem to have a POV issue. Infact it covers well the scope laid out by the article title. And the title is certainly not POV pushing. If the title was
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The article is precisely described by it's title - a smokescreen of allegations. There has been no formal evidence officially proving the allegations, neither has the United States formally conveyed to
Pakistan that this is the case. This is
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I don't know if you're addressing me specifically or everyone who wants a merge, but I'm not the first one to suggest the article be merged. Inasmuch as the nominator said the article needs to be merged, I would have preferred that the
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is the right article to cover any allegations. A separate article only for the allegation seems to be out of the line as the title itself explains. Any useful info from this article can be merged there if loss of content is a concern.
1421:. This is just a POV fork of the content there and this is a reasonable location to relocate anything salvageable. That title alone shows this to be an article that is standing on thin grounds as being notable in and of itself as the
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The content and title of this article is very notable. As far as I know, Pakistan is accused of "harboring
Terrorists" by several governments, and it's also true that Osama bin laden was found to be living inside Pakistan.
1118:. Yes, it's unusual to recommend merging to another article up for AfD, but it looks very likely that that one will be kept. The title of this article does look a bit POV to me, so I think merging is a good option. --
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this is better addressed in a broader article about
Pakistan's role in the war on terror. Yes, this article is large compared to that one, but I think merging could help drive its expansion. --
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solution. Whether this supposed support network existed or not is irrelevant: the article is about the substantial corpus of allegations. And it is alleged this support network existed
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These allegations have been widely popular, and are completely due to warrant an article. Death of Laden is a different topic. Also I see no instance of obvious bias in the article.
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Are you distinguishing between "delete and merge" and "keep and merge" votes? I see both used at AfD, but they usually mean the same thing. I try to avoid double votes like that. --
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create an article even though its subject is a POV as long as that subject is presented neutrally. Even if the subject of any article is controversial, this does not
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Article could be improved. But clearly it is not about a Fringe theory and has substantial coverage in mainstream sources and easily verified. it's been discussed in
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Hey guys calm down however I am confused I noticed something tonight most of the users who voted "keep" on this AFD here are voting delete on another AFD
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which has made the scope of the article limited to only allegations on an entity thus making the whole article a non-neutral. Besides this article is a
1347:. Now, if you — or any other user — do not think that deletion is necessary, then a clear expression about that would be nice. That's all. Good day.
1247:. There's a distinction there, and I don't see any reason to delete or merge the article, especially when the merge target is large enough as is. -
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1266:(my rename) has comfortably survived AfD, I'll again suggest it as a logical merge target. Yes, it needs work, but that's the overarching topic. --
686:, it has more to do with Pakistan's actions while bin Laden was alive, so a merge there would be inappropriate. These action are widely reported
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same old same just written in a very pointy manner seems more like a article for pandering the individuals who have a certain pov of
Pakistan
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process be followed. But merging is a valid outcome at AfD, even if I think that fact is regularly abused when PM is more appropriate. --
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Are you really serious? That was completely a decent comment. Sorry if I am getting harsh, your comment applies more to you than others.
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802:. If you cannot find a proper internet chat forum for expressing your personal opinion, at least don't pollute a Knowledge (XXG) AfD.
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a speculative theory nor a baseless conspiracy theory. This article is about well-sourced allegations and that's what it is doing.
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accusations by various nations against
Pakistan about this exact topic (as demonstrated by the article itself). And this meets
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This is an AfD discussion, not a merging proposal, did I miss something? Hence, if you want this article to be deleted and
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article is exclusively about well-verified, very notable allegations (since it says so in its title) against
Pakistan from
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when wrongdoing is asserted but undetermined, such as with people on trial for crimes. When alleged or accused is used,
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as long as the title clearly indicates what its subject is, the point-of-view subject is presented neutrally
1181:. There are good arguments put forward by advocates of both retention and merging; in particular, I think
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Indeed, that article is once renamed and nominated for deletion before, yet we're seeing this nomination.
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interest I don't mean to offend you
Vibhijain et al who voted in the other AFD just a observation of mine
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So what's the problem if we kept this one when it has political ramifications and is a big issue itself?
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agree with Anir1uph. Neither a POV article nor a POV title. Factual article on a notable topic which is
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Articles for deletion/Allegations of support system in Pakistan for Osama bin Laden (3rd nomination)
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Articles for deletion/Allegations of support system in Pakistan for Osama bin Laden (2nd nomination)
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975:. This is an obvious POV fork and, seriously, an entire article built on the word "allegations"! --
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This is a POV article with POV title, all this content better needs to be merged with the article
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What I don't understand is how your observation is relevant in any of the deletion discussions.
755:, are you? You're here to outright delete the article, isn't that why you nominated the article
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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254:, except done in a more POV fashion. The POV running through this whole article also raises
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378:- per WP:GNG. also discussed in full at the previosu AfD. Dont see a reason for deletion.--
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make the new article a POVfork. BTW, I was addressing the pseudo-POV concerns raised by
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These allegations have been widely popular, and are adequate to warrant an article.
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Articles for deletion/Allegations of support system in Pakistan for Osama bin Laden
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There are well-grounded articles whose subject is based on a particular POV (e.g.
1016:, and each article cross-references articles on other appropriate points of view.”
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to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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As noted above, the article is redundant - this is a repeate of a section of
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I believe a section exists about the same thing this seems to be a case of
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This is a very notable topic which certainly warrants an article.
1243:- I don't think it's a POV article, but rather a sourced article
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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created on subjects which themselves represent points of view,
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Allegations of support system in Pakistan for Osama bin Laden
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Allegations of support system in Pakistan for Osama bin Laden
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Allegations of support system in Pakistan for Osama bin Laden
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all reflect a POV but they are existing, as they should be.
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What I'm humbly asking you — or any other user in favor of
1185:'s is a bold and elegant solution to a difficult problem.
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This AfD is needless and a POV itself. Read what I wrote
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add some relevant segments of this nominated article to
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690:, and notable, so this certainly warrants an article.--
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kindly specify why you think deletion is necessary.
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Pakistan's role in the War on Terror#Osama bin Laden
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Location of Osama bin Laden#Pakistan role in hiding
1147:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
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1468:ensure that the source of the accusation is clear
892:This account has been blocked as a sockpuppet of
661:This account has been blocked as a sockpuppet of
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1526:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1203:do remember what the article's title started as
299:list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions
223:, which already discuss this issue in detail.
277:list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions
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925:operatives, VP of global intelligence firm,
767:Pakistan's actions while bin Laden was alive
297:Note: This debate has been included in the
275:Note: This debate has been included in the
798:Regarding your comment above, take note of
583:An Unwinnable War: Australia in Afghanistan
971:The relevant material is already there in
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581:There are academic sources on the issue,
395:- Why is this article nominated for the
1475:The article is not in contravention of
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1052:I know, but that's the whole point of
474:If there are other problems, they are
761:And like others have already stated,
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
1343:— to do is, explain why deletion is
818:Note: User has modified the comment
775:The killing of Osama bin laden is a
682:- While this may be semi-related to
347:suitably covered in reliable sources
465:Criticism of the Israeli government
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816:) 13:47, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
453:very notable political figures
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913:Now all I could say is that
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585:Melbourne University Press.
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1187:That would be my preferred
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457:Not all POV is unacceptable
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1085:Criticism of Christianity
859:India and state terrorism
753:merely rename the article
1515:Please do not modify it.
1197:Death of Osama bin Laden
1068:et al, and nothing else.
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941:or a conspiracy theory.
684:Death of Osama bin Laden
625:Death of Osama bin Laden
539:Death of Osama bin Laden
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221:Death of Osama bin Laden
32:Please do not modify it.
403:The Wall Street Journal
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349:, The comments on the
73:AfDs for this article:
1462:"Alleged and accused
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886:few or no other edits
655:few or no other edits
469:Criticism of religion
461:Criticism of Facebook
1073:Criticism of Atheism
927:The President of USA
888:outside this topic.
657:outside this topic.
1341:deletion + merging
1081:Biblical criticism
844:♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛
607:♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛
421:discussed this on
415:the New York Times
353:still hold here.--
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1262:- Now that
1245:about a POV
1066:RegentsPark
977:regentspark
884:) has made
874:Westwoodzie
864:Westwoodzie
747:But you're
714:WP:POVTITLE
692:ARTEST4ECHO
653:) has made
643:Westwoodzie
633:Westwoodzie
449:allegations
393:Strong Keep
343:Strong Keep
183:free images
54:Mark Arsten
1487:. Thanks.
1477:WP:alleged
1457:WP:ALLEGED
1427:WP:ALLEGED
1284:Well, you
1166:NorsemanII
718:WP:POVFORK
712:This is a
430:. This is
424:60 Minutes
258:concerns.
1520:talk page
1431:Joshuaism
1290:this page
1179:Weak keep
1054:WP:SUBPOV
1003:WP:SUBPOV
777:different
305:• Gene93k
283:• Gene93k
37:talk page
1522:or in a
1453:Disagree
1149:ItsZippy
1138:Relisted
999:Disagree
935:WP:SYNTH
882:contribs
751:here to
700:contribs
651:contribs
546:lTopGunl
478:anyway.
439:multiple
407:BBC News
397:2nd time
325:Anir1uph
144:View log
39:or in a
1350:Mrt3366
1309:Mrt3366
1260:Comment
1226:Mrt3366
1207:Shirt58
1092:Mrt3366
1023:Mrt3366
982:comment
944:Mrt3366
800:WP:SOAP
788:Mrt3366
710:Comment
629:WP:Soap
512:WP:FORK
508:WP:SOAP
488:Mrt3366
455:, yes.
432:neither
427:earlier
333:contrib
260:Nwlaw63
256:WP:Soap
189:WP refs
177:scholar
117:protect
112:history
1345:needed
1201:Also:
1193:before
1189:second
1001:- See
969:Delete
779:topic.
621:Delete
535:Delete
445:also.
443:WP:GNG
413:, and
380:BabbaQ
161:Google
121:delete
1415:Merge
1397:Suraj
1323:WP:PM
1304:first
1252:Ghost
1112:Merge
939:WP:OR
824:Mar4d
806:Mar4d
623:with
518:Mar4d
483:below
248:Merge
204:JSTOR
165:books
149:Stats
138:views
130:watch
126:links
16:<
1495:3366
1435:talk
1385:Keep
1366:talk
1331:talk
1300:then
1272:talk
1249:Sudo
1241:Keep
1211:talk
1205:. --
1195:the
1170:talk
1161:Keep
1124:talk
1040:talk
915:this
901:talk
878:talk
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680:Keep
670:talk
647:talk
637:talk
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591:talk
571:talk
563:Keep
552:talk
525:talk
510:and
384:talk
376:Keep
329:talk
321:Keep
309:talk
287:talk
264:talk
197:FENS
171:news
134:logs
108:talk
104:edit
58:talk
50:keep
1490:Mrt
1429:.--
1417:to
1362:BDD
1327:BDD
1296:".
1286:can
1268:BDD
1199:.
1183:BDD
1120:BDD
1114:to
1087:).
1058:can
1036:BDD
937:or
931:not
923:CIA
749:not
688:see
467:or
463:or
411:CNN
365:ray
359:Big
211:TWL
146:•
142:– (
1470:."
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