867:- incident does not seem to be sufficiently notable to merit an article. I can't even see any justification to merge elsewhere - either to the article on the unit or middle-east peace keeping. That reporting of incidents needs reform or even a parliamentary enquiry to promote reform does not require an article. I have concerns about some of the annotations about parliamentary privelege etc.--
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public domain. The article in the
Australian newspaper is in the form of a feature by then defence journalist Don Greenlees, who wrote it only 3 years after the incident occurred, so Nick Dowling doesn't appear to have been thorough enough with his research before jumping to his conclusions that the article is 'non notable'
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This article contains no evidence that this alleged incident is notable. The only references to it are the testimony of an
Australian soldier to a parliamentary inquiry on military justice in the Australian Defence Force. The incident recieved a single paragraph in the inquiry's final report which is
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The
Australian Newspaper article referred to in section 3 of the hartshorn collection at the Australian War Memorial is a hard copy of the article electronically accessable via the Australian Newspapers online archive. That gives two options to access comprehensive information on the incident in the
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Re Nick
Dowling's comment about providing examples of published materials which discuss this incident in depth, paperwork is held in the collections section at the Australian War Memorial which discusses this incident in depth and the documents are open to the public. This refutes claims that it was
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According to both the article and the parliamentary report, the incident was supressed until 2005 when it first came to light as part of the parliamentary inquiry into the military justice system. Since then the only coverage it seems to have recieved is the single paragraph in the inquiry's report.
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and type staff sergeant david hartshorn into the search engine and select unlimited - you will be taken to the article details but to read the whole article will have to subscribe - I did and it is comprehensive - more evidence that the incident was published and not suppressed at stated by Nick
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The bottom line is that the parliamentary inquiry would not have included the incident if it did not happen, so irrespective of whether there is extensive published information, a major government inquiry DID publish it. The possible reason for not finding much on the internet is because it was
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A feature article written by a defence journalist about an incident in the
Australian Newspaper is significant. Because it was published in hard copy in 1997 that would explain why it is hard to find on the internet. I support the wikipedia article with some
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Well we have proved that wrong haven't we Nick and we also proved that you weren't thorough enough with your research or you would have found the earlier article yourself. So the wiki article needs some fine tuning but it is not necessarily non notable
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Keeping it suppressed obviously upset someone as per this entry in history trail of the article so it has struck a nerve 22:33, 2 June 2007 203.214.14.243 (Talk) (90 bytes) (←Replaced page with 'Hartshorn is not a desert rat, he is simply a rat.
772:) contributing to this discussion. Sorry guys, but thats not how things work here. Deletion or retention will be determined by a genuine consensus and sending your mates here or creating new accounts to comment is wasting everyone's time,
827:)) have also added material to this article and added references to it and to David Hartshorn to another article with little connection to this one and I'm suprised that they haven't turned up here as well yet. It's pretty blatant. --
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Don't delete it, it just needs refinement. I served in the MFO a couple of years after it happened and it has been used as an example of why incidents should be reported immediately. It is a deterrent to others. - dogfit
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I have also found another article in the
Weekend Australian Newspaper which was published in 1997. It is titled "Courage Under Fire" and go into depth about the incident - to see article details go to
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focused on how the Army treated the soldier who reported the incident, and not the incident per-se. Nothing comes up on Google searches of 'Australian MFO hit and run'
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Those archives contain public documents such as newspaper articles and papers which came into the archive from the public domain Nick so what is your argument?
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I don't see how a collection of personnal papers held in the AWM's massive archives (in which all soldiers are invited to donate their personal papers) meets
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and type David
Hartshorn into the collections search engine and you will be taken to an outline of the public documents held. - dogfit
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Thanks Nick. Its worth noting all of them here so at least we can keep an eye on them. As I said, its their time they're wasting. —
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which strongly suggests that when this incident was publicly reported it didn't recieve a significant level of attention.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Can you provide any examples of published materials which discuss this incident in depth? --
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Actually, it's the article which states that this was supressed. --
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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an abridged version (one or two sentences, with refs) back into
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Not really: one news story isn't anywhere near enough to meet
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As such, I don't think that it meets the requirements of
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reported in 1995, prior to internet explosion - dogfit
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653:Ohhh Nick you didn't do enough research did you?
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356:: This debate has been included in the
171:: This debate has been included in the
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196:per nom, apparently unnotable event. --
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46:Delete
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383:Merge
370:roar!
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