886:
shotgun method of nominating for deletion without even considering the consensus of existing discussions is quite unfortunate. I'm not quite sure you're engaged in bad faith actions, but I do think you would be well served to consider other methods. As far as notability goes, did you think to *look* for other independent references? Because if you didn't, that's a problem. If you didn't find them, I can only assume you missed the numerous
Origins awards and nominations, the numerous articles about GURPS and Steve Jackson Games in existing publications. For example
74:
534:| 17:35, 24 August 2007 (UTC) And, not having looked at all of the articles, yes I would agree that a few of them appear particularly spammy in nature, but I don't think it's a deliberate attempt on the part of the company, but probably some overzealous admirer of the game system (but I could be wrong). These could (and should) be rewritten/redirected.
252:. They have not received coverage from reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject; rather they cite links to advertorials, product launch announcements and an award given to them from a related trade association. These articles have been created to promote both the books, the games and the publishers in contravention of
955:. I wrote most of one of these myself, and as I have no interest in promoting the book or connection to Steve Jackson Games I don't see how it can be considered spam. I wrote the article simply because I happened to have the book in question and remembered a lot about the details in it. This AfD is clearly indiscriminate, IMO.
1044:
The notability of the Core GURPS set is difficult to dispute, given the number and type of awards it has won. While the article could be improved, simply being substandard is hardly worth a call for deletion, let alone a poorly considered and undocumented shotgun nomination like this. However, many
777:
These articles are not advertorials. As noted previously, many of these have been out of print for years and aren't likely to see a new edition. If some of the articles are poorly written, then they should be revised, not deleted. This is frankly one of the more bizarre nominations for deletion that
630:
No malicious intent asserted. Industry awards are a common in the gaming and publishing industry as a method of promotion, but some are more notable and independent than others. This group of articles should be reviewed together; for they are interlinked, follow the same pattern of advertorial, but
885:
This is far too complicated a situation to handle with AFD, and as such, this should be taken up with another method instead of just dumping things here for deletion. Try for example, contacting the
Wikiproject on Roleplaying games. Plus you already put one of these on AFD. I'm sorry, but your
525:
for Best Role-playing
Supplement (and I just added that fact to the article). I'm sure there are others than won the Origins Award and/or some other notable award. I will try to locate some more and add them to the articles. While I understand the author's intention for the mass nomination,
924:
This game system and individual supplements, GURPS Space amongst them have won awards. As always with poorly written articles the solution is to copyedit and improve not delete. Ok its easier to delete than to put the effort into trying to improve an article, but that shouldn't be the default
979:. All three books are listed for sale on Amazon.com, which as far as I know is still considered a reliable secondary source. Even if they were out of print and unavailable...so what? "Notable" isn't the same thing as "currently popular." They'd each still have a unique
425:
Thirdly, and more to the point: other people will be able to say more about the notability of these books, but a quick search shows that some of them received awards and recognitions (some of them before the diffusion of the Web). For instance,
247:
criteria. The articles do not contain real-world context or sourced analysis, nor do they offer detail on a work's development, impact or historical significance, but are solely a detailed summary of each book’s content, and as such fail
647:
Well, let's see. Do you claim that the
Origins Awards are neither independent nor notable in the gaming field? That's the one most commonly cited. Beyond that, looking at your nominations more closely, some already redirect to
1045:
of the worldbooks and supplements that currently have their own pages can and should be merged into the core article, most of them utterly fail notability on their own, but could be made part of a comprehensive core article.
1002:
also seems notable. As for individual source books, they are different enough that relisting them separately is probably the way to go. I don't think this is spam per se, but is more likely over-enthusiastic fans.
414:, you seem to believe that the publisher of these books looks for free advertising. In the field of role-playing games, GURPS and its supplements are amongst the most well-known: it would be a bit like saying that
734:
is not notable, then its article should be proposed for deletion. If it is notable, then games that have won it, and especially ones that have been inducted into its Hall of Fame, are notable by analogy with the
872:
If they're going to be nominated as a group, then I have to say keep all of them. Some of the books on this list may not be notable, but some of them certainly are. Relisting separately may be advisable.
610:, a curious argument for which I'd be interested in seeing your evidence. As it stands, it is difficult to take seriously a nomination that lacks evidence of taking seriously the notability of each case.
473:
suggest this group of articles were created mainly for promotional purposes. The number and lenght of the articles makes this a difficult call, so perhaps this is a topic worthy for discussion on
51:, without prejudice to renomination of the individual articles. The nominator is advised by this editor to try doing things one at a time, rather then in a all-at-once, all-or-nothing manner.
713:. Two of the books mentioned above have received Origins Awards, disproving your claim that "individually... evidence of notability is sadly lacking." Please relist them individually.
598:
For one thing, it would be very hard to claim that these are promotional articles, given that most of them are years out of print, and ascribing malicious intent to the same is at best a
1015:. GURPS is a pretty significant RPG. Some of those books, though...maybe not, but when you're throwing them all together like that...maybe a list would be the right way to go here? --
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411:
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GURPS itself will have many, many reliable secondary sources. Some of the books listed might not, but they should be listed separately and considered individually.
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of GURPS -- not even the edition in question. However, Mr. Collins has nominated this award-winning game for deletion based solely on this one supplement. --
567:
s or at the very least have received "honorable mentions" for the Outies, game awards given (I think) by Out of the Box Games (not affiliated with SJG).
854:". There was no material in the preview chapters regarding GURPS development, impact or historical significance or any other evidence of notability. --
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because there's a book of that title quantifying the setting in GURPS terms), I'd say signs point to "Yes, this was a blanket nomination".
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itself and the related books, there aren't any independent references to books, journals or magazines, so there is no apparent evidence of
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case for notability; calling them "related" trade associations works only if you assert that these associations are functionaries of
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perhaps it would be better if they were done individually and then each could be judge on their own notability (or lack thereof).
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I don't know what (if any) affiliation the authors of that book may or may not have with SJG, but clearly the publishers of the
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position. As to the contention that this is advertising, would such accusation would be made against films, cars, novels etc.
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So, my suggestion is to keep the two or three truly notable books, and merge whatever is worthy morging of the rest, in
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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751:. Similarly, the books are physical products with ISBN numbers. They are not fictional concepts like the
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has to to the GURPS 4e Basic Set is that one supplement for the line offered rules for converting to the
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which proves they weren't printed in some random teenager's garage for the five guys in his gaming club.
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1029:. For those of us who've heard of GURPS, but aren't RPG weenies & may want to know more....
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469:. Worse still, the links to the publisher's website and extensive cross referencing with related
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Knowledge (XXG) is not a book promotion site like Amazon or Ebay. Notability to come. --
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941:. This is a grab bag nomination, and will throw out the baby with the bathwater.
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book on Amazon.com, and it says on the cover it was "Created in partnership with
477:, but sadly I can't raise start such a discussion as that would be soliciting. --
105:
However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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398:: I thank Gavin for drawing attention to the poorness of some of these articles.
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which was an independent product long before a conversion to GURPS was done.
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individually and collectively, evidence of notability is sadly lacking. --
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as above. As for notability, several of these books have also received
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is an inappropriate standard; GURPS is a set of rules for a game, like
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violation. For another, many have received industry awards, making a
892:. Note how many awards are there? Heck, it's a Hall of Fame member.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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itself is highly notable, even though article needs some work.
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book satisfy the notability requirements (at least for the main
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Secondly: as already partially said in the discussion about
99:(agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments,
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itself? It seems not, but there is an AfD tag on its page.
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by Stuart Stuple, Bjoern-Erik
Hartsfvang, Adam Griffith
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among
Knowledge (XXG) contributors. Knowledge (XXG) has
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series thought it was notable enough for its own book.
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/GURPS Technomancer
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please so they can be judged on their individual merit
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per above arguments asserting notability. Weak due to
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guidlines, designed to promote books that do not meet
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Good point, I'd forgotten about that book. Thanks!
517:This is probably the best solution. For example,
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1144:). No further edits should be made to this page.
551:- These should be judged on individual merits.
904:- A very strange nomination, I feel, equating
430:won the "Best Roleplaying Supplement of 1988"
239:These articles are advertorials that fail the
119:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
8:
711:Academy of Adventure Gaming Arts and Design
1057:Nomination is inaccurate in most points.
1036:(BTW, I'm an occasional D&D player...)
403:First of all: does this proposal includes
93:regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
113:on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
467:Knowledge (XXG):Notability (fiction)
245:Knowledge (XXG):Notability (fiction)
660:references to independent sources (
497:, this is simply a redirection to
372:GURPS Traveller: Interstellar Wars
24:
493:While the proposal here includes
328:GURPS Callahan's Crosstime Saloon
656:, for instance), others already
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256:. The books in question are:
1:
1042:Close and relist individually
944:Luc "Somethingorother" French
935:Close and relist individually
692:Luc "Somethingorother" French
683:In Nomine (role-playing game)
499:In_Nomine_(role-playing_game)
418:spams Wikipidia to sell more
109:on the part of others and to
54:Luc "Somethingorother" French
910:GURPS War Against the Chtorr
360:GURPS War Against the Chtorr
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967:. I wrote the articles for
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917:21:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
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619:18:26, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
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519:GURPS Illuminati University
506:17:25, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
482:18:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
454:17:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
386:15:44, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
336:GURPS Illuminati University
58:09:39, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
1161:
889:for one review of many or
912:strikes me as bizarre. --
739:standards. In any case,
340:GURPS Planet of Adventure
316:GURPS Alternate Earths II
1137:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
151:; accounts blocked for
121:single-purpose accounts
91:policies and guidelines
1111:, which I just added.
549:Close/relist seprately
312:GURPS Alternate Earths
681:Given that he listed
416:Bloomsbury Publishing
846:I had a look at the
666:GURPS Reign of Steel
514:Keep some/Merge some
344:GURPS Reign of Steel
977:GURPS Shapeshifters
852:Steve Jackson Games
608:Steve Jackson Games
447:List of GURPS books
364:GURPS Mixed Doubles
304:GURPS Middle Ages I
280:GURPS Atomic Horror
272:GURPS Shapeshifters
103:by counting votes.
82:not a majority vote
1081:the only relation
1000:GURPS 4e Basic Set
461:Sadly for article
189:GURPS 4e Basic Set
64:GURPS 4e Basic Set
44:The result was a
802:GURPS for Dummies
596:Close and Relist:
268:GURPS Blood Types
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107:assume good faith
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993:Close and relist
894:FrozenPurpleCube
835:FrozenPurpleCube
800:rulebook)? :)
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561:Close and relist
348:GURPS Riverworld
332:GURPS Horseclans
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792:... For Dummies
745:Monopoly (game)
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687:GURPS In Nomine
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662:GURPS Mysteries
654:GURPS High-Tech
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495:GURPS In Nomine
436:list of winners
376:GURPS In Nomine
368:GURPS Traveller
352:GURPS Terradyne
320:GURPS Black Ops
288:GURPS Mysteries
276:GURPS High-Tech
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111:sign your posts
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528:--Craw-daddy
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420:Harry Potter
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356:GURPS Uplift
296:GURPS Supers
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153:sockpuppetry
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135:; suspected
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1027:Strong Keep
969:GURPS Cabal
875:Chunky Rice
778:I've seen.
604:prima facie
428:GURPS Space
324:GURPS Cabal
292:GURPS Space
1106:notaballot
1031:Trekphiler
914:Agamemnon2
753:Land of Oz
672:RGTraynor
614:RGTraynor
451:Goochelaar
250:WP:Fiction
87:discussion
1099:Weak keep
1083:In Nomine
1059:Edward321
1017:UsaSatsui
475:WP:WPSPAM
434:(see the
143:canvassed
137:canvassed
96:consensus
1071:Sci girl
939:Keep all
902:Keep all
870:Keep all
788:Comment:
749:football
233:View log
175:username
169:{{subst:
163:username
157:{{subst:
147:username
141:{{subst:
131:username
125:{{subst:
46:snowball
1005:Phirazo
848:Dummies
844:Comment
790:Does a
741:WP:FICT
730:If the
628:Comment
459:Comment
422:copies.
254:WP:SPAM
241:WP:SPAM
206:protect
201:history
139:users:
927:KTo288
761:Ehrbar
705:Hmmm,
703:Reply:
645:Reply:
600:WP:AGF
584:Relist
503:Naraht
445:or in
210:delete
996:GURPS
906:GURPS
883:Close
797:GURPS
737:WP:BK
728:Reply
650:GURPS
588:Corpx
565:Outie
471:GURPS
463:GURPS
443:GURPS
405:GURPS
396:Merge
260:GURPS
227:views
219:watch
215:links
117:Note:
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1079:Keep
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981:ISBN
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780:Rray
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553:Artw
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449:. --
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223:logs
197:talk
193:edit
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