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or a well-meaning but self-censoring journalist. As any such stereotypes would be, this is incorrect and reflects a certain unfamiliarity with the subject at hand. For all their worth, it is also important to keep in mind that foreign outlets may not have the same insights or connections as native
Turkish ones. Outlets such as Birgün and Cumhuriyet, which have maintained their editorial independence at great expense, have also called this event a massacre (
526:
77:
857:). I really wanted to get this one on the record, but this does not mean that the term "massacre" should be given in Wikivoice, English-language sources clearly don't commonly call this event as such. But it is worth mentioning the use of this term universally in Turkey, by pro- and anti-Erdoğan outlets alike.
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Finally, I find it hard to understand why the nom has argued that there is "nothing to merge" here and why others have jumped on that bandwagon. Clearly, this article has a lot of content that can be merged into the operation article, which does not cover domestic or international reactions nearly as
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In the ANI thread as well as above I have seen an inclination to treat all sources coming out of Turkey uniformly as products of
Turkish propaganda. That's a dangerously simple and to be frank, inappropriately stereotyping narrative that reduces any Turkish voice to either a pro-Erdoğan propagandist
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The killing of the hostages and the operation itself seem indistinguishable when it comes to the focus of the sources. If we are splitting hairs, yes, these are two separate entities, but that's not the way RS in general have covered them. So yes, this is a POVFORK and should not exist as an
374:. The title "Gara massacre" is not backed by RS, and is highly POV, and perhaps should not be kept even as a redirect. There is nothing to merge because nothing is in this fork that isn't already stated with better sources and more neutrally at
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applies here. Given the absence of sourcing in mainstream, third-party media sources I agree with the nom that this is ultimately a POVFORK of
Operation Claw-Eagle 2 to promote the Turkish line (and loaded term) about it being a "massacre".
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notable enough and has lots of coverage. Anadolu and Sabah were only used for statements by foreign representatives in the reactions section, as well as
Turkish claim on PKK casualties of the rescue operations. --► Sincerely:
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Ha ha.. One more hostility to
Erdogan ... killing civilians is a massacre. Turkey is a democratic country. Turkey a republic. Also, the title has nothing to do with Erdogan, nor with the media. The title is remarkable,
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664:, presumably created to avoid page bans after a number of editors were banned from that article for trying to editorialise the article in the same way as this one has been. Probably could have been deleted as
820:– Aside from the fluff sections (background, reactions) the sourcing for the key claims of massacre are either Turkish outlets, linked to the Turkish state or attributing statements to Turkish officials -
579:, that should be addressed in the article talk page instead of here, in my opinion. Plus, there's enough amount of reliable and unbiased sources with high amount of coverage if you do a
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President Recep Tayyip
Erdogan blamed the United States and opposition Kurdish politicians in an effort to deflect responsibility for a failed rescue operation.
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on the
Turkish Knowledge village pump, which I have reverted. I will add my own thoughts once I have had a chance to examine the article. --
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
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well. Yes, there may be some need for editorial review and cleanup, but outright deletion is clearly unwarranted.
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This page already exist and therefor this AFD we wanted merge this but it was ignored by disruptive users.
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For example, here is a less biased content, also includes speeches about the event by politicians:
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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which has a more NPOV and presents the same information that is up to Wiki standards.
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Here is again a coverage about the parliamentary question that given to the minister:
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589:(in Turkish) And here is a coverage by Reuters about the aftermath of Gara events:
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this POV fork per nom and others. In future, the reliable sources noticeboard is
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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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506:. Resource-owned media organizations are independent, not state monopolies. -
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592:. again, here is another coverage about aftermath and speech of Erdogan:
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I believe that qualifies an independent article about the events.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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102:(agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments,
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as per the fact that the incident got coverage even from
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see this interview of the father of one of the victims
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479:Note: This discussion has been included in the
458:Note: This discussion has been included in the
437:Note: This discussion has been included in the
416:Note: This discussion has been included in the
395:Note: This discussion has been included in the
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439:list of Politics-related deletion discussions
418:list of Military-related deletion discussions
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122:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
92:among Knowledge contributors. Knowledge has
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223:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
481:list of Turkey-related deletion discussions
397:list of Events-related deletion discussions
845:. Let's break down the points one by one:
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96:regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
460:list of Iraq-related deletion discussions
116:on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.
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366:Operation Claw-Eagle 2#Further reading
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362:Operation Claw-Eagle 2#References
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208:Introduction to deletion process
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18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
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112:on the part of others and to
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198:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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639:I would like to note the
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907:Please do not modify it.
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849:independent article.
786:i explained above. -
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818:Delete and redirect
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660:Obvious POVFORK of
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346:WP:POVFORK
90:discussion
911:talk page
885:per GGT.
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99:consensus
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913:or in a
723:thataway
686:Valeince
603:Ahmetlii
485:Levivich
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178:username
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39:or in a
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303:scholar
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244:history
194:New to
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58:Spartaz
890:~Styyx
828:Jr8825
739:apolis
569:Bianet
546:apolis
287:Google
253:delete
883:Merge
843:Merge
788:Pivox
630:Virum
530:Note:
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490:hound
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330:JSTOR
291:books
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262:watch
258:links
120:Note:
16:<
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834:Talk
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792:talk
784:Keep
775:talk
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730:Mini
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649:talk
625:Sola
618:Keep
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575:and
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561:Keep
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364:and
323:FENS
297:news
266:logs
240:talk
236:edit
868:GGT
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Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
