647:-- Yes this is a splinter group. I have no idea how large, but suspect that it is small. I note that he celebrates in a chapel (not a church) and in three chapels elsewhere. I approach this on the basis that he is a leader of a small denomination. We have articles on the principle of sedevacantalism, but not on this as a Catholic denomination. It looks as if he has episcopal oversight of several congregations. If so, I think deletion inappropriate, but only by a narrow margin.
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amount of
Americans know him because of the 2018 consecration of Bp. Selway. You state "There are a whole number of Traditionalist and independent Catholic organizations, with many leaders saying that they are bishops." He's an acknowledged sede bishop in general. Not unlike many others. He's cooperated with Bp. Sanborn many times. I think this all stems from the fact that the IMBC really is just not that heard of in the US. Another important note: Mexican
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but that does not change the fact we rubber stamp keep articles with atrocious sourcing. We need to expand the BLP prod procedures to other types of articles, because right now people will double down on an article that has sat for 14 years with no sources at all and remove a prop from that article without adding any sources. Knowledge needs to solve the unsource problem now.
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also have their
Knowledge pages. About the sources, I think the problem has been fixed. I think it's sufficient, and if it's somewhat lacking, it can be supplied in the future, just like in a lot of articles. I'm fine with having a template attached, but it shouldn't be deleted because it will make
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Stop with your pejorative refering to modern people with the name of an ancient prophet. I can not hear you through your use of the wrong terminology any more than an
African-American could hear you through the use of the term Negro. That said, yet I know he is part of a splinter break away group,
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Donald
Sanborn is well known in the Sedevacantist and traditional Catholic community because of the fact that the traditional Catholic community in the United States is somewhat noisy. IMBC operates in Western Europe, Hungary, and Argentina. Also, it's not as if Bp. Stuyver is that unknown. A fair
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who in turn form a subgroup of
Catholicism! Stuyver and other Sedevacantist bishops lead denominations that are at most a few thousand. Perhaps an example that you might be familiar with is if that an article about a Mormon leader comes up on Knowledge, but not in the well known
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I am not sure if this article meets GNG, because I am not sure of the reliability of the sources. However the sourcing is 100 times better than what we have on the vast majority of articles on
Catholic bishops, most of which are source to one
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The issue here is that technically
Stuyver is not a Roman Catholic bishop as commonly understood. Sedevacantists (to whom he belongs) are a minority within a larger minority of Catholic who reject Vatican II, who themselves are a subgroup of
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argument. There are a whole number of
Traditionalist and independent Catholic organizations, with many leaders saying that they are bishops. I think a stronger argument would be how much coverage Geert Stuyver has received.
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Sorry, must have made it more clear. I meant a fair amount of
American sedevacantists/traditionalists. The accusation here is that he is just a shadow of the sedevacantist community(ies), which is false, because he isn't.
52:. Rough consensus is to delete: Two of the "keep" opinions are expressed as weak, and none point to any reliable sources covering this person in some detail, which is what we need for any article and certainly for a
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673:? How does he look "as if he has episcopal oversight of several congregations"? Which congregations are you talking about? He heads the IMBC. Where did you get that he heads others? Can you clarify more?
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not have their articles deleted, if their number of chapels are fewer compared to all IMBC chapels? I have tried to add more sources, including the one you mentioned, hope it suffices.
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that says it's a prejogative. My apology if the term caused you distress. Anyway I don't see what any of this has to do with the deletion discussion, so good day.
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bishops does not apply. Several of the sources are to the sect's website, and the "Centro Studi La Runa" reference only trivially mentions him.
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is not the leader of a particularly large congregation but he is well known in the Sedevacantist and traditional Catholic community.
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this article could certainly be improved with more independent sources, but I do think that it does just pass
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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A fair amount of Americans know him because of the 2018 consecration of Bp. Selway
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Here's a link listing Mass centers of IMBC so you don't need to suspect.
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as a member of an obscure sect, the presumption of notability for
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This bishop of an extremely small sect doesn't have the necessary
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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is absurd, almost no Americans care about any consecrations.
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Please I didn't mean any harm, and there is nothing in the
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Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
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is definitely not a small sect. Also, if it is, why do
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does not appear to be met. I suppose a redirect to
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