Knowledge (XXG)

:Articles for deletion/Douglas Berger - Knowledge (XXG)

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for deletion is not relevant here, and the nominator here has voted for deletion of the other article. This could be marginally construed as a conflict of interest. The nominator needs more familiarity with "how academia works" particularly as pertains to the field of psychology. Secondary sources would certainly add to the artcle, but are not absolutely necessary for its existence. Further it may be decades after the death of the subject that secondary sources become available in large numbers. Some may exist now and are just not in the list. I certainly wouldn't go out on a limb and claim they don't exist. Further, the non-existence of wiki articles about the referenced journals is also hardly relevant. There are uncountable subjects in very specialized fields that there are no wiki articles on. Authors in specialized fields probably spend a lot more time working in professional, peer reviewed journals than they do writing about journals for wikipedia. As to
385:. Uh, it's kinda not, if you're arguing that those publications alone are what make the guy noteworthy. Take for example two fiction writers: one's published about two dozen short stories in Playboy, the New Yorker, GQ, Zoetrope, and similar publications &c. The other has published twice as many stories in local literary zines and college digests with a circulation under 1000. Which one is notable? The mere fact of publication--in any form--does not confer notability. There are clinical psychologists who have written entire books all by themselves, on notable publishers, who are not themselves notable. This guy doesn't even qualify as a wikipedia footnote. 294:, you can see how even the most minor and non-notable of academics often has a ridiculous number of publications to their credit. It is not (necessarily) proof that that person is regarded in any way as important in their field. Just a few samples of non-notable people with CVs matching or exceeding Berger's who work just across the street from me: 417:
as the related article on one of Berger's theories, an editor who has ONLY edited the Berger and Berger-theory article, so I don't think it's totally unreasonable to wonder if this isn't a vanity create by Berger himself. Just because someone says their contributions to the field are "major" doesn't
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Again, the notability of the references is purely your own opinion. Fiction is not at all the same as non-fiction. Again, just because some other person doesn't have an article here doesn't mean they or this guy shouldn't, and the relative crappiness or podunkness of the institutions they might work
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alone make this person notable. The "prestige" or "notability" of the journals used as references is irrelevant and purely a matter of opinion. Lists of other persons that don't have articles written about them are not good arguments for deletion. The fact that a related article has been nominated
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Call it whatever you want; I've made my recommendation on a course of action to be taken and I've given my reasons for it. You may "not saying anyone else's article (or lack thereof) should be used as proof that this guy shouldn't get one," but you keep bringing up other hypothetical subjects for
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my exact words were "could be marginally construed as." You are not just a voter, you are the nominator here are you not? Also it is not required for me or anyone else to explain to your satisfaction why this guy is more notable than some person who is not and consequently has no article written
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I'm not saying anyone else's article (or lack thereof) should be used as proof that this guy shouldn't get one, I'm saying if the threshold for professional notability is this low, virtually every aged college professor, from Yale on down to humble CUNY schools, ought to have a wiki article too,
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This is a CV designed to create notability and possibly work. It was created by one account, that is traced to Japan, and this guy's practice is in Japan. It is written in similar format and tone to his personal/work page listed as a link. Off topic question, don't biographies usually have a
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is 1) 2 pages long, 2) 11 years old, 3) something on which he is only a co-author. The citations look more impressive than they are; they're pretty much all for trade journals like "European Eating Disorders Review". It's basically just a CV, not an article.
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articles in your arguments. It sounds like that's what you're saying in your nomination and several comments including the one above. Afd's don't exist to "set the bar" or create precident. Each one has to be considered individually.
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is, in my opinion, a notable achievement in itself. Being published in such selective publications is a significant achievement in itself; doing it multiple times is more than enough to justify the existence of an article, IMO.
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which is clearly an absurd statement. Also, Afd is a debate, not a vote or a straw poll, and I'm not aware of any requirement that says I must refrain from participating because the AfD was my idea in the first place.
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It would seem to me that you couldn't get this many articles published if you weren't regarded as an important figure by independent academics in this field, or if you did, all those articles would make you important.
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references, you'll see they're both published in the magazine's letters column. They are not articles. In fact, 1/4 of the citations given are just letters to the respective journals. The citation from
340:, none of the other sources are "notable", despite assertions here to the contrary, i.e. there isn't a wiki article for a single one of them. By my reckoning, this guy fulfills NONE of the criteria for 413:(which I think you need to read through more thoroughly if you think voting on two related AfD constitutes conflict of interest), it's worthwhile to point out that this article was created by the same 134:. Subject has published a small handful of articles in some journals of low to middling prestige, but the same could be said of most tenured college professors. Douglas has received zero 143: 123: 196:
Such coverage is rare for a researcher is an unglamourous field like clinical psychiatry. However, repeated publication in well-known publications such as
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and as far as "how academia works", you can find at least fifty people as notable as this guy teaching at even the crappiest, most podunk college campus.
526: 163:) down to a number of well-respected Japanese-language journals. I don't see what more is necessary to establish a scientist's notability. 247: 96: 91: 17: 286:, but you are perhaps unfamiliar with how academia works? Publish or perish. Having obscure trade journals publish your essays is 100: 176: 135: 83: 430:
you haven't actually explained what makes this guy any more significant or well known than any other academic in his field.
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for pretty much anyone with that sort of job. It is NOT unusual. Just perusing the CVs of random professors at the
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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or at best gut it until it is little more than a stub. This is little more than a résumé. --
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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academics in the same field." It seems to me that this passes the notability test.
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The "prestige" or "notability" of the journals used as references is irrelevant
183:. He might have published in notable publications, but that doesn't mean 159:. Page lists 33 publications in journals from the extremely well known ( 450:
about them. The significance of the body of work is self evident.
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for is also irrelevant. And since you want to further comment on
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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is being debated for deletion a little further down the page.
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of the following conditions, as substantiated through
39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 554:list of Academics and educators-related deletions 582:). No further edits should be made to this page. 362:Major contributions to the field of psychiatry 336:, and co-writing a two-page article ONCE for 8: 332:aside from getting two letters printed in 262:notable...2: The person is regarded as an 552:: This debate has been included in the 250:: "If an academic/professor meets any 248:Knowledge (XXG):Notability (academics) 217:. If you look closely at both of the 18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 7: 24: 334:American Journal of Psychiatry 219:American Journal of Psychiatry 202:American Journal of Psychiatry 1: 409:and since you're bringing up 136:coverage in secondary sources 181:Notability is not inherited 599: 575:Please do not modify it. 564:09:01, 9 June 2007 (UTC) 544:22:44, 8 June 2007 (UTC) 500:15:28, 4 June 2007 (UTC) 480:10:27, 4 June 2007 (UTC) 465:04:47, 4 June 2007 (UTC) 455:01:16, 4 June 2007 (UTC) 435:16:45, 3 June 2007 (UTC) 423:16:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC) 402:16:25, 3 June 2007 (UTC) 390:16:24, 3 June 2007 (UTC) 374:00:47, 3 June 2007 (UTC) 349:22:41, 2 June 2007 (UTC) 325:22:37, 2 June 2007 (UTC) 275:22:07, 2 June 2007 (UTC) 232:22:11, 2 June 2007 (UTC) 210:20:32, 2 June 2007 (UTC) 192:17:42, 2 June 2007 (UTC) 168:17:09, 2 June 2007 (UTC) 151:04:44, 2 June 2007 (UTC) 66:17:57, 9 June 2007 (UTC) 52:– no secondary sources. 32:Please do not modify it. 282:. Not to sound like a 415:single purpose account 179:; there is none. 566: 557: 531: 517:comment added by 198:Science (journal) 177:secondary sources 590: 577: 558: 548: 530: 511: 418:mean anything. 360:The articles in 264:important figure 256:reliable sources 121: 103: 63: 58: 34: 598: 597: 593: 592: 591: 589: 588: 587: 586: 580:deletion review 573: 561:John Vandenberg 519:168.105.113.184 512: 175:. Coverage in 144:related article 94: 78: 75: 61: 54: 44:The result was 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 596: 594: 585: 584: 568: 567: 546: 533: 532: 503: 502: 489: 488: 487: 486: 485: 484: 483: 482: 469: 468: 467: 439: 438: 437: 355: 354: 353: 352: 351: 240: 239: 238: 237: 236: 235: 234: 128: 127: 80:Douglas Berger 74: 72:Douglas Berger 69: 42: 41: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 595: 583: 581: 576: 570: 569: 565: 562: 555: 551: 547: 545: 542: 539:per Mordicai 538: 535: 534: 528: 524: 520: 516: 508: 505: 504: 501: 498: 494: 491: 490: 481: 478: 473: 470: 466: 463: 458: 457: 456: 453: 448: 443: 440: 436: 433: 429: 426: 425: 424: 421: 416: 412: 408: 405: 404: 403: 400: 396: 393: 392: 391: 388: 384: 380: 377: 376: 375: 372: 368: 363: 359: 356: 350: 347: 343: 339: 335: 331: 328: 327: 326: 323: 320: 318: 316: 314: 312: 310: 308: 306: 304: 302: 300: 298: 296: 293: 292:local college 289: 285: 281: 278: 277: 276: 273: 269: 265: 261: 257: 253: 249: 244: 241: 233: 230: 225: 220: 216: 213: 212: 211: 208: 203: 199: 195: 194: 193: 190: 186: 182: 178: 174: 171: 170: 169: 166: 162: 158: 155: 154: 153: 152: 149: 145: 141: 137: 133: 132:WP:NOTABILITY 125: 119: 115: 111: 107: 102: 98: 93: 89: 85: 81: 77: 76: 73: 70: 68: 67: 64: 59: 57: 51: 47: 40: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 574: 571: 549: 541:Adam Cuerden 536: 513:— Preceding 506: 492: 471: 441: 427: 406: 394: 382: 378: 357: 329: 287: 279: 267: 263: 259: 251: 242: 214: 187:is notable. 184: 172: 160: 156: 139: 129: 55: 45: 43: 31: 28: 330:Furthermore 268:independent 258:, they are 477:Aspenocean 452:Aspenocean 371:Aspenocean 260:definitely 497:mordicai. 288:de rigeur 527:contribs 515:unsigned 200:and the 124:View log 56:Krakatoa 48:. Fails 472:Comment 462:Ford MF 442:Comment 432:Ford MF 420:Ford MF 407:Comment 399:Ford MF 395:Comment 387:Ford MF 379:Comment 367:WP:PROF 346:Ford MF 342:WP:PROF 338:Science 322:Ford MF 280:Comment 272:Nyttend 229:Ford MF 224:Science 215:Comment 189:Ford MF 173:Comment 161:Science 148:Ford MF 97:protect 92:history 537:Delete 507:Delete 493:Delete 447:WP:COI 411:WP:COI 207:JulesH 165:JulesH 130:Fails 101:delete 50:WP:BIO 46:Delete 140:Note: 118:views 110:watch 106:links 62:Katie 16:< 550:Note 523:talk 510:DOB? 428:Also 358:Keep 284:dick 243:Keep 157:Keep 114:logs 88:talk 84:edit 559:-- 556:. 381:. 344:. 266:by 252:one 138:. 122:– ( 529:) 525:• 185:he 142:a 116:| 112:| 108:| 104:| 99:| 95:| 90:| 86:| 521:( 126:) 120:) 82:(

Index

Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
deletion review
WP:BIO
Krakatoa
Katie
17:57, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Douglas Berger
Douglas Berger
edit
talk
history
protect
delete
links
watch
logs
views
View log
WP:NOTABILITY
coverage in secondary sources
related article
Ford MF
04:44, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
JulesH
17:09, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
secondary sources
Notability is not inherited
Ford MF
17:42, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Science (journal)

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