388:- UK service stations require acts of parliament, often with their own postcode and are significant waypoints on the road network, most serve significantly more people daily than half the railway stations which have articles here. Comparisons to US rest areas are invalid as they are completely different. Historically service station deletions close as keep, see
1195:. When we deal with certain article subject areas, we presume notability. This is because editors have repeatedly determined that those subjects usually pass WP:GNG or meet another one of Knowledge's core functions, so it's been a fair assumption that the rest of the articles in that area will as well. That's why we have pages like
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on the basis of an outcome of a mass AfD (which was always going to end up as a trainwreck) then the fallback should consider reliable sources if there are any. Shopping centres covering a larger area and a greater number of facilities aren't always notable and I don't see why smaller services areas should have a higher status.
549:. This issue has been discussed extensively in the past and has been decided to keep all British motorway service areas. They are established by statute and are major complexes. They are not just "truck stops". It is not productive to delete a single example, when there are articles for all of them. See
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ROADOUTCOMES is an essay, not policy. We should not automatically assume that because something is "generally notable" in an essay topic that it is inherently notable in
Knowledge policy. Who also made the decision that service areas in Britain (but no other country) were generally notable? If it was
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and so that analogy fails as an argument for deletion. But shopping is not the main function of a service area, which is more related to transportation. Mangoe has written numerous articles about lighthouses, which are another type of transport nexus. They may or may not be populated but, either
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These service areas are not much different than small shopping centres, which we already have a whole deletion sorting category for. Most shopping centres in the UK have their own postcodes, that doesn't make them notable however. Furthermore, majority of these services articles contain little more
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That needs to be revisited and probably removed - that sentence was added in 2009 after two AfDs, both of which would likely be resolved differently today, especially since a number of UK motorway service areas have been deleted recently. I started a discussion on this on the talk page a few weeks
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We can't draw conclusions from those AFDs, which were flawed to begin with. The nominators wanted to delete all of the articles at once, even though some of the service stations are clearly notable, so it's not really surprising that they were both closed with a consensus to keep all the articles.
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No evidence of notability, and I'm not sure that service stations are notable enough to have articles. If it is important it could be mentioned in the article about the motorways it is next to. If this article is deleted then some of the articles for the other service stations in the UK should be
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It's difficult to rely on flawed AfDs from almost a decade ago, as notability guidelines have changed. Also, the discussion wasn't extensive - it hasn't really been addressed from ten years ago, when notability guidelines were a bit different. The ROADOUTCOMES blurb was added by someone who
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to document these general findings to forestall endless AfD discussions with the same results. This has been a good rule of thumb, but it comes with a corollary: when a specific article is shown to fail the GNG test, then that article loses the notability presumption and gets
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It's been mentioned above that
Knowledge has a gazetteer function. Since a motorway service area isn't a populated place, and traditional gazetteers lack extensive coverage of MSAs, this article can't avail itself of any exception to GNG for this Knowledge
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and the NJ Turnpike. The latter match the description of the
British facilities, but while one can perhaps find some routine news briefs about them, they are, when all is said and done, just rest areas, and the description of these says the same.
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Additionally, it may be time to revisit ROADOUTCOMES' statement that UK MSAs are generally notable based on recent AfDs and the demonstration above that it's based on presumptions flowing from just two flawed discussions long ago.
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per Jeni, Necrothesp and Andrew
Davidson. I feel I have no choice but to accept that this satisfies GEOLAND as this populated place was established by statute. Further, deletion would violate ATD, PRESERVE and R because we have
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fall under the category of "populated places" is entirely baseless, if not ridiculous, as anyone remotely familiar with the oil marketing & distribution sector would tell us. I hope we do not have to argue too much about
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only grants presumed notability to a select class of features (cultural/national heritage/protected sites with verifiable information beyond simple statistics), and if the article doesn't meet that standard, it has to meet
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contributed to one of those AfDs, and it's completely unclear to me why a UK service station would be presumptively notable, but a
Croatia service station wouldn't be - especially where the UK service station fails
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A shopping center is not a populated place, and that's in essence what these service areas are. This "every dot is sacred" approach does not have consensus; people are largely willing to have an article on every
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about services clearly isn't good law given recent contrary AfDs and speedy deletions. It's meant to be descriptive, it doesn't carry the weight of policy, and it's inaccurate to boot. The claims about
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which has a whole section on being the "feeding trough" for 1960s rock bands, easily verifying it's not just some random building in the middle of nowhere). In the case of
Doncaster North, with a
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I think removing / revising ROADOUTCOMES makes sense; as I said above, the reason we generally have articles on
British service areas is because they tend to meet GNG anyway. For example, at
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article which lists them. I think that's only because they have names. Honestly I'm having a hard time seeing the notability of rest areas but I'm sure I'm about to be instructed otherwise.
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I don't mind a redirect or merge, but I'm still very much surprised about the GEOLAND argument as nobody actually lives here or has lived here, the commonly accepted definition of a
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place and therefore meets GEOLAND to be particularly twisted. And regardless of ROADOUTCOMES, in the end an article needs to meet GNG and there is consensus that this one doesn't.
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is obviously the applicable guideline inasmuch as this is a complex of buildings, but that section requires significant coverage in line with the GNG, and none is on offer here.
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That has nothing to do with whether this article in particular is notable. There's no policy or guideline that states notability is presumed for
British service stations.
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It's a service station + a few other shops and smaller than most shopping centres. Notability is NOT inherited just because it is a geographic feature and it exists.
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establishes our common practise that populated places which are geographically distinct merit articles. One reason for this is
Knowledge has a role as a
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1398:, it is a disingenuous one: Parliaments pass laws that set the framework of requirements for a service station to open and operate. The permissions for
493:- Would prefer if these were merged into one huge article but as one doesnt exist I guess the only option is deletion, Anyway fials NOTDIR & GNG. –
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as either an "artificial geographical feature" or an "artificial feature related to infrastructure." It's a similar story here. The difference is
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works is because traditionally they have all had enough coverage in reliable sources to write a reasonable article about them (eg: see the
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British motorway service stations are notable. Good reasons have been given on those AfDs and those reasons have not changed. --
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Rest stops in the US range from mere parking areas (though generally with some sort of rest rooms) to the complexes found along
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I don't usually edit in this topic area or at AfD, but do you have sources which relate to this particular service station?
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The word "populated" means that there are people there. A motorway service is required to be open 24*7 and so there are
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and we'll disagree, but service stations are not presumptively notable under any current geographic standards.
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While the AfDs may form some sort of precedent, regardless of how flawed they are, some of the redlinks at
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not one of
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back and if this is deleted I'll probably just be bold and remove or modify the outcome text.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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than travel guide content, including websites to hotels and other businesses in the area.
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must fail as well; if it applied to services where the population is 100% transient then
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major (or minor) commercial complex would be presumptively notable, and this is not so.
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I would support redirecting or merging the article, although there isn't much to merge.
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that's for cities and villages, this is an "artificial geographic feature" so must pass
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refers to structures such as dams and bridges which are typically not so populated.
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as none of the arguments I'm seeing in favor of keeping are better than "is too!"
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people there. There is a hotel in the complex and so people sleep there too.
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as an example of when a services article can be taken to Good Article status.
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That has nothing to do with whether this particular article passes the GNG.
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avoid weak or illogical arguments, such as "We always keep these articles"
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The reason Jeni's argument about "all UK services stations are notable"
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assumes notability as long as the place can be verified, as Knowledge
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Norton Canes services (2nd nomination)
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Norton Canes services (2nd nomination)
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as do all the other sources I can find in my own searching. --
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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in the rest of the world and are generally kept as notable.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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there - otherwise, all hotels would be inherently notable.
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was deleted through both AfD (in 2006) and CSD (in 2008).
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were deleted through CSD for not establishing notability.
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Donington Park services
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Cardiff West services
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –
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List of motorway service areas in the United Kingdom
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List of motorway service areas in the United Kingdom
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List of motorway service areas in the United Kingdom
746:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
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list of Transportation-related deletion discussions
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list of Shopping malls-related deletion discussions
308:In the one US case where there are links at all to
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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570:Note: This discussion has been included in the
551:Category:Motorway service areas (United Kingdom)
469:Note: This discussion has been included in the
282:Note: This discussion has been included in the
262:Note: This discussion has been included in the
284:list of Geography-related deletion discussions
615:That's simply not true. The argument is that
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115:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
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1046:. I'm fine if you think this meets
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100:Introduction to deletion process
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
1083:this is the same story as with
1021:Lighthouses do not fall under
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1415:. Even so, the text of that
998:We have many articles about
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90:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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1433:09:59, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
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1086:AfD::Michaelwood_services
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714:(with free complementary
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607:16:16, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
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563:13:37, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
530:04:22, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
507:21:01, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
483:18:53, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
462:18:35, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
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428:14:42, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
403:13:34, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
381:23:02, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
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334:Going to have to go with
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296:14:03, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
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1442:Please do not modify it.
1007:and so my !vote stands.
124:Doncaster North services
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1279:rest areas
1246:Ritchie333
1235:Imzadi1979
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310:rest areas
62:Randykitty
1446:talk page
1425:The Gnome
1370:Mackensen
1269:: In the
1203:function.
1009:Andrew D.
967:Andrew D.
959:gazetteer
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365:WP:NOTDIR
58:populated
37:talk page
1448:or in a
1411:, it is
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795:Relisted
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246:PRODed.
168:View log
109:glossary
39:or in a
1328:Jc86035
1300:Comment
1191:—fails
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843:Comment
824:Passes
778:Jc86035
766:Comment
700:The Sun
684:usually
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420:Jc86035
305:Comment
248:Jc86035
215:WP refs
203:scholar
141:protect
136:history
86:New to
1407:As to
1383:Delete
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986:Mangoe
938:Ajf773
890:always
680:Delete
663:Ajf773
636:WP:GNG
537:. See
516:WP:GNG
512:Delete
491:Delete
475:Ajf773
454:Ajf773
439:Mangoe
373:Ajf773
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357:Delete
340:Mangoe
336:delete
318:Mangoe
288:Hhkohh
187:Google
145:delete
1362:every
912:lives
705:other
553:. --
497:Davey
230:JSTOR
191:books
175:Stats
162:views
154:watch
150:links
16:<
1429:talk
1392:that
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1265:per
1263:Keep
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535:Keep
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502:2010
479:talk
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399:Jeni
392:and
386:Keep
377:talk
367:and
359:per
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268:L3X1
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197:news
158:logs
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1088:--
805:Joe
617:all
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