1141:(the other two don't mention the road, not sure if this one does but the Catalan wiki translates to that the works are available there) and in two Dutch wiki pages, and continues to appear on maps for some reason. Also considering this was cancelled in 1977 there may be more information in historical newspapers, and nobody has undertaken that search yet.
897:. Roads are notable even if they were never built and gotten past the planning stage since there was at least a proposal for a road to exist, and usually there are interesting reasons why a road never got built. Unless this is a hoax, which does not appear to be the case, then this should have an article.
1174:
That's also not true. If you search for the right road, there's plenty on the cancellation for a stub, as per my previous comment. The problem is the information's potentially duplicative, as the E-routes combine a number of local routes, and this E-route would have been potentially concurrent with a
808:
This is confusing because in the discussion, it looks like some editors think this article should be deleted but are not coming out saying the word, "Delete". I understand that AFD is NOTAVOTE but the closer should not have to interpret your intent by reading between the lines of comments. Right now,
758:
Well, as you imply, there sure are reasons it never got off the ground. I removed my delete because the ghost bridges and a tiny 404 road section on them actually received sufficient coverage. At nlwiki this is a second article next to the 404 article but we should combine. I don't have the bandwidth
735:
appears to be the minutes of some city/regional council meeting where members debated the merits of rebuilding and expanding the existing road N348 (which OSM confirms does exist in this area) for E404. However, if this is the only other source that can be found, it implies to me that this proposal
1380:
The most recent commenters (who've looked at the recently mentioned sources) are advocating
Keeping this article or at least leaving this page title as a Redirect. So, my question is if there is more support for a Redirect than Keeping this article and, if so, what would the target article be? I'd
542:
As far as I understand it, the road was planned but never built. And how rigidly should we adhere to a guideline that says "typically" when we haven't been able to identify any good sources? I understand that SNGs are intended to supplement GNG, but an NEXIST argument for a road that never existed
1316:
Clearly notable after sources have been found on it. There's an editorial question as to whether this should be a stand-alone page or a redirect to a new page on a local
Belgian road, considering most sources talk about the road and not the European designation for said road, but considering that
868:
roads are also notable. Given that this was never built, I think coverage would be much more limited than in the cases GEOROAD was intended to refer to, so I don’t think this is notable under that guideline. We also have very little to go on to make, say, an NEXIST argument. I don‘t see it.
971:
Note also different languages have different sources and the Dutch language version even includes a bit about ghost bridges which were constructed and then deconstructed (and the ghost bridges have their own article too!) If kept, this article should be revised to look like the Dutch one.
1073:
At the very least there should be a redirect to list of unbuilt
European motorways - if this would be the only item in the list I think it's fine keeping it as a stand-alone page. It's very minor information but I don't want to lose it, especially considering it could be expanded.
1034:
It wasn't built, it was a cancelled freeway dating back from 1977 according to the Dutch article. Stub ramps were built over the railroad tracks, that was the extent of it. Cancelled freeways can indeed be notable as well, so whether it was built shouldn't determine the outcome.
938:
Genuinely not sure. Looking at other pages, we could create a start-class article for this, but only using sources from the EU, which may not be secondary, and even then it's not much of an article. I think deleting this would make the encyclopedia worse, but it also fails
635:
Why should I care how many WIkipedias it's in - the
English Knowledge is the English Knowledge. Anyway, there appears to be usable sourcing in the Italian and Russian versions of the E75 article for improvement of ours. But that's irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
1063:
there is some agreement that unbuilt roads need to meet GNG, or at least are not automatically notable the way a comparable road that was completed is. This is really a question of how we read GEOROAD, so that discussion may be helpful for this AfD.
1285:
following are just a few sources on the subject. The difficulty is that the national newspaper archive of
Belgium blocks access to the more recent articles. That said, there is much more, also in other newspaper on the destruction of the road.
1201:
An additional problem may be we might be looking for the wrong thing. The E404 was going to be attached as a
European number to a motorway which was unbuilt as part of either the A17, A301, or A11 per several different sources:
1117:
Google Maps doesn't show E numbers at all in
Belgium, and that's the only mapping service I checked. I'm generally unsure - that was just a guess. Note how I haven't !voted any which way, because I really have no clue.
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1298:
52:. After extensive discussion there is a consensus that an article about this road should exist in some form. Discussions about what form that should be are a matter for the article talk page not AfD.
1165:
What I meant was that we haven‘t actually identified verifiable information beyond „It exists.“ in the discussion. Re-reading my comment, it’s clear that this was not expressed well. My bad!
1381:
especially like to hear the opinions of editors who in the early stage of this discussion were advocating for Delete as this discussion has clearly evolved since it was started 3 weeks ago.
1025:
FWIW, it doesn‘t appear on Google Maps, nor Apple Maps, nor satellite imagery. What piece of highway are you referring to? The A11 from Bruges to
Westkapelle looks relatively normal to me.
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highway is automatically notable – significant coverage be damned – merely because a number has been assigned were it to be built. International e-roads might be notable, but
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That is clearly not the intent of the sentence. It would be like saying that states, provinces, cities, and counties are inherently notable... but countries are not.
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This article is the only place I could find to suggest this road was ever planned. Seems to be a joke on HTML error 404. Sourceless since creation in 2012.
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I feel like I‘m losing my mind a little with that map: I can‘t find E404 to save my life. E403 is there, but E404 between the two named cities just isn‘t.
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exists in 37 language
Wikipedias. Are we the English Knowledge so arrogant that we think we should delete an article that 37 other Wikipedias have?
543:
seems to be a stretch, and I don't think we should keep an article with no appropriate reliable sourcing, even if it technically falls into an SNG.
773:
Hey Liz, I donno if the below refers to my message above but I had already corrected my !vote. Sorry for putting you on the wrong foot, if I did.
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I think if we have no clue (because there seems to be no verifiable info on this whatsoever), that supports a deletion more than anything else.
998:
The more recent delete comments are based on the idea that this road was never built. I'm.. not actually sure that that's true? It appears on
672:
that are notable, not every single road that belongs to the E-road network. At least that's how I'd interpret that sentence. What do you think
599:. Such roads are "typically notable" but I'm not seeing GNG, only mentions and primary sources. It is worth noting that almost the entirety of
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That's absolutely wrong that there's no verifiable information on this. There's available sources in the
Catalan wiki including potentially
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was short lived and fizzled, as the portion of it I read (via Google Translate of course) sounded like nobody was enthusiastic about it.
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I mean, the map linked in the article does show a road in that location, but it doesn't even label it. Even if it's not a hoax,
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595:- The article would have to be completely rewritten, because this article about a fake road is, as far as I can tell, about a
471:(Sadly 1st April's long gone - I guess I have to be serious and say Delete for being a non notable road, Fails SIGCOV and GNG)
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As I learned below (with some help), this is not a hoax. But GNG still indicates that this is an unsuitable article subject.
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Not a hoax. It was supposed to be a road that has been planned and was designated an E number, yet it hasn't been built.
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we just have a nomination statement askinf for Deletion, two editors advocating Keep and a misguided Redirect request.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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to redo the article or even to argue a lot about this. Sorry. The topic is notable.
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for the A11 extension, and then the A17/A301 through some Dutch wiki-sleuthing and
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Just for the historic record, it was a plan and the number had been designated.
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You are probably looking at the main map instead of at the top-left inset.
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I started a discussion about this over at the talk page of WP:GEOROAD. I
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page doesn't exist yet, this is currently the "correct" place for it.
709:
If this truly is a hoax, then of course it should be deleted. If not,
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Some bridges for the road had even been built and were lately removed.
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919:
Please don't make things up. There is no precedent whatsoever that a
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as the road really cannot be found. Perfectly sensible redirect :)
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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be the otherwise inexplicable disconnected segment of A11 from
614:
Surely you cannot be serious about the last part. For example,
881:
GEOROAD does not apply to roads that were not actually built.
1370:
to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
800:
to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
568:
to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
315:. I changed my opinion to keep. See reasoning far below.
927:. There must be better sources to establish notability.
660:
correctly, this kind of road is not inherently notable.
603:
is stubs - do we need to have some wider review, here?
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in some form since there are clearly sources on it. --
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I feel vindicated for never bolding a !vote until now
525:
does apply. However, its existence is in question. --
277:
Delete: What seals the deal for me is this sentence:
1385:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
812:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
574:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
521:If you can prove that it is an actual E-road, then
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1435:). No further edits should be made to this page.
372:It's labeled on said map (you need to zoom in).
249:Note: This discussion has been included in the
843:as types of routes that are typically notable.
281:. This is clearly some kind of joke or hoax.
224:
8:
1259:Keep per foreign language coverage found by
108:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
1249:, lacks sufficient coverage to be notable.
1000:File:International E Road Network green.png
1102:where it is listed as "road never built".
1100:International_E-road_network#B_Class_roads
248:
839:is a thing, and it explicitly mentions
344:, etc. Not a suitable article subject.
893:International E-roads are notable per
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279:] it is not signposted or on any maps.
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601:Category:International E-road network
7:
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947:doesn't provide clear guidance.
864:: GEOROAD doesn‘t indicate that
841:the International E-road network
253:lists for the following topics:
93:Introduction to deletion process
367:That's why I propose to delete.
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
1:
1257:) 00:15, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
1209:List of motorways in Belgium
417:Aaaah, there it is. Thanks.
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83:(AfD)? Read these primers!
62:11:21, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
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610:21:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
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1425:Please do not modify it.
1175:single stretch of road.
668:(my emphasis). It's the
32:Please do not modify it.
1406:per everything above.
1098:Or it can redirect to
656:: If I'm interpreting
165:edits since nomination
81:Articles for deletion
1012:Westkapelle, Belgium
499:per sources below. –
438:Trainsandotherthings
662:International road
117:European route E404
69:European route E404
1376:Relisting comment:
925:this is not a road
806:Relisting comment:
616:European route E75
436:, road not found.
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