436:(1939 built), and is currently scheduled to open in 2021, after many delays If this is the same thing, then it would obviously be appropriate to merge the AFD subject article (created in 2015), into that article, perhaps into a section titled "Hollywood Motion Picture and Television Museum" to cover the phase of the planning period when it had that proposed name. Without any AFD, a merger proposal can be put into place on the two articles, calling for informed editors to implement an intelligent merger. IMO, whether or not this is the same project, this AFD should be closed "Keep" or "Speedy Keep". --
912:
celebrity-studded openings and related shotgun-wielding crazy people. The project seems to me obviously to have been a real thing, not merely a figment of imagination of some fraudulent profits-obsessed postcard publisher. I do wonder if the 2021 museum has inherited or otherwise acquired that collection. So let me reiterate: "Keep", though now with different reasoning. Note the deletion nomination still has not been modified to make any valid deletion argument at all (the fact that the project never opened is simply irrelevant to
Knowledge (XXG) notability, for example). --
364:
myself curious what happened, why it was delayed, whether the project still has huge backers, whether it has $ 30 or $ 200 million socked away, etc., or whatever other story can be told. But for AFD purposes, it doesn't matter that the project has not happened (yet) or that it has completely failed and dissolved and returned all the donations (if that is what has happened). The proposal was significant and is supported in sources and "notability is not temporary".
767:, was hired to study the site and eventually design the building. Two private nonprofit corporations were established in June 1960: the Hollywood Museum Corporation, for the museum construction, and the autonomous Hollywood Museum Associates (HMA), of which Lesser was president. The former would build the facility with county-guaranteed bonds, and the latter would lease it from the county for thirty years, after which the building would revert to the county.
805:
The attorney for the evicted man immediately sued the county to prevent the sale of bonds to finance construction. The supervisors appointed a review board, headed by Lytton (who some claimed was disgruntled because he hadn't been appointed to the commission), that reported the HMA was operating at a
709:
Lack of funding, over-ambitious plans (a museum, galleries, film archive, library and academic complex, theater, sound stage, television studio, demonstration center, concessions, and administrative offices were part of the project at one time or another), and politics all contributed to its failure.
554:
The Debbie
Reynolds part is irrelevant and I probably should not have included it at all but because it was showing up in my searches I wanted to make it clear that it is not related to this project. I believe it is appropriate to mention earlier incarnations of the proposal if that can be proven but
819:
over how much the building would cost and where the money would come from. The HMA then suspended financial operations and stopped soliciting monetary donations. Two months later the county had completely withdrawn its support. The following month the proposed site was paved over to create a parking
363:
article alone is a very substantial source establishing a huge, significant project, and there will exist other sources. It's not especially relevant that this is or is not associated with some Debbie
Reynolds project (but maybe that project deserves an article too, and should be linked.) And I am
534:
Yes, i read, and the article would require revision, if there was an editor informed and interested in improving it. Actually I ignored the postcard source at first because it was indicated to be a postcard (and I think it is undated), and I went to the first substantial source, the first LA Times
860:
The museum's acquisitions remained in storage facilities supervised by the county until
September 1967. In 1968 the City of Los Angeles, through its Board of Recreation and Parks Commission, inherited the Hollywood Museum memorabilia when it paid storage fees owed by the county to the warehouses
539:
article, and the AFD subject could be pointed to an anchor set there. It is a true actual non-fake fact that it is hard to open a new major museum, and it takes a long time, and it is appropriate to credit/mention earlier incarnations of a proposal. An AFD is not necessary and is not likely to
515:
or rather "Academy of Motion
Picture Arts and Sciences" plans for a museum at Beverly & Fairfax and the current article says the proposed site is to be across from the Hollywood Bowl on Highland Ave, which is now a parking lot and makes me believe this was a different project. Why should the
492:
is the article I was considering to be the main source of the article, and which I referred to mistakenly as the "New York Times" article. It is very substantial, explains the project is at
Beverly & Fairfax, and by that fact I am pretty sure it is referring to the project located there and
455:
but don't mention anywhere this museum name and I have no idea what New York Times article you are referring to. This museum does not currently exist, never existed, and as far as I can tell is not planning to open and I have edited to reflect the article to reflect that because it is otherwise
450:
I'm all ears for keeping or merging this article if you can show me sources that this building or proposed building is notable but I can't find any sources to suggest so and you haven't shown me any either. I don't know if this is the same project, it sounds like something completely different
496:
JayJay, I have the impression you're a good editor, and would not be intending to pull a fast one, but it is absolutely not okay for a deletion nominator to delete substantial content and sources from an article, just before or during an AFD process. I suggest/request you revert your edit(s)
911:
So this was in fact the Debbie
Reynolds-associated project, and the CNN source asserting a 1972 start is inaccurate, and the collection itself seems important, and there is a lot of reliable detail about the project available, and there was in fact a lot of news coverage about it and
377:, could you just withdraw this AFD so it can be closed without requiring further participation? It seems to be a misunderstanding that Knowledge (XXG) can only cover "winners" not "losers", when in the real world I think the "losers" can be far more interesting and important. --
802:
necessitated the eviction of its occupant, who consequently held sheriff's deputies at bay with a shotgun for several weeks until his arrest in April 1964. The dramatic standoff received much attention from the media, and taxpayers began to question the expenditure of public
555:
there are no sources to back that up and you have not provided any either. Based on what I have found from the Online
Archive of California suggests it is not. That is why I didn't propose a merger because I do not think the projects are related. My nomination still stands.
355:
The article should be updated, of course, to explain the project as a proposal which was planned to open in 2017, rather than speaking in
Knowledge (XXG)'s voice that the museum "will" open in 2017, etc. Put a negative tag on the article, fine. But the
207:
540:
reach informed editors who visit
Knowledge (XXG) only occasionally; it woulda been more appropriate to make a merger proposal at the AMMP Talk page and allow a merger to be implemented when informed and interested persons show up there. --
886:
had drawn up city-approved contracts to loan the "research" portion of the collection to four area institutions for a period of 25 years, renewable for an additional 15 years. By May 1982 the research material was distributed among the
755:, whose district included Hollywood, the board of supervisors issued a mandate to build and operate a museum in Hollywood that would foster and perpetuate interest in the motion picture, television, radio, and recording industries. The
881:
to relocate the material to Los Angeles-area institutions. Stevenson appointed Olender public service legal coordinator for the Hollywood Museum project in 1979. Within two years Olender and Los Angeles Deputy City Attorney
432:(which was first covered in 2008 in Knowledge (XXG) as " Museum of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences", when it was just a plan? This project is located at corner of Wilshire Blvd and Fairfax Ave in the
242:
it says "The Hollywood Motion Picture and Television Museum, commonly known as the Hollywood Museum, was planned from 1960 to 1965 but was never built." Sources listed in the article mention another museum, the
141:
136:
145:
128:
763:
acting as chairman. The supervisors offered county-owned land opposite the main entrance to the Hollywood Bowl, supplemented by the acquisition of contiguous parcels. William Pereira, architect of the
275:
201:
800:, a founding member of the museum, publicly demanded an investigation of HMA finances. Despite his claims, the board of supervisors approved the museum lease. A county-condemned building on the site
764:
772:
In December 1960 the board of supervisors suggested that the film industry put up half the cost of the project. This caused the HMA concern and was an early warning sign of the troubles to come.
710:
This was not the first or the last attempt to build a museum in Hollywood honoring filmmaking. Previous plans—none directly linked to the Hollywood Motion Picture and Television Museum—included
535:
article. If the actual true facts are that there was a Debbie Reynolds-associated proposal long preceding the project now nearing opening, then that probably should be indicated in the
250:
I don't think this is related to Debbie Reynolds project either as some of those showed up in my search, I believe this was a separate project in the 1960's. Her organization began in
489:
813:
When Lytton saw the architect's plans in March 1965, he claimed the museum would cost $ 21 million to build. This estimated price tag far exceeded the original $ 6.5 million proposal
368:
299:
168:
323:
132:
907:, and others was to have the legal committee draw up a performance contract so that the Academy could repossess Hollywood Museum gifts if they were in storage or not in use.
702:, and the website further provides this historical account (with all bolding and wikilinks added by me, including to highlight other incarnations that might be mentioned):
719:
726:, launched a campaign the following year for a Motion Picture Exposition and Hall of Fame, but the plans were dropped due to lack of industry support. Two years later
836:) By the time Lesser resigned as president of the HMA in August 1965, plans for the museum had been abandoned. Numerous attempts to resuscitate the project failed. (
371:(which garnered unanimous "Keep" votes) for perspective, about another failed museum project, about which it is fine and good that Knowledge (XXG) covers the topic.
411:). The proposal/expectation this would happen at that prominent location speaks to the significance of this project. It sounds like a great idea, to me, too. --
124:
76:
516:
sources be kept if they do not refer to the article in question and there are no other sources to prove otherwise. It is misleading to keep them in the article.
460:
there is no significant coverage of the proposed building to make this notable as far as I can tell. The sole source of the article is actually copied from this
100:
433:
222:
189:
115:
899:, and the Academy. Ironically, one of the proposals made by Sol Lesser at a 1960 Hollywood Museum Library Committee organizational meeting attended by
941:
693:
568:
549:
529:
506:
477:
445:
420:
386:
339:
315:
291:
267:
70:
603:, or on Vine St. (2 blocks away from N. Cahuenga, parallel) a couple blocks north of Santa Monica Boulevard. It cites two early 1960's articles in
896:
731:
920:) 10:43, 23 January 2021 (UTC) P.S. Note also that proper treatment of the topic needs to properly characterize and link to existing articles
183:
707:
The Hollywood Motion Picture and Television Museum (commonly known as the Hollywood Museum) was planned in the early 1960s but was never built.
350:, or actually this should probably be closed "Speedy Keep", as the deletion nomination provides no argument, no rationale at all, for deletion.
238:
I can't find any evidence that this museum ever opened or is still planning to open. Seems like a non-notable failed museum. According to the
776:
and gifts continued to accumulate. Groundbreaking ceremonies were held at the proposed site on October 20, 1963. Debs and Lesser, along with
588:
179:
645:'s) for 2013, 2014, 2015, reporting very small then zero assets, and inactive status, but naming 9 or 8 members of its board of directors
584:
229:
95:
88:
17:
892:
536:
512:
452:
429:
244:
677:
866:
839:
511:
Did you read the articles? Nowhere in them do they mention "Hollywood Motion Picture and Television Museum" they mention the
408:
195:
109:
105:
641:) had gone inactive. Using my Guidestar account (free, you could open one too) i find financial reports (United States IRS
482:
Yeah right. The postcard is the only source remaining in the article, after you just deleted references to two substantial
743:
739:
561:
522:
470:
461:
332:
308:
284:
260:
63:
957:
40:
391:
By the way, a museum project at Fairfax Ave. & Wilshire Boulevard, would be a huge deal, putting it in a row with
929:
742:, near downtown Los Angeles, as possible locations. The possibility of such a museum in Exposition Park prompted the
681:
847:
711:
404:
925:
400:
605:
497:
stripping down the article, so it is easier for others to evaluate the article as it was before you arrived. --
827:
851:
52:. There seems to be enough coverage about this museum and it's collection so I am withdrawing my nomination.
888:
823:
611:
600:
251:
953:
396:
36:
746:
to push for a Hollywood locale. This was the impetus that resulted in the Hollywood Museum commission.
734:, moved to establish a committee to explore the creation of a museum in Hollywood. Headed by producer
618:"Hollywood Motion Picture and Television Museum Project", Progressive Architecture, 42: 2, 60, 2/1961.
862:
457:
904:
874:
796:, and others, addressed an audience of several thousand people. Early the following year, financier
684:, which is housed at Debbie Reynolds Studios (DR Studios) in North Hollywood and at his ranch")). --
883:
634:
215:
843:
831:
937:
917:
689:
545:
502:
483:
441:
416:
382:
84:
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
952:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
54:
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
921:
900:
699:
653:
566:
527:
475:
337:
313:
289:
265:
68:
878:
727:
661:
648:
596:
793:
735:
638:
629:, the main public source about U.S. charitable nonprofits' finances and more, reports
811:
By late 1964, after having invested more than $ 1,000,000, the county froze funding.
785:
723:
715:
621:"Pereira Houses the Arts, Old and New", Progressive Architecture, 43: 2, 50, 02/1962.
591:-focused editors have found to be a great, reliable source about architects, reports
239:
676:(much younger than all the others, but who is (according to Knowledge (XXG)) CEO of
933:
913:
789:
685:
657:
541:
498:
437:
412:
378:
162:
698:
And, a summary of the "Hollywood Museum" project's extensive collection is given
870:
797:
781:
752:
673:
556:
517:
465:
374:
327:
303:
279:
255:
254:
according to CNN. Although I see some Gbook hits, I can't preview most of them.
58:
630:
592:
777:
760:
669:
665:
757:
Los Angeles County Hollywood Motion Picture and Television Museum Commission
626:
583:
Okay, about "Hollywood Motion Picture and Television Museum" exactly, the
873:
began a campaign around 1976 to find a proper home for the acquisitions.
838:
Two unrelated museums later opened in Hollywood: the presently shuttered
642:
718:'s efforts in 1954 to build a film museum to bring in revenue for the
751:
In June 1959, under the initiative of Los Angeles County Supervisor
633:
that the "Hollywood Motion Picture and Television Museum", based in
595:
that the project was designed, in fact designed by noted architect
392:
948:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
877:, Lasky's attorney, tried to convince Los Angeles Councilwoman
765:
Motion Picture & Television Fund Country House and Hospital
599:. Maps there suggest it was to be located on N. Cahuenga near
865:, near downtown Los Angeles, and placed in the custody of the
738:, the committee considered the Hollywood Bowl area as well as
680:
and involved in other Debbie Reynolds projects including "the
861:
storing the material. The materials were transferred to the
451:
especially given that sources in the article refer to the
369:
Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Sparta Teapot Museum
276:
list of Museums and libraries-related deletion discussions
615:
which I have not accessed, but may well have good info:
774:
Over the next few years the HMA raised nearly $ 500,000
158:
154:
150:
214:
815:and surpassed the amount of money raised thus far.
228:
720:Motion Picture & Television Fund Country House
300:list of Entertainment-related deletion discussions
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
960:). No further edits should be made to this page.
322:Note: This discussion has been included in the
298:Note: This discussion has been included in the
274:Note: This discussion has been included in the
324:list of California-related deletion discussions
125:Hollywood Motion Picture and Television Museum
77:Hollywood Motion Picture and Television Museum
8:
434:May Company Building (Wilshire, Los Angeles)
116:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
867:Hollywood Center for the Audio-Visual Arts
321:
297:
273:
846:'s costume collection, in 1984, and the
897:University of California at Los Angeles
840:Hollywood Museum on Hollywood Boulevard
732:Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
589:National Register of Historic Places
834:, which had been moved to the site.
585:Pacific Coast Architecture Database
759:was formed, with retired producer
678:Debbie Reynolds Hotel & Casino
24:
893:University of Southern California
822:In the early 1980s the unrelated
637:(close to, but not including the
537:Academy Museum of Motion Pictures
513:Academy Museum of Motion Pictures
490:This one of the LA Times articles
453:Academy Museum of Motion Pictures
430:Academy Museum of Motion Pictures
245:Academy Museum of Motion Pictures
101:Introduction to deletion process
930:Hollywood Motion Picture Museum
682:Hollywood Motion Picture Museum
848:Hollywood Entertainment Museum
722:. His successor as president,
409:List of museums in Los Angeles
1:
744:Hollywood Chamber of Commerce
942:11:20, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
694:10:24, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
569:08:29, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
550:06:33, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
530:06:14, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
507:05:42, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
478:04:45, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
446:04:09, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
421:03:54, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
387:03:50, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
340:02:31, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
316:02:31, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
292:02:31, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
268:02:31, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
240:Online Archive of California
71:17:11, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
91:(AfD)? Read these primers!
977:
712:Motion Picture Relief Fund
932:(currently a redlink). --
926:Hollywood Heritage Museum
730:, acting chairman of the
950:Please do not modify it.
828:Hollywood Heritage, Inc.
606:Progressive Architecture
428:Is this what became the
32:Please do not modify it.
889:American Film Institute
824:Hollywood Studio Museum
612:Architecture (magazine)
909:
857:
852:Mann's Chinese Theater
808:
769:
748:
601:Santa Monica Boulevard
397:La Brea tarpits museum
858:
809:
770:
749:
704:
407:(and perhaps more of
89:Articles for deletion
903:, Academy librarian
863:Lincoln Heights jail
587:, which I and other
458:Sparta Teapot Museum
635:Burbank, California
609:, a predecessor to
456:misleading. Unlike
55:(non-admin closure)
832:Lasky-DeMille barn
484:Los Angeles Times
426:Comment/question:
361:Los Angeles Times
342:
318:
294:
106:Guide to deletion
96:How to contribute
57:
968:
922:Hollywood Museum
901:Margaret Herrick
830:, opened in the
817:Arguments ensued
654:Stephanie Powers
493:opening in 2021.
233:
232:
218:
166:
148:
86:
53:
34:
976:
975:
971:
970:
969:
967:
966:
965:
964:
958:deletion review
879:Peggy Stevenson
784:, Jack Warner,
740:Exposition Park
728:John Anson Ford
662:Rosemarie Stack
649:Debbie Reynolds
597:William Pereira
175:
139:
123:
120:
83:
80:
48:The result was
41:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
974:
972:
963:
962:
905:Betty Franklin
875:Terrys Olender
826:, operated by
794:Gloria Swanson
639:Hollywood Bowl
623:
622:
619:
582:
581:
580:
579:
578:
577:
576:
575:
574:
573:
572:
571:
494:
487:
423:
389:
372:
365:
358:New York Times
352:
351:
344:
343:
319:
295:
247:not this one.
236:
235:
172:
119:
118:
113:
103:
98:
81:
79:
74:
46:
45:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
973:
961:
959:
955:
951:
946:
945:
944:
943:
939:
935:
931:
928:and to topic
927:
923:
919:
915:
908:
906:
902:
898:
894:
890:
885:
884:Bruce Sottile
880:
876:
872:
868:
864:
856:
855:
853:
849:
845:
842:, showcasing
841:
835:
833:
829:
825:
818:
814:
807:
804:
799:
795:
791:
787:
786:Mary Pickford
783:
779:
775:
768:
766:
762:
758:
754:
747:
745:
741:
737:
733:
729:
725:
724:E. L. DePatie
721:
717:
716:Jean Hersholt
713:
708:
703:
701:
696:
695:
691:
687:
683:
679:
675:
671:
667:
663:
659:
655:
651:
650:
644:
640:
636:
632:
628:
620:
617:
616:
614:
613:
608:
607:
602:
598:
594:
590:
586:
570:
567:
565:
564:
560:
559:
553:
552:
551:
547:
543:
538:
533:
532:
531:
528:
526:
525:
521:
520:
514:
510:
509:
508:
504:
500:
495:
491:
488:
485:
481:
480:
479:
476:
474:
473:
469:
468:
463:
459:
454:
449:
448:
447:
443:
439:
435:
431:
427:
424:
422:
418:
414:
410:
406:
402:
398:
394:
390:
388:
384:
380:
376:
373:
370:
366:
362:
359:
354:
353:
349:
346:
345:
341:
338:
336:
335:
331:
330:
325:
320:
317:
314:
312:
311:
307:
306:
301:
296:
293:
290:
288:
287:
283:
282:
277:
272:
271:
270:
269:
266:
264:
263:
259:
258:
253:
248:
246:
241:
231:
227:
224:
221:
217:
213:
209:
206:
203:
200:
197:
194:
191:
188:
185:
181:
178:
177:Find sources:
173:
170:
164:
160:
156:
152:
147:
143:
138:
134:
130:
126:
122:
121:
117:
114:
111:
107:
104:
102:
99:
97:
94:
93:
92:
90:
85:
78:
75:
73:
72:
69:
67:
66:
62:
61:
56:
51:
44:
42:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
949:
947:
910:
859:
837:
821:
816:
812:
810:
801:
790:Gregory Peck
773:
771:
756:
750:
706:
705:
697:
658:Barbara Rush
652:(as well as
646:
624:
610:
604:
562:
557:
523:
518:
486:articles!!!!
471:
466:
425:
360:
357:
347:
333:
328:
309:
304:
285:
280:
261:
256:
249:
237:
225:
219:
211:
204:
198:
192:
186:
176:
82:
64:
59:
49:
47:
31:
28:
871:Betty Lasky
844:John LeBold
798:Bart Lytton
782:Walt Disney
753:Ernest Debs
736:Jack Warner
674:Todd Fisher
405:cars museum
401:Folk Museum
202:free images
50:speedy keep
778:Gene Autry
761:Sol Lesser
714:president
670:Ret Turner
666:Bob Mackie
647:including
954:talk page
854:in 1996.)
627:Guidestar
37:talk page
956:or in a
869:. Donor
806:deficit.
643:Form 990
462:postcard
403:and the
399:and the
395:and the
169:View log
110:glossary
39:or in a
934:Doncram
924:and to
914:Doncram
850:, near
686:Doncram
542:Doncram
499:Doncram
438:Doncram
413:Doncram
379:Doncram
208:WP refs
196:scholar
142:protect
137:history
87:New to
895:, the
891:, the
820:lot. (
803:funds.
672:, and
375:JayJay
180:Google
146:delete
393:LACMA
223:JSTOR
184:books
163:views
155:watch
151:links
16:<
938:talk
918:talk
700:here
690:talk
631:here
625:And
593:here
546:talk
503:talk
442:talk
417:talk
383:talk
367:See
348:Keep
252:1972
216:FENS
190:news
159:logs
133:talk
129:edit
563:Jay
558:Jay
524:Jay
519:Jay
472:Jay
467:Jay
334:Jay
329:Jay
310:Jay
305:Jay
286:Jay
281:Jay
262:Jay
257:Jay
230:TWL
167:– (
65:Jay
60:Jay
940:)
792:,
788:,
780:,
692:)
668:,
664:,
660:,
656:,
548:)
505:)
464:.
444:)
419:)
385:)
326:.
302:.
278:.
210:)
161:|
157:|
153:|
149:|
144:|
140:|
135:|
131:|
936:(
916:(
688:(
544:(
501:(
440:(
415:(
381:(
234:)
226:·
220:·
212:·
205:·
199:·
193:·
187:·
182:(
174:(
171:)
165:)
127:(
112:)
108:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.