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doesn't meet the notability bar (his other medals are so low that many other countries wouldn't even count them as medals, just commendations if that). Neither does the fact he was of
Armenian descent and therefore features heavily(ish) in a book about Armenian-American war heroes just because he happened to be a member of a minority who won a couple of decorations. Neither does meeting some famous people or being a bodyguard (one of many) to a famous person. Nobody disputes this man's courage, but he needs to have more notability for an article. Many thousands of people have won two third-level bravery decorations. The fact is that other than this he didn't do anything else particularly notable in his life. --
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book (for instance, that Mr Lafian single handedly destroyed six tanks and massive mistakes about the deployments of the 82nd
Airborne Division) also illustrate the problems with it - no professional publisher would produce anything with such blatantly wrong material. The fact that these obvious errors have reappeared in the article despite the problems with the material which were pointed out in its earlier incarnation make me wonder whether this article has actually been developed in good faith. The two other sources offered here are also weak, and not reliable sources. As such, notability isn't established.
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Personally, I don't see this as a defensible position, when the individual has other factors that make them notable. Those in the military wikiproject sometimes have an unfortunate tendency to totally discount non-military factors that help establish notability. Lafian, for instance, was the co-chairman of the
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with references to one book which may be a RS which references one of
Demirjian's books. As such, this book appears to have been either self-published or published through a tiny vanity press, and it isn't a useful source for establishing notability. The outlandish claims which are referenced to the
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However our source says one "battle" which could be over many days/weeks which is plausible for someone with an anti-tank weapon. Can't comment on the 82nd deployments. The publisher evidence is pretty damning on reliability - take away that one source and there is nothing left. Changing my vote to
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In other fields, like academia, various forms of peer recognition help establish notability. Being made a Dean -- being appointed to a named "chair", is a form of peer recognition that helps establish notability. Academics who are honored by having their peers write a book, or hold a conference,
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span 9 pages -- a chapter. Having a book written about one would strongly contribute to one's notability. Surely a 9 page chapter comes pretty close to establishing his notability all by itself? And combined with being awarded significant foreign medals on top of significant
American medals --
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Co-chairing one committee of one union does not make one notable. As to medals, our usual standard is one first-level or two second-level decorations. I will personally usually also vote to keep for three third-level or one second- and two third-level decorations. But two third-level alone? No,
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I've participated in other discussions where individuals from the military wikiproject have seemed to want to take the position that if an individual's medals didn't include their country's highest order medal, or if they hadn't been promoted to
General or Admiral, they couldn't be notable.
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unreliable sourcing . I'm convinced by Geo Swan's argument this case doesn't fit the rules perfectly when looked at as a whole it makes sense this individual is outside the norm and notable. The lack of diverse sourcing is a problem. Has anyone looked for older sources from the 1940s, or
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devoted to their work have that considered as a strong factor helping to establish their notability. Other fields have other ways peers recognize exceptional individuals, and those forms of peer recognition should contribute to the individual's notability.
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Any infantryman who knocked out six tanks in a single battle would have either received the medal of honour or be the subject of serious literature complaining about the injustice of him having missed out on the medal. Such an achievement was very rare.
437:-- No, Lafian did not win a Victoria Cross or Medal of Honor, medals that would have made him pass a special notability guideline, all on their own. But very few of the subjects of our biographical articles meet our notability criteria for a
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The article lists half a dozen famous individuals he met -- which doesn't establish notability as notability is not inherited. But he was chosen as one of
Eisenhower's bodyguards. I suggest this was a significant kind of peer recognition.
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the factors that contribute to their notabiity. Winning lesser medals contributes towards establishing his notability. The references to him in the book
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A search of books in World Cat for Ararat
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if you plan to work in deletions. It makes the process much, much, much, much, much simpler. —
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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I was still working on the page but thanks. Individual does not meet the notability of
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destroyed 5 tanks in a single day for which he won the Medal of Honor.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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act. Most individual's notability is determined by considering
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Log/2013 October 16
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This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (
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509:UAW Joint Skilled Trades Apprenticeship Committee
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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476:Triumph and glory: Armenian World War II heroes
451:Triumph and glory: Armenian World War II heroes
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