745:); she didn't just win second place in the Podunksville pie-eating contest and then fall off the radar. Snopes' "Unproven" rating is regarding the veracity of the allegations, not the judge's mention of her name in the trial (which 5 different reporters from 3 different news outlets have named bylines for in the refs). As for "The concerns discussed on the article Talk page", I agree those are valid ones and worthy of discussion and reaching consensus about there. If the article can be rewritten to address those concerns, lets do that as opposed to deletion. I also agree with the trial part being a
1477:. Teh award she recieved is *not* an Emmy, its some regional version of the Emmy. The RS here are largely from non acceptable sources, some alumni material, or they are news sources actually discussing some incident that she was involved with. The sources don't really feature her. No independent sources here establishing her notability.
1336:(note California has multiple regional Emmys, so these aren't even state wide awards but at the city/metropolitan area level). All the other sources are primary as well, as they are content generated by Byon while on the job. There is no independent coverage of her work outside of the awards, and that coverage is all primary.
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award over time. With 20 regions and 60 award categories, there are 1800 regional Emmy Award recipients every year. It's a relatively common award. Lastly, we have zero independent significant secondary and tertiary sources for this person. As such, there is not a strong argument to keep this article.
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states this is an argument to avoid at AFD. One could easily find many other AFDs which had different outcomes as a counterexample. Ultimately it's not fruitful to shift arguments onto other articles at AFDs. Second, Susan Peters was awarded the Silver Circle Emmy Award (a national not regional Emmy
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Comment: There is no "San Diego region" for the Emmys; California has multiple regions because it is a state of 40M people. The
Pacific Southwest Region in question includes San Diego, but also Las Vegas, Bakersfield, and several other counties which together comprise a population greater than most
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was created by a banned user and there were a lack of sources showing her winning an Emmy, a
Peabody, and a Edward R. Murrow award but not much attempt was made to find them. Maybe that will be my next project! Contrast with Byon where we have sourcing to NATAS and SPJ, and they haven't yet banned
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A regional Emmy is nevertheless a type of Emmy award; as you pointed out, there are
Daytime Emmy Awards, Primetime Emmy Awards, etc. and these awards are "well-known and significant". Every single recipient listed on those pages has their own Knowledge (XXG) page as one would expect. The Emmy is a
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sometimes include the name (e.g. "Pacific
Southwest Emmy Awards"), but the awards themselves are overwhelmingly referred to in the press as "Emmy Awards" or sometimes "regional Emmy Awards". The "regional" is not meant to be diminutive. The awards are by region so that there is fair competition in
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does not address any specific awards on purpose because wikipedia inevitably covers hundreds if not thousands of awards and their winners in many different fields from all over the world. Policies are meant to be painted in broad brush strokes not minute details. Third, the policy already addresses
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Here, it appears there is no independent coverage about Byon, as part of a group, being nominated for regional Emmys, nor about her win of a local SPJ award, nor her local leadership position in the Asian
American Journalists Association, which was inexplicably included in a section titled "Kenosha
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Who made this deletion originally? Things like this are why nobody trusts wikipedia anymore. "Speculation" about her involvement in the stalking of a jury bus in a major court case? There was no speculation. The judge immediately barred her organization from participating in the trial. Stop playing
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None of the coverage so far rises to the level of significance needed to establish notability. The Keep arguments seem to be basing the notability claim on the
Regional Emmy nomination. However, the only sources reporting on the Regional Emmy seem to be from the Academy itself and from NBC, who as
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are not significant awards. They do not receive much media coverage, nor are its winners given much thought or attention for that honor after they win. That is not the case for national Emmy Award nominees and winners who are given much coverage in secondary and tertiary sources in relation to the
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from which Byon graduated. Byon likely wrote the content of this page herself. That is telling. The other sources are also primary sources, with the awards websites, professional society websites, and press releases being used to verify her local award nominations and wins for the San Diego region
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Many of the issues were similar: whether regional Emmys should "count" or not as a measure of notability. For a local/regional journalist this Emmy is the most prestigious award they could receive (as they are not eligible to complete nationally), and so to dismiss the regional Emmy award is to
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states "If you reference such a past debate, and it is clearly a very similar case to the current debate, this can be a strong argument that should not be discounted because of a misconception that this section is a blanket ban on ever referencing other articles or deletion debates." I'm not
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that was used to source other information in the article. What remains is a brief burst of coverage related to a minor viral moment, two regional Emmy nominations, an award from the SPJ, and sources verifying her career and education. Based on my research, there appears to be insufficient
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Susan Peters was admitted to the Silver Circle (a society, not an award) in 2014. The AfD occurred in 2007, and per WP:CRYSTAL the editors did not keep based on some future expectations. Her page was kept based on the significance and notability that her regional Emmys gave her.
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dismiss all other awards they won or could be nominated for. The argument for delete is in essence: no local/regional journalist can achieve notability on the basis of winning awards. That argument was rejected in the Susan Peters AfD and it should be rejected once again today.
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The awards she was nominated for are properly called "Emmy Awards" and were reported in the San Diego Union
Tribune with that name. Deleting that source and substituting a name that is not used widely in the industry does not improve the article. While the regional
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for the
Rittenhouse trial, although inclusion of this material is disputed, and the article otherwise includes clickbait republished on HuffPo from when she was an intern, which may at best be marginal support for notability, if it is suitable for inclusion. The
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US states. If regional Emmys and awards that aren't state wide or national "don't count" for notability, that information should be put explicitly in WP:NJOURNALIST or WP:ANYBIO to reflect that policy. The many !votes to keep suggests to me that it is
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At the time, for Peters, the the only notability factor were the awards (she didn't have a viral coffee video, or a half-dozen news articles naming her in a high-profile murder trial), and with fewer !votes, the result was Keep after just one relist.
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These "regional" Emmy nominations and "local" SPJ award and leadership and "minor" viral moment each originated in the LA/San Diego market, which is tens of millions of people and therefore more competitive. It's a "pattern of involvement" (as per
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concerns I have raised on the article Talk page - for a variety of policy-based reasons, this material does not appear to be suitable for inclusion in Byon's article, and does not appear to offer substantial support for notability per
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Notable for (1) Two Emmy award nominations and the 1st place SPJ Award; (2) Starring role in the "Irene, the Coffee Intern" viral video on
Huffington Post comedy section; and (3) Mentioned by name by the judge in the Kyle Rittenhouse
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While the !votes are tending towards a keep, the majority are not backed by policy/notability guides but rather personal beliefs. I agree with more women on
Knowledge (XXG) too, but that's not a valid reason to !vote
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1225:: The Emmy nom is a very strong indication of notability, even if an award was not obtained. The page could use some reliable sources from news media with SIGCOV so it can remain within the articlespace.
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was a famous example in 2007 where regional Emmys did establish notability, so if that's no longer the case or this AfD was a rare exception, can we please clarify what the official policy is?
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guidelines. Hyperlocal coverage and regional Emmy's, etc, don't = notability or inherited inclusion on Knowledge (XXG). We'd have quadruple the articles about local journalists if they did.
690:, this article should be deleted because there appears to be no substantial support for notability; instead there is a minor viral moment created during the pre-2012 clickbait era of the
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It is common for multiple newspapers or journals to publish the same story, sometimes with minor alterations or different headlines, but one story does not constitute multiple works
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may still be deleted or merged into another article, especially if adequate sourcing or significant coverage cannot be found, or if the topic is not suitable for an encyclopedia.
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BBQboffin, you are missing the forrest for the trees. A few points. First, cherrypicking a single AFD to establish a precedent for regional Emmys is not a valid argument.
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Being a minority and a woman doesn't mean your article is relevant. There's plenty of minority women local news contributors and mid-level network employees out there.
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covering the same new events, e.g. a TV station in Southern California would not be able to cover Hurricane Katrina as well as a news team in New Orleans, for example.
256:. She was only made famous after several news outlets revealed her name. The journalist who got pulled over by police doesn't have an article. Perhaps redirect to the
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individual (e.g. local leadership position, regional Emmy nominations, local SPJ award) and her roles in the minor events are not substantial or well-documented. Per
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event she's notable for. I see "a pattern of involvement in smaller (but still worthy of mention) events", which, considered in aggregate, make the subject notable.
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and consequently it is only two sentences out of twelve currently in the article. 5 of the 15 sources pertain to it but I only added more to try to address the
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found confirms her job title and location and quotes the judge's verbatim words in court, naming her in context, so I added it to the article just now, thanks.
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I'm not aware that Epoch Times or "what appeared to be a blog" was ever a source for anything in this article and it isn't currently. The Snopes source that
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for years now. I believe the subject is at least marginally notable and this article might help Knowledge (XXG) look less like a boys' club. Furthermore,
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Ah, I see the your source I originally put on was sourced by Epoch Times. Careless of me. Good catch there, and good riddance to it, but a moot point (
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Inexplicable? Hardly. Sorry, I've only been editing a few months and I make a lot of mistakes; thanks for fixing the location of the section heading.
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because the award itself is not notable. Only Emmys at the national level are considered evidence for meeting ANYBIO or NJOURNALIST. Subject lacks
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her employer can not be considered a neutral 3rd-party source. As such, she's really only known for this one footnote from the Rittenhouse trial.
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cherry-picking Susan Peters, but I am sticking a tag on your claim that there's a "long standing precedent" that regional Emmys aren't notable.
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872:(San Diego Union Tribune, 2020) from the article because it does not mention Byon, but I think it helps show the SPJ San Diego award is not
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1331:. If you look at the sources, none of the independent references have Irene Byon as the primary subject. The article is mainly sourced to
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409:- the inclusion of speculation about the involvement of her and a third-party in the Kenosha bus incident appears to be contradicted by
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article. Being nominated twice as part of a group for a regional Emmy therefore does not appear to be the type of award considered
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noted above, there appear to be multiple concerns raised about whether regional Emmys can create a presumption of notability per
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The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times
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well-known and significant award and winners are notable, as are those who have been nominated multiple times. She was
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generally include verifiable criteria about a topic which show that appropriate sourcing likely exists for that topic
1593:. There is mention of an Emmy; however, its simply a local Emmy award, which (as mentioned above) doesn't qualify.
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seems relevant because there are no significant events for which reliable sources cover Byon, she appears to be a
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because of the awards. I also don't think it hurts Knowledge (XXG) to have more articles on female journalists.
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the lack of notability for regional Emmy winners in its language, "well-known and significant award or honor".
826:- the awards and award nominations would seem to establish notability irrespective of anything Kenosha related
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Award for media professionals). As such, I don't think comparing her to Byon is helpful. Third, the policy at
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1265:. Article is notable and reliable sources are present. Its organized and good quality so its a keep from me.
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Yes, (3) made her "famous" as the OP noted, but she was "notable" for (1) and (2) before that happened.
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and article may also be relevant, because there is independent reporting on her national Emmy award.
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1307:. Long standing AFD precedent is that regional Emmy Awards are non-notable, and all recipients fail
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Comment: The link to Snopes now says the story is "True" (it had been "Unproven" on November 22).
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1502:. BBQboffin, by my count you have at least fourteen counter-arguments here which is approaching
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Thanks everyone for participating and if you disagree with this decision please take it to
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417:, so I removed it, along with what appeared to be a blog that relied on a report from the
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received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable
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consensus here "that regional Emmy Awards are non-notable". As I pointed out above,
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does not appear to have sufficient support according to our policies and guidelines.
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1589:. A regional TV journalist - RS doesn't establish broad notability - fails GNG and
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67:- unless there is a tech issue. Thanks for assuming good faith and happy holidays!
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notability, including because these are for work with a group at NBC 7 San Diego,
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Susan_Peters_(TV_anchor)
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I found a rather famous AfD involving a journalist with regional Emmys in 2007:
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Union-Tribune wins 36 awards including top news site in local journalism contest
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372:: This article is about a minority woman journalist, a gap that Knowledge (XXG)
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More of a foot note in the Kenosha affair, rather than notable on her own.
880:. The two Pacific Southwest Emmy nominations also do not appear to support
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where I removed what appears to be a blog that relies on a report from the
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were raised in the discussion that resulted in a consensus to delete. The
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577:- she's been nominated or won for multiple awards that seem significant.
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me for misplacing section headings and mistakenly linking to blogs. :)
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informed my thoughts: While (3) is "One Dominant Event", it is not the
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Mere nomination for a regional Emmy is irrelevant towards notability .
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article linked above discusses the San Diego SPJ award, not the Emmys.
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coverage of her work as a journalist. Beyond the concerns discussed on
1494:. A regional TV journalist whose career doesn't meet the criteria in
1444:. Regardless, other discussions really aren't pertinent to this one.
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In the revision history of the article, I noted in the edit summary
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the University of California's Annenberg Media Center's alumni page
1666:. References are very very poor. No indication of being notable.
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Rachel Frank (meteorologist)
1327:, please consider the strength of the arguments in your close per
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Marginal, as noted above; barely meets criteria, but still meets.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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This requires more discussion on whether being nominated for a
780:- She has credentials as a producer with a major media outlet.
644:, which you appear to have added when you created this article
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I think the additional reporting by Snopes helps emphasize the
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
1498:. Passing mention in the Rittenhouse case doesn't constitute
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Pacific Southwest Chapter of the National Television Academy
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Pacific Southwest Chapter of the National Television Academy
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Sigh. There are many counterexamples BBQboffin. Such as
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criteria supported by independent and reliable sources.
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –
1099:and the AfD discussion itself became a news story.
1057:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
807:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
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1175:provide guidance when topics should not be created
1173:also states that some SNGs, including for people,
843:I think this is a fairly marginal case, but meets
426:support from independent and reliable sources for
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1319:significant coverage in multiple sources. Fails
384:and she has received a first place prize in the
351:Note: This discussion has been included in the
336:list of South Korea-related deletion discussions
334:Note: This discussion has been included in the
317:Note: This discussion has been included in the
300:Note: This discussion has been included in the
278:Note: This discussion has been included in the
353:list of California-related deletion discussions
319:list of Journalism-related deletion discussions
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1164:. The article appears to function more as a
122:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
874:a well-known and significant award or honor
280:list of People-related deletion discussions
392:and has been nominated for an Emmy Award.
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302:list of Women-related deletion discussions
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960:List of International Emmy Award winners
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1469:. I agree with the above, this fails
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18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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956:List of Primetime Emmy Award winners
386:Society of Professional Journalists
1539:Emmy award constitutes notability.
1202:discussion, it looks like the page
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450:partisan hackery on wiki, please.
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997:and not merely "part of a team".
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107:Introduction to deletion process
65:Knowledge (XXG):Deletion review
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374:has been attempting to close
97:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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1723:Please do not modify it.
1603:- strike double !vote -
1147:2018 Leslie Cockburn AfD
522:even if it is included.
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950:- for example, compare
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258:Kenosha unrest shooting
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179:edits since nomination
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1399:Regional Emmy Awards
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1131:2007 AfD discussion
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89:
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48:The result was
41:deletion review
30:
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12:
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1664:WP:NJOURNALIST
1653:
1640:WP:NJOURNALIST
1638:fails GNG and
1633:
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1595:Deathlibrarian
1591:WP:NJOURNALIST
1584:
1540:
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1479:Deathlibrarian
1471:WP:NJOURNALIST
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1313:WP:NJOURNALIST
1301:WP:NJOURNALIST
1294:
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1198:As I read the
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747:WP:MINORASPECT
724:WP:MINORASPECT
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252:. She has not
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58:WP:NJOURNALIST
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1496:WP:JOURNALIST
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1419:WP:OTHERSTUFF
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840:
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796:
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726:of her BLP.
708:WP:SECONDARY
663:WP:IMPERFECT
634:
610:
593:
570:
547:— Preceding
542:
455:— Preceding
448:
424:WP:SECONDARY
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62:
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31:
28:
1671:scope_creep
1621:WP:ANYBIO.
1504:WP:BLUDGEON
1329:WP:NOTAVOTE
1317:independent
1166:WP:COATRACK
1143:WP:COATRACK
948:Emmy Awards
684:low-profile
411:WP:BLPCRIME
284:Destroyeraa
262:Destroyeraa
212:free images
1026:Mwinog2777
974:. And the
899:notability
868:I removed
605:The essay
131:Irene Byon
83:Irene Byon
1727:talk page
1706:Aervanath
1660:WP:SIGCOV
1500:WP:SIGCOV
1424:BBQboffin
1394:WP:ANYBIO
1363:BBQboffin
1321:WP:SIGCOV
1309:WP:ANYBIO
1227:Multi7001
1208:BBQboffin
1137:. In the
1135:WP:ANYBIO
1113:BBQboffin
1078:Oaktree b
999:BBQboffin
972:WP:ANYBIO
931:BBQboffin
903:secondary
882:WP:ANYBIO
878:WP:ANYBIO
845:WP:ANYBIO
755:BBQboffin
667:BBQboffin
622:BBQboffin
553:Shamona99
485:BBQboffin
378:WP:ANYBIO
358:Spiderone
341:Spiderone
324:Spiderone
307:Spiderone
37:talk page
1729:or in a
1643:Cedar777
1605:Beccaynr
1525:Relisted
1299:. Fails
1183:Beccaynr
1043:Relisted
980:Beccaynr
911:Beccaynr
799:Relisted
782:— Maile
728:Beccaynr
702:states,
700:WP:BLP1E
688:WP:BLP1E
680:WP:BLP1E
649:Beccaynr
618:Beccaynr
561:contribs
549:unsigned
524:Beccaynr
516:WP:BASIC
469:contribs
457:unsigned
436:Beccaynr
432:WP:BASIC
380:states:
175:View log
116:glossary
69:Missvain
39:or in a
1512:Riband►
1446:4meter4
1404:4meter4
1338:4meter4
1223:Comment
1129:In the
1127:Comment
1093:Comment
962:to the
866:Comment
718:, fn 3
635:Comment
507:WP:NPOV
250:WP:NBIO
218:WP refs
206:scholar
148:protect
143:history
93:New to
1701:Delete
1682:Delete
1658:Fails
1656:Delete
1636:Delete
1587:Delete
1577:buidhe
1563:Delete
1492:Delete
1475:WP:GNG
1467:Delete
1305:WP:GNG
1297:Delete
1074:Delete
1059:Ifnord
958:, and
828:TocMan
809:Daniel
716:WP:GNG
696:WP:RSP
597:trial.
543:Delete
511:WP:NOT
509:, and
503:WP:BLP
452:WP:NOT
415:Snopes
407:Delete
260:page?
248:Fails
190:Google
152:delete
54:WP:GNG
50:delete
1692:talk
1054:keep.
841:Keep:
751:WP:RS
694:(per
594:Keep.
579:NHCLS
233:JSTOR
194:books
169:views
161:watch
157:links
16:<
1710:talk
1662:and
1647:talk
1627:talk
1619:Keep
1609:talk
1599:talk
1546:brad
1509:Blue
1483:talk
1473:and
1450:talk
1428:talk
1408:talk
1367:talk
1342:talk
1311:and
1303:and
1288:talk
1280:Keep
1271:talk
1263:Keep
1240:Keep
1231:talk
1212:talk
1187:talk
1117:talk
1082:talk
1063:talk
1030:talk
1022:Keep
1003:talk
984:talk
970:per
935:talk
915:talk
890:2021
886:2019
876:per
853:talk
832:talk
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813:talk
786:talk
778:Keep
759:talk
732:talk
671:talk
653:talk
626:talk
611:only
583:talk
571:Keep
557:talk
528:talk
489:talk
465:talk
440:talk
413:and
398:talk
370:Keep
226:FENS
200:news
165:logs
139:talk
135:edit
73:talk
1687:DGG
1355:not
907:BLP
518:or
430:or
240:TWL
173:– (
56:or
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