873:
could maybe be a reference to the
Sanhedrin, but does not appear to be referred to with this name). The Jewish revolt itself definitely seems legit, but the particular terminology made me suspicious of a subtle joke on the "People's Front of Judea/Judean Peoples' Front" from Monty Python's Life of Brian. Like it was referring to real things, just with anachronistic terminology. That being said, there were apparently some references in Josephus' Jewish War to Ananus (a leader of the Jewish rebellion) as being "unique in his love for liberty and an enthusiast for democracy", and some coins minted from the Jewish revolt being inscribed with mentions of freedom, so the terminology might not be that crazy, but then on the other hand, it may have just served to make a subtle Monty Python joke here less immediately noticeable. Again considering there's still little to no sources specifically claiming a "Judean Free Government" or "Judean People's Assembly"
783:
378:- and the Judean Free Government content in both places was created by the same person {u|Greyshark09}}. He was notified on his talk page about this discussion so I hope he will come here eventually. He is quite prolific with ancient history and wrote 182 articles. The sourcing for this is poor, and I flagged
424:
That's where I saw it too. While I'm no expert, like the help desk inquirer, I don't see any sources for a "Judean Free
Government" or a "People's Assembly". Maybe hoax is too strong a word, but something is definitely not right if the terminology is so screwy. Also, what function does this article
872:
I was the one who originally thought something was up and posted to the help desk. To be clear, the questionable issues for me were specifically the name (and its use in other articles about the first Jewish-Roman War as well), as well as the article mentioning a "Judean People's
Assembly" (which
1042:
is actually quite a rational presentation of material present in less rational texts - the skit itself is well grounded in history (with "People's Front of Judea" and "Judean People's Front" being merely name adaptations of the inter-fighting between the Jewish factions - following the
601:
598:
855:, but the Judeans has to fight the Romans without the support of the King of France. And so they lost.) There is no consensus name for the rebel government of Judea in this period, invalidating comments above about failed searches for "Judean Free government".
566:
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980:
We should probably go with ] because 70 is the year the Temple and the city of
Jerusalem were destroyed; and the last year coins were minted (coins are valuable in setting dates because they are so concrete.)
919:
You have a point on "free" (though it might be possible to source in Hebrew, English, or another langauge). The "People's
Assembly" seems to me to refer to a gathering of a crowd of people in the Temple by
569:
to "the rebel government" (p. 181) and "the government in Judea that left the region in a state of anarchy" (p. 34). Maybe the article should be retitled "Rebel government in Judea AD **-**" or similar
382:
for being unreferenced. I did Google Judean Free
Government and it appears what little coverage there is is lifted from this article, but I'm wondering why you think it's a hoax.
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as described by the article. What grounds are there for identifying part or all of the article as a hoax (or otherwise inaccurate) other than its name and limited sourcing?
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article would be needed -- there looks enough to justify spinout from previous target, and a government should have a separate article even if permanently relatively short
1047:
the
Zealots fought amongs themselves, different factions laid seige to different portions of Jerusalem, and destroyed food stores of each other - making the Roman task in
897:, my mind went straight to Monty Python when I saw this one listed at AfD. It isn't. It is, an article about a real government (real revolt, real army, real coins, real
905:.) Page needs improvement, but all this discussion lacks to support notability is consensus on a page name. And there are sources from which an article can be created.
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I'm not seeing support in the literature for the name of a "free" government or "people's" assembly. In fact, I initially confused this nomenclature with the
611:(which uses provisional government as well as the occasional Jerusalem junta). The article is not a hoax - the sole glaring issue I see is the use of "free".
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would be supported by sources, as would a number of other permutations). There was a provisional or rebel government in Judea in 66-68. See for instance -
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much easier (probably hopeless for the Jews regardless - but without the interfighting the city might have held out more than the few months it did)).
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1070:- as already mentioned, the "hoax" claim for deleting the article doesn't stand and i'm glad the community decided to keep it and expand. Thanks
357:: The naming of this article might be questionable, but it appears that there was a short-lived de-facto governing entity of Judea under Ananus
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605:
Ilan, Tal, and
Jonathan J. Price. "Seven Onomastic Problems in Josephus'" Bellum Judaicum"." The Jewish Quarterly Review (1993): 189-208.
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They are distinct. The great assembly (or
Knesset) is the namesake of the modern Knesset (as well as the basis for choosing 120 MKs).
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951:. Thanks all. That's my remaing concerns gone. Prefer ] as there was another rebel government formed in 132CE - see
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that existed during a Revolt often described as the most serious rebellion in the entire history of the Roman Empire
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816:(obviously referring to internal rebellions, not foreign wars, wars of conquest, and invasions of the Empire.)
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The information has encyclopediac value but does not need its own article. I think it could be merged with
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241:. Not surprisingly, none of the bios of the people linked in this article mention this "Free Government".
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for bringing more references, those would benefit the article. My choice for rename would be ] .
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that it was a "real" government while it lasted, mustering and paying armies, issuing coinage.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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It's not a badly written article. It gives a pretty accurate description of the short-lived
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Maybe there's some explanatory translation going on somewhere? For "People's
Assembly" see
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might be alternative titles if this warrants a standalone article rather than a merge to
928:'s call some 200 years prior) - the choice of words may be off, but this is in Josephus.
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The book given as Ref 2 does support the statement where it is cited (p. 11)
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covers the same ground in as much detail and with much more context.
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First Jewish–Roman War#Gallus' campaign and Judean Free Government
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First_Jewish–Roman_War#Gallus'_campaign_and_Judean_Free_Government
376:
First_Jewish–Roman_War#Gallus'_campaign_and_Judean_Free_Government
374:- Edit conflict - I noticed this article originally redirected to
1097:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
847:, about the coins minted by this government. (Similar to
474:) , which preceded forming of the provisional government.
551:
First Century Galilee: A Fresh Examination of the Sources
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Not even backed up by the only verifiable source given.
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730:that this government fits into the period of the
275:Maybe just poorly sourced and incorrectly named.
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1109:). No further edits should be made to this page.
648:Note: This discussion has been included in the
628:Note: This discussion has been included in the
333:Note: This discussion has been included in the
315:list of Middle East-related deletion discussions
313:Note: This discussion has been included in the
901:, real politicians - all verifiable using real
397:For context, I just saw this at the help desk:
967:strike "AD". Either use "CE" or no era label.
924:prior to forming the government (a bit like
8:
849:Early American currency#Continental currency
630:list of Judaism-related deletion discussions
335:list of History-related deletion discussions
107:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
52:. There is consensus to rename the article.
650:list of Israel-related deletion discussions
647:
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332:
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237:A hoax, but not quite blatant enough for
999:Judean provisional government (66-70 CE)
820:Judean provisional government (66-68 AD)
786:A coin issued by the rebels in 68, note
703:I fail to see what this has to do with
818:I suggest we go with a modern usage:
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
548:Bradley W. Root (17 October 2014).
589:. The page title is an issue (but
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1040:Monty Python's Life of Brian#Plot
493:that we have longstanding pages
92:Introduction to deletion process
707:, a modern political proposal.
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761:Judean provisional government
595:Judean provisional government
1090:21:12, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
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678:Proposals for a Jewish state
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621:13:32, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
582:13:14, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
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511:20:13, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
501:which probably need merging.
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462:07:51, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
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62:14:45, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
845:First Jewish Revolt coinage
676:into an article similar to
82:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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1049:Siege of Jerusalem (70 CE)
843:that we have an article,
1099:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
757:Judean rebel government
755:. As suggested above,
753:People's Front of Judea
591:Judean rebel government
554:. Mohr Siebeck. p. 11.
812:provisional government
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802:: "Jerusalem the Holy"
765:First Jewish–Roman War
427:First Jewish–Roman War
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68:Judean Free Government
788:Paleo-Hebrew alphabet
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451:? I think a separate
80:Articles for deletion
997:I'm down with that:
50:Nomination withdrawn
1045:Zealot Temple Siege
1018:Withdraw nomination
798:, Israel. Year 3."
609:this Routledge book
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709:E.M.Gregory
503:E.M.Gregory
466:Beyond the
201:free images
926:Mattathias
573:Bhunacat10
279:The Banner
264:The Banner
1103:talk page
1078:GreyShark
899:Sanhedrin
565:and also
499:Sanhedrin
468:Sanhedrin
449:Sanhedrin
296:per above
239:WP:SPEEDY
37:talk page
1105:or in a
875:HelpPls?
853:Yorktown
355:Question
298:Garuda28
160:View log
101:glossary
39:or in a
1068:Comment
1053:Icewhiz
930:Icewhiz
800:Reverse
792:Obverse
749:Comment
654:Icewhiz
634:Icewhiz
613:Icewhiz
578:(talk),
544:Comment
521:Icewhiz
476:Icewhiz
425:serve?
372:Comment
207:WP refs
195:scholar
133:protect
128:history
78:New to
1022:rename
895:WP:HEY
796:Shekel
567:refers
294:Delete
258:Delete
179:Google
137:delete
1085:dibra
1038:FWIW
903:WP:RS
670:Merge
607:, or
222:JSTOR
183:books
167:Stats
154:views
146:watch
142:links
16:<
1057:talk
1030:talk
1020:and
1007:talk
987:talk
949:Keep
934:talk
911:talk
893:Oh,
879:talk
870:Note
861:talk
841:Note
832:talk
824:Note
822:.
808:Keep
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728:Note
713:talk
680:. -
658:talk
638:talk
617:talk
587:Keep
556:ISBN
525:talk
507:talk
497:and
491:Note
480:talk
435:talk
343:talk
323:talk
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284:talk
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247:talk
215:FENS
189:news
150:logs
124:talk
120:edit
58:talk
794:: "
229:TWL
158:– (
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