1663:, the company she co-founded with her husband. I'm surprised no one has created an article about her husband, so they could cut and paste most of this article over there. After merging the article, it may be that Chen becomes notable in her own right. In that case her subsection in Tenet Media would expand so that a daughter article would make sense. It's possible that the DOJ will follow their example in the Russian troll farm story. Drop the charges against Russian nationals and never charge anyone in the U.S. If so, there may be nothing to add to the story as Chen and her husband slip back into obscurity.
1417:: to an article about the "Russian influence peddling" or something similar. I don't see much notability as youtuber before she was suspended, due to the lack of coverage. The Tampa Bay article is fine, but almost 90% to be found is about the new "event" regarding her allegedly taking Russian money. I don't see her as notable except for the allegations. I seriously doubt she'll be the only person caught in this "event". I'm not even sure drafting would help at this point.
361:
Now they are and that is likely to continue. While WP is "not the news," this appears to be a significant event, the background of which will be of broad public interest for a significant period of time. Chen's personal and professional history will be of importance to readers as they seek to learn about the events.
1516:
360:
A simple date-restricted Google search reveals that Chen is widely-known and has been widely discussed across the internet for several years. Until the recent
Russian influence allegations, her actions weren't such that she would have reason to be discussed much on what Knowledge (XXG) considers RSs.
1582:
based on the comments above, it is clear that editors are politically motivated to "Keep" and not making fact-based recommendations. This page belongs in a catalog related to suspected
Russian influencing. I am a right-wing media consumer and I have never heard of Lauren Chen until the scandal. This
452:
Assuming that's true, while we're limited to using only RSs as authorities for statements made in articles, I don't think we're required to ignore entirely the vast non-RS universe in considering the general noteworthiness of subject matter. It would be disingenuous to say that someone isn't notable
375:
As you mentioned, Chen has been active on the internet for quite some time, which I is why I was surprised there don't seem to be strong sources to establish notability beyond this event. Looking at the present article, there isn't enough coverage RSs for notability, which is the primary concern. At
228:
This BLP was created following the announcement that Chen has been indicted by the DOJ for disseminating pro-Russian propaganda. All the sources used in the article discuss the indictment, and the article's primary focus is the indictment. A draft currently exists, which directs back to this page. I
1045:
I unfortunately believe we should keep this up as a reference for people needing to understand who she is and what she stands for. I believe it is necessary to document the bad as well as the good. I was watching news coverage and that is how I found out about the wiki page. If she is indicted as a
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much too dramatically un-encyclopedic, and, sadly, "aiders and abetters of severe crimes against humanity" looks like it is a factual description of Tenet and their influencer portfolio. Vigilance is thus advised: Knowledge (XXG) should not be like Tim Pool and freely waive its due diligence here.
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This will most likely be a significant event for a while and she will be a significant person at the center of it. Also, as John wrote, A simple date-restricted Google search reveals that Chen is widely-known and has been widely discussed across the internet for several years. Also the nominator
1637:
To preserve the integrity (what little is left) of WP... this article which was hastily made after the scandal, and appears to be primarily about the allegations, should be merged with an already exsisting page dedicated to other such allegations. It's pretty straightforward. Now you're going on
1604:
it is clear that anybody making this type comments is politically motivated. Is there something false in this page? Is it documenting the reality? Then why do you want to delete it? Do you want to cover it up? As a right wing voter are you not agreeing with Trump buddy Elon Musk about freedom of
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as a questionable source given its partisan nature, especially as it introduces Chen as "an anti-LGBTQ bigot who uses her social media accounts to spread conspiratorial, far-right misinformation". Regardless of whether that's true, less inflammatory sources would be better.
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had a page on her since 15 November 2018, which as of now has 73 sources, not a few of which fulfil WP:RS. The sheer volume of information in the RW article alone a) demonstrates that subject is considered of elevated and long-standing relevance for at least part of the
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have searched for coverage prior to
September 1 but have yet to find anything to establish notability (which is honestly surprising to me). I found a few academic journal articles that mention Chen, but there is no SIGCOV. Otherwise, internet sources appear to be primary.
678:
article has some good coverage, though it's worth noting most of the commentary regarding Chen comes from direct quotations from her videos, which wouldn't count toward notability; however, the source itself I'd say counts toward notability. I'd also question
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has a single sentence about Chen: "Lauren Chen, another TPUSA influencer, re-posted a
Fuentes clip condemning the 'repugnant and evil' Israeli government — and called it a 'more balanced and rational take on Israel/Palestine than the entire political
1716:. I understand that someone might have thought this was a case of BLP1E, but after all the secondary sources and ongoing coverage that have been found about the subject, no reasonable person would believe this person is not notable. I recall that
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Indictment directly pertaining to subject (as partially knowing accessory to the main accused) being speedily and thoroughly acted upon by US and
Canadian law enforcement and Youtube indicates these all consider the allegations well
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thanks to the incidents of the past few days. The only question is whether we should cover the person in a page about the person, or elsewhere. Her having played a noteworthy role in multiple prior dust-ups favors the former.
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Subject highly likely to be found even more deeply involved in organized criminal activity involving at least Canada, the USA, Hungary and Russia, as soon as
Canadian law enforcements publicly take steps to act against
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I don't think that would cover it. It seems to be a general campaign against the US, election or not. I suppose that might work for now, until we have more details around the entirety of the disinformation campaign.
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says that " All the sources used in the article discuss the indictment, and the article's primary focus is the indictment". I believe she might be mistaken as there are at least three that discuss her exclusively.
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says we are dealing with a network here whose mission includes targeted falsification of trusted public sources. Calling such people and their helpers "sworn enemies of
Knowledge (XXG) and all it stands for" is not
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also has a single sentence about Chen: "'If you support this 'antisemitism' hate speech bill not only are you spitting on the first amendment you are openly denying the Bible as well,' wrote Blaze TV host Lauren
197:
1111:
A glance over the "forfeiture" parts of the indictment quickly demonstrates that this seizure of assets associated with Chen/Donovan is certain to have major ramifications for wikinotable BLP articles such as
1074:. Subject is alleged by US Federal authorities to have participated in significant organized transborder criminal activity, which is even relevant to the largest ICC war crime investigations so far -
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has a single sentence about Chen: "BlazeTV host Lauren Chen accused studios of hiding how “INSUFFERABLY WOKE” Barbie is in promotional materials, also pointing to the film’s anti-patriarchal themes."
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has a single sentence about Chen: "TPUSA contributor Lauren Chen promoted white nationalist Nick
Fuentes' thoughts on the Israel-Hamas war, calling his take on the conflict 'balanced and rational.'"
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YouTube, in Vlogs, podcasts, etc. Under WP rules, those sources can't be used as evidence of the truth of statements they include, but should certainly be evidence that such statements were made.
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In this case, every single condition is not met, let alone, just one condition not being met. In this case, therefore, it seems clear that it should not be deleted on the basis of WP:BLP1E.
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If this is deleted then why not everything about or referencing the
Holocaust? It is something that we don't like remembering. But it is there so we don't make mistakes from the past!
1244:: there are a lot of keep !votes on this AfD but few engage seriously with wikipedia policies or the concerns of the nominator. Those arguing for keep, if you could address issues of
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the
RationalWiki article be mined for information and sources suitable for inclusion in Knowledge (XXG), and the present article expanded, and copyedited for quality, accordingly.
1527:. She was just another opinionated person online that no one noticed (outside of her core audience), until this scandal happened. She's just not notable, at this point in time.
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723:. Chen easily has enough coverage in the media to warrant a Knowledge (XXG) article, especially considering recent events. If anything, she should've already been here.
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and don't accuse others of attempting some kind of political cover-up for saying something innocuous like "the scandal constitutes the majority of her notoriety". --
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That cannot be used to expand the article, therefore it's not notability. Anyone can make a statement, so such stuff isn't documented unless an RS sees it important.
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1159:, it is to be expected that subject's notability will increase significantly as pertinent criminal investigations continue and ramify, and all things considered
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2- She will not remain a low profile individual, as this case will continue to evolve, and in either case, she was not a low profile individual to begin with.
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I've seen innumerable articles in the last day or about her being a Russian agent. This nomination really surprises me, given how massive this story is.
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There were insufficient sources to create an article before she was mentioned in an indictment. Most of the material in the article is a duplication of
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is an outrageous personal attack on an active new page patroller who is quite familiar with the guidelines for deletion discussions. Please remember to
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a current-event warning and other appropriate warnings (BLP?) and possibly editing restrictions (certified good-faith editors only?) ought to be added,
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Easily sourced coverage prior to recent events, which is overkill considering that something being recent is not a valid criteria for deletion.
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1521:, which seems like OAN and the like, I'd not call it a RS. There's the Singapore piece I linked in my first comment, this in the Daily Beast
823:
1439:" article would be an appropriate place to merge, or would there be a better/different article that focuses more directly on this incident?
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If she is notable because of the event solely, then a separate article should be created about the investigation (as is being discussed in
756:, though? Although Chen has been prominent online for a while, sources haven't been provided to establish notability prior to this event.
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the extended circumstances of this RfD also suggest it is not a bad idea to check the nominator's log for bad-faith editing activity.
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Meets significant coverage IMO with reliable source articles about her and/or mentioning her going back to 2019 being cited.
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Lauren Chen may be attempting to delete this page to stop others from learning about the serious accussations against her.
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There are multiple secondary sources that discussed her influence in right wing media spheres before recent events such as
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1127:, who suddenly find themselves with the bulk (perhaps up to 90%) of their operational cash flow cut with no prior warning
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This page should not be deleted. Only information that is not real. Information that IS real and MISSING should be added.
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I can keep looking, but I don't think policy/guidelines/common practice demands it (even setting aside how the "SIG" in
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erratically about political figures that have nothing to do with the article or the scandal. You're proving my point.
1563:
per Swinxy's sources and Paul's analysis above. I commend the nominator for her courage and would not oppose a merge.
1078:
the US DoJ narrative is basically accurate (and so far everything checkable checks out consistently) she would fulfil
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Knowledge (XXG) is not about deleting what is not convenient for one or another but for documenting facts and history.
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This is a Kremlin backed, right wing influencer attemting to hide her online profiles. DO NOT ALLOW HER TO DELETE.
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of this RfD also suggest it is not a bad idea to check the nominator's log for bad-faith editing activity. 5 ct and
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424:"‘They STILL blame the right!’ Lauren Chen blasts MSM’s ‘very violent rhetoric’ after Trump assassination attempt"
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The article cites to various RSs that predate the indictment. They may have been been added after your review.
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is the “lite” in “alt-lite?” The discourse of white vulnerability and dominance among YouTube’s reactionaries
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I think the preeding points do strongly advocate considering the delete request misguided, if not frivolous.
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The event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented.
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to try and filter out the recent noise... There just isn't enough about her in RS. A ton in the GBNews
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part of this current legal process, there will be more that should be added to it in the near future.
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1256:. The question at hand is whether it is appropriate to have a standalone biography for her, given the
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is oft in the eye of the beholder). We have all the coverage one could ask for in order to get over
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1524:, which is a marginal source. Even in the years before that, the Tampa Bay article is all there is
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1252:, that would be very helpful. It is very obvious that we will be covering Lauren Chen on wikipedia
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405:"Conservative influencers battle over Israel, ‘America First,’ and antisemitism after Hamas attack"
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present, 8/33 sources were published before the scandal broke, none of which establish notability:
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information in particular (Tenet Media indictment being only a small addendum to the RW article).
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Each of these sources provide 1-3 sentences on Chen each. Can you find anything with SIGCOV?
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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We generally should avoid having an article on a person when each of three conditions is met
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1341:, for example, has a separate article because the single event he was associated with, the
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380:"Man threatening Lauren Chen for being against reparations saying she will be "dealt with""
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Streaming to transgress: the racial politics of reactionary YouTubers and their audiences
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327:, I don't think it's enough... She will almost certainly be notable for the scandal.
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That seems quite clear and decisive. Does anyone have a counter-argument to that?
1319:. Biographies in these cases can give undue weight to the event and conflict with
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Aforementioned law enforcement and social media actions directly affected subject.
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386:"‘Barbie’ Largely Praised For Feminist Themes—But Draws Anger From The Anti-Woke"
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418:"New 'Barbie' movie is TOXIC feminism to a T – 'Ken is just a great accessory'"
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community", and b) could expand the Knowledge (XXG) article considerably with
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Such scrutiny will predictably lead to the publishing of such an abundance of
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The legal papers just dropped today, nothing's even been started, trial-wise.
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in addition to the publications that were already mentioned. The criteria in
312:" (Significa liberdade added these sources around the time of the nomination)
1515:: I've done a date limited google search, from December 2023 to August 2024
1359:
1- There are reliable sources that cover her in three separate events: see:
1029:
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to outweigh the detriment of them being mostly primary and/or newsmedia RS.
392:"Republicans Voting for Bill That Could Make 'Bible Illegal' Outrages MAGA"
1345:, was significant, and his role was both substantial and well documented.
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Reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event.
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where there is an indisputable plethora of diverse non-RS discussion.
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almost TOOSOON. About all I could find from before the scandal is this
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is parroting what Chen said in an interview, so it's a primary source.
1720:
was nominated years ago, but even then it was because of ignorance.
1283:
Here is my attempt to directly address this: WP:BLP1E means that
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existed, would he have been notable enough for Knowledge (XXG)?"
399:"Right-wingers start to turn on this pro-Trump propaganda group"
1796:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
1605:
speech? Now you want to delete what is not in your interest?
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all three of these conditions need to be met, to delete this.
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Has Chen (or Tenet) been officially convicted of any crimes?
412:"Lauren Chen on why the Golden Globes was miserable to watch"
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per significant coverage from multiple reliable sources. —
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There's just one day left, so I say let it formal close.
1315:
The person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a
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Russian interference in the 2024 United States elections
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1583:scandal constitutes the majority of her notoriety.
807:
One could perhaps make the case that Lauren Chen is
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925:: Please note this story from The Hill from 2019:
811:, I don't think that ultimately holds up. To the
660:have coverage of Chen before this came to light.
433:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Tenet Media
317:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Tenet Media
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1808:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1161:I strongly advocate that, for the time being, a)
546:Note: This discussion has been included in the
248:Note: This discussion has been included in the
1022:"The women of the far right" by Eviane Leidig
1018:Rebecca Lewis' report "Alternative Influence"
8:
102:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
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1323:. In such cases, it is usually better to
631:Then create an article about the event?
300:Academic publications mentioning Chen: "
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1591:2600:1015:B11E:FABB:B905:BD29:9318:CCEF
1331:the person's name to the event article.
982:2600:1700:1A32:EE30:A41D:C079:4CBE:5596
748:: Does the current coverage fall under
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1216:
945:Clearly notable enough for inclusion.
382:is a broken link, even in the archive
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
964:- this discussion should be closed
24:
1374:3. The event is very significant
809:a person only known for one event
467:What would non-RS discussion be?
550:lists for the following topics:
252:lists for the following topics:
87:Introduction to deletion process
1787:20:10, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
1768:18:05, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
1751:15:04, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
1730:18:37, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
1701:09:54, 11 September 2024 (UTC)
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310:Right-Wing Populism and Gender
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1758:. Clearly passes GNG now. --
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1082:more easily if anything than
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1038:21:22, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
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800:22:21, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
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741:21:09, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
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627:20:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
610:18:03, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
591:17:55, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
581:per John2510 and PaulPachad.
573:16:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
541:16:30, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
448:20:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
371:16:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
351:16:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
337:15:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
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1356:Argument for each condition:
1343:Reagan assassination attempt
1291:Direct quote of the WP:BLP1E
598:per PaulPachad and John2510
77:(AfD)? Read these primers!
1825:
1773:Close this as a SNOW keep.
866:the general notability bar
778:. Coverage is sufficient.
1619:IPv4, please remember to
1180:100% Keep so far and the
1798:Please do not modify it.
1020:and especially the book
815:link above we could add
32:Please do not modify it.
928:Please close this AfD.
1657:Merge with Tenet Media
1317:low-profile individual
526:I strongly agree with
159:edits since nomination
1321:neutral point of view
948:(Heroeswithmetaphors)
75:Articles for deletion
1441:Significa liberdade
1435:! Do you think the "
1327:the information and
885:Significa liberdade
845:Significa liberdade
758:Significa liberdade
686:Significa liberdade
437:Significa liberdade
420:is a primary source.
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435:) with a redirect.
1072:Strong Speedy Keep
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1669:comment added by
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92:Guide to deletion
82:How to contribute
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1223:, thank you. --
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1260:concerns. --
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1766:) (PING me)
1755:
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1718:Procul Harem
1705:
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1665:— Preceding
1656:
1585:— Preceding
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1499:Kiluvitar101
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1478:— Preceding
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1157:Consequently
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1048:— Preceding
1042:
1028:aren't met.
1013:
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746:Mungo Kitsch
734:
727:Mungo Kitsch
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556:Conservatism
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31:
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1661:Tenet Media
1138:Furthermore
1090:. Notably:
962:Speedy Keep
943:Speedy Keep
923:Speedy Keep
795:per others
721:Speedy Keep
615:Speedy Keep
192:free images
111:Lauren Chen
63:Lauren Chen
1625:asilvering
1384:PaulPachad
1262:asilvering
1225:asilvering
1151:non-recent
1147:fact-based
1114:Dave Rubin
966:Superb Owl
871:XOR'easter
831:XOR'easter
708:Kakurokuna
552:Journalism
533:PaulPachad
315:See also:
1802:talk page
1778:Aaron Liu
1739:The Anome
1710:WP:BEFORE
1693:The Anome
1566:Aaron Liu
1548:Kiwichris
1529:Oaktree b
1459:Oaktree b
1443:(she/her)
1433:Oaktree b
1419:Oaktree b
1254:somewhere
1094:warranted
980:Nonsense
902:Oaktree b
887:(she/her)
862:WP:SIGCOV
847:(she/her)
822:and also
760:(she/her)
688:(she/her)
634:Aaron Liu
569:Spiderone
500:Aaron Liu
470:Aaron Liu
439:(she/her)
329:Oaktree b
264:(she/her)
233:(she/her)
37:talk page
1804:or in a
1679:contribs
1667:unsigned
1587:unsigned
1480:unsigned
1398:John2510
1329:redirect
1250:WP:CRIME
1246:WP:BLP1E
1182:extended
1118:Tim Pool
1062:contribs
1050:unsigned
1026:WP:BLP1E
797:JSwift49
780:Cortador
754:WP:CRIME
750:WP:BLP1E
560:Internet
528:John2510
485:John2510
455:John2510
408:class.'"
363:John2510
343:John2510
308:", and "
155:View log
96:glossary
39:or in a
1760:Valjean
1722:Bearian
1513:Comment
1242:Comment
1080:WP:PERP
583:Sal2100
562:, and
322:Comment
198:WP refs
186:scholar
128:protect
123:history
73:New to
1714:WP:HEY
1621:WP:AGF
1366:, and
1258:WP:BLP
1221:WP:AGF
1171:tl;dr:
1165:and b)
1125:et al.
1054:BeMeek
662:SWinxy
564:Canada
395:Chen."
170:Google
132:delete
1743:Isi96
1580:Merge
1415:Merge
1325:merge
1280:Keep:
1106:WP:RS
793:Keep
619:Nfitz
601:Andre
258:Crime
254:Women
213:JSTOR
174:books
149:views
141:watch
137:links
52:. ⇌
16:<
1783:talk
1764:talk
1756:Keep
1747:talk
1737:per
1735:Keep
1726:talk
1712:and
1708:per
1706:Keep
1697:talk
1689:Keep
1675:talk
1644:talk
1629:talk
1611:talk
1595:talk
1571:talk
1561:Keep
1552:talk
1544:Keep
1533:talk
1503:talk
1488:talk
1463:talk
1448:talk
1431:Hi,
1423:talk
1402:talk
1388:talk
1370:,
1368:here
1364:here
1361:here
1266:talk
1248:and
1229:talk
1203:talk
1194:that
1173:"If
1101:her.
1058:talk
1043:Keep
1034:talk
1030:3iz5
1014:Keep
1005:talk
997:Keep
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970:talk
953:talk
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930:Xofg
906:talk
892:talk
875:talk
852:talk
835:talk
805:Keep
784:talk
776:Keep
765:talk
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712:talk
704:Keep
693:talk
674:The
666:talk
656:and
650:Keep
639:talk
623:talk
596:Keep
587:talk
579:Keep
537:talk
524:Keep
505:talk
489:talk
475:talk
459:talk
444:talk
367:talk
358:Keep
347:talk
333:talk
304:", "
290:talk
269:talk
256:and
238:talk
206:FENS
180:news
145:logs
119:talk
115:edit
50:keep
1086:or
220:TWL
153:– (
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606:🚐
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