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488:. The few respectable looking sources are either being used to support general information on the prison that has nothing to do with the so-called "legends", or being wildly misconstrued. For example, several of the actual legitimate sources may speak of the prison feeling "haunted" or "sinister" in a metaphorical sense, but it is clear from the context of the actual source that that they are not talking about literal ghosts, which this article intentionally misinterprets to support these "legend" claims. In some cases, the cited sources appear to be outright lies, as the source they are using does not even mention the information that the article claims it does. While the topic of legends regarding the iconic location 274:. Moreover, I think that it is not possible to write a proper encyclopedic article on this topic. Superficially, there is a lot of sourcing, but the book references are pretty much all unusable trash. Omitting WWN, the newspaper references are soft-news puff pieces, many of them published in October (i.e., in the lead-up to Halloween), or book reviews of the kind of trashy books being used as sourcing. Per 267:(!!), and the bibliography is full of such academic tomes as "Ghost Hunting: How to Investigate the Paranormal", "Hell House: And Other True Hauntings from Around the World", etc.; a sentence in the lead about Native American legends is sourced to something titled "Famous Ghosts and Haunted Places". The reality-based content is limited, pushed to the margins, and intentionally framed to minimize its impact. 454:
independent reliable sources with which to construct an encyclopedic article. The most that could be confirmed to be notable by reliable independent sources is that some people believe Alcatraz is haunted. And that could be accomplished by a line or two at the main
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nonsense." The plural of anecdote, as they say, is not data; the fact that if you scour the bottom of the intellectual bucket roughly enough, bits of crud will rise to the surface, does not mean that the bits of crud piled together will make an actual topic.
282:, these sources should all be excluded from any measure of notability in the encyclopedic sense. And at the end that leaves nothing. Probably the content could be trimmed down to one paragraph, to be included in the article 82: 223: 430: 450:"padding" about gruesome deaths, insanity, mistreatment of prisoners, etc. (and Mark Twain's quote that he found the island gloomy and cold falls into this category) -- I doubt if there are enough 77: 363: 323: 217: 343: 176: 183: 303: 108: 123: 544:. I concur, however, with JBL that a couple of paragraphs should be redirected and included in the main article's section dealing with this stuff.--- 149: 144: 153: 136: 553: 532: 509: 468: 407: 375: 355: 335: 315: 295: 61: 446:
belief that ghosts exist, can be detected by psychics and ghost hunter gadgets, and the sensational "silly season" stuff, plus all the
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independent sources to justify a stand alone article. Once you strip out all the sources (e.g. paranormal themed books) pushing the
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but cannot be said to constitute an actual topic. This doesn't even fall under the category of, "We know it's nonsense, but it's
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page, this particular article should not be kept, merged, or preserved in any way, as it fails the most basic tests of
40: 199: 384:- No evidence that there is an actual subject matter here; just little bits of poorly-sourced crap which relate to 497: 195: 275: 255: 140: 371: 351: 331: 311: 291: 245: 527: 132: 67: 566: 426: 36: 464: 402: 57: 549: 505: 231: 541: 477: 443: 279: 258: 367: 347: 327: 307: 287: 211: 485: 451: 439: 518: 492:
actually be a legitimate topic that could be discussed somewhere, perhaps as part of the main
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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per nom. I fully agree that Alcatraz haunting legends are notable. But there are not enough
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publications, tourist-trap style travel guides, tabloids (as noted by the nom, the
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A pleasure to support Orange Mike, a craftsman of the delete discussion. -
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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is cited multiple times as if it were a reliable source), and
476:- Per nom. The article is a mess of "information" sourced to 83:
Articles for deletion/Legends of Alcatraz (2nd nomination)
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At a minimum, the current article content calls for
244: 43:). No further edits should be made to this page. 573:). No further edits should be made to this page. 362:Note: This discussion has been included in the 342:Note: This discussion has been included in the 322:Note: This discussion has been included in the 302:Note: This discussion has been included in the 364:list of California-related deletion discussions 324:list of Paranormal-related deletion discussions 344:list of Mythology-related deletion discussions 261:content: there are multiple citations of the 8: 124:Help, my article got nominated for deletion! 361: 341: 321: 304:list of Crime-related deletion discussions 301: 78:Articles for deletion/Legends of Alcatraz 75: 18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 7: 74: 24: 109:Introduction to deletion process 1: 494:Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary 284:Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary 99:(AfD)? Read these primers! 590: 554:20:56, 23 June 2020 (UTC) 533:11:41, 21 June 2020 (UTC) 510:01:17, 21 June 2020 (UTC) 469:17:37, 20 June 2020 (UTC) 431:15:52, 20 June 2020 (UTC) 408:15:19, 20 June 2020 (UTC) 376:15:03, 20 June 2020 (UTC) 356:15:03, 20 June 2020 (UTC) 336:15:03, 20 June 2020 (UTC) 316:15:03, 20 June 2020 (UTC) 296:15:03, 20 June 2020 (UTC) 62:01:57, 28 June 2020 (UTC) 563:Please do not modify it. 286:, and redirected there. 32:Please do not modify it. 73:AfDs for this article: 97:Articles for deletion 133:Legends of Alcatraz 68:Legends of Alcatraz 524: 500:in its content. 482:Weekly World News 378: 358: 338: 318: 264:Weekly World News 114:Guide to deletion 104:How to contribute 581: 522: 498:WP:VERIFIABILITY 405: 399: 249: 248: 234: 186: 174: 156: 94: 34: 589: 588: 584: 583: 582: 580: 579: 578: 577: 571:deletion review 403: 397: 254:The article is 191: 182: 147: 131: 128: 91: 88: 71: 48:The result was 41:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 587: 585: 576: 575: 557: 556: 535: 523:the elfin dog 512: 471: 433: 411: 410: 379: 359: 339: 319: 276:WP:SENSATIONAL 256:WP:SENSATIONAL 252: 251: 188: 127: 126: 121: 111: 106: 89: 87: 86: 85: 80: 72: 70: 65: 46: 45: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 586: 574: 572: 568: 564: 559: 558: 555: 551: 547: 543: 539: 536: 534: 531: 530: 526: 521: 516: 513: 511: 507: 503: 499: 495: 491: 487: 483: 479: 475: 472: 470: 466: 462: 458: 453: 449: 445: 441: 437: 434: 432: 428: 424: 420: 416: 413: 412: 409: 406: 400: 393: 392: 387: 383: 382:Strong delete 380: 377: 373: 369: 365: 360: 357: 353: 349: 345: 340: 337: 333: 329: 325: 320: 317: 313: 309: 305: 300: 299: 298: 297: 293: 289: 285: 281: 277: 273: 268: 266: 265: 260: 257: 247: 243: 240: 237: 233: 229: 225: 222: 219: 216: 213: 210: 207: 204: 201: 197: 194: 193:Find sources: 189: 185: 181: 178: 172: 168: 164: 160: 155: 151: 146: 142: 138: 134: 130: 129: 125: 122: 119: 115: 112: 110: 107: 105: 102: 101: 100: 98: 93: 84: 81: 79: 76: 69: 66: 64: 63: 59: 55: 51: 44: 42: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 562: 560: 537: 528: 519: 514: 489: 473: 435: 417:per nom and 414: 390: 389: 381: 269: 262: 253: 241: 235: 227: 220: 214: 208: 202: 192: 179: 90: 49: 47: 31: 28: 459:article. - 398:Orange Mike 218:free images 461:LuckyLouie 423:XOR'easter 419:Orangemike 54:Malcolmxl5 567:talk page 542:WP:FRINGE 502:Rorshacma 478:WP:FRINGE 444:WP:FRINGE 280:WP:FRINGE 259:WP:FRINGE 37:talk page 569:or in a 486:WP:SYNTH 457:Alcatraz 452:WP:FRIND 440:WP:FRIND 386:Alcatraz 177:View log 118:glossary 39:or in a 391:notable 224:WP refs 212:scholar 150:protect 145:history 95:New to 546:Darius 538:Delete 515:Delete 474:Delete 436:Delete 415:Delete 272:WP:TNT 196:Google 154:delete 50:delete 490:might 448:WP:OR 239:JSTOR 200:books 184:Stats 171:views 163:watch 159:links 16:< 550:talk 540:per 529:wooF 520:Roxy 506:talk 465:talk 427:talk 404:Talk 372:talk 352:talk 332:talk 312:talk 292:talk 278:and 232:FENS 206:news 167:logs 141:talk 137:edit 58:talk 368:JBL 348:JBL 328:JBL 308:JBL 288:JBL 246:TWL 175:– ( 552:) 508:) 467:) 429:) 401:| 395:-- 374:) 366:. 354:) 346:. 334:) 326:. 314:) 306:. 294:) 226:) 169:| 165:| 161:| 157:| 152:| 148:| 143:| 139:| 60:) 52:. 548:( 525:. 504:( 463:( 425:( 370:( 350:( 330:( 310:( 290:( 250:) 242:· 236:· 228:· 221:· 215:· 209:· 203:· 198:( 190:( 187:) 180:· 173:) 135:( 120:) 116:( 56:(

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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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Malcolmxl5
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01:57, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
Legends of Alcatraz
Articles for deletion/Legends of Alcatraz
Articles for deletion/Legends of Alcatraz (2nd nomination)

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