631:. McAll just has two sentences about the subject so not SigCov. We need at least two instances of significant coverage in reliable, independent sources and at this point we don't have anything. The only source we have for her ever having been US no. 1 is Olympedia, the bios of which are of indifferent reliability (cf. the previous case of them getting a date of death wrong), and even if it is true nothing allows us to assess how notable having been US female no. 1 in archery really is - certainly no-one seems to have thought that it was all that notable otherwise they would have written about it. AmericanArcheryAcademy.com is not an independent source as the subject works there. Similarly the AP story is effectively an interview and as such not independent of the subject.
977:, only a small proportion is based on interview/discussion to support, and in the case of the latter, the majority discussed the subject's events and achievements by the writer. Subjects wouldn't be written about, or have the opportunity to be interviewed or otherwise covered in mainstream media if they hadn't by that point gained some degree of notability. These are multiple articles, over a wide enough timeframe, by different organisations and different article authors, all writing about this individual.
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example is very notable as there are many chess players in that country, a very active competition scene, and significant coverage of chess players. If you could provide an argument for why being the #1 female archer in the US is a strong indication of notability then inclusion would make sense. Just throwing rankings at us when we are not fans or active followers of archery doesn't allow us to interpret that information in a way that is helpful for the AfD debate.
1176:: I guess it's important not to conflate the idea of an "interview" with an independent publication that uses aspects of an interview to support (or compliment) some of the material. An out-and-out interview, where the article is solely based on questions and answers is one thing, but that is not what we have here. I don't know if I can elaborate much beyond my response to BilledMammal above as my points there still stand. Even
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I added a couple more sources and re-arranged some things. The GNG source coverage is very clearly there to provide SIGCOV. Looks like the
NewspaperArchive is rather inferior to the sources available in Newspapers.com (though the former does often have smaller local papers not found in the latter).
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I find the concerns with subject interviews to be kind of troubling; most every news article is built from interviews, synthesized by the reporter doing the writing. Q&A articles where the interview is printed with minimal synthesis and editing contain the same information, just in a different
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sources), now with the added difficulty of their inherent non-neutrality, it would overall be a bad idea. An encyclopedia (which is what
Knowledge (XXG) is, or at least is supposed to be) is usually based on secondary sources independent of their subjects (like academic reports or serious books or
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I offered are written by journalists independent of the subject (who are credited with authoring the respective articles) and published by newspapers or news outlets that are not associated with the subject. I do not see anything in the guidelines that prevents us using such sources that have been
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Those rankings stand-alone do not imply notability. Would a multi-time
Cricket champ in Mexico be notable? Or the #1 chess player in Andorra? If there have been 1,000 top 10 players in the history of curling do all of them have notability? My point is that if those achievements are not enough for
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Point is I am not making a "what about x" argument in favor of deletion (or redirection, which is probably best), but rather arguing that as the achievements you mentioned have no context at all, there is no way to know what implied notability they carry. Being the #1 chess player in the US for
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is not an independent reliable source. I say on my website that I am the six time Trans-ScottFinland
International Paper Airplane Champion of the World, but that doesn't mean it's reliable, or independent. We don't use the websites of companies subjects work for to a) establish notability or b)
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sports rankings are not "well-known and significant award or honor" nor (as demonstrated by the lack of SIGCOV) has
Langston "made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in a specific field", so I fail to see what aspect of ANYBIO she satisfies.
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Oppose redirect as a
Lindsay "Pop" Langston was a member of the Chicago Doo-Wop band the Foster Brothers and people are just as likely to be looking for them as they are for this person, since that band would also possibly pass our notability guide based on these sources
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Many of these are articles that use quotes from the subject but are independent coverage. There is a difference between using quotes in an article or report and a question-answer, question-answer printed interview which usually has less editorial oversight. Best,
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The information is still voluntarily provided (or intentionally selected, depending on how you want to portray it) by the subject which poses NPOV issues. And given interviews require careful editor judgement (like other
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that appears to consist entirely of either interviews or brief mentions. It would be great to be pointed to even one source that is not an interview with the subject or their family, or a brief mention.
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we do not have the significant coverage to justify an article. Being top ranked in some area is not in and of itself a sign of notability unless we have significant source coverage of this fact.
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The mcall link has two sentences on her, it's a general article on the
American team and archery events at the Olympics in general. Wouldn't be significant coverage. (I used VPN to access it).
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1153:- Could any of the keep !voters please identify which source they believe gives the subject significant, independent coverage and why? Otherwise we're just having to deal with a
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written with support of interviews with the subject, or someone associated with the subject. I feel it may be clutching at straws to suggest that interviews don't count as
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882:, since it seems a bit off to me. I understand that the information would be primary sourced, but journalists, I assume, aren't picking non-notable people to interview.
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Apologies for the pings, Lugnuts, I can see how that can get annoying! I tend not to watchlist many articles so I have the tendency to ping a lot (see my signature lol).
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I have found sig cov as per my !vote below and expanded the article. I'd be interested in your analysis of these sources with regards to determination of notability.
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808:- All four of the additional sources noted by Bungle are interviews with her/her father. Interviews with the subject/her father are not independent of the subject.
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and at mcall.com/news with a story titled "MEDAL PROSPECTS BRIGHT FOR OLYMPIC SHOOTERS". Sadly, this link is blocked for viewing in the UK. Boo! At worst,
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states she was a
Multiple Time U.S. National Champion and Former Top 10 World Ranked Women Archer (along with being a former #1 in the US), so would meet
1188:, not all sources in an article need to be there to demonstrate notability, but many can support other facts that are otherwise not covered elsewhere.
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does state that interviews shouldn't be relied on to establish notability. That is, however, only an essay, and I agree that the articles are not
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519:. We're not talking about cricket in Mexico or Chess in Andorra. Please stop pinging me too, I'll see the replies on my watchlist. Thanks.
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Either way, the subject appears to meet notability standards with secondary source coverage about
Langston across multiple years.
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USA Archery only seems to keep records of national championships online since 2011. It might be worthwhile to ask them directly.
1180:(which is an essay, not a policy), acknowledges that commentary in these cases can count as a secondary source. I already noted
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Mainly to show appreciation for Bungle's work in demonstrating this individual's notability with the addition of many sources.
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Since I last visited this page, the article has been expanded somewhat significantly by Bungle with a plethora of sources.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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interviews with zero independent editorial value? If we take two articles, say
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Mccall link archived version (for those who can't access and dont have VPN):
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issue with sourcing articles primarily to non-independent sources, and a
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we still do not have the level of sourcing to actually show notability.
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Being #1 ranked in the US, multi-time US champ, top 10 in the world...
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and would suggest that you'd need to explain further if you disagree.
1184:, which has perhaps only around 10% of quotation. With regards to
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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I've been thinking about starting a discussion about that at
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Bungle's sources seem to prove significant coverage as per
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passes GNG with the significant coverage found by Bungle.
1136:. 10+ refs that are coverage from reliable sources. Best,
732:) from historic newspaper sources, of which several are
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issue with sourcing articles primarily to interviews.
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1092:We're also not going to allow you to !vote twice.
993:, per great expansion work by Bungle. Meets GNG.
476:I offer Paper Airplane coaching services for 200
336:United States at the 1996 Summer Olympics#Archery
257:list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1279:). No further edits should be made to this page.
577:Note: This discussion has been included in the
293:Note: This discussion has been included in the
274:Note: This discussion has been included in the
255:Note: This discussion has been included in the
318:states she was the #1 ranked archer in the US.
443:Do you have sources on the championships won?
579:list of Olympics-related deletion discussions
8:
1250:form. (Entirely IMO as a working reporter.)
1030:. Deletion can't be justified in this case.
110:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
295:list of Sports-related deletion discussions
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276:list of Women-related deletion discussions
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1245:Nice work on the expansion and sourcing.
394:https://ghostarchive.org/archive/U1U7n
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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736:, including numerous coverage from
606:. Well, Except those url stated by
474:source awards and accomplishments.
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1111:Sorry, I missed my vote up above.
236:Non-notable results in Olympics (
326:. A quick search finds coverage
95:Introduction to deletion process
880:Knowledge (XXG) talk:Notability
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939:is not met. There is also an
742:, the largest newspaper in
85:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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847:Knowledge (XXG):Interviews
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1269:Please do not modify it.
457:I've listed them above.
32:Please do not modify it.
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826:: All four of the
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945:WP:PRIMARY
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744:New Mexico
58:Sandstein
1273:talk page
933:WP:SIGCOV
833:WP:SIGCOV
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480:per hour.
348:WP:R#KEEP
324:WP:ANYBIO
37:talk page
1275:or in a
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912:contribs
828:examples
352:WP:CHEAP
332:redirect
163:View log
104:glossary
39:or in a
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604:Comment
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206:WP refs
194:scholar
136:protect
131:history
81:New to
1256:(arf!)
1191:Bungle
1134:WP:HEY
1095:Bungle
1068:Delete
1014:Silver
980:Bungle
937:WP:GNG
929:Delete
851:solely
838:Bungle
778:WP:GNG
765:Bungle
730:WP:HEY
681:Delete
668:Bungle
625:Delete
584:Joseph
517:WP:OSE
397:Rlink2
374:Joseph
340:WP:ATD
338:, per
178:Google
140:delete
1210:GPL93
1174:FOARP
1160:FOARP
1138:GPL93
1019:seren
824:FOARP
810:FOARP
774:Keep.
661:FOARP
646:FOARP
221:JSTOR
182:books
157:views
149:watch
145:links
16:<
1247:Keep
1237:talk
1229:Keep
1214:talk
1164:talk
1142:talk
1132:per
1130:Keep
1117:talk
1077:talk
1055:Paul
1045:Keep
1036:talk
1028:Keep
1008:Keep
999:talk
991:Keep
975:this
973:and
971:this
953:talk
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888:talk
814:talk
760:this
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650:talk
644:).
616:talk
594:talk
589:2302
487:talk
471:This
449:talk
401:talk
384:talk
379:2302
350:and
328:here
320:This
314:Her
312:Keep
214:FENS
188:news
153:logs
127:talk
123:edit
50:keep
1032:Deb
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792:::
712:::
334:to
316:bio
228:TWL
161:– (
1239:)
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224:·
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