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I have not edited your post. I simply used the correct mechanism to sign some of mine that I forgot. Since you have been caught out trying to use a false objection, namely that LK was employed by the
History Channel during the time she was featured, you have started adding pedantic, whiny, comments
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She has been featured in dozens of TV programmes over multiple series over several years years. These have been seen by millions of people in many countries around the world. These series are securely archived on published DVD's and the information in the article can be abstracted from these. It is
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If you provide a credible source for that I'll consider it (but it must be a credible source that shows they were the people who employed her to do that for which she is being claimed noteworthy - you can't disclaim noteworthiness on the basis that someone later happens to employ someone they have
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Please understand again, there's no attempt to 'wikilawyer' anything here . . . your argument fails the notability guidelines for wikipedia on 4/5 points. I've been trying to find other articles online to demonstrate some notability, but the one mini article from fox news that mentions her in
230:. The resulting discussion resulted in a closure of no consensus. Examining the keep arguments, however, they look to be largely unacceptable, including gems like "I wanna marry her" or that she has an IMDb. None of the keep arguments previously expressed make up for the issues with sourcing.
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previously featured as something other than an employee). At the moment, as far as I am aware, she was simply a person who was featured on several series of TV programmes. Her employer, as far as it is relevant to the reason for her notaability, was the trucking companies for whom she drove.
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This whole debate is entirely irrelevant. The sole matter at issue is whether Kelly merits her own article, and who employs her has nothing to do with this whatsoever. The
History Channel self-evidently isn't a third-party source when reporting on matters concerning its own program content.
535:- If she is as notable as people are implying then find some independent references and add them to the article. Newspapers, books, etc. would all work and I would change my merge to a keep. However, to date no references that aren't self published or IRT promo stuff have been provided.--
873:. Her notability arises from being featured on several series of programmes. If we were to use the logic you seem to be using: that anyone featured by some media operation - newspaper, magazine, tv producer, magazine publisher, etc, becomes an employee of that operation then
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to further understand why people do not agree that Lisa Kelly's personal website and facebook account valid sources in this case. Since you seem confused as to why the DVDs produced by L. Kelly's employer and her own website/facebook account are not sufficient to establish
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639:. . . by your logic every cast member of every TV series released on DVD is then notable. I'm far from a deletionist here on wikipedia, but this reasoning seems a tad over-inclusive, don't you think? You might want to also check out
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If featuring someone or something means that you are no longer a secondary source with respect to that thing then you can never have a secondary source. Hence your assertion is absurd. The point is that THC
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contract rather than a standard contract that allows the company to use material involving the subject. It appears that the subject is employed by the trucking company who are paying them by the load.
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beyond ridiculous that someone so well known to so many people would fail inclusion tests when minor musicians or sportsmen can be included on the basis of some insignificant article in a local paper.
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Ooops. OK, I forgot to add all the tildes. Mea culpa. But anyone with the slightest intelligence could immediately see who put them there. But keep on wiki-lawyering as it seems to keep you happy.
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is syndicated worldwide and, as the only female trucker, Lisa Kelly certainly stands out for more attentions than most. It wasn't difficult to find several items of news coverage, particularly
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Why bother? If people insist on wiki-lawyering on the basis that someone as relatively well known as LK must have citations that are not self-published then they must accept the rules. There
1235:- In light of the sources that Sionk has found (and have been added to the article) I've changed my merge to keep. The article is still leaning pretty heavily on primary sources though.--
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Comment - I think you are the one who is confused. And your confusion seems to so serious enough that it entirely explains why the wall of text above is not relevant. The
History Channel
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Your argument would hold more weight if we could provide some of the independent material that you have said exists out there. I've only been able to find the following pseudo-story:
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as there are no reliable sources that are independent of the subject that address the subject directly in detail (her employer, the
History network is not independent of the subject.
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as she has been heavily featured in three seasons of Ice Road
Truckers and two seasons of IRT: Deadliest Roads. Definitely notable as a trucker, reality star, and motocross racer.
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been published on DVD. These series are editorially independent of the subject and so, unless there is a policy that a DVD is not a published source, notability is met.
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768:, "for notability purposes, should be secondary sources, as those provide the most objective evidence of notability" - there are no secondary sources in this article.
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in google news searches. Do you know of other sources that we can use to help to indicate notability (beyond that of the IRT TV show website and her own blog)?--
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898:. A+E Networks pays Ms. Kelly's salary by paying the production company for her work on the series. According to wikipedia, A+E networks also owns the
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passing (that I posted above) is all I've been able to find that's independent. In light of that, I don't see how you can argue to keep the article.--
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Please understand that despite your best efforts to show the article fails various WP's, you yourself have failed because, again: The
History Channel
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As a further aside, it's not good etiquette to add unsigned comments in the middle of blocks of text written by other users. You might want to give
734:"Availability of secondary sources covering the subject is a good test for notability". There are no secondary sources, just Kelly and her employer.
223:"Per WP:BIO (especially WP:BASIC and WP:ANYBIO): notability not established; relies largely on 2 primary sources, including a self-published source"
1181:- there appear to be insufficient independent reliable sources to establish any notability for Kelly beyond her participation in the TV programs.
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As I said, I'm not interested in wikilawyering. My argument is that the information can be extracted from five TV series that
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would be notable because the very act of focusing on them would remove the focuser from the realm of 'secondary source'.
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635:- I'm not entirely sure how attempting to establish notability is 'wikilawyering'. Besides pretty clearly violating
1262:. Significant coverage exists in multiple reliable sources, such as the ones posted above by Sionk and another one
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nor is it from secondary sources. The only references in the article are from her employer or her blog/website. --
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television series, now this show is very famous in India. She has also appeared as a guest on the talk show
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who air the show. Why don't you consider the person who pays Ms. Kelly to star in a show her employer?--
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
806:, as all sources are from Kelly's website, or her employer, there are no independent sources.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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1290:. per Gongshow: the coverage exists. It just needs to be included in the article.
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PRL42 - Please refrain from further editing of my posts as you have done here
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indicates that the IRT drivers sign contracts with the
History Channel.--
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998:. Please also refrain from further personal insults in this debate.--
460:- As an FYI Ramesh, you are only supposed to indicate your preference
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This article was previously nominated for deletion with the argument:
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secondary sources. Lisa Kelly is not employed by the
History Channel.
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rider. She has appeared and been credited in two television series.
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Articles for deletion/Lisa Kelly (Ice Road
Trucker) (2nd nomination)
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about things that are completely unrelated to the subject at hand.
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles_for_deletion/Lisa_Kelly_(Ice_Road_Trucker)
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Articles for deletion/Lisa Kelly (Ice Road
Trucker)
814:Lisa Kelly is not employed by the History Channel.
742:Lisa Kelly is not employed by the History Channel.
708:Lisa Kelly is not employed by the History Channel.
674:Lisa Kelly is not employed by the History Channel.
266:Lisa Kelly is a notable person and she is a state
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1321:). No further edits should be made to this page.
330:list of Television-related deletion discussions
8:
350:Note: This debate has been included in the
328:Note: This debate has been included in the
56:have established that the subject meets the
352:list of People-related deletion discussions
727:The article fails the criteria defined in
426:. All real news sources that I can find (
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1076:Please provide evidence that this is an
378:Please don't delete the article she is
894:and off-shoot shows are distributed by
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58:notability guidelines for biographies
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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306:}} tag from the article thank you.
300:Internet Move Database - Lisa Kelly
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439:, coverage that does exist is not
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1045:The first sentence of this link
298:. She also has a entry on the
296:Late Show with David Letterman
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453:15:23, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
107:Lisa Kelly (Ice Road Trucker)
82:Lisa Kelly (Ice Road Trucker)
871:IS NOT LISA KELLY'S EMPLOYER
862:IS NOT LISA KELLY'S EMPLOYER
804:- Independent of the subject
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799:The article does not meet
441:independent of the subject
402:duplicate !vote struck --
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1310:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
698:- Significant Coverage
87:AfDs for this article:
302:, So please remove {{
437:Significant coverage
276:IRT: Deadliest Roads
1122:a secondary source
404:Boing! said Zebedee
268:freestyle motocross
761:The article fails
693:The article fails
52:. It appears that
48:The result was
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1202:Ice Road Truckers
1179:Ice Road Truckers
949:a read through.--
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292:History TV18
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235:(let's chat)
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644:notability:
445:Stvfetterly
246:Merge into
184:free images
1078:employment
270:champion,
1315:talk page
1276:Gongshow
1208:but also
766:- Sources
358:• Gene93k
336:• Gene93k
272:motocross
37:talk page
1317:or in a
1214:this one
1210:this one
1206:this one
637:WP:BLP1E
151:View log
39:or in a
1292:Jarkeld
1251:(Edits)
1233:Comment
1064:(Edits)
1014:(Edits)
965:(Edits)
918:(Edits)
850:(Edits)
633:Comment
604:(Edits)
551:(Edits)
533:Comment
480:(Edits)
458:Comment
190:WP refs
178:scholar
124:protect
119:history
1268:WP:GNG
1124:wrt LK
875:no one
802:WP:GNG
776:There
764:WP:GNG
730:WP:GNG
696:WP:GNG
641:WP:NPF
434:WP:GNG
288:(Link)
282:, and
280:(link)
244:Delete
232:Yaksar
162:Google
128:delete
72:(talk)
1218:Sionk
1177:with
1175:Merge
1128:PRL42
1082:PRL42
1029:PRL42
979:PRL42
947:WP:EQ
929:PRL42
879:PRL42
817:PRL42
783:PRL42
745:PRL42
711:PRL42
677:PRL42
620:PRL42
573:PRL42
522:Talk
516:Tavix
496:PRL42
491:Keep.
422:into
264:Keep.
205:JSTOR
166:books
145:views
137:watch
133:links
16:<
1296:talk
1288:Keep
1264:here
1260:Keep
1246:erly
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