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events of this and that you then created this article and added to these sources your interpretation of them of what they contain, so i.e it becomes a wp:fork of you trying to get the information into the article through another away. Adding some of these sources to the
Further Reading section would just be the source itself without additional explanations as you have done here with some of them like about Yochalas (why does a reader need to know he can speak Arvanitika? Article is about Souliotes, not him. Otherwise every academic's multilingual skills in relation to Souliotes need to be cited. Another one. Why do we have to know about Hobhouse and his travels. Alongside the ref all one needs is pp ... on Souli and pp... Souliotes. The reader can then chase it up themselves. Also having a separate list does not work as not much has been written on the Souliotes. I am familiar with the sources and scholarship and what you have included in your list is more or less whats out there with another 2-3 travellers. Something like the subject on King Arthur has a corpus of litreture produced back centuries and still going on into the modern era, hence a separate article. With this topic the case does not stack up.
840:, i agree, its just that the editor who created this article never bothered to add these to the Further Reading section of the Souliotes article. Not once. The creation of this article was done when a whole host of edits based on these sources which are wp:primary were unsuccessful in the body of the main article (see my comments above). This list of primary sources can be added without all the extra side interpretations, otherwise its wp:or of wp:primary through a different route. The case in this instance for a stand alone article does not suffice. My suggestion would be a copy and past via merge of most of the list into the Further Reading section and then a deletion of this article as its a wp:fork. Best.
244:. It is a mere collection of 18th and 19th century travelers' accounts on the tribe of Souliotes. Almost all of the said sources are totally unreliable due to not having any academic value. After a discussion on the talk page of the Souliotes article, the community consensus was to not use 18th and 19th century sources that are not supported by modern scholarship. After that, the author created this article in a gross breach of
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article already mentions most of the sources in this list and/or their authors, citing later secondary sources which we do consider to be reliable, so this article seems rather superfluous. But that does not make the listed sources worthless - they are, in fact, precisely the works that originally
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brought the
Suliotes to the attention of the rest of Europe and thus first established their notability, even if we now generally prefer to rely on secondary sources that have compared and evaluated these primary sources from a more critical distance rather than trying to interpret them directly.
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ok i'll explain. You added content to the article using many of these sources. Those additions were reverted for being wp:primary etc and as it went into wp:or. You never suggested anything for an addition to the
Further Reading section (which has existed for some time now). Then after all those
435:. In addition to the pretty severe issues already listed, there is also a question of notability. Does anyone except for a few Greek nationalists actually care what people who nowadays would be considered quite ignorant wrote about a mostly irrelevant and remote tribe over a century ago? No. --
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are irrelevant here. The entries of a list are not "sources", but a series of items that are or were notable for some reason. In this case, everyone of the entries is notable for 2 reasons: (a) it refers to a subject (Souliotes) which is notable, and (b) every entry is a notable source about
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644:. May I remind everybody the rule that in discussion like this, not "votes" but arguments count. Therefore, repeating the same and the same, or just posting "delete" (like former Tzeronymo did) is pointless. Initially i insisted adding these sources in the article
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The above users confuse the lists with the articles. A list of books is a list, and doesn't mean that the entries of the list are scientifically reliable or anything. There are plenty of book lists in WP, and none includes only "reliable" entries. See e.g.
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But @Skylax your editing on the article was not to expand the further reading section (you made absolutely no attempt to expand it and to see how that would have went) but to add content to the body that was wp:primary. Its why for me this article is a
462:. I don't understand the rationale of the latter post. If Souliotes are notable and have article, so are the books about them. Or, if there are lots of books about them, they are notable. Finally, if someone browses the history and the talk page
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Its quite clear on what grounds editors have outlined their reasons for deletion. And @Skylax please sign off on your comments, otherwise the discussion can become difficult to follow without knowing which comment belongs to a
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Souliotes, either because it is accepted as credibe or because is dismissed as non credible. For example, a search with "Perraivos + Souliotes" in books.google gives about 1.000 hits, many of them contemporary academic works.--
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776:Ξ don't understand. If you propose that this list can be in the article, yes it can. You may add it there, as well. But if you don't want there "primary", this doesn't mean that they should vanish from the whole wikiproject.--
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861:. I'm thinking of value to a reader. While Knowledge does have lists, some of dubious value, I don't ever see someone typing this in as a search term. Any valid references here should be in the
408:, separating it apart from what actual modern scholarship says is... very hard to justify, and you haven't done one iota of justification for your page created to circumvent a consensus.--
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because I thought that that is the proper place. If they cannot be in an article, does not mean that they cannot be in a list just because some understand it as a "fork".--
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Are you saying that you want the deletion purely on policy concerns?--
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List of 18th β early 19th century sources on Souli and
Souliotes
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List of 18th β early 19th century sources on Souli and
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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663:Whew, spicy, but he actually cited policy....--
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