245:, i.e. there being no reliable source which covered the explicit topic on a worldwide basis, only stats for each country individually which had been collected together. I see no obvious evidence in the sources here to suggest this article should remain when placed under the same scrutiny. 'Comparable country' is actually interesting to me and I'm sure to many others, but it appears to fall under
458:, I am not seeing this here either. It seems to me like this is a clearly defined topic (and not a weird cross-categorization as outlined in NLIST). It is not really a stretch of the imagination to ask what the largest subdivision of a country is, and I'm not aware of any policy or guideline saying that any putative list article writer
486:. Per OR: "This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources." I could no doubt compile an equally well-documented list of redheaded road racing cyclists by number of victories too. It's the synthesis of a ranking that is the problem.
453:
does not make sense to me, for reasons explained above: this information is all publicly available, there's no kind of secrecy about it, and you can find it quite easily. I don't understand what the "original research" here is supposed to be -- it's not like we got this information by editors looking
249:
unless refs can be produced stating 'did you know X is as big as Y', preferably for all of these but individually if necessary. But then I'm sure there are sources stating 'did you you know X has a bigger population than Y', but it didn't save that article from deletion. I fail to see why one should
608:
You claim the ranking of these places by area is objective fact that needs no sourcing, but it's not that simple. For example the
Republic of China (i.e. Taiwan) views mainland China as an occupied subdivision of itself. We can't leave it to wiki editors to decide what isn't a subdivision, but must
428:
If "complete sets of these data can be found anywhere online" it should be easy to cite one or more sources that on their own provide a complete list, which can then be sorted by area and compared with this article to verify it. Then it wouldn't be OR, because we could cite a single source showing
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smaller than 3 million square kilometers. So it would have to be in one of the seven countries larger than that. It does not seem conceivable to me that some global conspiracy would be capable of concealing the existence of a secret 3 million square kilometer province in Russia, Canada, China, the
787:
We need more lists comparing these significant country subdivisions, not less. This article is one of the most basic lists for comparing country subdivisions. Of course we should keep it. Not only should we keep it, we should also revive the population list. I don't know whether we have a list
347:
There is no present consensus for how to assess the notability of more complex and cross-categorization lists (such as "Lists of X of Y") or what other criteria may justify the notability of stand-alone lists, although non-encyclopedic cross-categorizations are touched upon in
Knowledge:What
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I don't think that's what "original research" means. The administrative subdivisions of all countries are a matter of public record, and complete sets of these data can be found anywhere online. There is a finite space to search from, but even disregarding that, we can use common sense:
202:
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sources for this stuff. The size of a country and its subdivisions is not a matter of opinion: yes, it's possible that they are counting the fjords differently in Norway and
Greenland, but nobody says it's "original research" for our article on
454:
at Alaska from an airplane and holding a ruler against the window. The area figures of the provinces in question are documented to reliable sources in their respective articles, and these references would be trivial to add to this list. As for
545:, "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source," and by conclusion, I mean that a ranking like this has any significant worth. Show us such a ranking in the wild, so that
682:
Populations are measured by a variety of methods, which can vary wildly between jurisdictions and go out of date quickly. If I recall correctly, this was a major point raised in the other deletion discussion, which does not apply here.
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There are too many lists comparing countries in
Knowledge. People often forget the fact that some country subdivisions are larger, more populous, and have a higher GDP than a lot of countries in the world. For example,
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survive but not the other. If this article is deemed suitable to remain, I suggest the decision to delete the
Populations article is revisited as the topics and sources which would support them are so closely related.
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591:. Rather than encyclopedic subjects themselves, lists are navigational aids to assist readers in correlating large amounts of information from data that would otherwise be abstruse and difficult to traverse.
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there are no missing areas from our list. Otherwise though, it is OR, because we're relying on editors to work out which are the top 50 areas - that's literally original research.----
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before he was an astronaut: we can use one source that says he was a Boy Scout in the 1940s, and another source that says he became an astronaut in the 1960s. This is not what
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comparing the GDP of significant country subdivisions. If we haven't, we should create one. These three lists are so fundamental that there is no reason not to have them.
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Except this list is of valid interest, whereas that one is clearly just silly. If you think this list is OR for that reason, then I assume you will go on to nominate
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As for the sources, since we are only listing the most significant ones, the relevant figures have all been well sourced in each country subdivision's own article.
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is more populous than
Bangladesh, the world's eighth most populous country; and China has eight provinces whose GDP are Top 20 in the world if they were countries.
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567:; "Greenland is larger than Alaska" is not a "conclusion", it is an objective fact derived from ordinary subtraction (one of the explicit exemptions per
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Also, every argument made in favor of keeping "by population" applies equally well to "by area". So why should we keep one and not the other?
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is bigger than
Argentina, the world's eighth largest country; Western Australia is larger than Algeria, the world's tenth largest country;
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Lists that fulfill recognized informational, navigation, or development purposes often are kept regardless of any demonstrated notability.
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for that matter, are both valuable information sources (8000 pageviews this month, so it seems like some of our readers agree).
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per nom for NLIST and OR. Canada is big, and most of our provinces and territories are too. Same with Russia and
Australia. So?
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refer to one or more third-party lists where the absence of subdivisions not included in our article can be verified.----
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an astronaut" (without sourcing). There is no such subjectivity, or claim of causality, in the list under discussion.
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to say how big it is. I do not see a huge issue with disputed areas, either -- your example of Taiwan is included in
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unless someone produces an academic paper listing various yearly lists of deaths? I think it would be hard to find a
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The individual stats are not OR. It is, however, OR to combine them all in a ranking, just as it would be to have a
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402:, for example, is #1 on this list and has an area of 3 million square kilometers. Basic logic dictates that, per
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subdivisions, so it becomes a list that users can toggle to rank by area and population on their own.--
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and many, many more similar lists which are just as much OR by your definition as this one is. --
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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382:- there are no sources verifying that these 50 subdivisions are indeed the largest.----
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Ideally yes, but failing that, have one article with all of the information in it.--
737:. So, after the list by population has already been deleted, you want to revive it?
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saying that lists of covered bridges (not covered bridges themselves but rather
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be able to demonstrate that some third party RS has compiled an identical list.
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No, everything needs sourcing -- the reason it isn't an issue is because we
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That's not what original research is. For example, we can freely say that
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There exists no consensus for such an expansive interpretation of
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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and I question the consensus at the AfD you linked. Per NLIST,
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is satisfied. Wasn't one for population, isn't one for area.
353:(emphasis mine) I think it's quite clear that this list, and
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812:. Perfectly encyclopaedic list. Certainly not OR. --
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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116:List of the largest country subdivisions by area
68:List of the largest country subdivisions by area
288:list of Geography-related deletion discussions
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832:List of actors by number of adopted children
107:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
635:List of countries by population growth rate
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854:List of countries and dependencies by area
631:List of countries and dependencies by area
518:we don't need to cite that the sky is blue
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643:List of countries by income equality
639:List of countries by GDP (nominal)
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92:Introduction to deletion process
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
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645:, et cetera without problem.
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82:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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