802:. This really needs a lot of work. I'm familiar with the concept with looking at gay neighborhoods. They generally have a starting point and a list article would be more helpful to explain, was it also a business hub, cultural center or purely residential? A basic list of just the neighborhoods with no further explanation isn't very helpful. Like most list articles it need a proper lede explaining a bit
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below the threshold it's out - it's someone else's neighborhood then - rather than some subjective inclusion criteria like someone's opinion that there are lots of
African Americans there. ("lots of" is meaningless and likely based on some racist thinking). Whether the rewrite comes from the existing article or from scratch is not a big deal to me, but it does need to be re-written.
615:: "Generally, an African American neighborhood is one where the majority of the people who live there are African American". A majority is 50%+1. So you dispute that this is what is attempted to be listed in the article under discussion? That's fair, and that's why this article and its list is arbitrary and should be deleted as such. Thanks for clarifying that.
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before they were Afro-American, or Afro-american before becoming hispanic. This geographic separation is a basic feature of american demography. This was not a very well done job, ao far, but its a start. I point out that there are books on almost every one of them, and mutiple news acccounts. There will certainly be no difficulty in sourcing. .
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That they be "old" and "influential?" Those aren't sourcing requirements, they're fluff. Why is an area acceptable or not? What defines "area?" For instance, Henrico County, Virginia, is a county, but
Southern New Jersey is a third of a state, while NY metropolitan area includes massive sections of 2
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How is it
African American if it is no longer majority populated by African Americans? Harlem was once a prominent Jewish neighborhood. Do you still list it as such? Shouldn't there be something of historical importance in these neighborhoods, be it cultural, race riots, civil rights movements, or
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is not a convincing deletion argument. There are many publications about the neighborhoods of a city in papers and books about cities, as well as census data, to confirm what are black neighborhoods. Definition of the terms is an issue: does some small towns black district qualify or not? That is why
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The article can be improved. I started making it so all the neighborhoods were in collapsed menus, the article easier to find your way around now. Added a description to a couple of places, to demonstrate why they were notable. The coloring of the text and background for the menus, as well as the
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and improve. Each of the items should have a brief description of the basis, and of the relevant period. It does need to be defined better than oldest and influential--I think influential for a considerable period of time would be the right criterion. some of those I know were , for example, Jewish
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You're trying to come up with an arbitrary threshold at which a neighbourhood becomes "African
American", i.e. 50%, but we don't create our own definitions on Knowledge, we rely on what reliable sources tell us. So if reliable sources say an area is "African American" it goes in the list. Also, be
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There is no way to tell what belongs on the list or doesn't. How is an "African-American neighborhood" defined at different periods of history? I am definitely leaning to delete. Basically you could include every neighborhood in the United States unless no
African-American person has ever lived
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A list like this might be informative and encyclopedic were it sourced and not subjective; here this article fails both these criteria - which means it needs to be rewritten with sources and remove any subjective criteria - if the neighborhood is 50%+ African
American by population, it's in; once
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whatever? The list should include a list of things that make it notable enough to be on the list. But AFD is not for cleanup, but is suppose to be used as a last resort. Discuss problems on the talk page, and work on it from there. I'm going to go do some work on the article now.
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The requirements are listed at the top of the article. The name should be changed to avoid confusion though. I have added in the reason for several of the entries to exist. If you see any entry that doesn't have any notable historical or cultural influence, then erase it.
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I spotchecked a number of the neighborhoods, and their individual articles or sections in articles about neighborhoods of a city confirmed that they are black neighborhoods. The fear that an article does or might in the future need
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The list is intended to include "the oldest and most influential" African-American neighborhoods, but it has become an unsourced dumping ground for any and every
African-American neighborhood an editor can think of. —
214:. A quick look at the article's edit history would show that I've been trying to do -- aw, why the fuck am I responding to somebody who can't be bothered to type more than a dozen characters? —
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The existence of
African American neighbourhoods is "original research"?! Er, no. If it's POV, we fix that by using reliable sources, not deleting. There's nothing irredeemable here.
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425:. The information is duplicated in other lists that ALSO quote the data source. This list, by contrast, is subject to bias and suffers from ill-defined terms.
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I've been deleting any entry whose article didn't describe it as a historically Black neighborhood, or as having a contemporary
African-American majority. —
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headlines above them, I think could be improved upon. Anyone ever do something like this before on wikipedia? Discuss things on the talk page please.
165:. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out
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If there's a problem with random material being added, why not ask for the page to be semi-protected? Deletion should generally be a last resort.—
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Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Knowledge is a
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442:. Source it, don't delete it. If more than one reliable source calls it an African-American neighborhood, then include it.
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articles are not "finalized" but are the product of ongoing editorial consensus. The list is a useful navigational tool.
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ought to sort that out though, don't you think? If it's been called an
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a list of "the oldest and most influential" African-American neighbourhoods, and it can't be that if it's been deleted.
376:(ec)I agree. Those are subjective measures, and nobody has responded to an eleven-month-old request for sources. —
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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careful - it could be construed that you meant that some Knowledge editors were applying racist thinking.
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A lot of neighborhoods emigrated to the US from Africa? Man, think of the shipping involved. -
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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It needs a better definition than "oldest and most influential", that's way too subjective.
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states and a plurality of the population of a third. This article is unsalvagable.
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summed up exactly what I wanted to say, though. :) I agree the article
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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