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:Articles for deletion/List of Great Old Ones - Knowledge

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So the list is a valid, notable topic for a page. I expect that some of the content on the current page is there because of previous deletion discussions or prods that moved the content to a list page, and I dislike the tendency to merge pages into a list and then nominate the list for deletion. That
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from that main article, and the information here is pretty bare bones compared to the main article. A merge discussion is not needed since, as pointed out by the nom, none of the information currently in this article is actually based on reliable, secondary sources. A Redirect to the main topic is
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So what if two of the sources are fiction? There is a significant amount of data on fiction in all forms, including lists of fictional whatevers all over Knowledge, that have passed notability. And this article has been in force for over a decade, updated regularly, and never had a problem before
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not only are there no independent reliable sources to explain this collection, but there are only two deities that have any sources at all, and they're all primary sources. This overall concept hasn't generated enough third party coverage to support a stand-alone article. I suppose there's a
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if putting this together is not seen as producing to cumbersome a list. I think, however, that this should not be simply redirected, as for some entities here more information is present than at the proposed target. The fact that it is content mostly based on primary sources does not make it
382:: I disagree with Hog Farm's assessment of sources for discussion of the Great Old Ones as a group or set. The Great Old Ones are a major part of Lovecraft's fictional universe, and are discussed in many books. For example: 201: 301: 281: 752:
for the most obvious ones), so this is a perfectly valid list. Additionally, disagree with nom's assertion that the Great Old Ones aren't discussed as a set; if anything, they might
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One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines
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references. But that's not the basis for deletion according to Knowledge guidelines. Did you actually look for third party coverage according to
664:. I don't see why we need two listicles on the some topic, and the proposed target already has an extensive list of those functional beings. -- 597:
the Great Old Ones. There is absolutely no reason to have a second list that just reiterates the same entries as half of the primary list.
551: 496: 723:? Did you read through the above where people have already found such sources? Did you look at the References section of the article? 744:. It's possible that some of the "lesser" deities with shaky sourcing could be trimmed, but there's well-sourced articles here too ( 216: 429:. I think it would be helpful to have a merge discussion on the talk pages, to see how to best consolidate the existing content. — 183: 81: 74: 17: 177: 792: 765: 732: 702: 676: 644: 627:
despite the subject's potential also makes splitting the content out and moving it here, or putting everything into a
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by Gavin Callaghan, McFarland & Co (2013): Chapter 3, "Secrets Behind the Locked Door" - pp 98 & following
236:. Of the sources in the article, Lovecraft and Long are fictional novels. The two websites look unreliable, the 809: 458:, Nathaniel Wingate Peaslee calls the Elder Things "winged, star-headed Old Ones who centred in the Antarctic". ― 40: 223: 586:
Regardless of what you think of the sources, Keeping is inappropriate as this list is a completely redundant
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search turns up a lot of unreliable coverage, although some reliable, secondary coverage is found for
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be discussed as a set, as often the more obscure ones are discussed in relation to the others.
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gives numerous other sources. Have these been looked at and discounted as should have been done
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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of these points towards deletion, so I wonder if this is even the right place to discuss it.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
720: 555: 245: 264:. Without coverage of this as a group or set, I don't see support for a stand-alone list. 784: 587: 517: 366: 253: 233: 628: 620: 598: 547: 522: 459: 430: 399:
An Epicure in the Terrible: A Centennial Anthology of Essays in Honor of H.P. Lovecraft
249: 757: 724: 636: 564: 345: 325: 305: 285: 265: 749: 666: 148: 257: 449: 550:, this is a notable topic. In addition, a search at Google Scholar for e.g. 745: 387:
H. P. Lovecraft's Dark Arcadia: The Satire, Symbology and Contradiction
401:, Fairleigh Dickinson University Press (1991) - pp 249 & following 260:- I've found nothing that indicates that Great Old Ones are discussed 516:, where they are already covered. This is an entirely unnecessary 615:
Sure, we don't want duplication, and merging the content here to
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list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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from other, more notable characters from Lovecraft's work.
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The term "Old Ones" is also used in discussions of the
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list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions
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appears to be a supplement for a role-playing game. A
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I think there is wide-spread agreement that the list
783:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 43:). No further edits should be made to this page. 812:). No further edits should be made to this page. 340:Note: This discussion has been included in the 320:Note: This discussion has been included in the 300:Note: This discussion has been included in the 280:Note: This discussion has been included in the 322:list of Literature-related deletion discussions 619:is one obvious solution. Given the fact that 222: 8: 558:? That said, I am not opposed to a merge to 409:by Darrell Schweitzer, Wildside Press (2012) 102:Help, my article got nominated for deletion! 425:article which overlaps somewhat with this 342:list of Lists-related deletion discussions 339: 319: 299: 279: 481: 667:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 662:Cthulhu_Mythos_deities#Great_Old_Ones 489:Lovecraft, H. P. (August 20, 2009) . 7: 631:article seem possible alternatives. 499:from the original on May 11, 2020. 417:being said, there is currently a " 24: 689:argument to be made as this is a 590:. The majority of the entries at 521:all that is actually necessary. 395:Lovecraft's Artificial Mythology 87:Introduction to deletion process 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 1: 546:. As shown by the sources of 252:. However, this list fails 77:(AfD)? Read these primers! 829: 552:"Great Old Ones" Lovecraft 406:Discovering H.P. Lovecraft 793:05:31, 30 June 2020 (UTC) 766:23:55, 29 June 2020 (UTC) 733:20:31, 29 June 2020 (UTC) 703:18:34, 29 June 2020 (UTC) 677:01:54, 29 June 2020 (UTC) 645:10:45, 24 June 2020 (UTC) 607:14:38, 23 June 2020 (UTC) 573:10:38, 23 June 2020 (UTC) 531:21:23, 22 June 2020 (UTC) 471:18:26, 22 June 2020 (UTC) 439:17:46, 22 June 2020 (UTC) 375:16:52, 22 June 2020 (UTC) 354:16:07, 22 June 2020 (UTC) 334:16:07, 22 June 2020 (UTC) 314:16:07, 22 June 2020 (UTC) 294:16:07, 22 June 2020 (UTC) 274:16:07, 22 June 2020 (UTC) 57:08:33, 30 June 2020 (UTC) 802:Please do not modify it. 397:" by Robert M. Price in 32:Please do not modify it. 419:Table of Great Old Ones 242:Encyclopedia Cthulhiana 240:looks primary, and the 625:Cthulhu Mythos deities 617:Cthulhu Mythos deities 592:Cthulhu Mythos deities 560:Cthulhu Mythos deities 544:Cthulhu Mythos deities 514:Cthulhu Mythos deities 492:The Shadow Out of Time 455:The Shadow Out of Time 427:List of Great Old Ones 423:Cthulhu Mythos deities 111:List of Great Old Ones 63:List of Great Old Ones 495:. Donovan K. Loucks. 75:Articles for deletion 795: 421:" section on the 356: 336: 316: 296: 262:as a group or set 92:Guide to deletion 82:How to contribute 54:Black Kite (talk) 820: 782: 780: 778: 717:in-line citation 673: 623:simply links to 501: 500: 486: 466: 259: 227: 226: 212: 164: 152: 134: 72: 34: 828: 827: 823: 822: 821: 819: 818: 817: 816: 810:deletion review 796: 773: 771: 715:has too little 675: 671: 506: 505: 504: 488: 487: 483: 460: 169: 160: 125: 109: 106: 69: 66: 48:The result was 41:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 826: 824: 815: 814: 781: 770: 769: 768: 738: 737: 736: 735: 706: 705: 691:WP:CONTENTFORK 679: 665: 654: 653: 652: 651: 650: 649: 648: 647: 629:Great Old Ones 621:Great Old Ones 610: 609: 576: 575: 533: 503: 502: 480: 479: 475: 474: 473: 442: 441: 413: 412: 411: 410: 402: 391: 377: 358: 357: 337: 317: 297: 250:Great Old Ones 230: 229: 166: 105: 104: 99: 89: 84: 67: 65: 60: 46: 45: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 825: 813: 811: 807: 803: 798: 797: 794: 790: 786: 779: 776: 767: 763: 759: 755: 751: 747: 743: 740: 739: 734: 730: 726: 722: 718: 714: 710: 709: 708: 707: 704: 700: 696: 695:Shooterwalker 692: 688: 683: 680: 678: 674: 668: 663: 659: 656: 655: 646: 642: 638: 634: 630: 626: 622: 618: 614: 613: 612: 611: 608: 604: 600: 596: 593: 589: 585: 582: 581: 580: 579: 578: 577: 574: 570: 566: 561: 557: 553: 549: 545: 541: 537: 534: 532: 528: 524: 519: 515: 511: 508: 507: 498: 494: 493: 485: 482: 478: 472: 469: 467: 465: 464: 457: 456: 451: 447: 444: 443: 440: 436: 432: 428: 424: 420: 415: 414: 408: 407: 403: 400: 396: 392: 389: 388: 384: 383: 381: 378: 376: 372: 368: 363: 360: 359: 355: 351: 347: 343: 338: 335: 331: 327: 323: 318: 315: 311: 307: 303: 298: 295: 291: 287: 283: 278: 277: 276: 275: 271: 267: 263: 255: 251: 247: 243: 239: 238:Book of Eibon 235: 225: 221: 218: 215: 211: 207: 203: 200: 197: 194: 191: 188: 185: 182: 179: 175: 172: 171:Find sources: 167: 163: 159: 156: 150: 146: 142: 138: 133: 129: 124: 120: 116: 112: 108: 107: 103: 100: 97: 93: 90: 88: 85: 83: 80: 79: 78: 76: 71: 64: 61: 59: 58: 55: 51: 44: 42: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 801: 799: 772: 753: 750:Nyarlathotep 741: 716: 713:as it is now 712: 686: 681: 657: 632: 594: 583: 539: 535: 509: 491: 484: 476: 462: 461: 453: 450:Elder Things 445: 404: 398: 385: 379: 361: 261: 241: 237: 231: 219: 213: 205: 198: 192: 186: 180: 170: 157: 68: 50:no consensus 49: 47: 31: 28: 563:valueless. 196:free images 785:Jack Frost 672:reply here 477:References 367:Timmccloud 806:talk page 721:WP:BEFORE 599:Rorshacma 556:WP:BEFORE 548:Toughpigs 523:Rorshacma 463:Susmuffin 431:Toughpigs 246:WP:BEFORE 37:talk page 808:or in a 775:Relisted 758:SnowFire 725:Daranios 687:redirect 637:Daranios 588:WP:CFORK 565:Daranios 518:WP:CFORK 510:Redirect 497:Archived 346:Hog Farm 326:Hog Farm 306:Hog Farm 286:Hog Farm 266:Hog Farm 254:WP:LISTN 234:WP:LISTN 155:View log 96:glossary 39:or in a 746:Cthulhu 584:Comment 446:Comment 365:this. 202:WP refs 190:scholar 128:protect 123:history 73:New to 754:mostly 682:Delete 232:Fails 174:Google 132:delete 658:Merge 540:merge 452:. In 217:JSTOR 178:books 162:Stats 149:views 141:watch 137:links 16:< 789:talk 762:talk 748:and 742:Keep 729:talk 699:talk 641:talk 633:None 603:talk 569:talk 536:Keep 527:talk 435:talk 380:Keep 371:talk 362:Keep 350:talk 330:talk 310:talk 290:talk 270:talk 210:FENS 184:news 145:logs 119:talk 115:edit 660:to 595:are 542:to 538:or 512:to 224:TWL 153:– ( 791:) 764:) 731:) 701:) 643:) 605:) 571:) 529:) 437:) 373:) 352:) 344:. 332:) 324:. 312:) 304:. 292:) 284:. 272:) 256:- 204:) 147:| 143:| 139:| 135:| 130:| 126:| 121:| 117:| 52:. 787:( 760:( 727:( 697:( 669:| 639:( 601:( 567:( 525:( 433:( 393:" 369:( 348:( 328:( 308:( 288:( 268:( 228:) 220:· 214:· 206:· 199:· 193:· 187:· 181:· 176:( 168:( 165:) 158:· 151:) 113:( 98:) 94:(

Index

Knowledge:Articles for deletion
talk page
deletion review
Black Kite (talk)
08:33, 30 June 2020 (UTC)
List of Great Old Ones

Articles for deletion
How to contribute
Introduction to deletion process
Guide to deletion
glossary
Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
List of Great Old Ones
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