Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair (4th nomination)

5241:- Could you point to where someone is doing this? You have not directed this at anyone, but someone must be doing this in order to make this something other than a straw man. If it's just a general point of wanting to delete something just because the only instance we have is US-specific, I defer to what I wrote above. If there are more sources about one topic than another, we often have a topic on that topic and not the other, even if they're country-specific. We don't create equivalent articles just to keep things even, but we do try our best to do so by finding sufficient sources (again, if those exist, the other articles shouldn't have been deleted, and we don't delete another article just to keep things even). If more people have written about US Presidents with facial hair than have written about leaders of another country, that's not American exceptionalism except insofar that all of Knowledge necessarily reflects the biases of people who publish about such things. As with anything, we defer to what reliable sources say to determine what's important and what's trivial rather than what a small subset of Wikipedians says is important or trivial. If people don't think the sources are sufficient to make it notable, that's fine, but I don't think it's appropriate to say it should be deleted because we only have one on US Presidents. Create one on another head of state if sources exist. I'm sure there are aspects of heads of state in many other nations that there would not be sourcing about in the US, even. Ah well, I'm typing more than I wanted to, again. I find this AfD disappointing, but I'm not actually that attached to this article, so lest I fall into a pit of " 5209:

infrastructures/industries, and will reflect where those industries are biggest/most active. If, on the other hand, this is not about discrepancies in sourcing but specifically about the prime minister lists that were deleted, I cannot comment too much as I was not part of those AfDs and never even saw the articles, so have not had any cause to analyze the sources. If the sourcing was equivalent, then they should not have been deleted, and your issue is not with participants of this AfD but with that one (or with anyone who held them to a different standard -- but that should be called out specifically, not with broad strokes). That they were deleted doesn't mean those !voting to keep are examples of American exceptionalism -- it just means we see this article and evaluated this article in a way you disagree with. —

114:. In this regard, it took a few days before the first !voter (Cunard) provided significant amount of sources to argue in favor of notability. Once sources were provided and the discussion focused more on notability and less on whether this is a trivial topic for inclusion, the consensus shifted notably towards agreeing that facial hair in American politics is a notable encyclopeic topic that received significant coverage in a lot of reliable sources. Only few people argued for deletion afterwards and none of those argued based on the lack of notability of the topic. The only policy-based !vote at this point was a link to 3723:) later, the "Age of the Bankers" began. Woodrow Wilson's election victory in 1912 spelled the end of presidential facial hair; not a single president since has sported a mustache or beard. Part of the transition from hirsute presidents to clean-shaven ones can be explained by changes in technology and fashion. In 1895, the disposable razor blade was invented; in 1901, it was mass-produced; by 1906, hundreds of thousands were bought annually. When the United States entered World War I, the military ordered 3.5 million razors and thirty-six million blades for soldiers. 2990:. We have a huge number of things on notable topics that many people call trivial or silly or useless or whatever but which clearly some people don't think so. Hence why there are sources about those topics (and this one). The debate should only be about the extent to which sources show it's notable. This will be my last reply on the matter, though. I'm far from passionate about this article in particular -- it's just a shame to see it go just because some editors decide it's silly on its face so nevermind the relevant guidelines. — 4947:, which means that readers get zero additional information from having this additional list, (4) that when taken only as a list page, the facial hair characteristic is a trivial one, (5) that consequently, it makes much better sense to treat this subject via a regular (non-list) page, and (6) that once doing that, there is no good reason to restrict the topic only to Presidents. So, in the event that the consensus is not to delete, I strongly recommend that the page be 3566:

during the Civil War, most soldiers had neither the time nor the inclination to shave, and after the war they simply kept their whiskers. By 1870, facial hair had become all the rage. Even Uncle Sam, previously clean shaven, had sprouted a goatee. In a photograph of the Harvard Class of 1870, each and every graduate is sporting a beard, moustache, or some variant. Yale's yearbook even broke down the class by facial hair:

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when I pointed out that I had facial hair but it was going to be gone soon. Everyone has facial hair, even women. It's really nothing special and certainly not anything to create an article about. I haven't read through all the references at the article but I imagine there's a lot of speculation in them as to what effect facial hair had on their presidency as it's not really something that can be scientifically measured.

5074:- I came here expecting to vote delete, because I personally believe that this subject is trivial and useless. However, after looking at the article, I was quite impressed by the number and quality of sources, and the fact that the main topic of many of these sources is in fact the facial hair of US presidents. These sources would seem to demonstrate the notability of the topic. 1194:, and it includes images of each President. Thus, it's a simple matter for an interested reader to look there and readily see which ones have had facial hair. What additional value a reader would derive from the list page discussed here seems negligible to me. A non-list page about facial hair in US politics does seem useful to me, but that's not the page nominated here. -- 2236:". The subject may be worthy of an article (why so few presidents did, how beards are perceived by voters, how attitudes have changed etc.) and the overview at the start of the list could be incorporated into that, but the list format ("beard colour" - really?) is the wrong approach, not least because the subject need not be limited to US presidents alone. 2630:. Notifying the editors who have previously discussed lists of prime ministers with facial hair at AfD is as close to choosing the same topic as you could get. Secondly, regarding the outcomes of those discussions - one closed as delete and the other closed as keep, so there was no hint of favouring one side of the argument or the other. 2232:. Every man has facial hair; sometimes the fashion is to grow a beard, sideburns or other facial adornment, sometimes it is to shave it off. Growing facial hair (or not) is not a defining characteristic of a man and the list is as trivial and useless as "American Presidents who wore flared trousers" or "American presidents who wore a 4959:

expanded to include its history for all US political positions over time (not just successful Presidential candidates), and treated in non-list form. I also believe that such an outcome would be consistent with the discussion so far, in that it would be consistent with all the arguments for deletion,

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Here’s a fun fact for you: Of the 44 men that have been President since Washington’s 1989 inauguration, only a dozen have ever sported a beard, mustache or other face-follicle configuration while in office. Strange, huh? You’d think that voters would like a guy who could grow a good chin coating. But

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If you ever wonder when you’ll see another beard in the White House, the best answer you’ll get is in a book. The era of mustachioed statesmen is long gone, according to Dr. Allan Peterkin, Pognologist (beard scholar — yes, that’s a real thing) and author of One Thousand Mustaches: A Cultural History

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with facial hair", but which were deleted because the existence was contrary to other policies and guidelines. You also need to use a bit of common sense and common sense shows that a list like this should not exist as it serves no useful, encyclopaedic purpose. It's really just a list for list sake.

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If you're replying to a specific editor, it's not a good idea to lump in replies to other editors as well, as it's confusiing. That said, when I said facial hair isn't defining, I wasn't talking about categorisation. I was speaking more generally, as should have been obvious from my original comment

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Saying it's unimportant, silly, trivial, etc. is an opinion that isn't a basis for deletion. We defer to external sources to determine what's important. There are many sources which talk about presidential facial hair, hence regardless of whether editors think it's useful or silly or "cruft," it's a

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stands correct that allowing similar (vs. previous) discussions to be pinged would be opening the process to incredible bias. Which discussions are really similar? How do we spot if all previous discussions have been covered or just a selection thereof? I hope that this is clear from the guidelines.

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because numerous sources have discussed the subject. Such an article would be complementary to this "List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair" article. That another article can be created is not a valid reason for deletion of this one. Content decisions about whether to create a new

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whatsoever. The lengthy citations about presidents with facial hair do not sum up to notability for the article's subject. Multiple articles about a blonde actress or about a bunch of blonde actresses do not amount to notability of the set "blonde actresses." Willing to reconsider my suggestion if

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The presence of some facial hair progresses upward from the beginning of the period, 1840, through the end of the period under study, 1972. American presidents exhibit a similar cycle in facial hair. Not one of the first 15 presidents has either a beard or a mustache. Ten of the next 12 presidents,

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And then there was the small matter of Cleveland's big moustache. The president undoubtedly insisted it be preserved. Even if he bore no visible scars after the operation, the sudden disappearance of his bushy 'stache would arouse intense curiosity. Indeed, at the time, a clean-shaven president was

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Not only do I not appeal to tradition, I'm an iconoclast -- I prefer to break with tradition when possible, all else equal. But I'm not in favor of this quadruple/quintuple jeopardy, especially considering the considerable improvements to the article since its original AfD. I'm changing my !vote to

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More a response to several !votes, of which yours was the most recent. But indeed I did leave out the rest. There's no requirement that it be a defining characteristic -- that's from our guideline for the categorization system, not articles themselves. As with anything, we defer to external sources

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I agree with Tryptofish and to an extent TJRC immediately above. I think this is a notable topic based on the number of reliable sources which discuss it, even if it does seem a bit silly. The list format it takes isn't really discussed by the sources, but it's clearly notable. I don't know what a

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Yet, seemingly as quickly as it had become fashionable, facial hair fell out of favor. Since Taft left office in 1913, no president has had any facial hair, and only two major presidential candidates, Republicans Charles Hughes (1916) and Thomas Dewey (1944, 1948), have had any. (Hughes reportedly

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I was copyediting what I wrote when you replied but felt it important to commit the clarification even after there was an edit conflict to make it clear that the "previous" notifications I first referred to were Cunard's and not DexterPointy's. I should perhaps have let it stand and added a second

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How did facial hair because de rigeur for presidents? In part, the style was borrowed from British aristocrats who, by 1850, regarded shaving as "a most peculiar activity." Beards had come to be regarded as healthy. They were thought to prevent bronchitis, as well as diseases of the throat. Also,

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grew his beard to "save trips to the barber." Dewey wore a pencil-thin moustache that made him look, in the memorable words of one socialite, "like the bridegroom on the wedding cake." Although he was frequently advised to get rid of his 'stache, Dewey refused because he said his wife liked it.")

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In the end, this discussion did not noticeably add new information compared to the four previous discussions and as such a new nomination will have to demonstrate that the topic is non-notable to not be considered disruptive. This discussion has shown that people on both sides are not opposed to

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First of all, the canvassing of editors from other AFDs was problematic and probably should have lead to sanctions against the editor in question if they hadn't been blocked as a sockmaster in the mean time. I do want to remind all participants though that notifying editors from previous AFDs is

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While President Obama may be unique in his lack of ability to grow facial hair, he's certainly not alone in bringing a clean-shaven face to the White House. Surprisingly few presidents have had facial hair. Out of 44 presidents, only nine of them have grown beards and mustaches. These hairy men

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That it has been nominated so many times only indicates that there are many people who don't think the article belongs in an encyclopaedia. Voting keep just because it has been nominated so many times is really not a convincing reason to keep it. I for one am at a loss as to understand how this

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was obviously going to have a non-neutral effect. I make no suggestion it was done in anything but good faith but you can clearly see the pattern of !votes change before and after that was done. Anyway, I think you are wrong in two of your assertions. Firstly, regarding who should be notified -

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there are plenty of sources which discuss the topic of facial hair of US presidents, including things like changes in facial hair over time. This means it's an encyclopedic, notable categorisation. I can see it working as an article instead of a list, but that's not an argument for deleting it.

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is a mystery to me. There is little doubt that the personal appearance of candidates does affect how people vote so my own view is that the mater is not trivial. However, I agree with Hut (below) that it would likely be better if this were presented on WP as a normal article rather than a list.

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The article defines the inclusion criterion as presidents "wore either beards or mustaches during their tenure in office". This is consistent with the sources, which discuss presidents' facial hair during their tenure in office. That facial hair can be reversed is not a policy-based reason for

5223:

Please don't personalize this so much. If it's bad faith, the closing admin will evaluate it accordingly. My reasoning is that facial hair (without the context that is lacking in a list) is a trivial characteristic that should not be given more weight because these were Presidents of the US as

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really, it’s only been twelve guys—there’s even a Knowledge page to prove it. And so, for your viewing pleasure this President's Day weekend, we’ve put together a worst-to-best breakdown of the few, yet glorious, facial hair styles in two hundred-some-odd years of American presidential history.

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could be an encyclopedic page (and not in list form), the page as it exists is an exercise in unencyclopedic trivia, because facial hair is neither defining nor informative in distinguishing one US President from another. Would we also have lists of bald Presidents, or of those with blue eyes?

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At first glance, I as more in line with the keeps thinking there were plenty of sources. However, the more I dug, the more unconvinced I was. Almost all of them really don't contribute to GNG very strongly either not being the direct focus of sources or honestly getting into local newspaper

4795: 1230: 628: 152: 4774:, power has come to be projected through an altered symbolism of personal hygiene. Since 1912, the Oval Office has not been gained by anyone bearing so much as mutton chop, goatee or fu man chu. And it's been 40 years since the either party has even nominated a facially hirsute candidate. 3103:(see below): Thank you, Cunard, for the ping. Although I !voted to delete this article years ago, I think that the repeated nominations weigh heavily against this AfD. There's value to the article, even if it is marginal, and I don't think bringing it here time and again is reasonable. - 2889:- At best this is trivial. Having facial hair is a non-defining characteristic. Right now I have facial hair but shortly it's going to be gone. Regardless of whether or not I have facial hair, I'm the same person. If we're going to have silly articles like this, why not some more, like 5208:

Systemic bias is something to be aware of and to correct whenever possible -- not by throwing our guidelines out the window, not by deleting those articles on US (or NA or EU) articles, but by improving the coverage of other topics. Ultimately Knowledge is based on existing publishing

2956:. Why should this article exist when they don't (and shouldn't). GNG isn't the be all and end all that some think it is. Just because a topic meets GNG doesn't mean that it should exist. There are plenty of deleted articles that pass GNG, including a couple of "List of <foo: --> 2270:- Hut has the correct answer to the mystery: since this matter has been addressed multiple times in published sources of presumed reliability (see footnotes), it is a notable topic under our inclusion rules — whether or not we think this topic is inane trivia, as I personally do. 3622:

Mutton chops, long dundrearies, and other 'burn variants, as well as fine moustaches, are clearly visible in photographs of men from the north and the south. From that moment on (though a brief moment it was), with the notable exception of Andrew Jackson, all presidents until

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says, "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material." Other concerns are that the sources should be discarded because they are local or gossip sources. This is not true for these three book sources for

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Thank you for picking up on what I said about a "History of..." page. However, what I was talking about was not a slight expansion and move. Rather, I was talking about something that would essentially be an entirely different page. And, how exactly is it useful to readers?

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standard to notify people of a tangential list. The fact that it was clearly done based on an assumption of bad faith on Cunard's part is all the worse (the same assumption you are making now). I hope the closing admin (and those who were canvassed) will recognize that. —

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I'd agree that a lot of character articles are useless but they do provide useful, encyclopaedic information about the characters. I note that you did not mention the other parts of my rationale i.e. that having facial hair is not defining or the comparison with, say,

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all wore full, authoritative moustaches. Alas, since Taft all U.S. presidents have goven the clean shaven-route. In Canada, many Canadian leaders followed the trends laid down by their American and British cohorots, including 19th-century prime minister Alexander

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were a valid reason to !vote "delete", my !vote would be delete... because I think the concept is silly. But there's no question that the issue of facial hair for U.S. presidents has been the subject of published material in multiple reliable sources and meets

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Were Presidents fashion trendsetters, or merely trend followers when it came to their facial hair? All of the mustache/beard combinations appeared during one quarter of a century, and all of those with facial hair of any sort were in office during a 52-year

2848:. But is about Congressmen, is from 1896, and in facial hair is one of 59 variables considered in a statistical model for predicting presidential elections, but does not discuss individuals or make any substantive comment on presidents with facial hair. 2117:

Back in 2016 I see I wrote "Even if this doesn't pass the nominator's scrutiny it passes mine. I have a nagging feeling that I might be persuaded by a well-considered nomination but this one falls far short". This nomination is even less satisfactory.

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No partisan notifications has been espoused by my hand. In fact, the pinging I did was not only indiscriminate between keep/delete-votes, but also served to alleviate the systemic bias, which could be perceived by Cunard's ping-scoping to US-only.

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Not surprisingly, American presidents followed the fashion of the day despite its being set abroad. Even Uncle Sam had whiskers added to his clean-shaven face in about 1855. In 1860, apparently at the request of a young girl named Grace Bedell,

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As fate would have it, Lincoln and Garfield were assassinated. But like Taft, Harrison was not re-elected. Hayes chose not to seek a second term. Cleveland lost his re-election bid but returned to the White House four years later, defeating

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ushered in a veritable one-party state. Seven chief executives in a row bore facial hair. And the first smooth-skinner to emerge, William McKinley, was gunned down by an anarchist (read: long-hair), which opened the door to the mustachioed

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This article passes the general notability guideline since multiple book sources as well as newspaper and magazine articles discuss "Presidents of the United States with facial hair" as a set. This article is not excluded under the

4714:, in office from 1909 to 1913. No major party candidate for president has had a beard in recent memory. The last mustache was on the face of Thomas Dewey, defeated by Harry Truman in 1948. Some blamed his lip shrubbery for the loss. 3334:

The last time this was nominated was three years ago. As others have mentioned, consensus can change and then, for those of us who missed the other discussions, this gives us the opportunity to voice our opinion for the first time.

210: 205: 4809:: merely calling it "unencyclopedic trivia" does not make it so, as long as it is substantiated in reliable sources. No policy/guideline says that topics deemed subjectively by Wikipedians to be trivia are inherently non-notable; 214: 122:

creating a more inclusive page that deals with facial hair and its impact on American politics in general and creating such a page and then merging this list to it seems a possible way forward that should be discussed in earnest.

4752:, provided the seminal inspiration: "All the ladies like whiskers and they would tease their husbands to vote for you and then you would be President." Even so, Lincoln wisely waited until after the election to sprout his growth. 5508:– this section says "Knowledge is not a soapbox, a battleground, or a vehicle for propaganda, advertising and showcasing." This article is not a soapboax. This article is not a battleground. This article is not an advertisement. 4053:

The last president to have facial hair took office long before stores started selling disposable razors in the check-out line: William Howard Taft (1909-1913), whose bushy mustache curled up at the ends to give him a walruslike

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This list is not merely an amalgamation of individual factoids. How someone who says "Fails WP:LISTN. List of trivia, not telling us anything important or valuable." can feel well placed to criticise someone else for infringing

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With America choosing another clean-shaven man as president, the gap is only going to get wider. And if we take into account the last president to have a beard, history dates even further back into the 19th century. Republican

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That said, on to this discussion: Numerically speaking, the count is tied at 21 to 21 (discounting sock !votes). Unfortunately, many (experienced) editors tried to justify their !vote without a strong policy-backed rationale:

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The audience must not be selected on the basis of their opinions—for example, if notices are sent to editors who previously supported deleting an article, then identical notices should be sent to those who supported keeping

278: 3074: 2610:(my emphases) - that is, it is only sometimes appropriate, not always; it doesn't specify when it is appropriate, but this clearly indicates it should be done cautiously. On the other hand, it actively encourages what 4789: 4233:

started the trend in 1861, when he entered office as the first president with a beard or mustache—only sideburns had previously appeared in the White House. From 1861 to 1913, nine of eleven US presidents had facial

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Note! I never accused Cunard of anything (my question to Cunard was actually in hope of getting Cunard to do the additional pinging, so that I didn't have to do the work; at worst that makes me lazy, not evil). --

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seem to be notable and encyclopedic is the history of how facial hair has been viewed as part of the political process, (3) that simply as a list, we already have images showing facial hair or the lack thereof at

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The decision to have or not have facial hair is trivial, and con be multiple times reversed in life time. This is also as has been said by others the type of list that needlessly adds to the Amerio=centricism of

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on the basis of "I don't like it", but I recognize that it may not be the consensus here. What concerns me is that: (1) treating it in list form fails to match the page content to what is notable, (2) that what

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I don't see how this belongs on Knowledge. It makes for good trivia but not really informative and doesn't appear to have much cultural impact on whether or not a president has a beard. Also as mentioned before

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versions of what I wrote clearly stated that I believe Cunard acted in good faith. I did not "remove the accusation of of canvassing directed at Cunard"; it was explicitly not there from the outset. Check the

3020:- That's really a cop out and completely wrong. It's not that I don't like the article. As I said, and have tried to explain, it really doesn't have any encyclopaedic value and really falls under trivia. -- 381: 5554:", and "Exhaustive logs of software updates". This article is not a "summary-only description of works". This article is not a "lyrics database". This article is not "Excessive listings of unexplained 4050:

Consider the numbers: Of the 41 men who have served as president, only nine had facial hair. And it may have brought some of them bad luck: two of the four presidents who were assassinated had beards.

3526:, who, after his election in 1860, grew a beard at the suggestion of an eleven-year-old girl. Thereafter, excepting Johnson and McKinley, every president for the next fifty-two years was bewhiskered: 244: 201: 3430:

Many men have tried facial hair at some point in their lives; some have found they preferred the look, others did not. The following Presidents' best-known images include facial hair of some type.

1083:, that the content be rewritten as "Facial Hair in Politics" (to be broad) or "Facial Hair in American Politics" (to be specific), since the article contains "reliable sourced content about the 4293:

revitalized it during his presidency, starting in 1861. From there, it was mustache mania: Of the 12 presidents in office between Lincoln and Taft, all but two wore either a beard or mustache.

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Facial hair might be big among latter-day beardo cults, but you'd be hard-pressed to see a presidential candidate donning even stubble. The last US president to wear facial hair was Ohioan

5205:

But I guess I'll respond to the underlying point, which I do not believe is a good point at all. In what way are those of us !voting to keep examples of disgusting American exceptionalism?

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He was not our most distinguished chief executive, but he was the last to have a beard. Since then, chins and cheeks with hair have been an unacceptable face for presidential politics.

3881:, were the only two chief executives since Harrison to wear facial hair. Roosevelt had a mustache that curved down around the side of his mouth. Taft waxed his mustache to curl upward. 2929:. I think our dozens of lists of Pokemon, wrestlers, Star Wars characters, etc. are entirely useless but these questions aren't up to me -- it's based on what has received coverage. — 1053:

So yes lists can be about nondefining characteristics and that is in fact one of the main reasons for having them in the first place. This standard has no validity whatsoever here.

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In cases where a particular attribute about a topic is verifiable and notable but not defining, or where doubt exists, creation of a list article is often the preferred alternative.

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Facial hair symbolised strength and dominance and was in vogue during and after the American Civil War in the mid-19th century. Until the trend of sporting facial hair set in with

5247:

PS: Though I know you were not really implying that I am disgusting, I'm glad for the reassurance, since a relative used just that word about me recently when I brought over some

2761:- I don't doubt that it has been your experience that pinging participants of previous AfDs for the same article is "standard" but I hope I have opened your eyes to the fact that 5676:

The President Is a Sick Man: Wherein the Supposedly Virtuous Grover Cleveland Survives a Secret Surgery at Sea and Vilifies the Courageous Newspaperman Who Dared Expose the Truth

5200:?? That you agree with one of the points does not make it a good faith !vote and does not provide any indication it has any basis in understanding of our policies and guidelines. 4367:

took her advice, of course, and statues in Westfield depict the brief meeting he had with her four months later while en route to his inauguration as our first bearded president.

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The clean-shaven look for American leaders dates back to the country’s early days. George Washington and the Founding Fathers all had smooth faces, and it wasn’t until 1825 that

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The President Is a Sick Man: Wherein the Supposedly Virtuous Grover Cleveland Survives a Secret Surgery at Sea and Vilifies the Courageous Newspaperman Who Dared Expose the Truth

5023:- Often-discussed topic in reliable sources. Well written intro and presented list. Articles about men's facial hair are numerous on Knowledge, so are presidential topics, it's 299: 2148: 1038: 5633:

Some comments have said that the sources do not directly focus on the subject. Many sources I posted have as their main topic facial hair in presidents. Of those that do not,

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One of our most distinguished presidents, Abraham Lincoln (1861-65), was the first to sport facial hair in office. His beard-without-mustache became a signature look of sorts.

943:, not genuinely encyclopedic content about a notable concept — the question that actually needs to be answered here is not "how deleting this would help our readers", but how 266: 5429:

territory. I'd agree with Tryptofish and others than one could maybe make a case for a main article on politics and facial hair, but not a list of presidents specifically.

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Sigh. Now you're actually canvassing. You have dug up a tangential list because it resulted in deletion in response to someone pinging people who have previously discussed

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a beard.) Further, most of the sources present here are passing references to beardedness in sources about other things, not direct analysis of beardedness as a political

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Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses S. Grant, Rutherford B. Hayes, James A. Garfield, Chester A. Arthur, Grover Cleveland, Benjamin Harrison, Theodore Roosevelt and William H. Taft.

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have beards in the actual portraits being used to illustrate their list entries, which is proof in and of itself that beardedness can change (and that it can even change

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I know I would too. But the simple undisputable fact is that the sources are there. The other ridiculous titles provided by the "delete" !voters are simply examples of

556: 3217:, but also ignoring the deletions of the 3 similar lists (3: Canada, Australia, New Zealand), which all happened much more recently than your delete-vote in 2010. -- 5027:(Washington Post) to discuss Presidents and beards. The article had 2500 views in a single day, recently prior to the AfD. The article is linked to by the Press see 714:

The principle that repeated renomination can be disruptive only applies to cases like somebody who doesn't like the consensus renominating it for another discussion

1546: 1176:. And I share the concern over the giant-economy-size pings, so I also want to underline that consensus can change, so the past AfD results are not binding here. -- 361: 260: 4613:. There were six Ohio presidents between Lincoln and Taft. Five had facial hair and three had the kind of flowing beards that craft-beer hounds would drool over: 2421: 1985: 4467: 5224:

opposed to heads of state of a smaller nation, and I personally am not basing that on any other AfDs. (And I certainly do not think that you are disgusting!) --

2986:

to determine what's important. If you don't think the sources are sufficient to show that it's a notable topic, that's fine, but "common sense" in this case is

2671:

If it isn't – these should be improved. In the meantime, I would like to ask those who have been canvassed not to add opinions. Whatever their position may be!

401: 2471: 1990: 256: 984:. There is no requirement that lists must be about defining characteristics. If there was then a load of clearly encyclopedic lists would have to be deleted. 5119:

I find it extremely disgusting to see American excepionalism running rampant behind a thin veil of sorry wiki excuses for ignoring the purpose of Wikipeida.

4528: 3616:

was convinced that his chances in the upcoming presidential election would be enhanced by his wearing a distinguished beard. He promptly did so and won. ...

3070: 2211:– "not even a close shave. This is at the negligible end of trivial." (This is what I put last time, of which I have no recollection. Thanks for the ping.) 3053:

Question: Was this page linked from some other website recently? It looks like there's a spike in pageviews a couple days before the AfD. Just curious. —

306: 4063:

And Honest Abe's facial hair appeared to spark a trend: Eight of the next 11 presidents wore a beard or a mustache, including Teddy Roosevelt (1901-09).

3934:, left office in 1912, facial hair was out - at least on the national stage. But local politics doesn't always conform to national political fashions. 3304: 1778: 1030: 5502:– this article is not original research because numerous reliable sources have covered the topic and this article is based on those reliable sources. 5396:

As has been mentioned above meeting GNG is usually the minimum requirement to keeping an article, not a requirement to keep an article. We also have

5586:

It meets either the general notability guideline below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific guideline listed in the box on the right; and

4545:

If you follow the over-two-century-old history of the American presidency closely, you will see that the last US president to sport a moustache was

4237:

The following table shows which US presidents had sideburns, beards, and mustaches. If you don’t think sideburns count as facial hair, tell that to

3383:." I will show below that "Presidents of the United States with facial hair" has been treated as a "a group or set by independent reliable sources". 5164:, responses to being blocked for it, and this -- presumably found via Tyw7's contribs. If anyone does rv, feel free to remove this message, too. — 4944: 1191: 5613:

is not a policy-based reason for deletion. If "leaders of with facial hair" has been discussed as a set, then a list would be permissible under

272: 5550:– this section says the following are prohibited: "Summary-only descriptions of works", "Lyrics databases", "Excessive listings of unexplained 4871: 4401: 4204: 3845:

had perhaps the most famous presidential beard, the researchers point out. It differed from the others' because he wore it without a mustache.

3366: 1876: 1666: 1652: 1034: 981: 792:

this is a particularly useful, interesting, well–written, and well–sourced article. Somebody explain how deleting this would help our readers.

4497:

Illustrations of 15 presidents with facial hair by artist John Gordon Gauld are also part of the exhibit. Last president to wear facial hair:

2036:

has a valid point there. You've pinged the participants of the AfD where the results was keep consecutively 3 times. Please see WP:CANVASSING

5160:

revert here, but figured I'd abstain since I've participated in this discussion. This user has 16 edits comprising edit warring with Tyw7 at

1926: 1624: 4805:. Col. Warden has provided multiple sources that demonstrate the notability of the topic. For the most part, the "delete" !votes are simply 4839: 2953: 2894: 2087: 1940: 1496: 2844:

Aside from this being trivial and stupid, I'm struggling to find the RS treating this topic per se. The closest I can come are and from

1045:

and many others. That's four featured lists your standard considers unencyclopedic, and there are plenty of others. If you actually read

5383: 5267:

I think it's time to drop this part of the discussion. It's a lot of words following a comment you were thinking of reverting. Peace. --

2949: 2890: 1540: 1011:

be deleted on that basis, but not a single solitary genuinely encyclopedic list would ever be lost by the application of that standard.

316: 1029:

OK, let's see how that works out. Appearing on a banknote is hardly a defining characteristic of a person, so we'll have to get rid of

3274: 3113: 1694: 1482: 1454: 1300: 907:

adult man is capable of both growing facial hair and shaving it off, so the question of having a beard or not having a beard is not a

5646:

The Presidential Book of Lists: From Most to Least, Elected to Rejected, Worst to Cursed-Fascinating Facts About Our Chief Executives

4549:, a Republican who was in power between 1909 and 1913. None of the 17 presidents who ruled in the next 103 years has had facial hair. 3396:

The Presidential Book of Lists: From Most to Least, Elected to Rejected, Worst to Cursed-Fascinating Facts About Our Chief Executives

5332: 5024: 4680: 4033: 3898: 3811: 1792: 1440: 1342: 2342: 2308:- There's a lot of coverage of this topic, coverage treating them as a group, and a clear inclusion criteria -- hence it's meets 1954: 1412: 1328: 1258: 1146: 4588: 2589:- selecting and notifying groups of people known to have previously voted overall to keep the article as was done previously by 5610: 5565: 5547: 5541: 5535: 5529: 5523: 5517: 5511: 5505: 5499: 5493: 5486: 5482: 5478: 5028: 4659:(1909-1913), with his extravagant handlebar, has padded through the White House garden with visible whiskers (unless you count 1820: 1806: 1750: 1708: 1314: 1286: 1272: 17: 1003:

No, there's not a single "clearly" encylopedic list that would need to be deleted on that basis — there are certainly several

5717: 5687: 5657: 3743: 3675: 3593: 3496: 3407: 2341:- Since this is covered in RS, and is useful to readers. An argument that perhaps the scope should be expanded slightly to 1890: 1862: 1834: 1736: 1638: 1588: 1536: 1426: 1384: 1164:

As a follow-up, I see quite a few editors arguing for keeping based on sourcing that passes GNG. Given the existence also of

674:" As the nomination presents no policy-based argument and doesn't say anything that hasn't been said and refuted repeatedly 91:, "America-centrism" (which is not a reason to delete America-specific articles but to create non-America-specific articles) 5617:. That such coverage may not exist for other countries' leaders does not mean the United States page now should be deleted. 4825:

argument; the difference between those and this article is that this article has significant coverage in reliable sources.

4634: 4883: 4770:

Now, unfortunately, the pendulum has swung as far the other way. With the advent of the safety razor and the departure of

4519:"Donald Trump inauguration: US hasn't seen a president with facial hair for over a century, and there's a reason for that" 1848: 1772: 1680: 1560: 1532: 1398: 1244: 4748:

It remained for the next election to spawn our patron saint of facial hair. Grace Bedell, a savvy 11-year-old adviser to

5322: 4523: 1722: 1574: 3128:

article has value? Knowing what we know from this article, what would the effect of Donald Trump growing a beard be? --

5749: 5455:

someone posts up a List of Presidents of the United States with Toupees. Or the list of Naturally Blonde Actresses. -

4952: 4861:

Since 2010, even more sources have covered the topic of "Presidents of the United States with facial hair" as a group.

3515:

almost unimaginable. There hadn't been one since Andrew Johnson left office in 1869, nearly twenty-five years earlier.

2600:

editors on all "sides" of a debate (e.g., everyone who participated in a previous deletion debate on a given subject)

1370: 4422:

5 o'clock shadow arriving at 3 p.m., there hasn't been presidential facial hair since 1913, following the failure of

4308: 5062: 4879: 2258: 1870: 1660: 1646: 1468: 1356: 4813:

refers to "Trivia" sections in articles and does not apply here. I understand that a lot of people are wondering,

5799: 5748:

article so this one can be merged into the new article are not for AfD to decide. I would not object to having a

5309: 4675: 4671:"Plan to Face the Nation? The Advice Is to Shave First in Washington, Hardly Anyone Wins by a Whisker These Days" 3668: 2926: 1920: 1764: 1618: 683: 669: 47: 2422:

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_New_Zealand_with_facial_hair

1986:

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_New_Zealand_with_facial_hair

5559: 5447: 4834: 2081: 1934: 1768: 1490: 115: 5182:

No, don't do it, anyone. There is actually a valid point about American exceptionalism amid the rest of it. --

3975:

Things may change some day, but until they do, take a nostalgic look at presidential facial hair’s golden age.

3951: 2472:

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Australia_with_facial_hair

2379:- per my 2016 !vote. Beards are and especially were a much discussed (in RSs) aspect of presidential fashion. 1991:

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Australia_with_facial_hair

696:

Most recent AfD result was "Delete", on 31.Jul.2018, for "List of Prime Ministers of Canada with facial hair".

83:, "it's stupid", "consensus can change" (yes, it can but you have to argue why it should, not just state it), 4609:, who had a mustache. Ohio's glorious run of presidents dovetails with the facial-hair era, which began with 5376: 5010: 4223:

and his voluminous mustache were replaced by the clean-shaven Woodrow Wilson in the nation’s highest office.

4028: 2877: 842:

I have the same opinion when somebody says something is useful but then doesn't explain how it is useful. --

468:

Courtesy ping to those who recently participated in AfD:"List of Prime Ministers of Canada with facial hair"

389: 369: 349: 5579: 5434: 5126: 3347: 3270: 3222: 3187: 3140: 3109: 3086: 3032: 2970: 2909: 2807: 2708:

comment, but as you did the same thing yourself straight afterwards, let's not quibble too much. However,

2549: 1999: 1688: 1476: 1448: 1294: 881: 854: 755: 703: 541: 84: 76: 5000:

good move candidate would be, keeping the list inline, but a) this should not be deleted since it passes

1913:

Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair (3rd nomination)

1611:

Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair (2nd nomination)

24:

Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair (5th nomination)

5795: 5770: 5367: 5143: 5058: 4983: 4908: 4852: 4806: 4439:

Benjamin Harrison, James Garfield, Rutherford B. Hayes, Ulysses S. Grant and, of course, Abraham Lincoln

3893: 3736: 3243: 3078: 2824: 2783: 2722: 2635: 2502: 2254: 2241: 2041: 2020: 1866: 1786: 1656: 1642: 1434: 1336: 1218: 833: 819: 797: 776: 588: 409: 106:

The key - and only relevant - question that had to be discussed here was: Is this a notable topic for a

99: 43: 5558:" because it is not about statistics. This article is not about "Exhaustive logs of software updates". 2925:

notable topic and makes for an acceptable list. So many of the delete !votes don't have a basis in the

2054:

DexterPointy does not have a valid point. Cunard pinged people who participated in past discussions of

4979: 3375:, which says, "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed 2779: 2733: 2718: 2631: 2237: 5778: 5744: 5680: 5634: 5614: 5572: 5305: 5272: 5229: 5187: 5138: 5080: 4965: 4875: 4796:

Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of United states presidents with facial hair during their tenure

4199: 3489: 3379:

by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a

3372: 3238: 3016: 2987: 2819: 2518: 2490: 2456: 2452: 2365: 2321: 2091: 2015: 1948: 1916: 1614: 1406: 1402: 1322: 1252: 1231:

Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of United states presidents with facial hair during their tenure

1199: 1181: 1155: 771: 679: 552: 446: 4731: 3701:. Lincoln changed all that, ushering American into the "Golden Age of Facial Hair." From Lincoln to 2486: 2482: 2428: 750:

Delete - Arbitrary unencyclopedic topic, supported only by pseudo-science and fan/fringe fetish. --

5460: 5255: 5211: 5166: 4829: 4826: 4158: 4154: 4015: 3055: 2992: 2931: 2758: 2740: 2695: 2667: 2655: 2616:

editors who have participated in previous discussions on the same topic (or closely related topics)

2586: 2570: 2326: 2288: 2233: 2144: 2077: 2060: 1930: 1814: 1800: 1744: 1702: 1486: 1308: 1280: 1266: 1117: 476: 472: 426: 292: 80: 5602:

policy. There therefore is no policy-based reason for deletion, so the article should be retained.

4579:"The Ohio Presidents: trivia and tidbits on eight Ohioans who made it to the White House (photos)" 4120: 3831:

was the first president to wear facial hair. He had long, curved sideburns, known as muttonchops.

2769:- you are right, carefully selected "related" topics could introduce significant bias. Read on at 5755: 5710: 5451: 5372: 5005: 4888: 4629: 4146: 3586: 3321: 2873: 2590: 2413: 2180: 2095: 1977: 1959: 1895: 1884: 1856: 1828: 1730: 1632: 1593: 1582: 1501: 1420: 1378: 1046: 973: 908: 828:

Speaking of policy, that essay to which you linked isn't a policy and carries no weight with me.

560: 385: 365: 345: 4219:

The last time facial hair graced the face of a US president was March 4, 1913. This was the day

3835:

wore an exaggerated style of side whiskers that framed most of his face. In the same tradition,

5520:– this article is not a blog, web hosting service, social networking service, or memorial site. 4347: 1346: 182:

Articles for deletion/List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair (5th nomination)

176:

Articles for deletion/List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair (4th nomination)

171:

Articles for deletion/List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair (3rd nomination)

166:

Articles for deletion/List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair (2nd nomination)

5714: 5684: 5654: 5650: 5430: 5409: 5351: 5122: 4726: 4178: 4174: 4162: 4150: 4003: 3979: 3802: 3740: 3672: 3590: 3493: 3404: 3400: 3336: 3298: 3265: 3254: 3218: 3208: 3176: 3129: 3104: 3082: 3021: 2959: 2898: 2803: 2770: 2762: 2611: 2595: 2545: 2534: 2510: 2464: 2275: 2157: 2141: 2139: 2123: 2033: 1995: 1842: 1684: 1674: 1554: 1526: 1472: 1444: 1392: 1290: 1238: 1096: 1033:. Not having armed forces isn't a defining characteristic of a country, so we'll have to lose 1016: 960: 903:, so the fact that this was kept in the past is not binding. As I've said in the past, nearly 870: 843: 811: 751: 735: 699: 537: 524: 512: 95: 72: 36:

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.

5794:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's

5704: 5674: 5644: 3730: 3580: 3483: 3394: 2568:

list. One is standard operating procedure for AfD. The other is, well, obvious canvassing. —

42:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's

5759: 5042: 4892: 4848: 4810: 4583: 4253: 4182: 4170: 4142: 4007: 3991: 3987: 3807: 2676: 2400: 2350: 2296: 2099: 2037: 1963: 1899: 1782: 1716: 1597: 1568: 1505: 1430: 1332: 1214: 940: 829: 815: 793: 675: 663: 609: 601: 584: 564: 532: 516: 456: 405: 328: 4258: 153:

Articles for deletion/List of United states presidents with facial hair during their tenure

5774: 5268: 5225: 5183: 5075: 4961: 4396: 4166: 4011: 3983: 3705:, a span of twelve presidents, only Andrew Johnson and William McKinley were clean-shaven. 3380: 2686: 2361: 2309: 2216: 2134:

The topic of presidents' facial hair is discussed in independent reliable sources for the

1944: 1364: 1318: 1248: 1195: 1177: 1151: 580: 508: 484: 131: 111: 5750:

facial hair in American politics#List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair

5518:

Knowledge is not a blog, web hosting service, social networking service, or memorial site

4330:

If you want to split hairs, some presidents have also had prominent sideburns, including

3915:

During the 19th century, it became acceptable for presidents to sport facial hair. Think

2090:). I agree that my pings of editors who participated in the previous AfDs do not violate 5116:

If this is Knowledge, is it the US Knowledge or the global Wikipeida written in English?

4655:

in 1861, beards were popular with presidents for a half-century. But no president since

3946: 3155: 1519:

Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair

678:, it should be dismissed and a moratorium on further frivolous nominations established. 5456: 5426: 5161: 5157: 4921: 4387: 4186: 3999: 3995: 3162: 2854: 2530: 2506: 2478: 2436: 1810: 1796: 1740: 1698: 1462: 1350: 1304: 1276: 1262: 1113: 621:

The nomination failed to list or address the previous nominations. Their results were:

496: 480: 5400:, which helps us keep everything encyclopedic. Supporting this view not IDON'TLIKEIT. 4229:

Taft was the end of a run of great facial hirsuteness in our nation’s highest office.

3770:, have a beard or a mustache or both. And no president since then has had facial hair. 5599: 5590: 5471: 5397: 5363: 5001: 4913: 4856: 4818: 4487:

beard was more famous, but Angela Sergonis' favorite presidential beard belonged to

3317: 2869: 2494: 2440: 2380: 2313: 2287:

per every other article that has every existed on national leaders with facial hair.

2176: 2172: 1880: 1852: 1824: 1758: 1726: 1628: 1578: 1416: 1374: 1165: 1108:

per above discussion, this is non-encyclopedic trivia. And as Enos733 said, the list

900: 520: 107: 88: 1982:

Is there any good reason why you didn't also ping participants from below two AfDs ?

5401: 5343: 5004:

generally and b) it may be presented better in something other than a list format.

3294: 2498: 2392: 2271: 2229: 2196: 2153: 2119: 1838: 1670: 1550: 1522: 1388: 1234: 1131: 1092: 1088: 1056: 1012: 987: 956: 731: 500: 5544:– this article is not about news events. The sources are over a period of decades. 4379:

Chester Alan Arthur, Grover Cleveland, Theodore Roosevelt, and William Howard Taft

3175:

Oh my god! It's a completely different person. Let's write an article about it. --

321:

Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of Prime Ministers of Canada with facial hair

315:

This article is a trivia and there is no need of a separate list. See deletion of

231: 3662: 2778:, which covers that, and it appears clear that DextyPointer has adhered to that. 5514:– this article is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files. 5035: 5031: 3658: 2766: 2672: 2522: 2514: 2432: 2396: 2346: 2292: 1712: 1564: 1043:

List of cricketers called for throwing in top-class cricket matches in Australia

605: 528: 504: 488: 451: 324: 5485:

does not support deletion of this article. I have gone through each section of

4460:"Best beards ever: Morris Museum exhibit explores fuzzy history of facial hair" 4372:

Ulysses S. Grant, Rutherford B. Hayes, James A. Garfield, and Benjamin Harrison

3214: 5555: 5551: 2212: 1360: 161:

Articles for deletion/List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair

126: 2685:

I'll note that Dorsetonian edited his/her comment after I replied to it (see

4917: 4822: 3158: 2849: 2526: 2448: 2444: 1458: 492: 5568:– that Knowledge is not censored does not support deletion of this article. 5532:– this article is not a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal. 4275:

In fact, no president has sported facial hair in more than a century, when

2253:

I am trying to be consistent with my 2016 opinion. It's not just a trivia.

5512:

Knowledge is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files

4701:, an Ohio Republican and president of the United States from 1889 to 1893. 4651:

There was a time when beards were the political mainstream. Starting with

4511:, according to Sergonis, sported "awesome" long sideburns or mutton chops. 4332:

George Washington, John Quincy Adams, Martin Van Buren and Zachary Taylor.

3873:

long, shaggy beard was the last one to be seen among American presidents.

3863:

broke away from the bearded look, favoring long sideburns and a mustache.

3697:, facial hair had been restricted mostly to the over-grown muttonchops of 4343: 2538: 2460: 1754: 672:

to repeatedly nominate a page in the hope of getting a different outcome.

5057:- Facial hair of presidents has been covered often in notable sources.-- 4721: 4670: 4624: 4578: 4518: 4459: 4391: 4339: 4300: 4248: 4194: 4110: 4023: 3941: 3888: 3797: 5239:

should not be given more weight because these were Presidents of the US

3919:, the first president with facial hair, and his large mutton-chops. Or 3867:

wore a stylish mustache that sloped downward and covered his upper lip.

927:

a president's term, making him simultaneously a president with a beard

3436:(1861–65) is the only President to have worn a beard with no mustache. 3075:

Heights of presidents and presidential candidates of the United States

3071:

Effect on voters of the appearance of American presidential candidates

5530:

Knowledge is not a manual, guidebook, textbook, or scientific journal

5248: 4790:

List of United states presidents with facial hair during their tenure

4463: 4301:"No-Shave November 2014: Why don't more presidents have facial hair?" 2345:

is reasonable and valid for RM, but not a good reason for deletion.--

2058:

article, not past discussions of all conceivable related articles. —

400:

Note: This debate has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's

4195:"It's been more than a century since a US president had facial hair" 3664:

Project President: Bad Hair and Botox on the Road to the White House

118:

without an explanation about why this policy applies to this list.

5740:

Regarding creation of a "Facial hair in American politics" article:

5321:-WTF? Common sense and all....Trivia......Bearcat, Tryptofish et al 3849:

was the first president to sport a full beard, and his successor,

4960:

and has not been rejected in any of the arguments for keeping. --

4111:"The Official Power Ranking of American Presidential Facial Hair" 2395:) and the importance of the position, this article is justified. 583:. List of trivia, not telling us anything important or valuable. 5621:

Regarding reversibility of facial hair throughout one's lifetime

5790:

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.

5743:

A "facial hair in American politics" article would comply with

4249:"The Surprising Habit Every President Since 1913 Had in Common" 3542:(moustache-meets-sideburns, a style known as the Franz Josef), 63:

generally only accepted when they were about the same article.

4710:

And it is not just beards. The last mustache was on President

2171:

this topic has been discussed sufficiently in sources to meet

5562:

therefore cannot be used to support deletion of this article.

4286:—who had long sideburns—introduced facial hair to the office. 2648:

to ping participants of past AfDs of the same article. It is

382:

list of United States of America-related deletion discussions

5548:

Knowledge is not an indiscriminate collection of information

4615:

Rutherford B. Hayes, James A. Garfield and Benjamin Harrison

3518:

Except for some outlandish sideburns, such as those worn by

4815:

What does facial hair have anything to do with a president?

4392:"Paul Ryan has a beard. Will he ever win another election?" 4115: 445:: An editor has expressed a concern that editors have been 3732:

A Matter of Taste: How Names, Fashions, and Culture Change

2897:. Really, this is more suited to a silly YouTube video. -- 2691:

removing the accusation of canvassing directed at Cunard)

982:

Category:Presidents of the United States with facial hair

694:

Comment - Consensus can change, and arguably has changed.

5242: 3558:(moustache). Although he grew a beard after his stroke, 2872:

and it has been a few years since it was last reviewed.

2418:

Never mind, I found time to complete the pinging myself.

1087:" I continue to believe that the list itself approaches 194:

List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair

143:

List of Presidents of the United States with facial hair

5538:– this article is not attempting to predict the future. 5496:– this article is not a dictionary entry. It is a list. 4452:, and it doesn't speak well for a man with aspirations. 2714: 2391:– given the interest that has been in the topic (as in 1079:

per Bearcat. I continue to believe, as I stated in the

730:

since the last time the article was considered at AFD.

227: 223: 219: 5706:

One Thousand Beards: A Cultural History of Facial Hair

5113:

Is this a churnalism pop magazine, or is it Knowledge?

4289:

Unfortunately, the whiskered trend didn’t stick until

3853:, also had a full beard, which was longer and bushier. 3713:

Rutherbord B. Hayes, James Garfield, Benjamin Harrison

3582:

One Thousand Beards: A Cultural History of Facial Hair

291: 4697:

The last one seen on Pennsylvania Avenue belonged to

2954:

List of Presidents of the United States with toenails

2895:

List of Presidents of the United States with toenails

5487:

Knowledge:What Knowledge is not#Encyclopedic content

5096:

Lengthy side-discussion growing out of sock comment.

4069:

U.S. presidents who had facial hair while in office:

3889:"To shave, or not to shave? Historically, it varies" 2738:

You're right. My apologies. I misread it. Struck. —

1129:

Per nom and not by the hairs on my chiny-chin-chin.

1039:

Cardinal electors for the papal conclave, March 1605

422:

list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions

1145:. Although I'm pretty sure that something like the 4381:all rate honorable mention for sporting mustaches. 3213:You're not only committing the logical fallacy of 2950:List of Presidents of the United States with blood 2891:List of Presidents of the United States with blood 980:, not lists. Nobody is suggesting the creation of 317:List of Prime Ministers of Canada with facial hair 5745:Knowledge:Notability#General notability guideline 5732:Quotes from these book sources and other sources 5635:Knowledge:Notability#General notability guideline 4876:Knowledge:Notability#General notability guideline 3699:J. Q. Adams, Zachary Taylor, and Martin Van Buren 50:). No further edits should be made to this page. 5802:). No further edits should be made to this page. 5506:Knowledge is not a soapbox or means of promotion 5500:Knowledge is not a publisher of original thought 4722:"In Politics, the Mustache Is the Kiss of Death" 4279:—and his handlebar mustache—left office in 1913. 3778:16 newspaper, magazine, and news website sources 3627:wore beards. In comparing presidential growths, 3293:non notable intersection of charaacteristics. -- 2143:and, so far as I can see from the preview, here. 557:Knowledge:Sockpuppet investigations/DexterPointy 420:Note: This discussion has been included in the 380:Note: This discussion has been included in the 360:Note: This discussion has been included in the 342:list of Politicians-related deletion discussions 340:Note: This discussion has been included in the 4794:The closing admin in the September 2010 AfD at 4571:was the only president to have it in the 1820s. 2614:has done - it specifically says that notifying 1168:, I think it's relevant that GNG means that we 4426:and his handlebar mustache to win re-election. 2845: 2149:WP:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions 362:list of Politics-related deletion discussions 305: 8: 5489:to explain why it does not support deletion: 5025:not a trivial or random thematic combination 4448:Throw in the bushy sideburns of one-termers 3454:(1889–91) all had a full beard and mustache. 4625:"Paul Ryan's Beard Triggers a Style Debate" 2343:History of facial hair in American politics 2316:. That's why we've come to that conclusion 1147:History of facial hair in American politics 5091: 4933:. I said above that I favor deletion, and 4878:, which requires "significant coverage in 4859:are not policy-based reasons for deletion. 3859:wore a beard that was similar to Grant's. 3798:"U.S. Presidents Had Some Hairy Histories" 3781: 3472:(1900–13) all had mustaches but no beards. 3316:Do we have to go through this every year? 419: 399: 379: 359: 339: 102:, "Nom does not convince me", "not again", 3717:Grover Cleveland, TR, William Howard Taft 3522:, no president sported facial hair until 1031:List of people on United States banknotes 947:it would help our readers learn anything 814:but that is not a policy-based argument. 5733: 5362:Odd subject matter, but appears to meet 402:list of content for rescue consideration 4945:List of Presidents of the United States 3426:Presidents Known for Having Facial Hair 1192:List of Presidents of the United States 555:User was blocked for sockpuppetry. See 158: 150: 5615:Knowledge:Notability#Stand-alone lists 5238: 4663:Flintstone-esque five o’clock shadow). 4450:Martin Van Buren and John Quincy Adams 4435:Grover Cleveland and Chester A. Arthur 3520:John Quincy Adams and Martin Van Buren 3373:Knowledge:Notability#Stand-alone lists 3014: 2774: 2619: 2615: 2599: 1085:political implications of facial hair. 1035:List of countries without armed forces 2765:actually suggests caution is needed. 94:Keep !voters: "was kept previously", 7: 4847:I quote this here to emphasize that 4501:. Last president with a full beard: 5030:by National Constitution Center in 4851:does not apply to this article and 722:after the initial closure. It does 149: 5526:– this article is not a directory. 5446:: A typical Knowledge list of the 4340:"Almanac: Abraham Lincoln's beard" 4098:Grover Cleveland, 1885-89; 1893-97 3927:and his big-game-hunting mustache. 2291:. Useless, unencyclopedic trivia. 31: 3942:"A History of West Wing Whiskers" 3940:Whittaker, G. Clay (2013-11-13). 3930:But after Roosevelt's successor, 3639:the bushiest whiskers. Later on, 3562:never appeared in public with it. 5243:someone is wrong on the Internet 4953:Facial hair in American politics 4870:There is sufficient coverage in 4844:♠ 17:19, 23 September 2010 (UTC) 4247:LaBianca, Juliana (2018-02-16). 3365:per the significant coverage in 2598:actually states this: notifying 1172:keep a page rather than that we 1112:appear to be original research. 5536:Knowledge is not a crystal ball 5483:Knowledge:What Knowledge is not 5479:Knowledge:What Knowledge is not 5245:", I will take my leave again. 4299:Rosenfeld, Laura (2014-11-04). 4022:Lee, Christopher (2000-04-03). 3635:sported the longest beard, and 3015:"common sense" in this case is 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 4458:Genovese, Peter (2014-03-01). 3839:wore long, straight sideburns. 869:How exactly is this useful? -- 1: 5589:It is not excluded under the 5494:Knowledge is not a dictionary 5366:and some !votes appear to be 4874:to allow the subject to pass 4623:Williams, Alex (2015-12-16). 4577:Petkovic, John (2015-02-13). 4517:Ghosh, Shubham (2017-01-20). 3887:Hobson, Daniel (2005-04-11). 5542:Knowledge is not a newspaper 5524:Knowledge is not a directory 4867:General notability guideline 4669:Dubin, Murray (1996-10-30). 4524:International Business Times 4346:. 2017-10-15. Archived from 4119:. 2013-02-13. Archived from 4104:William Howard Taft, 1909-13 4083:Rutherford B. Hayes, 1877-81 4024:"Presidential hair a no-no?" 3810:. 1986-08-17. Archived from 3719:), and one giant sideburns ( 3708:The book notes on page 167: 1213:per Bearcat and Tryptofish. 5783:15:56, 11 August 2018 (UTC) 5764:08:37, 11 August 2018 (UTC) 5643:Strock, Ian Randal (2008). 5465:05:35, 11 August 2018 (UTC) 5439:18:13, 10 August 2018 (UTC) 5413:00:25, 10 August 2018 (UTC) 5388:00:12, 10 August 2018 (UTC) 5148:00:05, 10 August 2018 (UTC) 4758:The subsequent election of 4101:Theodore Roosevelt, 1901-09 4066:The article further notes: 3729:Lieberson, Stanley (2000). 3689:The book notes on page 163: 3393:Strock, Ian Randal (2008). 3248:00:09, 10 August 2018 (UTC) 2829:00:08, 10 August 2018 (UTC) 2025:00:07, 10 August 2018 (UTC) 781:00:06, 10 August 2018 (UTC) 569:08:37, 11 August 2018 (UTC) 137:16:03, 11 August 2018 (UTC) 5819: 5481:as a reason for deletion. 5355:23:59, 9 August 2018 (UTC) 5335:11:02, 8 August 2018 (UTC) 5314:21:21, 7 August 2018 (UTC) 5277:22:31, 7 August 2018 (UTC) 5263:22:25, 7 August 2018 (UTC) 5234:22:01, 7 August 2018 (UTC) 5219:21:53, 7 August 2018 (UTC) 5192:21:19, 7 August 2018 (UTC) 5174:20:55, 7 August 2018 (UTC) 5131:19:57, 7 August 2018 (UTC) 5086:10:56, 7 August 2018 (UTC) 5067:05:36, 7 August 2018 (UTC) 5050:03:58, 7 August 2018 (UTC) 5016:00:45, 7 August 2018 (UTC) 4988:22:18, 6 August 2018 (UTC) 4970:21:45, 6 August 2018 (UTC) 4926:21:31, 6 August 2018 (UTC) 4897:03:50, 6 August 2018 (UTC) 4370:Four of his successors -- 4095:Chester A. Arthur, 1881-85 4089:Benjamin Harrison, 1889-93 3923:with his chin curtain. Or 3735:. New Haven, Connecticut: 3631:had the hairiest cabinet, 3354:05:25, 6 August 2018 (UTC) 3326:02:37, 6 August 2018 (UTC) 3309:16:40, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 3280:16:35, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 3227:10:15, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 3194:14:25, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 3167:13:19, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 3147:09:24, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 3119:06:19, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 3091:05:13, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 3063:04:01, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 3039:09:20, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 3000:04:37, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 2977:04:25, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 2939:04:00, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 2916:03:49, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 2882:03:40, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 2860:23:30, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2812:23:21, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2788:23:34, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2748:00:53, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 2727:23:26, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2703:23:02, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2681:22:59, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2663:22:52, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2640:22:49, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2578:22:16, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2554:21:48, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2470:Pinging participants from 2420:Pinging participants from 2405:19:07, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2384:15:38, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2370:17:41, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2355:14:51, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2334:14:33, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2301:14:12, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2280:13:56, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2263:12:31, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2246:11:17, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2221:10:27, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2204:10:05, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2185:09:21, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2162:11:59, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2128:08:42, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2104:03:50, 6 August 2018 (UTC) 2068:17:53, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2046:17:10, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 2004:08:55, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 1968:07:53, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 1904:07:53, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 1602:07:53, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 1510:07:53, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 1223:07:18, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 1204:21:32, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 1186:17:36, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 1160:20:17, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 1138:18:18, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 1122:17:16, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 1101:16:49, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 1064:18:54, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 1021:18:13, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 995:10:05, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 965:14:47, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 919:the list, for example, do 915:of the presidents present 911:characteristic of a man — 888:03:52, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 861:09:29, 5 August 2018 (UTC) 838:17:21, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 824:16:34, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 802:14:41, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 760:11:35, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 740:13:37, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 708:11:44, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 688:10:53, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 614:07:55, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 593:06:39, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 546:12:00, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 461:22:40, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 434:14:43, 4 August 2018 (UTC) 414:15:11, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 394:11:30, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 374:11:30, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 354:11:30, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 333:06:28, 3 August 2018 (UTC) 79:, "men just have beards", 5566:Knowledge is not censored 5370:, which is a bad reason. 5137:Struck content above per 4720:Olin, Dirk (1988-10-31). 4676:The Philadelphia Inquirer 4433:, had a mustache. So did 4080:Ulysses S. Grant, 1869-77 3237:Struck content above per 3077:there too. Also, mention 2927:Knowledge:Deletion policy 2818:Struck content above per 2014:Struck content above per 1537:Brambleberry of RiverClan 1049:you'll find that it says 939:. This simply amounts to 770:Struck content above per 5792:Please do not modify it. 5703:Peterkin, Allan (2001). 5611:WP:OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST 5606:Regarding Americentrism: 5477:Some editors have cited 4955:, with the page subject 4193:Kopf, Dan (2017-02-19). 4077:Abraham Lincoln, 1861-65 3667:. Nashville, Tennessee: 3579:Peterkin, Allan (2001). 39:Please do not modify it. 5673:Algeo, Matthew (2011). 5582:to merit an article if: 4374:-- all had full beards. 4086:James A. Garfield, 1881 4029:The Dallas Morning News 3482:Algeo, Matthew (2011). 812:I like this article too 5596: 4846: 4776: 4716: 4665: 4619: 4573: 4567:, the 16th president, 4557:(1889-93) was the man. 4513: 4454: 4383: 4335: 4295: 4243: 4140: 4106: 4065: 3978:The article discusses 3977: 3936: 3883: 3772: 3725: 3707: 3654: 3575: 3478: 2773:, though, and it says 2320:. Lots of impassioned 148:AfDs for this article: 87:, "common sense" (?), 5629:Regarding the sources 5600:What Knowledge is not 5591:What Knowledge is not 5576: 5452:encyclopaedic purpose 4799: 4746: 4695: 4649: 4603: 4543: 4482: 4416: 4362: 4323: 4273: 4217: 4135: 4067: 4048: 3966: 3913: 3894:The Manhattan Mercury 3826: 3759: 3737:Yale University Press 3709: 3691: 3609: 3512: 3423: 3079:Kennedy Nixon debates 2622:- note: not the same 2604:be appropriate under 5681:Chicago Review Press 5573:Knowledge:Notability 4429:Taft's predecessor, 3715:), three mustaches ( 3490:Chicago Review Press 3464:(1885–89, 1893–97), 2870:Consensus can change 901:Consensus can change 449:to this discussion. 5773:, in my opinion. -- 5251:for them to try. :) 4772:William Howard Taft 4712:William Howard Taft 4657:William Howard Taft 4547:William Howard Taft 4489:Rutherford B. Hayes 4424:William Howard Taft 4277:William Howard Taft 4221:William Howard Taft 4216:The article notes: 4159:William Howard Taft 4155:Rutherford B. Hayes 4046:The article notes: 4016:William Howard Taft 3877:and his successor, 3871:Benjamin Harrison's 3768:William Howard Taft 3703:William Howard Taft 3633:Rutherford B. Hayes 3444:Rutherford B. Hayes 3371:The subject passes 2668:User:Rhododendrites 2644:You're wrong. It's 2318:three times already 1769:White Arabian Filly 1007:lists that clearly 726:apply if it's been 5711:Arsenal Pulp Press 5156:Was about to do a 4951:to something like 4801:The result was 4788:The AfD close for 4744:The article notes: 4693:The article notes: 4647:The article notes: 4630:The New York Times 4601:The article notes: 4541:The article notes: 4480:The article notes: 4414:The article notes: 4360:The article notes: 4321:The article notes: 4271:The article notes: 4147:Theodore Roosevelt 4141:The article lists 4133:The article notes: 3964:The article notes: 3925:Theodore Roosevelt 3911:The article notes: 3875:Theodore Roosevelt 3824:The article notes: 3645:Theodore Roosevelt 3587:Arsenal Pulp Press 3466:Theodore Roosevelt 5560:WP:INDISCRIMINATE 5448:haphazard variety 5306:John Pack Lambert 5296: 5295: 5252: 5108: 4782: 4781: 4727:Los Angeles Times 4699:Benjamin Harrison 4569:John Quincy Adams 4555:Benjamin Harrison 4509:John Quincy Adams 4503:Benjamin Harrison 4485:Abraham Lincoln's 4284:John Quincy Adams 4239:John Quincy Adams 4179:John Quincy Adams 4175:Chester A. Arthur 4163:James A. Garfield 4151:Benjamin Harrison 4092:M U S T A C H E S 4004:Benjamin Harrison 3980:John Quincy Adams 3829:John Quincy Adams 3803:The Wichita Eagle 3637:Chester A. Arthur 3625:Benjamin Harrison 3554:(moustache), and 3458:Chester A. Arthur 3452:Benjamin Harrison 3448:James A. Garfield 3377:as a group or set 3307: 3278: 3230: 3117: 2815: 2557: 2324:going on here. — 2007: 1190:I just looked at 763: 711: 602:User: Accesscrawl 553:Striking comment. 463: 450: 436: 416: 396: 376: 356: 116:WP:INDISCRIMINATE 22:(Redirected from 5810: 5729: 5727: 5726: 5699: 5697: 5696: 5669: 5667: 5666: 5575:guideline says: 5571:The lead of the 5386: 5342:per Tryptofish. 5330: 5325: 5260: 5258: 5246: 5216: 5214: 5171: 5169: 5146: 5104: 5092: 5083: 5078: 5059:Shivertimbers433 5047: 5040: 5013: 4886:of the subject". 4880:reliable sources 4872:reliable sources 4842: 4837: 4832: 4742: 4740: 4739: 4730:. Archived from 4691: 4689: 4688: 4679:. Archived from 4645: 4643: 4642: 4633:. Archived from 4599: 4597: 4596: 4587:. Archived from 4584:The Plain Dealer 4539: 4537: 4536: 4527:. Archived from 4478: 4476: 4475: 4466:. Archived from 4412: 4410: 4409: 4400:. Archived from 4358: 4356: 4355: 4319: 4317: 4316: 4307:. Archived from 4269: 4267: 4266: 4257:. Archived from 4215: 4213: 4212: 4203:. Archived from 4183:Martin Van Buren 4171:Grover Cleveland 4143:Ulysses S. Grant 4131: 4129: 4128: 4044: 4042: 4041: 4032:. Archived from 4008:Grover Cleveland 3992:Rutherford Hayes 3988:Ulysses S. Grant 3962: 3960: 3959: 3950:. Archived from 3917:Martin Van Buren 3909: 3907: 3906: 3897:. Archived from 3865:Grover Cleveland 3851:Rutherford Hayes 3833:Martin Van Buren 3822: 3820: 3819: 3808:Associated Press 3782: 3757:The book notes: 3755: 3753: 3752: 3687: 3685: 3684: 3671:. pp. 163, 167. 3641:Grover Cleveland 3629:Ulysses S. Grant 3605: 3603: 3602: 3508: 3506: 3505: 3462:Grover Cleveland 3440:Ulysses S. Grant 3419: 3417: 3416: 3381:stand-alone list 3367:reliable sources 3343: 3340: 3302: 3268: 3258: 3246: 3212: 3204: 3183: 3180: 3136: 3133: 3107: 3060: 3058: 3028: 3025: 2997: 2995: 2966: 2963: 2936: 2934: 2905: 2902: 2827: 2796: 2745: 2743: 2737: 2700: 2698: 2660: 2658: 2575: 2573: 2542: 2503:AlphaBetaGamma01 2468: 2417: 2409: 2331: 2329: 2255:Arthistorian1977 2199: 2065: 2063: 2023: 1981: 1973: 1867:Shivertimbers433 1657:Northamerica1000 1643:Arthistorian1977 1134: 1059: 1037:. Similarly for 990: 877: 874: 850: 847: 779: 748: 692: 536: 454: 440: 431: 429: 310: 309: 295: 247: 235: 217: 108:stand-alone list 71:Delete !voters: 41: 27: 5818: 5817: 5813: 5812: 5811: 5809: 5808: 5807: 5806: 5800:deletion review 5724: 5722: 5720: 5702: 5694: 5692: 5690: 5672: 5664: 5662: 5660: 5642: 5450:, without any 5380: 5371: 5326: 5323: 5297: 5256: 5254: 5212: 5210: 5167: 5165: 5142: 5097: 5081: 5076: 5043: 5036: 5009: 4840: 4835: 4830: 4783: 4765:Teddy Roosevelt 4750:Abraham Lincoln 4737: 4735: 4719: 4686: 4684: 4668: 4661:Richard Nixon’s 4653:Abraham Lincoln 4640: 4638: 4622: 4611:Abraham Lincoln 4607:William H. Taft 4594: 4592: 4576: 4565:Abraham Lincoln 4534: 4532: 4516: 4473: 4471: 4457: 4431:Teddy Roosevelt 4420:Richard Nixon's 4407: 4405: 4397:Chicago Tribune 4388:Rosenthal, Phil 4386: 4353: 4351: 4338: 4314: 4312: 4298: 4291:Abraham Lincoln 4264: 4262: 4254:Reader's Digest 4246: 4241:’ mutton chops. 4231:Abraham Lincoln 4210: 4208: 4192: 4167:Abraham Lincoln 4126: 4124: 4109: 4039: 4037: 4021: 4012:Teddy Roosevelt 3984:Abraham Lincoln 3957: 3955: 3939: 3904: 3902: 3886: 3843:Abraham Lincoln 3817: 3815: 3796: 3787: 3764:Abraham Lincoln 3750: 3748: 3746: 3728: 3682: 3680: 3678: 3657: 3614:Abraham Lincoln 3607:The book notes: 3600: 3598: 3596: 3578: 3524:Abraham Lincoln 3510:The book notes: 3503: 3501: 3499: 3481: 3470:William H. Taft 3468:(1901–09), and 3434:Abraham Lincoln 3421:The book notes: 3414: 3412: 3410: 3392: 3350: 3341: 3338: 3252: 3242: 3206: 3190: 3181: 3178: 3143: 3134: 3131: 3056: 3054: 3035: 3026: 3023: 2993: 2991: 2973: 2964: 2961: 2932: 2930: 2912: 2903: 2900: 2823: 2741: 2739: 2731: 2696: 2694: 2656: 2654: 2571: 2569: 2519:Johnpacklambert 2491:Andrew Davidson 2476: 2457:DerbyCountyinNZ 2453:Johnpacklambert 2426: 2411: 2327: 2325: 2197: 2061: 2059: 2019: 1975: 1917:LinguistAtLarge 1615:Johnpacklambert 1132: 1081:2016 discussion 1057: 988: 884: 875: 872: 857: 848: 845: 775: 664:deletion policy 470: 427: 425: 252: 243: 208: 192: 189: 187: 184: 146: 85:WP:ITSNOTUSEFUL 77:WP:WEDONTNEEDIT 55:The result was 48:deletion review 37: 29: 28: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 5816: 5814: 5805: 5804: 5786: 5785: 5771:WP:Fillibuster 5767: 5738: 5737: 5731: 5730: 5718: 5700: 5688: 5670: 5658: 5632: 5631: 5627: 5626: 5619: 5618: 5609: 5608: 5604: 5603: 5595: 5594: 5587: 5570: 5569: 5563: 5545: 5539: 5533: 5527: 5521: 5515: 5509: 5503: 5497: 5467: 5441: 5418: 5417: 5416: 5415: 5391: 5390: 5378: 5368:WP:IDONTLIKEIT 5357: 5337: 5316: 5294: 5293: 5292: 5291: 5290: 5289: 5288: 5287: 5286: 5285: 5284: 5283: 5282: 5281: 5280: 5279: 5257:Rhododendrites 5213:Rhododendrites 5206: 5202: 5201: 5195: 5194: 5177: 5176: 5168:Rhododendrites 5162:brownie points 5153: 5152: 5151: 5150: 5120: 5117: 5114: 5110: 5109: 5099: 5098: 5095: 5090: 5089: 5088: 5069: 5052: 5018: 4993: 4992: 4991: 4990: 4978:I agree 100%. 4973: 4972: 4928: 4909:WP:IDONTLIKEIT 4901: 4900: 4865: 4864: 4853:WP:IDONTLIKEIT 4807:WP:IDONTLIKEIT 4786: 4785: 4780: 4779: 4778: 4777: 4717: 4666: 4620: 4574: 4514: 4455: 4390:(2015-12-03). 4384: 4336: 4296: 4244: 4190: 4187:Zachary Taylor 4107: 4094: 4093: 4091: 4090: 4071: 4070: 4019: 4000:Chester Arthur 3996:James Garfield 3937: 3884: 3861:Chester Arthur 3857:James Garfield 3837:Zachary Taylor 3793: 3792: 3789: 3788: 3785: 3780: 3776: 3775: 3774: 3773: 3744: 3726: 3721:Chester Arthur 3711:Three beards ( 3676: 3655: 3594: 3576: 3497: 3479: 3429: 3428: 3408: 3385: 3384: 3359: 3358: 3357: 3356: 3348: 3329: 3328: 3311: 3305:old fashioned! 3287: 3286: 3285: 3284: 3283: 3282: 3250: 3232: 3231: 3201: 3200: 3199: 3198: 3197: 3196: 3188: 3170: 3169: 3150: 3149: 3141: 3122: 3121: 3093: 3065: 3057:Rhododendrites 3050: 3049: 3048: 3047: 3046: 3045: 3044: 3043: 3042: 3041: 3033: 3011: 3010: 3003: 3002: 2994:Rhododendrites 2980: 2979: 2971: 2942: 2941: 2933:Rhododendrites 2919: 2918: 2910: 2884: 2862: 2838: 2837: 2836: 2835: 2834: 2833: 2832: 2831: 2800: 2794: 2793: 2792: 2791: 2790: 2759:Rhododendrites 2756: 2755: 2754: 2753: 2752: 2751: 2750: 2742:Rhododendrites 2697:Rhododendrites 2657:Rhododendrites 2587:Rhododendrites 2581: 2580: 2572:Rhododendrites 2559: 2558: 2543: 2474: 2469: 2424: 2419: 2407: 2386: 2374: 2373: 2372: 2336: 2328:Rhododendrites 2303: 2282: 2265: 2248: 2223: 2206: 2187: 2175:requirements. 2165: 2164: 2131: 2130: 2111: 2110: 2109: 2108: 2107: 2106: 2078:Rhododendrites 2071: 2070: 2062:Rhododendrites 2049: 2048: 2030: 2029: 2028: 2027: 2009: 2008: 1993: 1988: 1983: 1971: 1931:Rhododendrites 1915:participants: 1908: 1907: 1613:participants: 1606: 1605: 1521:participants: 1514: 1513: 1487:King of Hearts 1233:participants: 1226: 1225: 1208: 1207: 1206: 1188: 1140: 1124: 1103: 1073: 1072: 1071: 1070: 1069: 1068: 1067: 1066: 1024: 1023: 1005:unencyclopedic 998: 997: 968: 967: 893: 892: 891: 890: 882: 867: 866: 865: 864: 863: 855: 805: 804: 786: 785: 784: 783: 765: 764: 745: 744: 743: 742: 712: 697: 695: 660: 659: 658: 650: 642: 634: 623: 622: 616: 595: 573: 572: 571: 473:Greenleader(2) 469: 465: 438: 437: 428:Rhododendrites 417: 397: 377: 357: 336: 313: 312: 249: 188: 186: 185: 180: 178: 173: 168: 163: 157: 156: 155: 147: 145: 140: 104: 103: 100:WP:WELLWRITTEN 92: 53: 52: 32: 30: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 5815: 5803: 5801: 5797: 5793: 5788: 5787: 5784: 5780: 5776: 5772: 5768: 5766: 5765: 5761: 5757: 5753: 5751: 5746: 5741: 5735: 5721: 5716: 5713:. pp. 36–37. 5712: 5709:. 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