52:â. While the arguments for a procedural Keep based on the number of pages nominated was not anchored in policy, the Delete side failed to attain consensus. Views expressed here suggest discussion would be more effective with individual article nominations or smaller groups, perhaps based on country of venue, which would allow using the appropriate country Portal to solicit views. Any editor is welcome to renominate individual pages or small region-based groups without delay.
1909:
has been nominated individually so a nominator doesn't have to wait months for a follow-up. Secondly, I've seen individual articles removed from bundled nominations so it is worth the time to argue to Keep individual articles if you think that notability can be established. I realize that a bundled nomination can seem overwhelming to editors that are inclusionists but the Delete closure is not a done deal. Make your case, for one or two articles or for them all.
1621:. First of all, any complaints about the bundled nomination are nonsense. These are all extremely similar, and dumping 30 listings at once isn't going to be any better in terms of coverage or participation. If (and that's a big if) anyone thinks that any of these lists are sufficiently unique enough of a case to warrant an individual nomination, they can always explain why, and nomination can be updated to have any like that separate.And second,
1827:
merged with a corresponding article about the particular venue then the same problem applies. That is what I have an objection to/problem with. I accept there a are are instances where bundling is appropriate, but I don't think this is one of them. Sorry to ruffle your feathers Mike - it wasn't my intention. Please accept my apology, but my overall objection still stands.
241:. Other problems exist: Verifiability varies, but many of these are poorly referenced. Almost all events cataloged are not independently notable. The lists don't have clear inclusion criteria -- "entertainment events" doesn't specifically exclude or include sporting events, for example. While the lists are mostly music performances, other performances are ignored.
1625:. Some of these are wildly unsourced, and for those that do have sources, they tend to be primary to the venue, or just some local news coverage that yes, an aging Def Leppard played here, but no one cared enough to show up. That doesn't pass the smell test for NLIST, as especially evidenced by the vague inclusion criteria.
1908:
I'm relisting discussion for another week as it is not realistic to ask participants to evaluate 28 articles over 7 days and because discussion is still ongoing in this discussion. To answer a couple of questions, I've seen bundled nominations closed as
Procedural Keeps and the next day, each article
1437:, which closed as no consensus, neither of which had a second nomination, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. In any case, dumping these all down at once as separate nominations will not produce any more meaningful results than bundling them together, so this just isn't a good argument.
1841:
Thank you for your apology. Is
Wikipeidia process really so inflexible that individual exceptions can't be filtered from a bulk nomination without closing the bulk nomination and re-nominating the articles discretely? Seems sad, if so, that such a process stands in the way of doing the right thing.
1657:
As I explained immediately above, having 30 individual nominations dumped at once isn't going to make a bit of difference in terms of ease of evaluation, and will probably only serve to fragment discussion of this general type of article. And like I also explained, if you think there are any that
1826:
The difficulty with bundling these articles together is there is no opportunity to address an individual article over the bundle of articles. If for instance I can establish notability for one article, then it will be deleted because the other articles are not notable or if one article is better
1398:
These need to be individually nominated (and some were already kept once or twice before individually); some events are naturally excluded because they're not meant for public attendance (for instance, shareholder meetings or private religious rallies) or don't meet our criteria plain and simple
1642:
these need to be considered individually, Bundling them, while simpler for the person nominating, makes it very difficult for those assessing each articles individual value. While I can evaluate the worth of some venues, I can not evaluate all venues. I would also challenge any of you who a
1777:
When an AfD is closed keep, there's the implication that it shouldn't be re-nominated again until some time has passed. Is that also true for a "procedural keep" closure? I think that's so, and that's why I identify a difference between "procedural close" and "procedural keep". --
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suggesting a sweeping delete of all to prove, on the basis of each particular venue named, that that particular venues list should be deleted. Some may be more appropriately merged into the venues article rather than deleted. The bundled nomination makes no sense in this instance.
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deserve to get pulled out because they're sufficiently different, you can always just say so, and I doubt anyone would throw up much of a fuss about it. And it's not anyone's job to "prove" that an article should get deleted, an impossible task anyway. People
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1744:
Thanks! I've heard of a procedural closure before, but never a "procedural keep". To me, they seem quite different: "keep" implies that a decision to keep was made, dismissing the AfD with prejudice ... when really that isn't the intent. (Or is it?) --
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Not to be obstinate, but I don't know what individual nominations would change. If I re-nominated each article, I'd explain the same thing again and again: there's no demonstration of notability of the group of performances, and that doesn't satisfy
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Nothing in the process suggests one (or more than one) cannot be found notable. I'd certainly support a relisting individually if a couple could be found to satisfy NLIST...but no one seems to be able to identify RS for a single one. Regards,
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1570:(and vote Keep all). However, the nominator is in my opinion totally right regarding the fact that certain of these lists would need a better definition of their respective scope, and more sources. But that can be discussed on talk pages.-
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and would make a stronger case for invididual nominations. But to date, not a single RS has been shown that satisfies NLIST for a single venue. These appear nothing more than directory listings and as such are against
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A proceedural keep vote might be acceptable if one could show a flaw in the rationale being applied to all the nominations. That is, if one cited reliable sources showing a couple (just two or three) satisfied
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That's a bit confusing as "List of entertainers" was nominated under a different name. And I see the "Perth Arena" does have a previous nomination, but my first-time nomination links all work, leading here. --
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which applies to all of these articles: are the performances notable, as a group? I think they're not, and I think that applies uniformly. I don't appreciate the implication of laziness. --
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explained why they think these should be deleted, and just asking for more bureaucratic process without actually demonstrating how it might help just comes across as stonewalling.
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What is a "procedural keep vote"? I don't think I've ever heard of it before, and there are two such votes here now. Where can I read about the vote meanings used in AfD? --
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1566:. The variety of venues makes it impossible to vote here imv. And if i was to vote, I would argue most of these lists are about notable topics as a set and might meet
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All procedural closes will by definition be keeps in that specific instance (but not necessarily in general); in contrast "procedural deletes" are covered by
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Nothing obliges you to evaluate the worth (do you mean "notability"?) of any venues. Instead, we're evaluating
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Just wondering: which reasons? The only "Keep" vote says they need to be nominated individually. --
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I looked at the talk page for all of these, and the only ones that had prior AFD results were
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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5 article nominations I just don't see a bulk nom as a good way to filter through GNG/N.
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overall, as the content of the lists aren't notable as a group. Seems to fail
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a procedual keep is when the nomination for deletion contains errors, see
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Entertainment events at Perth Arena
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Not sure how that's an example of convolution. What am I missing? --
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I am also nominating the following related pages on the same basis:
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and having weak inclusion criteria apply to all of the topics. --
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List of entertainment events at
Central Harbourfront Event Space
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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I nominated them together because the concerns about failing
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List of entertainment events at
Movistar Arena (Buenos Aires)
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List of entertainment events at Civic Arena (Pittsburgh, PA)
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List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex
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List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex
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List of entertainment events at the SM Mall of Asia complex
1549:. None of the lists have notability as a class. Regards--
1850:. How would that be meaningfully different for each? --
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List of entertainment events at the Little
Caesars Arena
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1912:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
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767:List of entertainment events at the Araneta Center
1227:List of entertainment events at the Toyota Center
905:List of entertainment events at the United Center
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
2075:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1493:Note: This discussion has been included in the
813:List of entertainment events at Scotiabank Arena
491:List of entertainment events at Crypto.com Arena
1968:as an example. I think you can count that as a
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583:List of entertainment events at Rod Laver Arena
1089:List of entertainment events at AsiaWorldâExpo
399:List of entertainment events at The OVO Hydro
8:
675:List of entertainment events at the O2 Arena
307:List of entertainment events at Rogers Arena
107:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
1382:nonencyclopedic. WIkipedia not catalog. --
537:List of entertainment events at Perth Arena
353:List of entertainment events at Spark Arena
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721:List of entertainment events at Kia Forum
1726:. Worth noting, it's a different from a
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18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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1935:Knowledge (XXG):Tambayan Philippines
1951:Convoluted? What do you mean? -- `
24:
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1497:lists for the following topics:
92:Introduction to deletion process
1541:against policy and guidelines:
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82:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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50:no consensus
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1763:. Regards,
1730:. Regards,
1728:speedy keep
1690:. Regards,
1573:My, oh my!
197:free images
1974:Borgenland
1939:Borgenland
1871:Goldsztajn
1765:Goldsztajn
1732:Goldsztajn
1692:Goldsztajn
1602:Geschichte
1551:Goldsztajn
2069:talk page
1683:WP:BEFORE
1517:Quidditch
1384:Altenmann
37:talk page
2071:or in a
2027:mikeblas
1988:mikeblas
1972:though.
1953:mikeblas
1898:Relisted
1852:mikeblas
1848:WP:NOTDB
1844:WP:NLIST
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160:View log
101:glossary
39:or in a
1505:, and
1417:chatter
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191:scholar
133:protect
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78:New to
2013:Dash9Z
1970:Delete
1761:WP:CSD
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233:Fails
175:Google
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1507:Lists
1387:: -->
1357:views
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218:JSTOR
179:books
154:views
146:watch
142:links
54:OwenĂ
16:<
2042:Keep
2031:talk
2017:talk
2009:Keep
1992:talk
1978:talk
1965:See
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1405:Nate
1396:Keep
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211:FENS
185:news
150:logs
124:talk
120:edit
2051:679
1364:--
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