365:— generally missing before!) and incorporated them concisely into the list. To do so, I reformatted the list, removing the separate "citations" column to better connect references to the information they support. There's still work to do be done on this article, but I hope this is a step in the right direction. —
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is not so long that it couldn't absorb well-documented YouTube examples — I'm a little worried because editors have (even in that article's very short lifetime) removed even some of the most notable YouTube examples like "It's Every Night Sis" (platinum certified, many articles), or "The Fall of Jake
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But perhaps, if the result of this discussion is "Merge," this could be addressed with a note on the talk page of that article? Small concern that a note on the talk page might not fully address the attitude of editors who view "regular" diss tracks as distinct from (and, probably, often superior or
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I appreciate your responsiveness. I'll note first off that 3/4 of those links are currently dead due to site restructuring at their respective publishers, but the articles are all still easily available. In any case, I think your sources clearly demonstrate that this is an important phenomenon ...
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Elaborating on the above, what we would need are sources not just about individual YouTube diss tracks but a bunch of sources which make a clear case that a YouTube diss track is distinct from a diss track beyond just the medium/platform. For me, I'd want to see a main topic along the lines of
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article explicitly states that this is a continuation of the rap culture element in a new format. Several of the sources make it clear that this is a multimedia topic, with YouTube videos fueling visibility for songs that did not necessarily debut there. Also, from a project standpoint,
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more legitimate/than) YouTube diss tracks. These songs not having their own pages suggests they may not be notable enough for
Knowledge right now, but I think we've established that the category is important enough for Knowledge(?) I don't know how balance these important needs!
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We also wouldn't apply the "every entry in the list fails the notability criteria" standard for a list of examples like this. Those are extremely uncommon as stand-alone lists, and would never take the form of examples of a particular genre. —
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YouTube diss tracks specifically have been discussed in the news & media as their own culturally significant phenomenon—distinct from other diss tracks due to their separate artists, audiences, cultures, objectives, and amphitheater.
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is an underdeveloped-developed article — I agree. I don't know, myself, where to find the high quality references needed to build out its missing sections, unfortunately, or I would!
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687:"The list should only be comprised diss tracks that form from genuine beef or animosity. Youtubers that make diss tracks simply for content should not be included in the list."
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531:@Squeamish Ossifrage—here are a few sources that lead me to believe "YouTube diss tracks" are notable as a category unto themselves, and different than diss tracks in general!
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But regardless, there's no reason to separate the YouTubery from everything else. Somewhat close to a non-encyclopedic cross-categorization list.
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Re: Multimedia — In all of these cases, the songs debuted on YouTube, and my understanding is that their popularity off-platform (eg. songs with
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sources that you believe indicate "Youtube diss tracks" are a separate and distinct topic area from "diss tracks" in general?
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I understand if others disagree with the second point. In that case, I believe a different alternative to "merge with
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Since this was first posted, I've made a few changes to try to address concerns with this list, specifically with
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Re: parent concept — I hear you that these represent a continuation of the rap concept discussed in the broader
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Fixed the link formatting! My mistake! Here are a few thoughts on important points you shared (thank you!):
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certification) is a secondary result of the first-order popularity of the YouTube music videos themselves.
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is that each entry have its own article—a standard too high for members of this distinct category.
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so far: I found a couple dozen in-depth 2ary sources from a range of respectable media (such as
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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List-cruft. Non-notable list with a non-neutral genre without many adequate sources. It is a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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795:. There is no need for a second list just for Youtube videos and also we don't use
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Paul" (340M views, many articles). One comment left with that type of revision was
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565:| The Recording Artist Who Went Platinum for His Diss Tracks on Jake Paul
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For the convenience of this AFD, could you provide here the two or three
576:| How a YouTuber War Launched a Jake Paul Diss Track Onto the Hot 100
386:. There is no need to split YouTube diss tracks from regular ones. –
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so long that it cannot absorb well-documented YouTube examples.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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but not one that's wholly distinct from the parent concept (of
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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The first is also why I believe this cross-category is not
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the case, there might be cause to split this up per
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816:Note: This discussion has been included in the
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703:Thank you all so much for your perspectives! —
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111:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
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384:List of notable diss tracks
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86:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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359:The Verge
341:and with
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846:or in a
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622:weren't
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211:WP refs
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137:protect
132:history
82:New to
801:Ajf773
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141:delete
58:RL0919
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558:Slate
456:Merge
382:with
380:Merge
310:Merge
280:Merge
226:JSTOR
187:books
171:Stats
158:views
150:watch
146:links
50:merge
16:<
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421:The
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