799:. Rowaýatlara görä, bu mawzoleý ozallar türkmeniň magtymlar tiresiniň keramatly şyhynyň aramgähimiş. Aramgähde 3-4 sany mazar bar. Geçen asyryň ortalaryna çenli aramgähiň içinde arça agajyndan ýasalan uly sandyk bardy. Şol sandyk kitapdan doly eken. Ol kitaplar soň ýok edilipdir. Aramgähiň çep tarapyndaky uly gaýanyň üstünde ir döwürlerden galan galanyň sudurlary bar. Şol obaly ýaşuly Öwezberdi aganyň aýtmagyna görä, bu gala hem berk goralýan, barmasy aňsat bolmadyk bir dagyň üstünde ýerleşipdir. Muny basybalyjylar şunça synanyşsalar-da, alyp bilmändirler. Her çozuşa galanyň ilaty berk gaýtawul bermegi başarypdyr. Galanyň töwereklerinde, Sumbar jülgesiniň ugurlaryna ekin ekipdirler, mal bakypdyrlar.Ýagy çozan mahalynda bolsa, hemmesi gala ýygnanar ekenler. Galada juda köp adam bolupdyr. Ätiýaçlyk suwlary gutaranda olar Sumbardan dürli suw gaplarda suw alyp, hatara durup, bir-biriniň eline berip, galadaky daşdan howza guýar ekenler. Gaýra ýurtly bir kerwen mydama şu gala gelip, söwda-satyk edip, iküç gün dynç alar eken. Şeýdip, ol kerwen galanyň hanynyň, ilatynyň ynamyna girýär. Olar gije gelse-de, eglenmän, dogry gala goýberer ekenler. Bir gezek ol söwda etmäge gaýdanynda, ýurt görer diýip, öz oglunam ýany bilen alyp gaýdýar. Gelşine-de eglenmän, gala girýär. Dynç alanyndan soňra geçip gidýär. Onuň ogluny alyp gelendigini bilen duşmanlar oglanjygy alyp, söwdagäriň öňünde: «Bize şol gala girmek üçin ýol tapyp ber, bolmasa-da ogluňy öldüreris» diýýärler. Täjir kerweni bilen gijäniň bir wagty gelip, galanyň derwezesini kakýar. Derweze açylanda, duşmanlar gala girip, galanyň ilatyny gyrýarlar. Ogly olja, gyzy ýesir edýärler. Şondan soň, ol gala öňki kaddyna gelip dikelmändir. Bu oba Magtymgala diýen adyň, bu ýerde iňňän ir döwürlerden bäri «magtymlar» tiresiniň ýaşanlygyndan galan bolmagy mümkindir. Galanyň Gündogar we Günbatar taraplarynda birki metrden beýik bolmadyk daşlardan gurulan diwarlaryň galyndylary henizlerem bar.
357:, I'm confused by your "stop wasting my time" comment. If you created an article based on a single travel guide source, then surely you either had sufficient sourcing on hand to establish notability (3 reliable sources is a general rule of thumb) or planned to add it in the near future. How is anyone wasting your time by asking you to do something that you were going to do anyway? Were you expecting others to do this work for you? –
641:. In translation from Arabic, “mahdum” (magsym) means “master” and “myaezem” means “great”. The mausoleum was built in honour of holy patron of magtyms, whose name occupies seventy-eight position in the chain from Adam where Prophet Mohammed is on forty-nine place. People used to call him Mahzum Agzam or Imam Agzam as it was forbidden to say own name of powerful and respected representative of Sufi clergy.
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based specialists. Of the few western scholars—Victoria
Clement, Slavomir Horak et al—who specialize on the country, none has been allowed access to the State Archives despite intense diplomatic efforts and that says something. Now, it is your call whether you want to start nuking 80% content belonging to Wikiproject Turkmenistan or
502:. The editor has been nominating tens of articles from different geographical regions in the belief that they violate GEOLAND - it is impossible that someone will be competent enough to ascertain legal status of territories in so many countries and such a bull-in-the-chinashop approach is only indicative of hubris.
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but that's how it appears to my eyes. Suggest moving it to Draft space where improvements can be made, including providing a robust source for the legal registration, and hopefully some further interesting facts about the place and its history, economy, transport, wildlife and people, all backed up
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I cannot speak a lick of
Turkmen, but when I search for Magtymg-, I get multiple hits. Google Translate's limited Turkmen-English translation capabilities mention that it's next to words like village. I'm not sure if this is what it refers to, but I can't tell what else it could be. But it does make
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you'd finished listing the offline sources. It is reasonable for someone to bring it here if they consider it inadequately supported, and if they cannot find sources themselves, even if there are political reasons why those sources are hard to find. I'd therefore suggest draftifying until you and/or
1088:
It is your claim that sources authored by
Turkmenistan government noting it to be a village in their publications do not make it one? Or is it your claim that individual villages are not recognized in Turkmenistan? Or is it your claim that I am yet to provide any source from Turkmenistan Government
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in
Turkmenistan. Almost everything that you will ever have on post-independent Turkmenistan will be either sourced to Turkmenistan Government and scholars affiliated to them (either directly or via various missions) or travel guides by former diplomats. Concerning politics etc, you have some Moscow
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There were three attempts to build mausoleum on top of the grave but all of them ended up feebly. Another attempt was undertaken in XVI century and as it mentioned in one of the manuscripts of genealogy, it was organized by
Seyitguly – sopy, rahmanguly – sultan and Temirbeg – yuzbashy, Musa Bin Abu
644:
However, it is known that he was born in Gorgan two hundred years after
Mongolian invasion and was not only Sufi by birth but also passed judgement for 10 years while being ruler of his velayat in the interfluve of Atrek and Gorgan rivers. The Holy man died in XV century and was buried at place of
656:
Two spiral staircases inside the walls lead to miniature balconies and the roof. Cruciform hall is covered by double-layer dome based on shield - shaped pendentives, which are decorated by gunch plaster. Looking at the dome while standing in the centre of the hall, one can see that its edges make
1296:- adequately sourced as it stands - no need for draftification. There is no ban on stubs - articles don't have to start as, umm, Start class. I must also comment that in my view the treatment of TrangaBellam above, who there is no reason to doubt is a GF editor, is coming close to bullying.
958:, independent of the subject? If you are pointing at non-govt. sources, you won't get any: media is controlled by Turkmen Government directly (or indirectly). Robust sources: if Government publications mentioning it as a village are not robust, I don't know what it is.
58:
Thanks everyone for participating. Unhappy with this decision? If one wishes to renominate this article with another policy-based rationale, they are able to do so. I will defer to other administrators to review it. I will not re-review my decision. Happy holidays.
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mausoleum, the legend says that white camel carrying the corpse of deceased has stopped and laid down there, much probably, following his will to inter him in certain place. Close disciples and associates of Magtym
Myaezem considered stop of camel as a sign.
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Uniqueness of modest looking mausoleum is that it resembles some of famous monuments of XV century by its planning composition. Entrance portal peshtak with vaulted niche dominates on main façade; there are smaller arched niches in two rows on both side of
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A search for МАГТЫМГАЛА in that document brings up no hits, so we're still where we were. Quoting from a tourist website (i.e., essentially an advert) does not substantiate notability. I have no problem with deleting poorly-sourced non-notable
Geostubs
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552:, it does not include articles on localities with no legal recognition and about which no encyclopaedic article can be written. The entire point of what we are trying to achieve here is that we are supposed to be writing encyclopaedia articles,
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and that he found the village worthy of an entire paragraph is an indicator of notability in itself.Sources concerning
Turkmenistan are in Russian/Turkmen and shall not be expected to be found online. This is a result of
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Not finding anything (legal recognition or GNG) to establish notability aside from the single travel guide entry that's cited. Coordinates may be off, since there doesn't seem to be a village at this location.
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612:, a lesson in reading? And since this is a government website pitched to tourists, a lesson in what an independent source actually is? Followed by a lesson in how to discuss things on the internet?
1030:. Please reply with the very best 3 sources, all working, non 404ing. Optionally provide them via a translation service. Please don't copy-and-paste the contents. Just 3 URLs that satisfy
1118:. The slippery slope argument would cry: "every property address mentioned in every court case could end up with its own wiki page". There has to be some threshold - some definition for
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as well as censorship practices of Govt. of
Turkmenistan — for example, their National Library does not have any presence in internet! It is for the former reasons, that we presume
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994:? What are the specs? I have cited at-least three sources which devote more than a paragraph to the village and the mausoleum - why do you feel that they fail to establish
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Turkmen Legal Code features an apparently exhaustive list of villages but presidential/parliamentary resolutions and decrees often mention other villages.
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One more round, please. It would be great to have some fresh eyes on this that aren't involved in the article itself. Also please keep it civil.
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Now you are proposing that the government source describing the village and associated mausoleum be discounted because it is an advertisement?
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52:. Going with the keeps to allow for them to improve, expand and grow this article with the "exhaustive" citations that supposedly exist.
784:. Vol. 2: Invertebrate and Vertebrate Animals (3 ed.). Ashgabat: Ministry of Nature Protection, Government of Turkmenistan. p. 314.
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the settlement and the mausoleum in five paragraphs? Or, that the Turkmenistan Academy of Sciences is similarly ignorant? Wow.
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Good luck convincing others. The sources were already cited in this AfD but whatever. Please have the last word.
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news-article from Turkmenistan Government discusses the settlement and the mausoleum in significant detail. I am
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It's probably the first. And therein lies the issue. The fact that something gets a mention in some decree or
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read that or do you expect me to read it for you? Maybe, teach you Turkmen language? You wish to claim that the
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The Magtym Mausoleum has entered the history of national architecture as sample of classic constructive forms.
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For the sake of clarity, which particular source showing legal recognition did you find convincing?
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requires significant coverage in multiple sources, but again there is no such evidence provided here.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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You need to give definite arguments; not handwave at policies and claim violations. What is
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are the coordinates of Makhtumkala (var. Magtymgala) and I cannot be held responsible for a
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GEOLAND do not require a GNG pass. That being said, consult the article for the sources?
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work for you? Since you have some inability in reading English, let me quote the passage:
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Rustamov, Anver K.; Sopyev, Ovez (1994). Fet, Victor; Atamuradov, Khabibulla I. (eds.).
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populated, legally recognized places to be notable, even if their population is very low
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They haven't conducted a census since '95 - so you won't be getting fancy tables etc.
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the Turkmenistan govt website does not mention the topic of the article by name at all
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to start listing offline sources including archaeological reports on the mausoleum -
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space this can be brought up to spec, then go through appropriate review via AfC.
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That said, the additional citations that today appeared in the article help with
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has identified only passing mentions of the location. What is required for a
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The article is a stub. The notability is questionable, and were it not for
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Modest mausoleum called by native people as Magtym – mayazem stands alone
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Obada XIV asyrdan galan ýadygärlik Magtym Mäzemiň aramgähi seleňläp dur
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govt website does not mention the topic of the article by name at all.
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In West Kopetdagh in the 1970s, leopards were spotted in next to the
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me wonder why the article name is Makhtumkala instead of Magtymgala.
407:. Monographiae Biologicae. Dordrecht: Springer Netherlands. p. 208.
310:. I do not assume the nominator to be proficient in Turkmen to know
932:'s option for legal recognition there would be little else showing
535:, but no evidence of that is provided here. Similarly a pass under
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Also, in the future, please keep it civil in deletion discussions.
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Gerkez obasynda, 10 kilometr Gündogarda Magtymgala obasy ýerleşýär
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
604:(to openstreetmap.org . . . ). Maybe lessons in HTML and
384:Туркменистаның географик атларынын душундиришли сѳзлуги
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386:. Ashgabat: Turkmenistan Academy of Sciences. p. 201.
731:? The website is of "Altyn Asyr", mouthpiece of the
909:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
874:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
720:Search better. Till now, you were stating that the
548:populated place is notable: this is not the case.
275:list of Turkmenistan-related deletion discussions
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1325:). No further edits should be made to this page.
405:Vertebrates in the Red Data Book of Turkmenistan
377:- Кака районында магтымларың яшаян обасы, гала
273:Note: This discussion has been included in the
255:Note: This discussion has been included in the
663:It might be new knowledge to you that there is
544:There seems to be a misunderstanding here that
257:list of Geography-related deletion discussions
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998:? Draftspace is not a IDONTLIKEIT junkyard.
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114:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
972:Well, as independent as possible. Once in
582:is ignorant about its own villages when it
396:village of Makhtumkala in the Sumbar Valley
606:Knowledge's standards for reliable sources
496:and if they cannot find sources themselves
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1074:. What source shows legal recognition?
772:: Single occurrences were registered in
649:Muhammed from Isfahan was an architect.
1217:Those cited above by TrangaBellam. --
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757:You want more "legal recognition?"
299:British Ambassador to Turkmenistan
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782:The Red Data Book of Turkmenistan
727:How did you ascertain it to be a
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99:Introduction to deletion process
770:Number and tendencies to change
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
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413:10.1007/978-94-011-1116-4_13
382:Атаныязов, Солтанша (1970).
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763:: Ýary-ganatlaryň ýek‑tüki
89:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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293:- The travel guide is by
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1026:OK, how about going for
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600:Wow indeed. You posted
531:#1 pass is evidence of
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936:. The Apologies to
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1268:"Oh no it wasn't..."
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657:sixteen points star.
333:stop wasting my time
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