482:: I recognize and support the evolution of policy over the years. But most of the policies under which articles such as this were originally created have not fundamentally changed within the last decade, so if an article was not a problem then, I don't see why that should be the case now. I also did not in any way intend to imply that every person in the world who is given significant coverage only in primary sources should have an article here on Knowledge, and apologize if anything I have said has been interpreted as such. That said, for a religious denomination that has 16+ million members worldwide, and is recognized as the fourth (or even third)-largest religious denomination in the world, there should be a similar (but certainly not identical) policies establishing notability for full-time leaders of this Church. And again, through no fault of my own, my efforts to try and establish such an exception have me running around in circles. It is certainly up to you whether or not to halt the discussion on this nomination. Either way, I will continue to do what I can to find the right place to have the discussion that many editors have agreed needs to take place to establish notability standards. And again, if the consensus opts for deletion, I will accept that decision (whether or not I personally agree with it). But it seems to me that continuing the deletion discussion for such articles may be somewhat disingenuous if earnest efforts are being made by myself and others to resolve the concerns that led to the deletion nominations to begin with. --
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deliberated, I'd appreciate being directed to it without further run-arounds or misdirects. That said, I have edited
Knowledge for over a decade now, and although I understand the notability policies, it is curious that these deletion nominations have only become a real thing here on Knowledge within the last 2-3 years. The notability guidelines now are the same as they were when I first joined Knowledge as an editor in 2007, and if articles about such subjects were not a problem at that time, I fail to see why that is suddenly the case now. That said, I understand the policies involved, and if the consensus determines that General Authority Seventy articles need to be deleted for failing to meet the notability guidelines, I will accept that decision. But I am in the process of trying to establish an exception that would categorically establish notability for General Authority Seventies, so I would also be appreciative if this discussion and a decision on it could be placed on hold while I work on that issue. If that's not possible, it's not a problem, but I thought I'd ask.--
442:, that is precisely the problem. In Knowledge's notability standards, there is no established exception for LDS general authority seventies. That is not for lack of trying. In prior deletion discussions, the issue of establishing such subjects as notable was discussed extensively, but almost every time, people participating in the discussion of that subject in the section(s) to which I was referred by those participating in such discussions indicated that those sections were not the correct place to raise this issue. I have therefore been given the run-around. This creates an enormous paradox: the subjects of these articles are notable precisely
468:– I don't view the present status quo regarding notability guidelines as a problem at all. The guidelines were created based upon consensus regarding what is worthy of inclusion in the encyclopedia. Also, I don't view Knowledge as a repository for every person in the world that has received significant coverage only in primary sources. There are other websites and resources available for those that do not meet Knowledge's notability standards. Also, I do not want to place this discussion on hold at all.
386:– Subjects that the LDS church find to be noteworthy are not automatically notable as per Knowledge's standards. Mormon subjects and leaders do not get a free pass for an article based upon the concept of presumed notability, because no guideline or policy exists to qualify this sort of automatic notability. As such, multiple
68:. Moreover, I suspect the only reason it didn't get more support is that it was made so late in the discussion. I'm guessing that had such an apropos redirect target been suggested earlier, it would have found support. If anybody feels the redirect is harmful, my feelings won't be hurt if you take it to
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of the service they render to the Church and its' worldwide membership, and if they were not in the positions through which such service were rendered, they would be no more notable to the Church or anywhere else than someone like me is. If there is a proper place for the notability question to be
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The barometer of notability is whether people independent of the topic itself (or of its manufacturer, creator, author, inventor, or vendor) have actually considered the topic notable enough that they have written and published non-trivial works of their own that focus upon it—without incentive,
625:. The issue of independent sources for leaders of denominations with tight hierarchies and official publications is difficult, and is worthy of more careful attention. However, in this particular case, the lack of even incidental independent coverage makes this article clear to me.
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420:, with a consensus to not add a stipulation regarding said presumption of notability to the guideline page. Sorry, but the !vote above is rooted entirely in personal opinion, not Knowledge guidelines or policies.
688:. This may be a popular search term as there are millions of Mormons worldwide and the only thing he is recognized for is being the FQotS. Just merge there that the current one is this guy.
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For reference, here are some previous discussions of LDS leaders in
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Articles for deletion/Marcos A. Aidukaitis (2nd nomination)
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