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editors jump at
Israeli casualties to make memorials they oppose the practice, is a unilateral abuse. The difference has nothing to do with saying Israeli lives don't matter. If 'we' were as ideologically motivated as some editors here we could churn out a dozen articles on Palestinian victims for every Israeli victim stub. One just doesn't play that game. What is remarkable about the 'pro-Israeli' editors who put this stuff up all of the time, is their failure to add anything other than the bare facts, ignoring key details the few sources used do supply, details that make for a far more complex picture. Their apparent aim is to record a murder, the skeletal outline, nothing more and then 'reactions' of outrage. It's POV manipulation: everyone knows that.
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cannot stand on their own. It is notable that whoever writes up these articles carefully avoids citing articles about the larger context of murders like that of Rina Shnerb. They don't put in all of the information about the massive expropriations, enclosures of village lands, impoverishment, in order for illegal settlements and their folks to enjoy Jews-alone recreation parks, as Amira Hass provided in detail for the Shnerb case. By carefully omitting context, you create an image of in this case
Palestinians popping out of nowhere and, as is their nature, killing Israeli Jews. There is no 'history' behind this weird behavior, just animal instincts and hatred of Jews. Go and read
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example the Sbarro suicide bombing. It would include Faris Odeh, Khalil al-Mughrabi and
Muhammad al-Durrah and al-Kheidr. It would not include the what are more regular occurrences that have the typical news stories about the attack, the arrest, and conviction and resulting sentence. And yes, at that article you called faithfully reflecting the sources and the hello video tape to be essentially propaganda. And said you didnt think it notable. I think all these articles should go. Get it?
989:, and RS coverage is what it is, for better or worse -- take your issue up with the news media, not Knowledge if you are annoyed that supposedly "Palestinian lives matter less than Israeli ones" (also, is this a deletion argument? Palestinian lives allegedly don't matter, so you'd rather Israeli lives not matter either? What the actual f*? No, of course I don't think you think that Huldra, but that is exactly how it reads) --
957:. (Btw: If we look at Knowledge, there are at least 10 times as many articles about Israeli civilians killed, as there are articles about Palestinian civilians killed. The reality is opposite: at least 10 Palestinian civilians are killed for each civilian Israelis killed. Palestinian lives definitely don't matter :-( ),
1082:, in order to ensure that a balanced and neutral reconstruction emerges. The practice of writing such stubs is a sign of an oxymoronic vigorous laziness: getting a few data down in a jiffy for a POV slant, hoping it gets approved, and then leaving the burden of writing to fix the partisan skewing, to others.
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is putrid. What are
Palestinian victims, an eraser to scrub away Israeli victims? The solution to insufficient coverage is not erasing other coverage, and this is not some disgusting contest. If you want more coverage of Palestinians who have suffered and be murdered, really, you should work on that,
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Calthinus. Editors with a 'Palestinian' interest have long decided not to 'harvest' numerous events of
Palestinians being shot dead without provocation to make articles, this on policy grounds, and because writing quick stubs is boring and unencyclopedic. Therefore, observing the alacrity with which
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too should articles on violence against
Palestinians. Get it this time? I think all of them should be deleted. I dont think we need an article for anything besides some of the more well known attacks and fatalities, or the ones that had some sort of scandal or notoriety to it. That would include for
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based on persistent coverage in reliable sources. Inclusion is based on what reliable sources have covered, not what editors believe they should have covered. Our concept of notability is a proxy for the inchoate notion of "what a reasonable person might turn to an encyclopedia to look up," and the
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That is not propaganda. It gives very precise verifiable details of the context in which the murder of the girl occurred. Supported the inclusion of this type of stub smacks of propaganda for a cause, and since key details, in sources, of the context of the murder are suppressed, the manufacture of
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A few days ago, just one of an unending cycle of official murders, an autistic
Palestinian, Iyad Hallak (32), was walking to his special needs school in central Jerusalem. He was confronted by two heavily armed soldiers and panicked. Shots were fired, he fled and when he was run down, cowering near
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What's writing a great wrong to do with it? I certainly am on record as stating over over a decade that editing to right a great wrong is pointless, since one party won, the other is humiliated out of history. and there's no point thinking things will change. What wiki is about is the encyclopedic
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You haven't grasped what I wrote. I, like several others here, observe policy, and do not exploit
Knowledge to write up Palestinian deaths in order to create a propaganda image of a consistent record of victims of the occupation's violence. In the past I have created lists for that. Such incidents
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like this have a handful of sources contemporary with the incident (within a day or two). They all massively fail persistence and egregiously violate policy. For those who leap at every
Israeli death to make a stub, hoping it will again wriggle past the rules by disattention, the only option is to
629:. The initial burst of coverage was the same as that of any news event, and less than a year later, coverage of the murder has ceased. Human-interest stories like "her parents had a baby" are not enduring notability. A selective merge to whatever the list article is could be appropriate? –
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with 6 newspaper reports of that day. After 9 months we have a stub with 10 articles, the diff being (a)suspects were arrested (b) their homes demolished (c) they were brought to trial. I.e. routine. Someone is killed, suspects are arrested, homes demolished, and convictions
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And I personally am always disgruntled that the incompetence of editors means that when this memorial stuff is approved, people like myself are forced to waste valuable time pulling up all of the silenced details in sources which the pushy editors avoided adding, as I did at
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Um, I edit here, not there. And I could quite easily run up articles on hundreds of
Palestinian deaths in the occupied territories at the hands of settlers or soldiers. And I could say hey look there are a bunch of news articles about it. But I would be committing the same
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26 August 2019, and add all of the details to this article, if you think it should be kept. Otherwise, this trimmed down version remains a POV loaded memorial push, one more piece of wiki evidence of how those occupied savages torment and murder nice people.
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has policy in its favor, and it appears the three of you aren't even disputing that point anymore, but instead are arguing that there is disproportionate coverage of Israeli victims relative to Palestinian ones. That may even be true. But we are not here to
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incident in the occupied territories, and I see 20 RS reports of the incident and the analogy. But one does not abuse wiki rules to memorialize these things, which are, for Palestinians, a weekly occurrence. The same applies
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Several times in the past, I and others have waited a month and more before making, or contributing to an article on a Palestinian death. One wait, and this is what rule-compliance asks of us in this kind of reportage.
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create a list, and include them all there, since in each case, you really will only have(a) murder (b)assailant (c)death/conviction of assailant.,with all sources essentially copying the same initial reports.
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Six sources in one day actually speaks to the strength of RS coverage; editorial laziness is not an argument for deletion. Frankly the fact that we are talking about Palestinian victims here
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What is being made up here? Francois has pointed out exactly what happened in the above conversation, once you strip away the accusations of propaganda and fluff. --
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Yes, I feel all of these articles should be deleted, in case you couldnt read the subtext of my vote there. Kinda silly of you to make that comment given your own
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more extensively something is covered, the more likely someone is to look for additional information about it. That's why we cover a much higher percentage of
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This is part of an ongoing series of stubs, which will remain stubs for lack of evidence of persistence of reportage, whose aim is to overturn
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per Shrike, Calthinus and H. Wolfowitz. Also, I do not find the OP's idea that suffering should be erased in the name of equality acceptable.
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You seem to misunderstand the issues with systemic bias and how an encyclopedia distorting the ratios here is effectively propaganda. But ok.
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is conditional on sufficient coverage, wide reportage, which, at least here, is not yet attested. There is no contradiction in his position.
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that murders in I/P conflicts that receive wide coverage should be kept.I fail to see any difference except the nationality of the victim --
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The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong!
1234:. The event has been mentioned in several RS books since then, and innumerable articles. I.e. it has permanent coverage down to 2019.
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violation that you are so invested in keeping. So I dont, I just nominate crap articles for deletion when I see them.
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Actually it is.There was a recent article 2 weeks ago about the murder year after the crime so yes it was persistent.
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I fail to see who it WP:ROUTINE. it is not "announcements, sports, speculative coverage, and tabloid journalism" --
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Yes, as with most crimes, there is coverage of the crime, arrest, and penalties. That is not persistent coverage.
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Nypost AFP BBC and AP in my view are sufficient international coverage did you missed the links that I posted? --
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There is an established precedent that violent acts in the long-running Arab-Israeli conflict merit articles
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22 June 1024, I started to add some edits, a week thereafter, i.e. five weeks into the intense news cycle
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cast members than EMTs, even though one group is virtually of no earthly good to almost anyone.
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I am sorry but one sided propaganda opinion pieces shouldn't be added to neutral WP articles --
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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these bits and pieces has no intention to observe Knowledge's principles of neutrality.
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per Shrike, this doesn't seem like a notnews event if it's still being reported on.
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multiple international source still report about the incident and its consequences
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his school, one of them pumped two bullets into him. It was the nth example of a
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745:, If you think Iyad Hallak deserve an article go ahead and create one also see
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to get over a sense that Israel is uniquely prey to terrorism. Two others,
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Sure, when we see that these news stories get deleted on both sides.
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We base our coverage on RS. Take your issue up with them. Not us.--
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My vote not because it was not notable but because it is one sided
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The Tragic Hike That Has Nothing to Do With the Landscape and Land
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articles about violence directed against Israelis should be kept,
476:. So why do you voted keep there and then voting delete here? --
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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This may all be true. But nothing addresses the matter that
1431:- per reliable sources. Per continued coverage. Per WP:GNG.
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So you going to propose Mohammad Habali article to AFD? --
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or create a list and merge these incidents into one page.
567:. Shrike, this is a matter of grammar. Nableezy wrote:-
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the article was started by another editor 16 June 2014
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676:“persistent coverage” is widely subjective. IMO keep
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if there is sufficient coverage in international news
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749:.Btw Here is only recent article about Dvir Sorek
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1460:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1392:lol, please dont make things up, it isnt civil.
929:Note: This discussion has been included in the
909:Note: This discussion has been included in the
889:Note: This discussion has been included in the
869:Note: This discussion has been included in the
342:Note: This discussion has been included in the
319:Note: This discussion has been included in the
296:Note: This discussion has been included in the
273:Note: This discussion has been included in the
931:list of Palestine-related deletion discussions
891:list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions
344:list of Palestine-related deletion discussions
298:list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions
1192:occurred 15 May 2014. Coverage was intense so
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494:crap articles like this are routinely kept.
121:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
911:list of Israel-related deletion discussions
321:list of Israel-related deletion discussions
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871:list of Crime-related deletion discussions
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1130:to ascertain continuity and importance.
1128:books, reviews and serious articles say
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1274:A stub was made the very next day,
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106:Introduction to deletion process
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
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428:It was the proposer who said
1263:Contrast this type of stub.
1098:our coverage is based on RS
96:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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1270:occurred on 23 August 2019
854:to be 'proud' of, apropos.
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1450:Please do not modify it.
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818:13:48, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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738:09:24, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
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643:19:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
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32:Please do not modify it.
1317:not erasing Israelis.--
725:Murder of Ori Ansbacher
1080:Death of Yehuda Shoham
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130:Murder of Rina Shnerb
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55:(non-admin closure)
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1042:WP:NOTNEWS
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769:Amira Hass
627:WP:ROUTINE
472:piece per
470:WP:POVPUSH
370:WP:DIVERSE
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1454:talk page
1410:Calthinus
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1111:Calthinus
1084:Nishidani
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37:talk page
1456:or in a
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