243:) and geography (countries where the majority of the population is a native speaker of a language which belongs to the Slavic langue family). These are then linked to an arbitrary group of nationality-based diaspora articles, ethnicity-based diaspora articles, and diaspora articles which are a mix of nationality and ethnicity. For the sake of argument, I will assume that "ethnic Belarusian" etc. means "a native speaker of Belarusian", and therefore a native speaker of a Slavic language. Under that interpretation, all nationality-based articles shouldn't be in this DP, because that includes all people with Belarusian nationality, regardless of what their native language is. E.g.
950:
unchanging undeniable part of one's identity, as it is in
Bulgaria, for example), for that matter), as it is about striving to be a sovereign society that chooses its own way, and develop in its own manner within the wider European and global context. Therefore, reductionist linguistic groupings of the Ukrainians and their diaspora as "Slavic" do not really do justice to the complex and nuanced situation as it can be objectively observed, nor to the way it is subjectively experienced and expressed.
998:
language, Russian as her second, Ukrainian as her third, gets a job in
Simferopol (mostly speaking Russian at work and in society), but has to flee to Kyiv in March 2014 when she rebuilds her life (e.g. she gets a new job, wherein Ukrainian becomes increasingly important for communication at work and in society), and then has to flee to Poland in February 2022, where she has to start all over again in Warsaw, hoping to return to Kyiv (and if possible Crimea) some day in the future.
914:
even primarily based on ethnicity. The definition above is a very good one, because it seems to remain consistently applicable during a period when many sources have stated that
Ukraine has significantly and rapidly changed from a nation based on ethnic nationalism to a more unified civic one that includes a number of ethnic, linguistic, cultural and religious groups (including Ukrainian and Russian speakers, Crimean Tatars, Jews, &c).
972:, refers to a particular set of national groups. Thereās no reason to define the category narrowly as āSlavic-language-speaking diaspora,ā which would be a less likely interpretation to me. My dictionary has a main definition, meaning of or relating to the language family branch in C&EE, and a subsense, meaning relating to or denoting the peoples who speak a Slavic language. It is quite normal to interpret
1001:
Now, if we were to define "Ukrainian" very narrowly in ethnolinguistic terms, she would not be counted as part of the "Ukrainian diaspora", and thus the "Slavic diasporas", just because
Ukrainian is not her first language (nor is Russian, for that matter). However, if we define "Ukrainian" in broad,
1079:
the closing admin should be aware this is a dab page and basically its a NPOV slav nationalist thing claiming a single racial identity for a set of nationality based articles where the affected peoples reflect the same cross sections of ethnicities and language groups found across the FSU. As a dab
940:
I agree with all those observations, actually. Ukrainians can be defined in an ethnic and in a civic way, and each individual may have a different emphasis; it depends on who you ask. But I think the civic approach is most applicable in the 21st century, as there is a strong and widespread sense of
1010:
for her whole life (probably more than
Crimean Tatar as her first language, let alone Russian as second and Ukrainian as third). I don't know if we should consider this hypothetical woman part of "Ukrainians" as a "national group" the way you are describing it, but I would regard her as neither an
913:
refers to āUkrainians and their descendants,ā further explaining that that is āthose who maintain some kind of connection to the land of their ancestors and maintain their feeling of
Ukrainian national identity within their own local community.ā In fact, many national communities are not solely or
997:
Let me try to illustrate this with an example. (I hope this will be realistic, and not insensitive, because this is stuff that has been happening, and people should be aware). Suppose that a
Crimean Tatar woman with Ukrainian nationality, born and raised in Crimea, with Crimean Tatar as her first
949:
which is all true), in
Ukrainian society and those who fled or migrated abroad. Contemporary Ukrainian culture is not so much based on ethnocentric ideas such as the Ukrainian language, let alone on being "Slavic" (or being "Eastern Slavic" or "Eastern Orthodox" or clinging to Cyrillic etc. as an
251:, are part of the nationality-based "Belarusian diaspora", but not the ethnicity-based "Belarusian diaspora". But even if we purge it all and only keep the purely ethnicity-based diaspora articles, there is a long series of precedents which have confirmed that language family is a
52:ā. The general consensus is that this article not only currently fails NPOV (which is not a valid reason for deletion), but that the nature of the subject makes that problem fundamentally unfixable (which is). The only "keep" argument does nothing to refute this.
718:
and their descendants who live outside
Ukraine around the world, especially those who maintain some kind of connection to the land of their ancestors and maintain their feeling of Ukrainian national identity within their own local
289:
199:
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Iām not opposing, but the rationale is not sound, because it relies on artificially narrow definitions based on ethnicity, a concept introduced by the nomination and not inherently defining of the subjects or the
766:
actually does not mention ethnicity at all. It merely says āUkrainiansā, a term that my dictionary doesnāt define by ethnicity either: āa native or inhabitant of
Ukraine, or a person of Ukrainian descent.ā
884:
In addition to the arguments above all Slavs except some Poles or Belarusians are technically 'Slavic diaspora' as they are 'scattered across regions which are separate from geographic place of origin'.
832:
920:
This article is not a disambiguation page as it purports to be, because there is no clash of article titles. It is more like a category listing. Diasporas appear to be categorized geographically, as in
917:
I thought it worth discussing because many Knowledge (XXG) discussions focus unreasonable on unduly atomizing ethnicity and nationality and therefore fail to reflect RSās on related subjects.
1002:
civic, nationality-based terms, then of course she is a Ukrainian. Whether her first language is part of this or that language family doesn't really matter; it has no bearing on her career (
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Ah, I think the confusion might come from how you use the term "national groups" (in an anthropolical / sociological sense?) while I use the term "nationality" in a legal sense.
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So this is about nationality again. Meanwhile, the article contains the phrase "ethnicity" 6 times and "nationality" 5 times, both mostly in the references.
727:
According to official Spanish statistics, there are 112,728 Ukrainians in Spain as of late 2019, being the 11th biggest foreign nationality found in Spain.
103:
824:
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648:. The existence of a numerous diaspora of Serbian nationals is mainly a consequence of either economic or political (coercion or expulsion) reasons.
1011:"ethnic Ukrainian" nor as a "Slavic" person, but she certainly is a Ukrainian national, part of the Ukrainian diaspora in Poland. Good day,
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I see no good reason to delete, nor for the deletions of the other categories and articles, what a terrible trend.
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That's essentially saying you do not accept community consensus, and that core Knowledge (XXG) policies such as
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refers to all inhabitants/citizens of the country, regardless of any ethnic, cultural or religious affiliation.
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Follow-up to long series of precedents, including but not limited to the deletion (or merging/renaming) of:
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Map of the Bulgarian diaspora in the world (includes people with Bulgarian ancestry or citizenship).
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from their homeland, and does not restrict it applying to an ethnicity. Similarly, for example,
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Macedonian diaspora in the world (includes people with Macedonian ancestry or citizenship).
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are "no good reasons", while not citing any policy or guideline in favour of a keep.
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refers to emigrants from the territory of Belarus as well as to their descendants.
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Examination whether each article is nationality-based, ethnicity-based, or a mix
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/List of Turkic dynasties and countries
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So this is another mix of ethnicity-based and nationality-based diaspora.
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A bit unclear, mixed, but mostly ethnicity-based. On the other hand,
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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For example, my dictionary says diaspora is the dispersion of
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/List of Slavic cultures
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Ukrainian and Russian speakers, Crimean Tatars, Jews, &c
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and people of Polish heritage or origin who live outside
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I see how one can infer it from the link to the article
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Slavic Americans
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Lists of Celts
1006:). Having Ukrainian nationality, however, has been
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as meaning how itās intended in this article title.
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409:emigrants of all ethnicities and their descendants
276:Category:Slavic-speaking countries and territories
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1104:). No further edits should be made to this page.
823:Note: This discussion has been included in the
785:Note: This discussion has been included in the
675:) refers to the diaspora communities of ethnic
1080:this in inherently NPOV and must be removed.
8:
569:Both, so it includes non-ethnic Macedonians.
104:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
945:, and inclusion of diversity (as mentioned
475:Both, so it includes non-ethnic Bulgarians.
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271:Category:Slavic countries and territories
494:and/or Croatian citizens living outside
490:(...) consists of communities of ethnic
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311:"People by language family of descent"
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679:. It is not to be confused with the
363:may refer to any of the following
325:Some related ongoing discussions:
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673:Š”ŃŠæŃŠŗŠ° Š“ŠøŃŠ°ŃŠæŠ¾ŃŠ°/Srpska dijaspora
315:Category:People of Slavic descent
827:lists for the following topics:
789:lists for the following topics:
762:, but the quoted lead text from
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336:Category:Slavic-American society
285:Category:Former Slavic countries
89:Introduction to deletion process
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526:, as well as from the former
644:emigrant communities in the
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923:Category:European diasporas
895:06:28, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
778:14:55, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
613:is the global community of
79:(AfD)? Read these primers!
59:06:55, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
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874:19:18, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
815:14:55, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
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309:The total deletion of the
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266:Category:Slavic countries
1094:Please do not modify it.
723:Ukrainian diaspora#Spain
344:(nominated for deletion)
300:Category:Celtic American
295:Category:Slavic American
32:Please do not modify it.
332:(nominated for merging)
833:Bosnia and Herzegovina
330:Category:Serb diaspora
245:Lithuanians in Belarus
161:edits since nomination
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239:of language family (
559:Macedonian diaspora
382:Belarusian diaspora
376:Belarusian diaspora
911:Ukrainian diaspora
764:Ukrainian diaspora
704:Ukrainian diaspora
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247:who move to, say,
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194:free images
760:Ukrainians
719:community.
716:Ukrainians
714:comprises
709:Ukrainian
640:refers to
584:comprises
520:emigration
283:including
1098:talk page
1004:WP:OCEGRS
870:Spiderone
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365:diasporas
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1100:or in a
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907:a people
902:article.
837:Bulgaria
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711:diaspora
685:migrants
646:diaspora
618:Russians
530:and the
444:, which
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423:Bosnians
413:Bosnians
157:View log
98:glossary
39:or in a
1082:Spartaz
982:Michael
928:Michael
865:Ukraine
863:, and
841:Croatia
829:Belarus
801:, and
770:Michael
725:notes:
669:Serbian
642:Serbian
544:Silesia
540:Moravia
536:Bohemia
496:Croatia
419:demonym
407:Bosnian
200:WPĀ refs
188:scholar
130:protect
125:history
75:New to
1077:Delete
974:Slavic
966:Slavic
882:Delete
861:Serbia
857:Russia
853:Poland
803:Europe
791:People
689:Serbia
615:ethnic
590:Poland
492:Croats
446:are a
172:Google
134:delete
50:delete
1052:WP:OR
677:Serbs
586:Poles
369:Slavs
231:WP:OR
215:JSTOR
176:books
151:views
143:watch
139:links
16:<
1066:talk
1042:talk
1034:Keep
1017:talk
956:talk
891:talk
811:talk
750:talk
707:The
609:The
580:The
542:and
514:The
486:The
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380:The
208:FENS
182:news
147:logs
121:talk
117:edit
367:of
222:TWL
155:ā (
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887:Nk
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Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.