860:
under SIGCOV - which is the same situation when I looked at other articles in The
Straits Times - lots of passing references but nothing that I would consider to have been significant. The same is, I'm afraid, true of the three links above as far as I can tell. The more significant coverage might be there. I think it can be for cricketers who don't qualify in terms of the sorts of matches they've played (and, for what it's worth, I think there are plenty of examples where cricketers who have played matches at the sort of level we usually look at
805:. AfD is not about the quality of an article, but I disagree with your assessment of the article. All of the content relates to his cricket career. "A useless article that tells us virtually nothing encyclopedic" that just happens to tell us who the national captain of Singapore cricket for 12 years was? Even if your cricket guideline has determined that no games below final level prior to an arbitrary date are notable, he meets
979:- "1.Have appeared as a player or umpire in at least one cricket match that is judged by a substantial source to have been played at the highest international or domestic level", so if Muruthi had played in a match at the top level within Singapore (requiring a substantial source of course) rather than captaining the national team he would be notable? of course this is all irrelevant if he meets
574:
1023:: One of the problems is that that's not what CRIN says. It's how most people tend to interpret it, but going purely on how it's actually written, someone playing in a national league of any kind could be argued to meet the criteria. It obviously needs rewriting, but, well, I've given up even trying to do that.
591:, so not just someone who played cricket for a long time, but someone who played for the Singapore national team for 32 years, some of that time as captain, which even for a relatively minor cricketing nation, together with the national newspaper sources, suggests he is notable enough for inclusion. --
770:
and were classified as minor matches. The inclusion for cricketers having played in a final prior to 2005 was the match being the decider for who would qualify for the world cup. So the games he played in are most definitely not covered by WP:CRIN (I helped come with the criteria). You won't find any
859:
I can't read most of those articles - it won't let me unless I'm at a particular library. I'll note initially that some are adverts, sore summaries etc... Of the summaries I scanned through and the few articles I could read, some looked tangental at best and I couldn't see anything that really falls
1001:
The highest domestic level in modern cricket is seen as being first-class / List A cricket, which is a status now conferred upon competitions by the ICC. The league in
Singapore has not attained this status. He has played in games for Singapore that if they happened today would qualify him, but the
892:
I'd agree that he does not meet CRIN, but does pass GNG. A conversation for another time and place, but is there any reason why Div 6 of the World
Cricket League since 2007 is presumed notable (this division features the 23rd - 28th best non-ODI teams), but the early ICC Trophies are not (featuring
970:
in a nutshell states "An athlete is presumed to be notable if the person has actively participated in a major amateur or professional competition", some editors may say that any games/competitions that a nation's cricket team is involved in is "major" so that being the captain of that team is
869:
All of which is very frustrating, but I'm really not sure whether or not we have someone here that passes the GNG. If there's a way to write the article in such a way as to show that then that'd be great, but until then I think I still
457:
I'll admit I know nothing about cricket, but he doesn't seem to meet the standards set for notability. Playing any sport for 45 years is worth of tip of the cap, but doesn't make him notable. Don't see the coverage needed to meet the
1063:
for this one. While they may fail WP:NCRIC, I think other factors need to be looked at, including their lengthy career and the fact they've captained the national side too. The article demonstrates this notability at the moment.
397:
I've update 2 of the
External Links based on the information provided below. I don't know how significant The Strait Times is, but there certainly seem to be multiple articles which mention Muruthi in detail, so he passes
228:
934:
3. appeared since 2005 in at least one match in any of the ICC World Cup
Qualifier, Women's Cricket World Cup Qualifier, ICC World Twenty20 Qualifier and ICC Women's World Twenty20 Qualifier competitions;
801:. The digitised Singapore newspapers show that he was covered in over 275 articles, in 16 of which his name was in the headline. He does not need to meet a specialised guideline before being assessed on
902:
582:"He's one of Singapore cricket's favourite sons. But in a few years' time, national cricketer Stacey Muruthi could be given another tag as one of the founding fathers of the future national senior team"
388:
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and goes on about two protégés (who are not notable), how he played club cricket for 45 years (unremarkable in cricketing terms at amatuer level), how he played minor matches outside of the scope of
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notable, other editors do not, but then it also states (in para 1) - "The article must provide reliable sources showing that the subject meets the general notability guideline
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guidelines state that cricket people qualify as the subject of an article in
Knowledge if they have "appeared prior to 2005 as a player or umpire in an ICC Trophy final".
655:. Yes, when those matches are minor and quite clearly fall out of the criteria of CRIN. Besides that, it's a useless article that tells us virtually nothing encyclopedic.
440:- if enough could be found to come close to meeting GNG then I'd be perfectly happy to retain this, but I think it's difficult to justify that level of coverage just now.
924:
1. appeared as a player in at least one cricket match that is judged by a substantial secondary source to have been played at the highest international or domestic level;
222:
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718:
shows that
Singapore played in 1979, 1982, and 1994, when this man was the Singapore national captain. So the games he has played in are most definitely covered by
313:
82:
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though no reason was given by the closer, so unclear exactly what the reasons were. The
External Links that look like articles that may confer notability under
188:
945:
5. appeared as a player for an
Associate team in a Twenty20 International match after 1 July 2018 in either a World T20, Global Qualifier, or Regional Final
779:
are empty - because despite playing at most ICC Trophy's, the matches were not notable. Besides that the article is a lot of "oh he's this and he's that".
128:
113:
983:(as the "keeper" say but the "deleters" deny), anyway, this is why i don't get involved in too many sportspeople afds as they can be quite confusing:)
766:, you've misunderstood WP:CRIN. He never appeared in a final of the ICC Trophy (Singapore have never reached one). Prior to 2005 matches did not carry
585:
267:, an unreferenced quote saying how good he is, and then goes on how the guy has a day-job. Not at all stand-out. Fails WP:CRIN and by extension
616:. Minor matches at amateur level aren't deemed notable. You might take part in the donkey derby for 32 years, but it doesn't make you notable.
634:
I think they go beyond routine coverage, and he played in the country's national team, and you're comparing that with a donkey derby? --
578:"Stacey Muruthi, who made his debut for the national team at the age of 16 and went on to play for the country for 32 years until 2001"
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589:: "Singapore’s captain Stacey Muruthi shared the limelight with Malaysia’s captain Suresh Menon to lift the Grimberg trophy."
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gives. There are hundreds of non-notable cricketer bios which I agree should not be kept, but this isn't one of them.
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qualify under the GNG). But I can't find it. I've certainly seen biographies with more significant coverage deleted.
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it is high time we put these crazy cricket bios in check. We need a much higher threshold for notability in cricket.
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because of the significant coverage of him as a player and captain at national level in
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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search (if they have they haven't made it clear), but I found several articles, e.g.
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If the article is poor, this is something that can be dealt with through editing. --
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975:(my emphasis) the sport specific criteria set forth below." looking at no. 1 of
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Relisting in order to provide time for presentation of new sources.
569:. I don't know if anyone who has commented here so far has done a
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and thought he did not meet it might like to look at NewspaperSG
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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2. appeared prior to 2005 as a player in an ICC Trophy final,
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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for me. Accordingly, I've changed this from Comment to Keep.
698:. The article is not written to show notability against the
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and the matches are outside the inclusion guidelines of
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Articles for deletion/Stacey Muruthi (2nd nomination)
475:- clearly notable per coverage, and sources. WP:GNG.
1043:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
553:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
379:are dead and I can't find them in Wayback Machine.
371:when this was nominated before, it was closed as
289:list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1117:). No further edits should be made to this page.
337:Note: This discussion has been included in the
312:Note: This discussion has been included in the
287:Note: This discussion has been included in the
966:, notability for sportspeople are often funny,
339:list of Singapore-related deletion discussions
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8:
314:list of Cricket-related deletion discussions
129:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
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694:I don't understand why you say he fails
259:Is this guy really notable? Coverage is
734:- subjects don't need to qualify for a
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83:Articles for deletion/Stacey Muruthi
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797:In that case, keep due to meeting
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608:. These sources and coverage are
777:Category:Gibraltarian cricketers
114:Introduction to deletion process
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
517:on account of subject failing
1:
968:Knowledge:Notability (sports)
1098:12:10, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
1073:08:15, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
1053:17:52, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
1012:11:11, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
1002:2005 cutoff rules them out.
993:10:56, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
957:11:42, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
903:00:16, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
884:06:31, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
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789:23:19, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
752:22:51, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
738:before they can qualify for
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665:23:23, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
644:21:24, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
626:21:17, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
601:20:03, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
560:19:56, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
531:13:06, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
510:07:58, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
412:22:46, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
67:00:38, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
773:Category:Israeli cricketers
485:23:44, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
468:19:01, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
450:15:33, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
433:23:38, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
389:11:12, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
356:01:28, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
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104:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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1107:Please do not modify it.
893:the top 16 such teams)?
32:Please do not modify it.
730:is not an extension of
712:ICC World Cup Qualifier
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78:AfDs for this article:
826:Those who considered
102:Articles for deletion
918:. Subject must have
726:. Apart from that,
716:Teams' performances
438:Tend towards delete
55:(non-admin closure)
548:Relisting comment:
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835:Blue Square Thing
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425:John Pack Lambert
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119:Guide to deletion
109:How to contribute
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833:. Pinging
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261:WP:ROUTINE
1111:talk page
1019:Spike 'em
1004:Spike 'em
949:The Gnome
895:Spike 'em
571:WP:BEFORE
523:The Gnome
404:Spike 'em
381:Spike 'em
59:DannyS712
37:talk page
1113:or in a
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977:WP:NCRIC
839:Sandals1
732:WP:NCRIC
724:WP:NCRIC
720:WP:NCRIC
714:, where
704:WP:NCRIC
700:WP:NCRIC
696:WP:NCRIC
540:Relisted
519:WP:NCRIC
492:- Fails
460:Sandals1
182:View log
123:glossary
39:or in a
1090:Mccapra
1084:Lugnuts
1068:Lugnuts
964:Comment
916:WP:CRIN
824:Comment
757:Comment
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606:Comment
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498:WP:CRIN
368:Comment
265:WP:CRIN
229:WP refs
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150:history
100:New to
981:WP:GNG
828:WP:GNG
807:WP:GNG
803:WP:GNG
799:WP:GNG
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736:WP:SNG
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671:Michig
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515:Delete
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377:WP:GNG
269:WP:GNG
201:Google
159:delete
912:Quote
862:don't
775:, or
354:, at
329:, at
304:, at
244:JSTOR
205:books
189:Stats
176:views
168:watch
164:links
16:<
1094:talk
1078:Keep
1061:Keep
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1008:talk
989:talk
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899:talk
880:talk
872:tend
847:talk
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692:Keep
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567:Keep
556:Tone
527:talk
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473:Keep
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458:GNG.
446:talk
429:talk
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385:talk
373:Keep
364:Keep
277:talk
237:FENS
211:news
172:logs
146:talk
142:edit
63:talk
50:keep
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Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.