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:Articles for deletion/Statue of Ruth Bader Ginsburg - Knowledge

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1023:, which is a mall. Gillie and Marc are known for putting up temporary sculptures on the premises of property developers, and ginning up tons of opportunist press coverage ("The Last Three" has significantly more press coverage than this sculpture, and we don't have an article for it), and sometimes generating pretty intense controversy for their kitsch, and lack of cultural sensitivity. And the vast majority of their sculptures are not of notable women, they are of an imaginary self portrait as a dog. If this sculpture is ultimately permanent, then maybe the article has a place, but almost none of their existing work is permanent. Until then it is Crystal Ball. Regretfully. 718:
sources theselves. The story is the same and therefore is only one source. That's what I gathered from what was said. In the case of this statue, the few sources all state the same information therefore they are the same. There is no independent viewpoints because it is so new. They all cover the same subject from the same vantage point using the same sources for their work. That's what I was saying. My suggestion was to give it time and then recreate the page adding the new sources and it will be soething to support for inclusion. --
1040:, Thank you clarifying this, and for taking the time to make changes to correct the errors that I unknowingly introduced. I was completely unaware of the issues you raise, and confused the two sculptures. I'm still somewhat confused, and am wondering if I should strike my comments above stating the the sculpture has already been built. Is the Cuomo sculpture built yet, or this one (which is the Gillie & Marc sculpture? That info will help in redefining my !vote accordingly. 1403:. The article now has multiple tertiary sources that provide coverage of the topic, though some of them duplicate each other. However, the statue hasn't been unveiled yet, so coverage of the statue will unsurprisingly be limited at the present time. As a result, I'm not opposed to merging this article for now, although that would likely end up unmerged anyway once it is unveiled. 755:, OK, we'll have to agree to disagree. I see similar coverage in multiple independent reliable sources as an indication that the topic is important or at least popular. If we've deemed the sources reliable and independent, we should assume good faith in the reporting; It's not groupthink, perhaps the reporting is similar because the subject is just not that complicated. ~ 443:- this article on a commemorative public sculpture of a notable woman. When I arrived at this AfD, the article already had three sigcov citations in reliable, verifiable news sources: the New York Times, ABC News, and CBS news. I added two more; it now has five. A quick BEFORE search brought up multiple other news sources. I agree with 618:
works. Several journals simultaneously publishing different articles does not always constitute multiple works, especially when the authors are relying on the same sources, and merely restating the same information. Similarly, a series of publications by the same author or in the same periodical is normally counted as one source." --
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can be gathered and multiple sources which cover the story in a significant way from different angles can be found. If we go by policy, the article should not be included. The statue does not receive notability just because the subject of the statue is notable. We all know this...notability is not inherited. --
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sculptures, then work with real estate companies to temporarily install them on their property for 3 to 9 months, then move them to another site. The official, permanent sculpture has not yet been created, and will likely take quite a long time to create. Cuomo announced the 23 member commission in October.
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multiple sources is considered sources that do not repeat the same information. They are reliable but they say the same thing, therefore they are counted as one source, not multiple as required by the notability guideline. It is not creating more work to draftify the article until all the information
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that has not happened yet. The unveiling ceremony will occur on March 15 because is the new official holiday in NYC, "Justice Ginsberg Day" (which is also her birthday). Therefore CRYSTALBALL does not apply. If the article was called "The unveiling of the statue of RGB" then it would apply, however,
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state "Lack of multiple sources suggests that the topic may be more suitable for inclusion in an article on a broader topic. It is common for multiple newspapers or journals to publish the same story, sometimes with minor alterations or different headlines, but one story does not constitute multiple
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I meant what I said as my interpretations of the above wording. If you have three articles, from CNN, ABC NEWS, and MSNBC, all reporting on the same subject, from the same POV and basically saying the same thing they can only be counted as one source for notability despite being multiple reliable
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sculpture has been made, but not installed (though some of their other work has been presented as rendererings, so it is unclear if this is a sophisticated digital render). I did a Autobiography/COI TNT on their article a few years ago, so learned quite a bit about their work. They make/conceive
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An easy solution would be to draftify the article rather than delete wholesale. It most likely will receive a lot of attention from media organizations over the next few months and especially once built. By then more sources could be added and the article could be expanded with more information.
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One can extrapolate from the information above that the notes are offering examples but that the same principle applies for all sources. If it is just the same story repeated over again or if the sources of the article are being pulled from the same sources themselves then it only counts as one
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There is no reason to have separate articles about every public honor a person receives, even if it has articles in the news. This content should be handled in the main article; if that is too large, create a page for memorials and hornors, not individual pages. 05:34, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
1386:, when you nominated the article it had only one reference. It now has 20, including from the New York Times, CNN, and PEOPLE, some of which you may believe are RSs devoted to the subject of this article. Do you still believe that it does not meet GNG, or does this soften your opinion? 694:, OK but all of this is not the same as your original blanket statement that if two sources have the same information, they should be considered one. What we're looking for is for sources to be independent of one another (and independent of the subject). I am aware of this. ~ 1330:, per discussion and obvious well-sourced notable topic with sources added since the nom. The statue is not "crystal", it exists, and is one of the few statues of real-life women in New York city. As Deb says, can't see the justification for deletion. 995:: First and foremost, there are two sculptures, this one and an official permanent monument near her birthplace -- that is the one that Cuomo spoke about, and that is the one that had the legit jury. So half of the sources that 201: 1082:, got it, thank you for straitening that out. It is also good to know the Gillie and Marc article and any associated articles on their specific works should be watched for continued PROMO moving forward. 1156:"This is not a guarantee that a topic will necessarily be handled as a separate, stand-alone page. Editors may use their discretion to merge or group two or more related topics into a single article." 1011:
refer to are not actually about this work, and I have removed the 4 citations that refer to this other sculpture. Second, it is not verifiable that this one is permanent, as I believe is implied by
1387: 1185: 1120: 195: 921:- The sculpture has already been built. It exists. It has been photographed. It is finished. It has been written about in multiple verifiable independent reliable sources. It is the 347:
just be recreated in a couple months, assuming no unveiling delay. Another editor has also posted a note on my talk page saying they plan to help recreate this article as well. ---
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per TimothyBlue. Notability of statues is not inherited from their subjects, and there is no indication of long-term, enduring coverage that would justify a separate article.
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unveiled to the public, there will be even more articles about what people think of it. It is a certainty that there will be more articles on this topic.
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Is the topic of an RBG statue notable? Yes, because if the statue gets cancelled, there will be even more articles about the cancellation. If it gets
860:. Will definitely receive widespread coverage at the unveiling - there's no reason to delete it now only to recreate the exact same page later.-- 1184:. We have to look at more than the refs in the article. I just added eight or nine more rs refs. There are a lot out there. Clearly passes GNG. 216: 1065:. This commission has Ginsburg's relatives, her colleagues, law clerks, the directors of the Brooklyn Museum, and El Museo del Barrio etc. 183: 1391: 1124: 126: 1369: 1174: 543:, I never expected otherwise. I just wanted to add the contextual differences between personal opinion and factual evidence. ;-) -- 657:
source for notability. It must be several reliable sources independent of each other, not only literally but also in content. --
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Non-notable at this moment. Article may come back after it is built if it's shown to have a large notability. Stay safe,
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is not notable separately from the individual it depicts, and details can be easily summarized in the biography.
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that it is purposeless to delete it, or even to draftify - that would just make additional work for editors like
40: 52:. It looks like the refs added towards the end convinced most people, but at best this would be no consensus. 962:
certainly will be notable once unveiled. Rather silly nom: "No claim to notability or duration of coverage".
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we're not keeping in main space right now, can the page be moved to draft space instead of deleted? This
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is not allowed because the article is being actively worked on (almost 50 edits in the last few days). ~
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Arguably passes GNG now & is sure to in a couple of months. Deletion would be purposeless. --
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who has offered to recreate it. Honestly, I am very surprised this was nominated for deletion.
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it pains me to vote to delete an article you started, and one about RBG, but the fact is that
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
319:. I'll just be recreating in a couple months unless another editor beats me to the punch. --- 35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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the sculpture DOES exist, it has been built, it is already notable. Look at the citations.
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It is in fact being installed permanently. A number of sources indicate that. Including
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Also, not to discount my fine arguments, but RBG was awesome.
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Adequately covered in highly regarded secondary sources.--
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because I can't see the justification for deletion.
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significant coverage in multiple reliable sources. ~
312:the article and let it snowball but otherwise just 43:). No further edits should be made to this page. 1432:). No further edits should be made to this page. 806:please see my comment below. Thanks in advance! 273:Note: This discussion has been included in the 258:Note: This discussion has been included in the 243:Note: This discussion has been included in the 232:No claim to notability or duration of coverage. 275:list of New York-related deletion discussions 222: 8: 390:Knowledge does have a notability guideline ( 110:Help, my article got nominated for deletion! 272: 257: 245:list of Women-related deletion discussions 242: 260:list of Arts-related deletion discussions 1388:2603:7000:2143:8500:DC79:4CC3:DC44:71FA 1186:2603:7000:2143:8500:8C2A:84CA:D15B:3FEC 1121:2603:7000:2143:8500:DC79:4CC3:DC44:71FA 7: 24: 1359:of the statue, but as of now the 1019:'s argument. It is installed at 95:Introduction to deletion process 1349:Ruth Bader Ginsburg#Recognition 1250:Ruth Bader Ginsburg#Recognition 1148:Ruth Bader Ginsburg#Recognition 786:Clearly a case of CRYSTALBALL. 436:Ruth Bader Ginsburg#Recognition 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 1: 993:things are not what they seem 119:Statue of Ruth Bader Ginsburg 71:Statue of Ruth Bader Ginsburg 1413:02:12, 22 January 2021 (UTC) 1396:18:38, 21 January 2021 (UTC) 1375:17:54, 21 January 2021 (UTC) 1340:12:34, 20 January 2021 (UTC) 1323:19:20, 18 January 2021 (UTC) 1306:16:05, 18 January 2021 (UTC) 1285:07:49, 18 January 2021 (UTC) 1262:20:52, 17 January 2021 (UTC) 1237:23:36, 18 January 2021 (UTC) 1216:16:28, 17 January 2021 (UTC) 1194:08:34, 17 January 2021 (UTC) 1129:17:37, 21 January 2021 (UTC) 1092:22:21, 16 January 2021 (UTC) 1075:21:30, 16 January 2021 (UTC) 1050:21:18, 16 January 2021 (UTC) 1033:20:57, 16 January 2021 (UTC) 972:18:18, 16 January 2021 (UTC) 955:15:32, 16 January 2021 (UTC) 937:14:53, 16 January 2021 (UTC) 911:12:33, 16 January 2021 (UTC) 894:06:45, 16 January 2021 (UTC) 870:03:24, 16 January 2021 (UTC) 853:20:21, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 837:18:31, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 816:14:54, 16 January 2021 (UTC) 791:17:58, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 765:15:47, 19 January 2021 (UTC) 748:15:12, 19 January 2021 (UTC) 704:14:46, 19 January 2021 (UTC) 687:14:13, 19 January 2021 (UTC) 648:14:06, 19 January 2021 (UTC) 598:15:30, 16 January 2021 (UTC) 573:16:24, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 528:16:09, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 511:15:32, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 461:14:57, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 424:13:52, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 382:13:34, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 363:18:08, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 335:13:24, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 304:12:51, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 282:11:39, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 267:11:39, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 252:11:39, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 237:11:39, 15 January 2021 (UTC) 65:10:10, 23 January 2021 (UTC) 960:Keep/Merge to subject's bio 85:(AfD)? Read these primers! 1449: 977:Delete, Draftify, or Merge 1351:per those above, and per 919:Comment for clarification 827:Fails in passing WP:GNG. 1422:Please do not modify it. 32:Please do not modify it. 1204:for an unbuilt statue. 518:, I stand by my !vote. 1057:, It appears that the 339:May I please request, 1365:Ivanvector's squirrel 1021:City Point (Brooklyn) 83:Articles for deletion 316:Ruth Bader Ginsburg 308:Silly. I say just 1165:comment added by 884: 744: 683: 644: 569: 507: 420: 284: 269: 254: 100:Guide to deletion 90:How to contribute 63: 1440: 1282: 1275: 1213: 1208: 1178: 1018: 1010: 990: 987:Another Believer 882: 805: 743: 738: 734: 729: 724: 682: 677: 673: 668: 663: 643: 638: 634: 629: 624: 568: 563: 559: 554: 549: 506: 501: 497: 492: 487: 449:Another Believer 419: 414: 410: 405: 400: 358: 351: 350:Another Believer 330: 323: 322:Another Believer 301: 296: 227: 226: 212: 160: 142: 80: 62: 60: 53: 34: 1448: 1447: 1443: 1442: 1441: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1436: 1430:deletion review 1372: 1353:WP:NOTINHERITED 1278: 1271: 1211: 1206: 1160: 1146:selectively to 1059:Gillie and Marc 1012: 996: 984: 981:Gillie and Marc 799: 739: 730: 725: 720: 678: 669: 664: 659: 639: 630: 625: 620: 564: 555: 550: 545: 502: 493: 488: 483: 440:Gillie and Marc 415: 406: 401: 396: 361: 356: 349: 333: 328: 321: 299: 294: 169: 133: 117: 114: 77: 74: 56: 54: 48:The result was 41:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 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Index

Knowledge:Articles for deletion
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Sandstein
10:10, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Statue of Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Statue of Ruth Bader Ginsburg
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