2454:, both here and on the talk page. But CRYSTAL really is about sourcing, and there's actually been an expansion of sourcing with articles in the likes of the NY Times and the like. It's okay to have sourced commentary about potentially future events, and to the extent this is about a meme, it's something that's happening right now. (Also, in reply to ILIKEIT accusations, at risk of pointing out the obvious, there's sourced content that meets
80:
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2631:. It's not uncommon at all for hot topics to get a bunch of votes like that which amount to strawpolling. In the end, the policy-based discussion mostly revolves around outright deletion or just having the redirect to Area 51, which unfortunately the closer has to take a bit more effort than normal to sort through.
1340:. When this did make the news, it was really more of an "and finally" type of item. Those usually fall under oddities, heartwarming stories, etc. that get news coverage, but aren't really significant news coverage. That context is in the 10YT guidance about recentism. NOTNEWS policy also specifically says,
2241:
as has been pointed out several times above,this event is either notable and deserves an article now, in which case it should stay, it's not notable enough for an article on its own in which case it should have a mention, or it might be notable in the future in which case an article should be written
1428:
Its not an event, it was a joke that some people took seriously enough to actually want to attend (and in fact the originator has all but said that no one should turn up), nor how many of those were serious and will actually bother to turn up. It like me saying now I am organizing A "Keep The Grand
2500:
we do essentially non-existing things all the time, so why not here. There's a bunch of votes here, in either direction, that comment on whether or not this will happen, how stupid it is, etc.--sounds LIKE A BUNCH OF BOOMERS BEFORE NAP TIME. These things don't matter--what matters is coverage, and
2428:
or an actual event. The solution is easy: just give it a little time. If this event blows over, then merge it to Area 51, no big deal. If this event actually happens, there'll already be an existing article to build off of. Weirder, seemingly more trivial stuff has become real events worthy of
2328:
IMO you make exactly the argument for why we shouldn't keep it. Knowledge is not KnowYourMeme or similar sites, it's not supposed to be a repository of every whacky internet fad. Part of the reason it's not taken seriously or given credence as legitimate is because of too much attention given to
2035:
but preserve page history. The article does not meet notability requirements at present. While there has been a lot of media coverage, this coverage has been regurgitating the same limited information ad nauseum. There is nothing to say that isn’t already summarized in the Area 51 article. The
2040:
exception is most appropriate for rapidly evolving events that will almost certainly meet notability requirements within the near future (often before the AfD is scheduled to close). Here, the Area 51 coverage is not evolving and its far from certain that it will meet notability requirements.
452:
As I just pointed out it was a stub in both versions when the nom actually occurred. If you mean very recent edits, they wasn't gaining consensus, so it shouldn't be any surprise it was removed. I restored it back to as much of a status quo there can be for a newer article in terms of
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sometimes anticipated events do get articles. I made no claims about significance or actual equivalence, merely that the article is written appropriately for its tentative status. Replace with whatever other example you find less offensive and the argument still stands, humor aside.
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in some form (even if it is just in the page history or as a draft). It is plausible that this article will have lasting significance; there is absolutely no benefit to striking every trace of this article off the face of
Knowledge and risk having to rewrite it from scratch.
562:(it sounds like you're really just asking for a redirect instead). In that case though who's really going to search for "Storm Area 51, They Can't Stop All of Us"? It's fairly nonsensical search term, and at best, we're maybe going to get people searching for "Area 51 raid".
2329:
trivial things. You literally just compared a joke internet event to a presidential election. We KNOW the latter is going to happen, and it will have an effect on a lot of lives. This doesn't compare at all, and treating equally makes this whole site look like a joke.
1254:, I agree that the keep comments that exclusively evaluate the article against GNG should not be accorded much weight. However, I disagree that there is "no justification in policy" for keeping the article—do you have a response to my !vote below that is based on
386:. Kingofaces has stubified the article while the discussion is on-going and removed almost all of the content. I reverted him once on procedural grounds, he reverted me and accused me of edit warring (???) but for any newcomers, please see the article history.
364:. No indication of lasting encyclopedic significance without people just speculating, and actual notability likely won't be established just by news sources reporting on it if at all until after the event. The title also doesn't seem like a useful redirect/merge.
1869:
you're not wrong & that might be a valid argument here. I was responding to Sir
Trenzalore's spcific point above because what he said is NOT valid. Doesn't mean all the other arguments here are, some of them DO meet the criteria at the guideline I cited.
1272:
EVENTCRITERIA hadn't really been discussed yet, but it fails bullet 1 (a form of 10YT mentioned above). Right now, it's just an internet joke without any indication of any real-world lasting significance. Bullet two is more focused on reanalysis afterwards, as
1976:. The Facebook joke does not form a substantial part of the conspiracies around Area 51—rather, the joke is built upon the premise that millions of people are already familiar with much more significant conspiracy theories about the site. It is therefore
2041:
Honestly, this article is just too threadbare to keep hanging around for two-months on the chance that it will meet notability requirements after
September 20. If it meets notability requirements then, the article can be recreated from its page history.
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Since I made the above post, the news coverage has both continued and diversified. At this precise moment in time, there is a lot that can be said about this topic. I think lasting significance may still be an issue, but I'm more comfortable invoking
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with more guidance on that. So far, this has only been a relative blip in news reporting and hasn't established real GNG. The question isn't is it's covered, but to what degree and depth it is. There's some other good guidance out there like
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Although this may be just a meme right now, I expect a lot of serious people to come to Area 51 and demand “to see them aliens”. I suggest we wait until
September 21 to see if we should delete the article and leave it as a footnote in
2113:
This is one of the most popular
Internet memes of the year, which has had an effect on the local economy outside of the base as all the businesses in the area are preparing for upcoming visitors. I'll do my best to expand the article.
1233:) even addressing those policies between directly contradicting NOTNEWS policy and relevant guidance on what is actually notable under GNG. The guidance for these kinds of things is to mention them briefly at a relevant article (
2784:
I understand the not news argument, but this is being covered a little more than a typical news story or meme. It's incredibly well-sourced thus far whether people actually like it or not. I'm not really against a merge either.
649:
per nom. All the important info is already on the Area 51 page. If the event comes and passes and newsworthy events occur, then this page could be reinstated. Don't redirect as it isn't a particularly helpful search phrase.
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Just because their is a majority for keep so far does not mean that it will be kept. There is some comments which is just adding no new info into this discussion which isn't something that we would want to pursuit.
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in addition to considering if page deletions were needed. Saying I reduced it to a stub as a "procedural note" when that's how it originally was without new content gaining consensus isn't really appropriate here.
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as an event considered notable by many primary news sources as well as the USAF. Also notable for crossover between "Internet culture" and "real life", and mainstreaming "Naruto" who is apparently a fast runner.
2385:
Personally I don't think it will happen because it's just a stupid way to get their fifteen minutes of fame. If this is kept, can we at least rename it to "Raiding Area 51 meme" or something shorter than this.
983:
This event may generate substantial media coverage on and around the date of the event, as some individuals have already made legitimate plans to travel to Area 51. Delete if the "meme" fizzles out.
52:. There seems to be a consensus that this is more than simply a run-of-the-mill news story, and that the copious sourcing in the current version of the article is sufficient to demonstrate notability.
537:
at least at this point. If it happens and gets major coverage, then maybe a separate article, but right now, this is a meme, a valid search term (hence the merge) but not needed a separate article. --
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This may be controversial, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the 2020 Presidential
Election is probably a real event that will actually happen. I don't think it's a short-lived joke.
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or kept. I can't really think of a reason to delete this versus, say any other page about an internet meme. That being said, though, its status as a stub is likely not going away any time soon.
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as the event hasn't happened and isn't itself notable (GNG doesn't reach that low). All the keep arguments I've seen are variations of OTHERCRAPEXISTS and ILIKEIT, neither of which are valid.
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is still policy, and people need to actually gain consensus for new content being added in where problems have been pointed out as part of normal talk page discussion and consensus building.
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1398:. However, I think the broad range of coverage in American, British, and Australian media—not to mention the sheer number of people who have responded to the event—is enough that it meets
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as events unfold as is currently done. One can discuss redirects, but there is no justification in policy for saying to keep it outright at this time unless we want to scuttle policies.
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1225:, giving pretty solid PAG grounding for deletion aside from the search term discussion, so that can't really be ignored. There hasn't really been anything much from keeps in terms of
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2424:. This is a classic issue Knowledge has: some breaking piece of news happens, and it's not clear whether it's a 15 minutes of fame deal that should be justly deleted as
2250:. IMO that's why the best argument is "a note on the Area 51 page THEN if something happens you make a new article." Logical and in compliance with standard practices.
1410:, since it's not really possible to evaluate the event's lasting significance before it has taken place, and I'm willing to reconsider my !vote after later discussion. –
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2015:
a joke, it's already faded out. Keeping the article would just be recentism and it would certainly be deleted six months from now when somebody brings it back to AFD.
2153:, there is no reason to not have an article for something which is getting significantly more media coverage, even if that coverage is somewhat repetitive as of yet.
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If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list.
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because of the frankly massive attention it's received. Though a recent event that also happens to be an internet meme, I feel it should either be merged back into
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of a
Facebook event that has attracted the interest of millions of people, and there are definitely going to be people who search Knowledge using the full title. –
1790:
It would be premature to delete the article now when the event has yet to occur. Whether or not it will be newsworthy can only be determined after the aftermath.
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This event is spawning others such as the woodchip pile in
Tasmania (!?). Anyway, this sort of thing has been done before and it made a lasting impact – see
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meme of 2019, with plenty of reliable sources describing the phenomenon and also starting somewhat of a craze, inspiring similar events around the globe.
2299:, the article *is* written to make clear both that the event hasn't happen yet and that its eventuality is uncertain. Can't help but think of article on
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recently compared to the 15-20k this article got in the last two days when readers realize the same information was already present at the Area 51 page.
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since the article was created. I would suggest keeping it in view of the amount of attention the article been's receiving (and will receive later on).
894:, as a nonsensical search term. I would keep the information that is on the Area 51 page for now. But not notable on its own for a standalone article.
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2011:, but I believe that is the incorrect standard to use, as the sources all make it clear that no actual event is being planned. It's just a joke.
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but also because there's not much to write about it so it doesn't need an article. This may change if incidents occur in relation to the joke. —
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1474:. This could be worthy of keeping, but as of now, there isn't enough information in the article to keep. For now, it could be merged into
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policy. Either it is notable now, or it is not. Articles should never be created in the hopes they may be notable someday in the future.
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with all the other earth-shattering-at-the-time-but-later-forgotten memes. but not a stand alone article. It should also be removed from
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Part of my rationale in my delete nom is that there's nothing really to merge that isn't already at the current area 51 article section
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What part of that is not clear? The nom made a notability-based argument, and I responded by referring to GNG. I don't find the nom's
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The main event hasn't occurred yet and the coverage could be contained in the Area 51 article's history section until the
September.
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widespread coverage and has led to a significant response socially, so as a cultural phenomena meets significant coverage criteria,
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just another joke, when its pushing up the daises and has achieved the status of the
Norwegian Blue then it might be a notable Joke.
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The article was essentially a stub in either version even before I nominated, and there's very little functional difference in the
2479:- There's pages on Knowledge for memes that have garnered much less popularity and media attention. So far, this has proved to be
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While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion.
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notable per sourcing NPR New York Times. We do not make subjects notable. But we allow them to have an article when they are.
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Not if people delete relevant material about the fact this is a piece of satire, no. At this time it fails NPOV, and possibly
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nomination. General article cleanup was going to happen regardless of AfD or not in terms of redundant or tangential content.
1943:- its a repetition of the comments above, but I agree that overwhelming coverage in the media allows for the article to meet
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Page views are not a keep justification, but that said, it's all likely spillover traffic from the Area 51 article that had
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This is the talk page not the official article, and my reference was for example—it was intended just to demonstrate that
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962:. That's as much coverage as this joke warrants at the moment. Anything more is UNDUE. Article also fails NOTNEWS and the
461:(independent of saying it's actually notable). That's all after responding to requests to do general cleanup like that at
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Notable and appropriately sourced. Starting to have tangible implications (e.g. on local economy surrounding Area 51)
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1713:. (At best, it will become newsworthy when some folks do show up and discover trying to cross the desert is itself a
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for example. If a subject gets RS coverage the subject is notable. We also cover similar meme phenomena like this:
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
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Not wholly sure it has not already fissled out now the initial "LOOK LOONIES, LOLS!!!" media reaction is over.
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WP covers things that are notable. And once the thing is notable it is always notable...even if it fizzles
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story coupled with NOTNEWS policy again in terms of just simply being widely covered not indicating GNG.
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would disqualify this article from inclusion; the subject does not fall under "routine news reporting".
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2595:, just wanted to point out a consensus seems to be building. Please let me know if my numbers are off.
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The difference is that happened (this may not) and was not a joke. In addition it may already be dead.
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Indeed. There are a lot of keep comments the closer will have to outright dismiss here in terms of
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until enough pertinent information and references can be included to make a stand-alone page.
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I meant the version of the article immediately before you reduced it to a 4-5 sentence stub.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
2303:—if the article is mostly about the media coverage and response, I think it's fine for now. —
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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our bar is generally so low that this passes in flying colors: the coverage is there. So
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is a policy that actively discourages this kind of thinking in notability discussions.
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is not a reason for deletion. Like it or not (and I don't like it), this is notable.
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duchy of Fenmwick British" event, and people deciding to take it as a serious event.
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page suffices for now. As said if it blows up, this page can always be recreated.
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A notable event do to the massive amount of reliable sources covering this thing.
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that is stupid as hell. Not "i like it", more like "it's stupid but sourced.")
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The fair use image on the page should also be deleted if this page gets deleted.
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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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Knowledge:Arguments_to_avoid_in_deletion_discussions#Arguments_without_arguments
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Enough attention for 3m people to 'join in' and News coverage by many stations.
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as newsworthy joke, Meets GNG, Will be even more newsworthy if people go there!
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article, where it is already covered. There is no indication this has lasting
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The combination is NOTNEWS policy when you look in the lens of something like
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given that this topic continues to develop. Regardless, I still believe that
666:- It’s premature. Hasn’t happened yet (and May never happen). Promotional?
2674:
I'm just going to have to believe you somehow missed the part where I wrote
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This isn't notable on its own, but it has garnered a lot of media coverage.
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encyclopedic significance and how it's covered by news that's lacking. The
1406:. There's still a part of me that thinks the article might be a case of
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that has some parallels here. Tl;dr, my NOTNEWS comments are based in
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it should be mentioned on the area 51 article, this is just a fad.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Many of those keeps will be essentially tossed out in terms of
1499:: As per above, article is noteworthy and has media coverage.
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105:(agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments,
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This event is just as well-covered in the Area 51 article.
1394:. I understand the calls for deletion/redirection based on
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then... but there is no "wait and see" on Knowledge. See
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Meets GNG. I don't see any PAG-based reason to delete it.
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for now and wait and see what happens on the date. Then
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Why deletion? Notable event, people talk about that. --
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2509:, if he can stop being all wise and mature for a day.
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2505:, and I'm not just saying that cause I'm going. With
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article handles it just fine though when it comes to
1099:. Definitely enough coverage. I just read a lengthy
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article, and there are plenty of other sources. ---
795:since it has no lasting significance or impact. -
434:. See article talk page for further discussion.
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
2814:). No further edits should be made to this page.
2759:As stated in the nom, it was put up here due to
2579:As I've so far counted (may be wrong), I see 31
1064:but keep it mentioned on the main Area 51 page.
721:Note: This discussion has been included in the
702:Note: This discussion has been included in the
683:Note: This discussion has been included in the
512:- Keep, or redirect as a useful search term to
1806:That's the exact opposite of the principle of
1528:according to the specificity of the subject.
1043:this page SPECIFICALLY, but a mention on the
723:list of Internet-related deletion discussions
346:
125:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
95:among Knowledge contributors. Knowledge has
8:
913:Brief mention on the Area 51 article and/or
226:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
2189:. There seems to be enough media coverage.
704:list of Events-related deletion discussions
685:list of Nevada-related deletion discussions
1221:policy as well as recentism, specifically
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934:This has received much media attention. -
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99:regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
2007:- It's been suggested that it might pass
1302:I'm not understanding which criterion in
2301:2020 United States presidential election
1697:as a meme which is only relevant to the
1217:The nom and others explicitly mentioned
235:Storm Area 51, They Can't Stop All of Us
119:on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.
70:Storm Area 51, They Can't Stop All of Us
2450:. Some !delete voters have brought up
960:Area_51#Facebook_event_to_storm_Area_51
560:Area_51#Facebook_event_to_storm_Area_51
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1126:. I also think this is important. --
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2403:Knowledge is not Know Your Meme.
2295:. For all of the arguments about
1711:anticipate it becoming newsworthy
787:This deserves a few sentences in
455:content that actually has made it
2069:this article should be preserved
1607:. In case nobody notices, there
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211:Introduction to deletion process
78:
1980:to have a section on it there.
1390:. I believe the subject passes
576:It's not nonsensical: It's the
432:This is what I was referring to
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
68:
1:
1656:mass trespass of Kinder Scout
1631:over 500,000 daily page views
1609:have been this many pageviews
115:on the part of others and to
2418:Wait 6 months / keep for now
1480:Morriswa (Charlotte Allison)
457:through some scrutiny under
1318:argument to be persuasive.
201:(AfD)? Read these primers!
2831:
2718:It should be on Knowledge.
2149:If we have an article for
915:List of Internet phenomena
890:Actually, on 2nd thought,
789:List of Internet phenomena
2795:21:36, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
2773:20:17, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
2751:13:27, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
2728:22:13, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
2705:23:23, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
2695:(Don't forget to share a
2663:23:15, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
2641:20:17, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
2619:02:35, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
2609:(Don't forget to share a
2589:delete / merge / redirect
2572:23:29, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
2558:21:26, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
2535:19:21, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
2519:14:44, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
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2260:16:48, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
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1957:02:35, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
1936:01:43, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
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1880:18:59, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
1862:17:24, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
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1800:21:33, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
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1762:19:19, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
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1727:18:59, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1686:17:43, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1668:17:38, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1643:16:15, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1621:16:04, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1600:12:15, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1582:. Revisit after Sep 20.--
1560:15:04, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1538:12:12, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1513:10:29, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1488:05:07, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1463:01:07, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1439:08:59, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1420:22:21, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1371:22:06, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
1332:21:55, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
1291:15:04, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
1268:22:46, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1247:22:33, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1202:21:45, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1181:20:00, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1152:17:22, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1135:15:17, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1119:14:11, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1091:12:24, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1074:05:51, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1057:03:28, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1036:03:08, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
1003:01:35, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
976:23:37, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
951:22:25, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
927:21:55, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
917:but not its own article.
904:21:49, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
884:21:45, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
860:21:18, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
839:19:08, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
829:(Don't forget to share a
805:18:56, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
776:21:43, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
762:As mentioned in the nom,
754:19:50, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
734:17:54, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
715:17:53, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
696:17:53, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
676:18:26, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
659:17:46, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
638:17:54, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
617:17:44, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
590:23:19, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
572:21:43, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
550:17:43, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
526:17:42, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
505:17:29, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
476:07:28, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
444:07:13, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
426:07:02, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
396:06:39, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
374:17:26, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
64:06:34, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
2804:Please do not modify it.
1546:"Wait and see" violates
32:Please do not modify it.
2526:- Per above arguments.
1721:The Hand That Feeds You
846:to relevant section of
157:; accounts blocked for
127:single-purpose accounts
97:policies and guidelines
2272:policy much less GNG.
1754:Radioactive Pixie Dust
1736:Radioactive Pixie Dust
1361:treatment of sources.
2060:Weak Keep or redirect
199:Articles for deletion
2587:, opposed to 18 for
2565:Per above comments.
1964:on the article but
1732:Delete and redirect
109:by counting votes.
88:not a majority vote
2429:articles before.
2170:It's yuge!!! ----
1310:explicitly states
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1972:as this violates
1709:. We also cannot
1613:JaventheAldericky
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1066:HurricaneGeek2002
1005:
989:comment added by
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510:Keep or redirect
216:Guide to deletion
206:How to contribute
190:
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113:assume good faith
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2733:Merge and Delete
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968:Ad Orientem
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320:free images
60:| express _
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2761:WP:NOTNEWS
2670:HawkAussie
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2452:WP:CRYSTAL
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2270:WP:NOTNEWS
2244:WP:TOOSOON
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852:Highway 89
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2808:talk page
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273:views
265:watch
261:links
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