242:. The only coverage I can find of this film is listings in film catalogs and promotion for the film. EDIT: To clarify a bit here, there are seven sources in this article. After a search I was able to find one more (Varia), although it is only mentioned once. That gives us 8 candidate sources. Of these, two are promotional (brochure, and De Locomotief). Two are film catalogs (Kristanto 2007, Biran 1979) and so do not establish notability, one is a list of an actor's filmography. This leaves two sources, Vara and Kentaja. The Vara article seems to only mention the film in passing but lets assume generously it passes. The last source is... weird
448:, point 1 (Delpher may have listings of screenings if Allan wishes to verify, but their coverage is spotty for the 1950s). The fact that Indonesia has not digitized its magazines to the same extent as western nations is not evidence of a lack of notability; it is evidence that any sources available are going to be offline and difficult to verify for anyone without access to Perpusnas or Sinematek Indonesia. —
466:
As for the catalog sources: Biran 1979 is a compendium of brief biographies that he compiled for a government project, and is used here for citing biographic data (what the main stars did subsequently). Kristanto 2007 (and
Filmindonesia.or.id, which is a digital continuation of the catalogue) is the
401:
is a solid source. I also think the nominator is being too hasty in dismissing the
Kentjana review (New Film: Supir Istimewa). For one thing, the date isn't three years off — both the film and the review are dated 1954. And more importantly, the nominator's statement "I wouldn't trust it, especially
410:
explains why offline sources are just as good as sources that are currently convenient to access online. The editor who added that information to the article apparently had access to a 1954 Indonesian film review, and I have no reason to suspect that editor of inventing the source out of thin air.
373:
So, I actually looked at Biran 1979, and it only provides tangential coverage of the movie in two spots, both of which are talking about the careers of people who were involved in the other works. I don't have access to
Kristanto 2007, but given its similar topical focus, I'm not very confident it
282:
here. I went over every single source here, in addition to looking at google books, and news. If you have any concerns about any source in particular that you may think is notable, please feel free to raise it, and I will tell you what my opinion on it was.
444:- When I get home from Toronto I can see if I still have my scans of the 1950s articles, but when I wrote the article I did have them. Furthermore, Persari distributed its films nationally, and frankly that alone satisfies
207:
467:
most recent printed edition of
Kristanto's film catalogue, and is used for uncontroversial information that is also supported by primary sources. Neither is used to ascribe notability to the film. —
264:. Nominator has failed to explain how the existing sources in the article do not demonstrate notability -- this is a common pattern with their nominations for Indonesian film articles.
309:
164:
201:
305:
96:
111:
425:
Sorry about
Kentjana, I screwed up the date there. Will strike that. I was more worried about the lack of catalog number than about the lack of access.
301:
406:
has been evaluated before as a reliable source or not, so "I wouldn't trust it" is a personal feeling rather than a rationale. Furthermore,
137:
132:
91:
84:
17:
141:
518:
any sources available are going to be offline and difficult to verify for anyone without access to
Perpusnas or Sinematek Indonesia
124:
222:
105:
101:
189:
486:
564:
40:
489:
in a zip file, if anyone wishes to consult it (I also found an excellent image of Netty
Herawaty behind the scenes on
168:
183:
543:
430:
379:
348:
288:
251:
547:
524:
502:
476:
457:
434:
420:
383:
368:
352:
338:
318:
292:
279:
273:
255:
179:
66:
498:
472:
453:
244:(describing a film released 3 years before as a "new film"?) and frankly I wouldn't trust it, especially
62:
36:
229:
358:
328:
407:
539:
426:
416:
375:
344:
284:
247:
215:
128:
239:
80:
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
559:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
54:
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
535:
494:
468:
449:
195:
58:
445:
560:
521:
363:
333:
269:
343:
I'm not sure what two books specifically you are referring to here, could you elaborate?
412:
313:
120:
72:
158:
265:
402:
since it is unverifiable" is not backed up by policy. I don't believe that
520:
is a time thing - due to my access to materials - weekly at the most.
493:, so definitely worth the dive into these old rephotographs). —
555:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
52:. Nomination withdrawn with no remaining deletion proposals.
154:
150:
146:
516:- per Chris explanations above. My capacity to access
214:
228:
399:What and Who: Film Figures in Indonesia, 1926–1978
327:: I see no reason to dismiss the 2 books quoted. -
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
567:). No further edits should be made to this page.
300:Note: This discussion has been included in the
8:
112:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
299:
534:Original nom here, changing my mind per
238:There is no evidence this film meets
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
24:
304:lists for the following topics:
97:Introduction to deletion process
1:
357:Kristanto 2007, Biran 1979. -
87:(AfD)? Read these primers!
584:
246:since it is unverifiable.
548:17:33, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
525:05:07, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
503:20:53, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
477:04:39, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
458:04:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
435:21:26, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
421:21:16, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
397:: I think the Biran book
384:21:26, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
369:21:07, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
353:20:41, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
339:20:10, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
319:18:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
293:16:29, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
274:15:19, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
256:14:36, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
67:22:22, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
557:Please do not modify it.
538:'s excellent work here.
32:Please do not modify it.
169:edits since nomination
374:will be much better.
85:Articles for deletion
55:(non-admin closure)
481:I have copied the
278:Please don't cast
321:
102:Guide to deletion
92:How to contribute
57:
575:
491:Lewat Djam Malam
366:
361:
336:
331:
316:
302:deletion sorting
233:
232:
218:
162:
144:
82:
53:
34:
583:
582:
578:
577:
576:
574:
573:
572:
571:
565:deletion review
364:
359:
334:
329:
314:
175:
135:
119:
116:
79:
76:
48:The result was
41:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
581:
579:
570:
569:
551:
550:
540:Allan Nonymous
536:Chris Woodrich
528:
527:
510:
509:
508:
507:
506:
505:
495:Chris Woodrich
469:Chris Woodrich
461:
460:
450:Chris Woodrich
439:
438:
437:
427:Allan Nonymous
392:
391:
390:
389:
388:
387:
386:
376:Allan Nonymous
345:Allan Nonymous
322:
297:
296:
295:
285:Allan Nonymous
248:Allan Nonymous
236:
235:
172:
121:Supir Istimewa
115:
114:
109:
99:
94:
77:
75:
73:Supir Istimewa
70:
46:
45:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
580:
568:
566:
562:
558:
553:
552:
549:
545:
541:
537:
533:
530:
529:
526:
523:
519:
515:
512:
511:
504:
500:
496:
492:
488:
484:
480:
479:
478:
474:
470:
465:
464:
463:
462:
459:
455:
451:
447:
443:
440:
436:
432:
428:
424:
423:
422:
418:
414:
409:
405:
400:
396:
393:
385:
381:
377:
372:
371:
370:
367:
362:
356:
355:
354:
350:
346:
342:
341:
340:
337:
332:
326:
323:
320:
317:
311:
307:
303:
298:
294:
290:
286:
281:
277:
276:
275:
271:
267:
263:
260:
259:
258:
257:
253:
249:
245:
241:
231:
227:
224:
221:
217:
213:
209:
206:
203:
200:
197:
194:
191:
188:
185:
181:
178:
177:Find sources:
173:
170:
166:
160:
156:
152:
148:
143:
139:
134:
130:
126:
122:
118:
117:
113:
110:
107:
103:
100:
98:
95:
93:
90:
89:
88:
86:
81:
74:
71:
69:
68:
64:
60:
56:
51:
44:
42:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
556:
554:
531:
517:
513:
490:
487:Google Drive
482:
441:
403:
398:
394:
365:(Mushy Yank)
335:(Mushy Yank)
324:
261:
243:
237:
225:
219:
211:
204:
198:
192:
186:
176:
78:
49:
47:
31:
28:
360:My, oh my!
330:My, oh my!
202:free images
59:Atlantic306
50:speedy keep
522:JarrahTree
485:source to
408:WP:OFFLINE
280:aspersions
561:talk page
413:Toughpigs
315:Spiderone
310:Indonesia
37:talk page
563:or in a
483:Kentjana
404:Kentjana
240:WP:NFILM
165:View log
106:glossary
39:or in a
208:WP refs
196:scholar
138:protect
133:history
83:New to
446:WP:NFO
180:Google
142:delete
532:Keep:
266:Jfire
223:JSTOR
184:books
159:views
151:watch
147:links
16:<
544:talk
514:Keep
499:talk
473:talk
454:talk
442:Keep
431:talk
417:talk
395:Keep
380:talk
349:talk
325:Keep
308:and
306:Film
289:talk
270:talk
262:Keep
252:talk
216:FENS
190:news
155:logs
129:talk
125:edit
63:talk
230:TWL
163:– (
546:)
501:)
475:)
456:)
433:)
419:)
382:)
351:)
312:.
291:)
272:)
254:)
210:)
167:|
157:|
153:|
149:|
145:|
140:|
136:|
131:|
127:|
65:)
542:(
497:(
471:(
452:(
429:(
415:(
378:(
347:(
287:(
268:(
250:(
234:)
226:·
220:·
212:·
205:·
199:·
193:·
187:·
182:(
174:(
171:)
161:)
123:(
108:)
104:(
61:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.