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particular time as "Islamic" because the dominant cultural force was Islam, is wrong-headed in the extreme. Again, I have to come back to the example of the theory of evolution - it was developed by a man who at one point trained to be a priest, and the dominant cultural force in
Britain at that point was Christianity. But the theory of evolution is not "Christian science", is it? Hmm, perhaps you think it is - well, it isn't. To use an "Islamic" example, Ibn al-Haytham's
314:, The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy has an article with the following title: "Arabic and Islamic Psychology and Philosophy of Mind". Just because the article has been stubbed, and there are not enough people interested in the material to quickly rebuild it, does not mean the subject does not deserve its own article.
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philosophy of the mind use the term psychology, but this is an anachronism which should not outweigh the vast majority of psychological literature which does not do this. We have to give preference to the standard opinion of psychologists, not the minority view of some scholars on medieval
Islamic philosophy.
736:(or another suitable article). This is a topic that I believe quite capable of supporting its own article - unfortunately, the article as it stands contains a couple of sentences that would belong in the lede to such and article, a couple that would belong (somewhat rewritten and suitably balanced) in a
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in the late 19th century. Earlier, rudimentary, disconnected and unelaborated psychological observations may well be summarized as pre-history in psychology-related articles, but fall clearly below the threshold of having an article of its own. I am aware that some secondary sources on the medieval
416:
does not espouse a particularly "Islamic" type of optics, it is simply "optics". References to the great men (and women) of science, and their discoveries, can be made without recourse to their (assumed) religion. If you want to claim these discoveries and inventions in the name of Islam then I want
891:
I see by the edit history it was once a long and detailed article and that there was a discussion on another page to make it a stub, the discussion being filled with a long list of trivial arguments about the title that fail to address the importance of the content of this history. I do not see any
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Science is secular and transcends cultural, religious and political boundaries and the ethnicity and beliefs (or non-beliefs) of the scientists themselves. Associating the pursuit of knowledge with a religion or ethnic group is completely ridiculous and religio-politically motivated. Categorising
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I don't mind inventions, theories and discoveries being put in historical and cultural context at all. But I object to loaded religious terms being applied to work that is entirely irreligious (not anti-religious, irreligious). To classify science done in a particular region of the world at a
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or the less comprehensively questionable presentism of the team who have been scouring out after him). I haven't got the time even to start the work that would be necessary for this - if anyone else has the time and competence to do this, I might be induced to change my vote to (rename and)
396:
If you don't like putting science history in its cultural context, you are in the minority. Claiming science in the name of humanity is a subtle attempt to perpetuate the myth it is a western phenomena. It is also an orientalist perspective which is no longer widely supported.
810:, this article is a stub, with plenty of available material. I would also suggest keeping "psychology" in the name for two reasons. First, it is common to refer to philosophical/Aristotelian psychology as just "psychology", even in Knowledge (XXG) articles such as
191:(part of the Jagged85 mess). But probably this article is retrofitting the term "psychology" to a situation where it didn't really exist. As such whatever content it may have probably belongs elsewhere. See the "AFD?" sections and around on the article talk page.
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to see incontrovertable evidence that all these great thinkers were actually religious and their work was somehow an expression of their faith. Otherwise, the title is oxymoronic. Finally, your claim that this is some type of conspiracy by westerners and
644:
Far as I can tell, it seems to be the history of the philosophy of mind in the middle east. That's too fine-grained a topic for its own article, but
Knowledge (XXG) ought to cover it somewhere as a subheading in one of our broader-scope
525:
There seems to be enough material and sources to justify an article. I find the article a bit unsatisfying. I don't feel that I really know anything about the topic after having read it. But still seems to be a notable enough subject.
449:. The name of the article is consistent with those other articles in the series. There is plenty of good material that has been stubbed along with the bad. This is an attempt to annihilate the article history so it cannot be recovered. -
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section and none of the material that would need to come in between (which should be written to reflect what the thinkers concerned thought they were doing, not with either the very questionable presentism of
486:
The conclusion on the talk page was "stub and rework". In its present state the article is just a stub but the material is certainly there for a more detailed account, perhaps under a different title.
546:- it's not a great start, but this is a notable topic. The current title is a bit ambiguous, because it could be taken to refer to psychology of religion as applied to medieval Islam. --
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as "Christian biology" or "British biology" (because of the cultural background of its proponents) you'd be laughed clean off the internet. I reaffirm my previous opinion that we should
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scientific endeavour with the belief (or non-belief) or the ethnicity of long-dead scientists who pursued it is unethical and logically flawed (just look at the fight over whether
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in the 1830s (as evidenced by the fact that certain persons (namely
Khaleefa, 1999) have tried to claim psychophysics - and therefore psychology - in the name of Islam).
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refers to a civilization as well as a religion. We are discussing the work of
Islamic scientists and doctors, not (necessarily) religious scholars and imams. -
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was secular and transcended cultural, religious and political boundaries and the ethnicity and beliefs (or non-beliefs) of the scientists themselves.
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calls "practical psychology" (entry: al-Musabbiḥī). This second meaning of psychology, which includes for example treatises on
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Yes, and the titles of all the other articles - applying a loaded religious term to scientific work - are equally wrong.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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But "Aristotelian psychology" isn't referred to as "Pagan psychology" and according to your second argument, "
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psychology predates Freud (and his approach was borderline pseudoscience anyway). It started with
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arguments about notability here, so obviously it is just a matter of finding a suitable title.
874:. Therefore keep and perhaps rename to "Psychology and philosophy of mind in medieval Islam".
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Yes, therefore your proposed title is wrong, as it boxes in our shared scientific heritage.
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shoud be referred to as Arab, Persian, Iraqi or Muslim. If you tried to describe the
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This article has been shortened from a longer article which misused sources.
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287:"Philosophy of mind" so a subsection on both pages would be appropriate.
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Ok, that covers the article's name. What about the article's subject?
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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As
William says, the use of "psychology" is anachronistic and
261:... isn't that an argument in favour of my recommendation?—
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872:"Arabic and Islamic Psychology and Philosophy of Mind"
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822:, should not be described as "philosophy of mind".
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list of Social science-related deletion discussions
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210:(which has similar sections for other religions).—
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
919:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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283:To a large extent the "History of psychology"
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674:Note: This debate has been included in the
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206:Find out if they want it as a section of
356:. It is "Jaggedism" of the worst sort.
243:. This would be better as a section in
839:in medieval Islam" would be better...
348:this article and move the content to
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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726:Philosophy of mind in medieval Islam
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858:, do not rename – per Wiqi. --
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66:Psychology in medieval Islam
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32:Please do not modify it.
373:To recycle your words,
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350:History of psychology
245:History of psychology
632:William M. Connolley
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342:theory of evolution
789:I'd support that.
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876:Al-Andalusi
419:orientalist
151:free images
837:psychiatry
752:PWilkinson
649:S Marshall
645:articles.—
596:Scientific
565:presentism
265:S Marshall
241:presentist
214:S Marshall
841:Famousdog
812:Aristotle
791:Famousdog
743:Jagged 85
706:• Gene93k
683:• Gene93k
604:Famousdog
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358:Famousdog
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528:Kitfoxxe
504:Comment:
118:View log
860:Lambiam
767:Comment
618:Johnbod
593:Comment
489:Johnbod
443:Comment
333:Comment
310:as per
157:WP refs
145:scholar
91:protect
86:history
722:Rename
561:Delete
346:delete
308:Oppose
237:Delete
129:Google
95:delete
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730:merge
451:Aquib
399:Aquib
371:Reply
320:Aquib
316:Islam
172:JSTOR
133:books
112:views
104:watch
100:links
48:. --
16:<
898:talk
889:Keep
880:talk
868:Keep
856:Keep
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825:Wiqi
808:Keep
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772:nafs
756:talk
748:keep
710:talk
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608:talk
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567:and
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523:Keep
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51:Cirt
46:keep
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