85:. Clear consensus to not keep the article in its current form - the only counterargument arguing keep apparently didn't convince anyone else although a bit more discussion on the proffered sources would have been desirable. There is some disagreement between editors on a merge or redirect, mainly due to concerns about which merge target to use and whether there is properly sourced material that can be merged. Neither discussion strand seems to have gotten to a clear consensus. Thus, this will be a redirect to the most commonly cited merg target, and people can merge stuff from the history as they desire or debate further adjustments to the redirect in the appropriate fora.
853:. Even if there are some sources discussing this topic, I'm not seeing why this would need to have a separate article from the book itself. This is just a single part of the development of what would eventually be compiled to make the published version of The Simarillion, and could easily be covered in the "Concept and Creation" portion of that article. Even with sources, this does not seem to be a necessary
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The issue here is not sourcing (although I am not convinced there is enough sourcing of this to pass GNG). The issue is that there is no strong argument for a seperate article on one of many multiple plot plans in the development of a book. Especially considering the low critical and popular success
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to the article on the
Similirian. This is a detail of the development that does not merit a seperate article. Even if when C. Tolkien dies whoever takes over the estate has more literary abilities and publishes a readable round-world version of the Silmarillion (as opposed to the unreadable one C.
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with "I'm at WP:PRESERVE on this one. It at least has the benefit of being an out-of-universe discussion". Thank you for an interesting rationale, but we still need to find better sources and such, and I am not seeing anything myself, and I note concerns about OR. Can anyone rescue this?
537:
Christopher
Tolkien's book is not an inline reference, so it's impossible to tell just what it's good for and to what extent; "no reason to believe that Christopher Tolkien did not discuss this issue" is speculative at best. In any case, it doesn't warrant a separate article IMO.
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a source in the article. While it is not available in preview, there is no reason to believe that
Christopher Tolkien did not discuss this issue in his massive commentary on his father's works. It would be a massive failure of AGF to assume that the editor
611:, a core policy. On the grounds that we assume good faith of the editor who inserted the source, we should assume that he is not misrepresenting it unless someone has evidence to the contrary (like reading the source and failing verification).
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to the article on
Simirilian, where a brief mention can be included on the process of getting that dreadfully unreadable book published, when C. Tolkien probably should have sought out a real writer to finish it before putting it to
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Are you being deliberately disingenuous? There is hard evidence that the
Christopher Tolkien source discusses the subject because the Whittingham source says he does, and cites him extensively. There is also the matter of
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Tolkien published), I would still oppose a seperate article, and put both versions of the
Similrilion in one article. That might not win, but with only one published version, I see no reason for this as a seperate article.
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No, it isn't speculative at all. Did you read what I wrote? I provided you with a source that discusses
Christopher Tolkien's writings with several specific page citations to exactly the source in our article.
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816:- I doubt such a minor topic would be worth having separate even if there were some sources, but I see little point in giving benefit of the doubt to a topic that has existed for 15 years.
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where she discusses this issue at length, particularly with respect to
Christoopher Tolkien's commentary. She clearly believes the issue to be important in Tolkien's evolution:
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513:. It is apparent that Tolkien spent a long time trying to solve this inconsistency and it was a major factor in him never finishing, or producing a canonical version of, the
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one day; the parent article can cover it fine for a long time. And this is even just an unsourced stub (no length concerns) and an unlikely search term. –
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of the book. I tried to plow through the
Simirilian despite my father's warning it was unreadable, and although I plowed through I remember little of it.
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500:, which Piotrus in another Tolkien discussion said was his go to source for establishing notability for Tolkien elements. See the entries for "Earth"
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Knowledge does not give presedent to existing articles. Such a path would reinforce systemic bias to something worse that it already is.
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Nobody is "pretending" there are sources. The source in the article is perfectly legitimate. I have provided further sources above.
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475:) did not get the material from the source. If you have doubts on that, you might want to take a look at Elizabeth A. Whittingham
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are a perfectly valid means of referencing an article. That is certainly not grounds for deletion even if you don't approve.
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Something certainly came up in my WP:BEFORE. See the links I provided below to book sources.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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The 1946–1947 "Round World
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Keep because "there is no reason to believe that does not discuss it"? Seriously?
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also discusses it with a rather different take. It is covered in the
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
729:. Fails NFICTION/GNG. We don't just pretend there are sources.
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list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions
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357:- It's hard to see how this could ever possibly meet
72:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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409:Note: This discussion has been included in the
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411:list of Fantasy-related deletion discussions
140:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
361:. At the very least, nothing came up in my
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149:Round World version of the Silmarillion
101:Round World version of the Silmarillion
45:For an explanation of the process, see
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290:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
270:Super minor fictional concept. Fails
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478:The Evolution of Tolkien's Mythology
710:Cosmology of Tolkien's legendarium
41:deletion review on 2021 October 13
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497:J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia
115:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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491:The Philosophy of Tolkien
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893:Please do not modify it.
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318:reply here
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386:FOARP
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280:WP:OR
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