1307:? I'm not exactly sure how someone would go about finding a strong source that would support all this. Things like magazines and books generally don't include things about online games. In addition, how could we verify that the facts were true? I can understand how Knowledge needs to know it has factual information, but the simple fact is, we lack that material. But does that mean we shouldn't exist until someone decides to write a book about it?
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939:, which violated Knowledge's copyright rules, and so I removed the edit and read the article, at which point there were no reliable sources, I went looking for some and couldn't find any, that's when I did the AfD. I have nothing to do with computer games or any other vested interest, as you would have been able to tell by looking at my edit history.
666:
Sure, but that level of internet activity does speak to a non-zero level of cultural relevance. My point in drawing attention to the other entries isn't that I don't think they should have articles, but rather that the guidelines that work well for WikiPedia at large may not be entirely suitable for
1196:
You said it yourself, Corvus. The article has alot of authors. And what you dont know, is that about 80% of those edits didnt help the article at all,and 15 of the rest were minor. Now, I say this because thats alot of vandalism, for something that has hardly any media attention, nor has lot of 3rd
1022:
I know the whole article has no refrences because I wrote almost the whole article myself. B y the way, the user above me, Sheldsky, is actually the game developer. And I know he isnt an imposter because he was the one to create the article on Roblox. Anyways, I wrote the whole article using my own
634:. There are articles on WP which should exist and do not, just as there are articles that shouldn't exist and do. It's why an article is discussed for deletion it is examined on it's own merits, based on the source material available. Additionally, Google hits and Youtube video counts are a form of
1542:
Alright, I'll bite. Let's concede that the article needs to be trimmed dramatically (as it would were there a dozen copper-bottomed sources). Beyond that, what do you challenge? That the game exists? The basics of what the game is about? That it plainly has a lot of people interested in it?
920:
Judging from the articles you've started, you don't know anything about online games. So what's it to you? How did you happen to come across this page? I'm suspicious that you may actually be a competitor who has ulterior motives here, or some other vested interest that you have not disclosed.
1214:
ROBLOX Has over 300,000 members, but isn't allowed to have a wiki article? I guess ROBLOX doesn't have many 3rd party things, but it is new and hasn't yet had time to collect such things. It is growing rapidly, and if you delete it now it will be ready to be re-made very soon.
1543:
That it sports a respectable Alexa rank? WP:RS does not forbid (and, indeed, concedes) that self-published sources can be used for certain elements. Plainly some of the elements are sourceable: the existence of the corporation, that it is rated "E," for example.
1120:
The only problem is that there Aren't any reliable third -party sources. Most are so tiny they dont help, or they were written by another user, such as this article now and the biggest one on Great Games
Experiment. I know that I said that I wrote it, butI said
1023:
game knoledge, so I dont know anyway to give a refence to that. But after I wrote it, many people decided to vandalize it and change the article into a stub. But I digress, I dont know how to refrence the article, and I cant find 3rd party sources. --
1430:
The rules for notability, reliable research, verifiability, and neutral point of view apply to all articles regardless of whether it's politics, movies, history, or games. Game articles aren't compared to each other. Game articles are compared to
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143,000 google hits, 4000 youtube videos and 300000 accounts should be enough to establish a minimal level of notability, above that of many other videogame-related articles in WikiPedia. There's precedence demonstrated in similar entries such as
1613:: "If no reliable, third-party sources can be found for an article topic, Knowledge should not have an article on it." In your keep statement you say you can't find any third-party sources, so I'm asking you to justify your statement against
982:. Additionally, please note that knowledge of the subject does not restrict an ability to analyse the content of the article to meet Knowledge's policies for submission. The references listed in this AfD fall short of what is required as a
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threshold, and I think this is one. No, there aren't any third-party, independent, published sources that I can find, and yes, the article should be edited to conform to POV standards. But ... we're talking a subject that has over 800
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For sure. That's exactly what a reliable third party source is. So long as the website was prominent and it wasn't just a user generated review, it would establish notability, and provide verifiable information about the game.
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Maybe external traffic stats would help? We're somewhere around the 30000th most visited site on the internet, according to compete.com and alexa. For comparison, any number above 10000 would be considered a "hit".
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Isn't this a full on admission that the article is not-notable, original research, with a conflict of interest, and totally unverifiable? Holy smokes. This is practically a textbook case for a deletion-worthy article.
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THeres just one more thing that we can point out: Since the few 3rd-party sources we do have gives enough info to make a stub , cant we at least save the article and turn it into a stub IF we delete it?
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Articles of incorporation were filed in
Delaware in 2006, if we have to we can change the entry from being about ROBLOX the game to being about ROBLOX, the studio that makes the game ROBLOX. --
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per above delete !votes. While I'm of the opinion that WP should allow for more articles than it does, unless reliable, secondary, sources can be found, this article fails the policies of
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I would like to ask the people for deleting this page what would constitute all those rules (not-notable, original research, with a conflict of interest, and totally unverifiable)
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Non-notable website, no claims of notability, no reliable sources. I would have tagged this for db-web, but it's been here for quite a while with a lot of editors.
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party sources. THats why I say for the article to keep, purly because the game is popular,and the article is popular, so removing it would be bad in my eyes. --
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The "keep" opinions, apart from RGTraynor's, are completely unpersuasive in the light of the various policies and guidelines cited in the discussion.
1435:. If you want to create a wiki for a random online flash game, there are other gamer exclusive wikis with much lower standards than wikipedia.
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RG, I'm not challenging anything, I'm simply stating that we can't write an article if there are no reliable third-party sources. From
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The flatworld page has a chunk of Morgan McGuire's CV copied into it. He's a prof at
Williams who has worked on ROBLOX. His CV is here
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Yikes. You wrote "Keep" up front, but then proceeded to point out that the article has potential issues with
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No sources in the article and no reliable sources coming from google, doesn't demonstrate notability.
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You can't vote "strong keep" and admit that the article cannot be supported by 3rd party resources.
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sources independent of the topic. Agree with Izno that 25k Alexa isn't really that impressive.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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People voting keep are admitting this article breaks every rule and still vote to keep it.
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my rationale is plain, but I'm not going fishing for another one just because of that.
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612:, with similar quality references and which has 1/3 the audience size of ROBLOX. --
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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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That still doesn't make it a reliable source as to the website's notability.
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Using that logic, you might as well delete half the articles on this site. --
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Are you on the right AfD here? What does that link have to do with Roblox?
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Regrettably, an article cannot be kept purely based on the argument that
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becuase there arent any 3rd party sources that can create the article.
741:- Previous entry was wrongly attributed to me. It was in fact added by
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http://www.thealarmclock.com/mt/archives/2007/02/sfs_virtual_wor.html
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Way to assume good faith. I never even heard of Roblox until I saw
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I'm not trying to negotiate. I am simply asking for clarification.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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And what would YOU consider a "reliable" source, Corvus Cornix?
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Would game reviews by prominent websites/rating sites work?
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http://www.flatworldknowledge.com/minisite/team.html
974:- Please remember that when engaging in debates to
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790:http://www.altosvc.com/port_current_roblox.html
1681:And just my opinion, but 25k Alexa is nothing.
423:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
393:among Knowledge contributors. Knowledge has
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809:http://fucc.blogspot.com/2007/02/roblox.html
734:http://www.altosvc.com/team_anthony_lee.html
1479:However, we can't write an article without
397:regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
788:Current, Roblox will be in the list. See
514:Does not have any reliable sources, per
492:Note: This debate has been added to the
417:on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.
161:For an explanation of the process, see
132:For an explanation of the process, see
103:For an explanation of the process, see
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787:Yeah, if you click on Portfolio -: -->
608:-- whose references are circular and
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843:What makes those reliable sources?
99:deletion review on 2009 February 10
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18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
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157:deletion review on 2009 June 6
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413:on the part of others and to
494:list of video game deletions
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642:in order to assert this.
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1731:Please do not modify it.
667:emerging online games.
345:(added by closing admin)
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177:Please do not modify it.
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1255:
1254:
1253:
1250:
1246:
1242:
1238:
1237:70.177.120.40
1232:
1228:
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1223:70.177.120.40
1220:
1213:
1209:
1208:
1204:
1200:
1194:
1193:
1189:
1185:
1178:
1173:
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1163:Corvus cornix
1158:
1154:
1153:
1152:
1146:
1142:
1138:
1134:
1130:
1124:
1119:
1118:
1115:
1111:
1107:
1102:
1101:Strong delete
1099:
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1086:
1079:
1075:
1071:
1067:
1063:
1059:
1058:
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1042:Corvus cornix
1037:
1036:
1035:
1034:
1030:
1026:
1021:
1015:
1012:
1007:
1005:
1004:
1003:
997:
993:
989:
985:
981:
978:and not make
977:
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969:
958:
953:
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945:
943:Corvus cornix
938:
934:
933:
932:
928:
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919:
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917:
912:
911:
904:
902:Corvus cornix
897:
896:
894:
890:
886:
882:
878:
872:
870:
869:
868:
867:
862:
857:
856:
849:
847:Corvus cornix
842:
841:
838:
834:
830:
826:
821:
817:
813:
810:
806:
802:
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795:
791:
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784:
779:
778:
771:
769:Corvus cornix
764:
762:
759:
754:
752:
751:
750:
744:
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737:
736:
735:
731:
728:
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691:
684:
680:
676:
675:76.246.151.58
672:
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396:
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355:Corvus cornix
346:
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48:
42:
38:
35:
28:
27:
19:
1730:
1727:
1722:
1711:
1697:
1668:
1641:
1636:
1618:
1558:63.204.151.5
1545:
1525:
1484:
1468:
1463:Google hits
1460:
1451:
1427:
1423:
1403:
1333:
1304:
1256:
1211:
1210:
1195:
1181:
1167:
1150:
1122:
1100:
1081:
1046:
1019:
1018:
1001:
999:
971:
947:
906:
851:
796:
773:
748:
746:
738:
729:
649:
648:
600:
583:
581:
565:
550:
529:
528:
511:
478:
466:
457:sockpuppetry
450:
439:; suspected
434:
420:
408:
404:
398:
390:
384:
359:
350:
344:
305:
190:
188:
176:
173:
152:
123:
94:
65:
36:
1368:—Preceding
1278:—Preceding
1247:) has made
1217:—Preceding
1212:Strong Keep
1127:—Preceding
875:—Preceding
835:) has made
717:) has made
669:—Preceding
610:Star Sonata
1702:verifiable
1643:RGTraynor
1547:RGTraynor
1518:notability
1504:Shedletsky
1470:RGTraynor
1452:Weak Keep:
1284:Briguy9876
1257:Correction
1199:Briguy9876
1133:Briguy9876
1025:Briguy9876
923:Shedletsky
881:Shedletsky
707:Shedletsky
694:Shedletsky
614:Shedletsky
518:and fails
391:discussion
1573:Randomran
1437:Randomran
1374:Palmfreak
1349:Palmfreak
1309:Palmfreak
1261:Randomran
1106:Randomran
937:this edit
825:Palmfreak
812:Palmfreak
447:canvassed
441:canvassed
400:consensus
195:Sandstein
1748:Category
1705:reliable
1433:Napoleon
1382:contribs
1370:unsigned
1292:contribs
1280:unsigned
1245:contribs
1219:unsigned
1141:contribs
1129:unsigned
1002:Gazimoff
889:contribs
877:unsigned
833:contribs
749:Gazimoff
715:contribs
671:unsigned
645:Gazimoff
584:Gazimoff
572:to meet
479:username
473:{{subst:
467:username
461:{{subst:
451:username
445:{{subst:
435:username
429:{{subst:
267:View log
1424:Comment
972:Comment
739:Comment
558:another
555:Someone
498:MrKIA11
443:users:
326:history
287:history
234:protect
229:history
191:delete.
1698:Delete
1669:Delete
1461:unique
1456:WP:IAR
1076:, and
1038:QED.
566:Delete
551:Delete
520:WP:WEB
512:Delete
262:delete
238:delete
217:Roblox
209:Roblox
1626:shtak
1621:Pagra
1533:shtak
1528:Pagra
1492:shtak
1487:Pagra
1393:WP:RS
1157:WP:RS
1089:shtak
1084:Pagra
988:WP:RS
516:WP:RS
421:Note:
334:watch
330:links
295:watch
291:links
265:) – (
255:views
247:watch
243:links
16:<
1689:talk
1685:Izno
1675:and
1637:like
1577:talk
1562:talk
1508:talk
1441:talk
1406:talk
1378:talk
1353:talk
1336:talk
1313:talk
1288:talk
1265:talk
1241:talk
1227:talk
1203:talk
1188:talk
1170:talk
1137:talk
1123:Keep
1110:talk
1049:talk
1029:talk
1020:Keep
1010:Read
996:WP:N
994:and
992:WP:V
950:talk
927:talk
909:talk
885:talk
873:].
854:talk
829:talk
816:talk
807:and
797:Keep
776:talk
757:Read
730:Keep
711:talk
698:talk
679:talk
654:Read
618:talk
601:Keep
592:Read
578:WP:V
574:WP:N
539:talk
526:Gary
502:talk
362:talk
338:logs
322:talk
318:edit
299:logs
283:talk
279:edit
251:logs
225:talk
221:edit
199:talk
1159:?
576:or
532:ing
475:csp
471:or
463:csm
431:spa
405:not
1750::
1691:)
1683:--
1679:.
1617:.
1579:)
1564:)
1524:.
1510:)
1502:--
1443:)
1384:)
1380:•
1355:)
1315:)
1294:)
1290:•
1267:)
1243:•
1235:—
1229:)
1205:)
1190:)
1143:)
1139:•
1112:)
1080:.
1072:,
1068:,
1064:,
1031:)
990:,
929:)
921:--
891:)
887:•
831:•
823:—
818:)
745:.
713:•
705:—
700:)
681:)
620:)
580:.
504:)
496:.
481:}}
469:}}
459::
453:}}
437:}}
427::
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43:.
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1575:(
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1263:(
1239:(
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1201:(
1186:(
1135:(
1108:(
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883:(
827:(
814:(
709:(
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677:(
616:(
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536:(
530:K
500:(
483:.
477:|
465:|
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433:|
340:)
316:(
301:)
277:(
269:)
259:(
257:)
219:(
197:(
165:.
136:.
107:.
78:.
49:.
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