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on the book about
Fillmore as a reliable source. As evidenced by the positive reviews by other historians, it is a well-regarded book about Canadian left political history through the life of Roscoe Fillmore. The mentions in multiple other journal articles (more are available that haven't been linked to here) also substantiate the subject's notability.--
517:
Here is my final comment for now: Roscoe
Fillmore's life is the subject of a reputable, peer-reviewed, full-length book. It has also been written about, to various degrees, in several different journal articles across different decades by different historians. As such, this article should satisfy GNG
428:
I don't know if you can actually access the the journal article, but it is not BY Fillmore, who was long dead by the time was published. It is by a historian about
Fillmore. It is part biography of the subject and part a publishing of Fillmore's autobiography. I think we just fundamentally disagree
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discount its validity as a notability-making source. The fact that a minor publishing house issued it does not override the fact that its author was writing about his own relative, and the fact that the book got reviewed does not override the fact that its author was writing about his own relative.
358:
The fact that a paper includes some biographical information about its author(s), as a foreword or afterword to his own work, does not reify that paper into a notability-building source, and the date upon which the article was actually published relative to his death doesn't change anything either.
248:
rather than the subject being written about, a small-press biography of him written by his own grandson, and an archival fonds of his own papers, which means that none of the sources are fully independent of him for the purposes of establishing that his work has been externally validated as
235:
for the purposes of establishing his permanent notability in either field. As a politician, the notability claims here are that he was a fringe party organizer and unsuccessful candidate for political office, neither of which are instant notability freebies in the absence of a demonstrated
881:"If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability."
632:
345:, describes the work as displaying "meticulous research" comparable to other biographies. The reviewer also calls it a "valuable addition to the literature on political radicalism in Canada and on Maritime regional history..."--
623:
In my mind, the GNG issue relating to his activism is settled by several sources listed in the article. In addition, his gardening books appears to have been very popular with several articles in major newspapers about
200:
359:
If he's the bylined author of the source, then it does not constitute evidence of his notability — you do not make people notable for writing stuff by referencing said stuff to itself as verification that it
333:, which has also published numerous highly-regarded books on the Canadian Left. It was not a self-published missive; that his grandson wrote the book does not discount its legitimacy. The book, which was
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article was published in 1982, 14 years after his death. It includes a two page summary of his life as well as an extract of his autobiography. It is clearly an independent, in-depth source. Per
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significant by people he wasn't directly related to or employed by. Nothing stated here is "inherently" notable enough to exempt him from having to be referenced much, much better than this.
870:
499:, and I never said it was, but it certainly isn't "major" enough that its mere imprimatur on the spine of a book would automatically render the fact that said book was written by
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Moreover, in the
Canadian context, BTLB isn't a minor publisher. It is one of the foremost publishers of Canadian historical content. Peer-review makes a major difference here.--
483:
You do realize you're claiming to know more about the relative importance of
Canadian publishing houses than an actual Canadian who actually used to work in publishing, right?
797:
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pass, and as a horticulturist the only notability claim here is that he published gardening books, which isn't a notability freebie in the absence of critical analysis
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660:. While most of the references I've added are brief, they all call him either a prominent horticulturist or a leading figure in the Canadian radical movement.
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763:. I don't know anything about Fillmore so am assessing purely on the secondary material list in discussions above. I also note he was co-founder of the
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811:. This seems to be a clearly notable individual, I can point you to thousands of less well sourced articles of far less notable individuals.
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Most of the new sources are from pay sites, so I cannot access them. There's also a book about him, written by his grandson.
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634:. While the gardening aspect probably wouldn't pass GNG on its own, it just adds the already established reasonings that
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Even if you do not count the peer-reviewed book about his life as a source, it is clear that this article easily passes
793:
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the books -- but the only references being cited at all are an academic journal article where he's one of the bylined
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of those journal articles, with the added bonus that the author or coauthor of both of those journal articles is the
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Acadiensis journal, page 67-68, describes him as prominent local socialist, and giving speeches at
Amherst strike
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Labour / Le
Travail journal, by same author discusses Roscoe's agricultural contributions in Canada and USSR
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coverage of him to get him over GNG, but it can't be the load-bearing pillar of a claim that its existence
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Have you read any of the newly found sources or evidence of notability established in the discussion?
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person as his credited coauthor of the article he partially wrote himself, and thus still isn't fully
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I've added a few more sources and details to the article. I'm still searching for more sources
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
751:, with multiple, intellectually independent references in independent and secondary sources.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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759:. While the biography by his grandson is certainly not independent, the extensive review by
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I think a couple of the items above pass SIGCOV, all together I believe this passes BASIC.
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We can argue over whether any individual item above is SIGCOV, but BASIC allows for
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And yes, the fact that the biographical book was written by his own grandson
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It would be fine to use if the article were properly referenced to enough
363:, you make people notable for writing stuff by referencing said stuff to
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681:- The nominators arguments demonstrate this person lacks notability.
329:. As for the the full-length book on Fillmore, it was published by
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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in other journal articles is not the same thing as being the
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Biography of a political activist and horticulturist, not
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Along with these newspaper items previously mentioned:
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about why this person fails the notability guidelines.
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access (highly recommended) and can confirm it passes
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and his gardening skills to be validated by this book
828:: I confirmed the JSTOR references mentioned above
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
916:). No further edits should be made to this page.
564:per the well reasoned argument of the nominator.
287:list of Nova Scotia-related deletion discussions
285:Note: This discussion has been included in the
267:list of Politicians-related deletion discussions
265:Note: This discussion has been included in the
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109:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
581:I agree with the comments of the nominator
337:by Canada's largest labour history journal
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309:as article author. It easily passes
495:is major. Between the Lines is not
765:Labour Progressive Party of Canada
454:credit Fillmore as one of its two
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94:Introduction to deletion process
387:him over GNG per se, precisely
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
743:- I have JSTOR access through
1:
867:and these Google books refs:
531:writes about Fillmore's life
84:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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897:15:23, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
821:14:23, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
501:the subject's own grandson
64:06:48, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
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906:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
331:Between the Lines Books
538:writes about Fillmore
493:Random House of Canada
485:McClelland and Stewart
391:it was written by his
367:people doing critical
82:Articles for deletion
708:Meanderingbartender
662:Meanderingbartender
640:Meanderingbartender
503:into a moot point.
398:Furthermore, being
339:Labour / Le Travail
233:properly referenced
55:(non-admin closure)
658:including this one
745:Knowledge Library
566:John Pack Lambert
527:I will note that
442:Fillmore and not
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99:Guide to deletion
89:How to contribute
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761:Michael Earle is
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636:User:Namiba
609:User:Namiba
544:User:Namiba
520:User:Namiba
476:User:Namiba
431:User:Namiba
412:independent
381:independent
347:User:Namiba
341:as well as
195:free images
638:has made.
542:as well.--
529:Mark Leier
491:is major.
487:is major.
452:explicitly
315:Acadiensis
910:talk page
809:Shushugah
771:Shushugah
536:Ian McKay
400:mentioned
319:WP:BEFORE
60:EggRoll97
37:talk page
912:or in a
749:WP:BASIC
605:WP:BASIC
450:does it
438:If it's
369:analysis
335:reviewed
162:View log
103:glossary
39:or in a
888:Timothy
583:Bearcat
505:Bearcat
497:nothing
460:Bearcat
416:Bearcat
404:subject
389:because
291:Bearcat
271:Bearcat
251:Bearcat
246:authors
201:WP refs
189:scholar
135:protect
130:history
80:New to
807:, per
679:Delete
579:Delete
562:Delete
361:exists
313:. The
311:WP:GNG
238:WP:GNG
173:Google
139:delete
624:them.
533:here.
440:about
365:other
242:about
216:JSTOR
177:books
156:views
148:watch
144:links
16:<
892:talk
826:Keep
817:talk
805:Keep
794:talk
786:Keep
775:talk
767:per
755:and
741:Keep
726:talk
712:talk
687:talk
666:talk
644:talk
621:Keep
591:talk
570:talk
540:here
509:talk
464:talk
420:talk
408:same
385:gets
376:does
325:and
307:Keep
295:talk
275:talk
255:talk
209:FENS
183:news
152:logs
126:talk
122:edit
50:keep
890:::
886://
607:.--
448:why
223:TWL
160:– (
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