2089:." Why is this the case? If you read through the source below, you'll see that all the information is trivial and nothing there can be used in a Knowledge (XXG) article. It is superficial in coverage, reading more like a PROMO than a neutral article. Again, I do not know why you find it difficult to understand this. You're focusing on minor points that you think I got wrong rather than the bigger picture I'm painting. In addition to all this, your tone is quite condescending. You accuse me of failing to understand guidelines even though you (as I have demonstrated) do not understand this guideline. Adding to this, my experiment wasn't imaginary nonsense; noting once again that SIGCOV is determined individually per SIRS, if you can't use any part of a source in an article (since it focuses on drink prices and very minor trivialities), then it doesn't qualify as SIGCOV. These trivialities include "
2228:
criteria, you are not evaluating for notability, you are evaluating for SIGCOV to see if it is more than a trivial mention. If it isn't obvious that evaluating SIGCOV is evaluating SIGCOV, and not evaluating something else, then perhaps you should consider any one of the other 4 criteria such as the reliable sourcing criteria and imagine how weird it would be to say that evaluating a reliable source requires the source to contribute to notability before it can be considered for notability, because that is essentially the same argument you are making, and trying to require for the SIGCOV criteria. It is absolutely absurd and ridiculous! If the SIGCOV criteria must follow the guidance the way you are incessantly insisting that it does, then so must the others follow the same rule. If they are not able to do that without making any sense then it follows that isn't what it means.
2546:
because two different things appear in the same page and on the same guideline does not mean that they have to be talking about the same thing. I just provided you a perfectly good example of this above with NNC. The notability guideline deals with the idea about whether a topic should have its own article or not while NNC is about the fact that article content itself is not regulated by notability guidelines. Two different things on the same page in the same guideline. Now, please stop making personal remarks about me so I can leave this discussion in peace because I already apologized for the ones that I made about you and I'm going to go back and strike them as well as the ones I made about Nythar as soon as I get the opportunity. Thanks.
3084:. The source analyses by Nythar above are thorough and accurate. NCORP is extremely straightforward and unambiguous that each source must be SIGCOV SIRS to count toward notability; editors unfamiliar with this guideline should not be !voting on NCORP AfDs. It's also very clear from the guideline that local sources do not contribute to notability either, so all the reviews from Perth must be dismissed (and anything that lists the literal address and/or phone number of the venue is certainly local). Coverage derived from pitches, like the Concrete Playground, are also not independent. That leaves us with basically nothing.
1006:. Suz Tucker serves as editorial director. The review provides 249 words of coverage about the subject. The review notes: "The Bird is known as a hipster haven, but don't hold that against it. A small bar with a gorgeous outdoor area complete with fairy-light-wrapped trees, it's a venue that was designed by friends for friends. Back in 2010, a group of beer-loving buddies gutted the William Street site and it's since played host to exhibition launches, spoken word nights, dance parties and, of course, live music. Indeed, The Bird has been a comfortable home for Northbridge creatives for the past eight years."
2413:. The issue about CORPDEPTH is a totally separate thing in a completely different part of the guidance that really has to be talking about the overall notability of the subject. If you are attempting to mix SIRS with CORPDEPTH in ways that contradict the "parent" guidance by trying to say that the individual sources they are talking about from SIRS now have to be able to write their own articles in the way they are talking about should be done for all subjects in CORPDEPTH, then you are violating the fundamental ideas of SIGCOV that they must be more than trivial mentions, and also the principle of
2531:- usually best achieved by not saying anything more. Anyway, the reason someone might "mix SIRS with CORPDEPTH" is that these are sections of the NCORP guidance, and if you don't understand that guidance, you should not be commenting on AfD's in this area. The meta discussion, if you wish to pursue it, is better placed in an RfC somewhere on the guidance (not that I would recommend that). What matters here is that this article fails against NCORP.
910:
Bird nails it. Psych rockers, quirky illustrators, crate-diggers: these are just some of the people whose handiwork one can admire with a cold – and fairly priced – drink in hand. ... Don’t be put off by The Bird’s alternative leanings. Despite championing the non-mainstream, the venue and its staff extend a warm welcome to all, from lone wolves with a midday thirst to parties of dolled-up girls out to paint the town red."
2024:
can't support an article. You could have multiple sources that each don't have enough coverage to support an article on their own merit, but do have enough coverage to support the topic, and when combined they all have enough coverage to support an article. Nothing in what you quoted says anything about coming from a single source. If it doesn't say it, then you are coming to your own conclusion.
2154:
that a single source must support the notability an article. Having significant coverage (i.e. being more than a trivial mention}, and "being notable" are two different things. Your inability to distinguish the two is becoming frustrating and tiresome. If you don't understand the extremely basic concept that what SIRS is trying to explain is that ok source 1 has enough coverage to go toward
31:
1104:
owner Kabir
Ramasary, who bought the venue in 2017, says his own positive experiences at The Bird influenced his purchase. ... Aside from its bar and kitchen, The Bird hosts a range of entertainment, from live music across genres to festival events such as Soul Alphabet to drag shows. It is also famous for Monday Milk, one of the few opportunities in Perth for new bands to have the stage."
1930:
Using a single SIGCOV source, one should be able to, according to policy, produce an article that isn't horrendously brief. Meaning there is enough information that is "significant" (e.g. relatively detailed history, current owners, neutral analysis of the venue's effects on people living there, etc.) Can you prove that The Sunday Times' article contains anything but trivial coverage?
1666:
1633:
1600:
1567:
1534:
1501:
1464:
1427:
586:
549:
520:
487:
445:
416:
1346:. Like I said, you can find an article on almost anything if you search deeply enough, but those sources need to prove that the subject stands out and is particularly notable (i.e., more notable than other similar venues). Most of the sources you listed above are too short and others lack SIGCOV, containing only a few sentences describing the Bird.
455:
2819:
to write an article that sufficiently describes the subject without any PROMO influences. Now re-review The Sunday Times' article and try to find meaningful information that isn't trivial. (You can try doing this with any of the other sources you provided, and you'll see that there's hardly a bit of non-trivial coverage in most of them.)
1867:. Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization. Such coverage provides an organization with a level of attention that extends well beyond brief mentions and routine announcements, and
2153:
I have told you multiple times the guidance does not say exactly what you are trying to imply it does. Sure, each source must be evaluated independently, and sure each source must have more than a trivial mention (SIGCOV), but you do not seem to be grasping the fact that it still doesn't say anywhere
2080:
meet all the criteria, one of which is SIGCOV. You're forcing me to need to clarify such obvious points, that my replies here seem to be "badgering." Anyway, we've gotten past that point; SIGCOV is only determined individually here. Moving on, the problem with regards to the 8 sources is that they do
2417:
that notability doesn't govern content because if you really want to try talking about using a single source, then you don't really have any other choice but to talk about violating that since the only content you would have regarding notability is coming from just that source. It's really very hard
2243:
The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject is not sufficient to establish notability. Deep or significant coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product,
1876:
If you examine the article, you'll find that it consists entirely of trivial information. In fact, that article contains almost no information suitable for an article, other than the fact that the venue exists. You can try that out if you're not sure: try writing a non-PROMO, non-trivial, non-brief,
1769:
per Cunard’s excellent analysis. like other recent AfD’s, this pushes the windows of ROUTINE and SIGCOV in a strongly deletionist direction. As for the comment that the Sunday Times is merely a “local
Western Australian” newspaper: our notability guidelines require reliable sources, not big sources.
2965:
You took my comment out of context. It wasn't intended to be a single statement alone, but meant to make a point to the other editor about how a single source doesn't have to support an article. If you want to pick out whatever part of other peoples words might be technically incorrect, then please
2843:
I'm going to have to insist that you stop this off topic hypothetical line of query and cease the badgering of other editors with experimental theories that are not grounded in any policy. SIGCOV does not require a source to be able to support an article, and you need to stop advancing this line of
2818:
assume you were asked to write an article based on this source alone. After all, you claim it significantly covers the subject, so assuming that there are no other sources available from which you may derive information, and since this source's coverage is "significant", you should at least be able
2784:
What part of this significantly describes the Bird? This is one of the most non-SIGCOV sources I have seen on
Knowledge (XXG). Where's the thorough analysis/description? All I see is an advertisement with no information pertaining to the venue's history. Besides the nonexistent SIGCOV, this article
2692:
states that local coverage is insignificant coverage (meaning the subject is not notable enough for an international audience). Every source you've provided above either falls under local coverage or is simply too short to be worth counting towards SIGCOV. And like
Sirfurboy said, the population of
2023:
So what? Nothing you quoted at CORPDEPTH says the coverage has to come from a single source! Only that the subject has enough coverage to write more than a stub. Just because a single source might have enough coverage to support an article doesn't mean the source can't be used or isn't SIGCOV if it
1291:
coverage, published simply for the sake of publishing something. None of these prove that the Bird is notable, or that it stands out from other venues. If you search deeply enough, you could find a source for almost any building in existence; that is the reason why this large amount of sources does
974:
The review provides 149 words of coverage about the subject. The review notes: "The Bird hosts diverse tunes, from solo artists to bands and DJs, between five and seven nights a week. But there’s as much conversation and conviviality as there is music appreciation, particularly in the rear open-air
3210:
You could say that about any news media source since they all advertise, and so they will always profit from anything they are reporting on no matter if there is sponsorship related to what they report about or not. Plus, we have no way to determine which things they report on are sponsor related,
1068:
The article provides 66 words of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "Another
Northbridge venue that’s prime for hangouts when live music isn’t on offer. It’s one of the most inviting venues around, and after a while in the beer garden, you begin to feel like you’re chilling in a mate’s
1039:
The article provides 95 words of coverage about the subject. The article notes: "The Bird is a live music venue, based in
Northbridge, that thrives on good vibes. The Bird hosts a range of live entertainment, exposing up-and-coming local musicians, monthly story telling night, the infamous Hip-Hop
909:
The review notes: "Is it The Bird? Yes. Is it plain? No, it’s super fresh. Sure, this pokey, charmingly DIY room serves drinks from midday, but it’s as much a place for enjoying art and song as it is somewhere to whet the whistle. ... But as an incubator for some of Perth’s more niche artists, The
3250:
I think you misunderstood. I wasn't saying there was a problem wider than the article. I was saying that your "problem" with local publications doing advertising and sponsorships is only an imagined one because it isn't unique to local publications since all publications and news media outlets do
2028:
Conflating SIGCOV with CORPDEPTH and vice versa. You have already indicated elsewhere in this conversation that your intentions are to run us through hypothetical experiments on your theories about this, and I have already asked before to please stop, so I'll ask one last time to please keep your
1910:
Um, I think you are confused. Sources don't have to pass any kind of a notability test, only
Knowledge (XXG) articles do. A single source doesn't have to be able to support a whole article all by itself to be used on Knowledge (XXG), and you should give a severe tongue lashing to whomever planted
1881:
using that source. It is composed entirely of trivial coverage. That means it fails SIGCOV according to CORPDEPTH. You can examine the other sources this way, and you'll find that none of them contain SIGCOV. (The university paper source is somewhat in-depth but is very local, and therefore fails
1103:
journalism students, so it contributes less to notability. The article notes: "The
William Street Bird is a small, unassuming venue, sitting in a row of stores at the mouth of Northbridge. The Bird has served as a live music venue and bar for more than a decade after being opened in 2010. Current
1929:
What on earth are you talking about? Sources don't pass notability tests; they need to be acceptable according to the GNG so that the article subject passes the GNG. This is entirely about SIGCOV. A source isn't SIGCOV if it is entirely trivial coverage. Significant coverage != trivial coverage.
793:
of
IsolatedNation in Knowledge (XXG) reveals only a single instance of the use of their website as a source. That article is William Street Bird. I'm not enthusiastic about accepting poorly written, heavily opinionated, PROMO articles as reliable, independent, SIGCOV sources. To add to all this,
2545:
Well, thanks a whole heck of a lot for that comment. Now you've forced me to have to justify commenting here after you just advised me that all I have to do is not reply if I don't want to be involved in the discussion. That's just great. Anyway, it should be fairly obvious to anyone that just
2227:
In other words, each source must be, secondary, independent, reliable, and be more than a trivial mention, not be notable in its own right, and each source must be evaluated to meet this standard in order to qualify as a contributing source toward notability. When you are evaluating the SIGCOV
1998:
To add to this, consider the fact that any organization or company that has at least one SIGCOV source (assuming it is both reliable and independent) may have an article. But if that "SIGCOV" source alone can only result in a single-sentence stub, then it isn't SIGCOV. I'm not making up rules;
937:
The review notes: "Inside, The Bird looks like a big jam room for the resident band. Simple fixtures, plain wooden floors and cheap tiles behind the bar create the impression that this isn’t a bar but a well-catered house party. The low-spec look works, though, because none of it’s taken too
3285:
You could say it virtually about any local business. I'd venture to say that every restaurant larger than three tables has made sure to be known locally, be it through local press or radio or telephone directories. I never said that I require worldwide notability: I only expect notability
2085:." Why do I think this? I think this because (and I hope you'll stop belittling my position), if an article like the one I listed below cannot have meaningful, useful information derived from it which can be used in a Knowledge (XXG) article, then it does not qualify as "
2373:
Jeez. I can't even get out of a debate because you want to argue the point so bad you're even willing to respond to a struckout comment. Thank heaven I at least got a little nap in. Nobody is trying to redefine SIGCOV. It is clearly defined where SIRS links to it in the
2303:
I only see one small sentence in the front saying anything about a source, and it has nothing to do with contributing to notability as you suggested. It is also talking about the depth of coverage on a subject by a source, and saying it must be considered, as it should.
2687:
do not "stand out" from other similar things. You claim these sources demonstrate SIGCOV, and I disagree because the sources don't prove that this venue is more notable than any other non-notable venue. SIGCOV is not as simple as "a two-hundred-word review exists."
1740:'s analysis, but I note that "The Sunday Times" here, first source, is a Western Australia local paper and this appears to be a brief Sunday supplement write up. The others also appear to be in a similar vein don't they? This does not meet significant coverage per
2117:" part of SIRS. The rest of the sources also fail this point (literally try checking them out yourself). Before you decide to respond, please rethink your positions and comments carefully, because even I am not entirely sure I understand what you're arguing for.
2947:. Articles in the "Sunday Style (Perth, Australia)" section of a paper, telling you the price of drinks in a club are local interest, clearly. This is the quality of the sources, and per policy, these sources do not pass the required notability test, and per
2418:
to say you aren't using notability to govern content if you are just using the one source for notability. To make matters worse, you would (confusingly) be claiming the same guidance for both, but really violating it in two or more different areas of it.
2358:
Do you also believe the other key criteria for a SIGCOV SIRS are distributive just because the sections on "independent sources", "reliable sources", and "secondary sources" use "sources" instead of (awkwardly) speaking in the singular the whole time?
3197:. Virtually ALL local publications about local businesses are SPONSORED ("infomercials") – no current business model for newspapers allows for free advertisements. Therefore, I don't believe that any local "review" was independent from the subject. —
2639:. Like I said, you can find an article on almost anything if you search deeply enough, but those sources need to prove that the subject stands out and is particularly notable (i.e., more notable than other similar venues)." There is no requirement in
1831:
How in the hell is it "by no means" significant coverage in the source you just linked to? It isn't just a trivial mention. 100% of the coverage in that source is about the topic. How don't you figure that is significant and more than a mere mention?
2668:
And yours was a 217 word comment! Western
Australia has a population of 2.8 million with the vast majority (2.1 million) living in Perth. The review is from the "Sunday Style (Perth, Australia)" section. This is routine coverage of a local business.
3126:. JoelleJay said what I would have, just more concisely. I'm even sympathetic to XOR's view that local newspapers "should" count for something. But there's really nothing here but promotion and brief mentions. Cunard's additional links don't help:
966:
The website's independent editorial policy notes: "We do not seek or accept payment from the cafes, restaurants, bars and shops listed in the Directory – inclusion is at our discretion. Venue profiles are written by independent freelancers paid by
2693:
Western Australia mostly resides in Perth (79% I believe), so that newspaper you cited can be considered to be local coverage. SIGCOV sources would examine the Bird more thoroughly, and would prove the Bird is notable beyond its local scene.
1215:"Corrections will only be made to a published piece if something is found to be factually incorrect. If a change is made to a published article, a dated amendment will be added to the footer to acknowledge the original piece has been edited."
2513:
I know you're gonna respond here cause you are so much like me you just can't help it, but I really wanna get out of this off topic conversation so I'm gonna let you have the last word so just please don't ask me any questions okay? Thanks.
2763:
But as an incubator for some of Perth’s more niche artists, The Bird nails it. Psych rockers, quirky illustrators, crate-diggers: these are just some of the people whose handiwork one can admire with a cold – and fairly priced – drink in
348:
I am not opposed to the idea that this venue arguably does not meet GNG guidelines (personally I view SIGCOV to have been met here, but I can see how it might be arguable either way); but this AfD nomination should come from another user
2774:
Don’t be put off by The Bird’s alternative leanings. Despite championing the non-mainstream, the venue and its staff extend a warm welcome to all, from lone wolves with a midday thirst to parties of dolled-up girls out to paint the town
938:
seriously. While most bar designers do the exposed brick thing because they think it’s cool, The Bird’s done it to save a few bob. If the random eclectica gets too much, head out back for the best spot: a starlit, open-air courtyard."
3251:
this. If what you were saying was true, then we couldn't use any publication or news media service as independent no matter if it were local or not. If your real argument was the fact that this article wasn't notable enough to have
1221:"We regularly critique restaurants and bars, and cultural events. These judgements are entirely our own and are only made after experiencing the subject first-hand. All positive and negative feedback must be backed up by reasoning."
2443:
is considered non-trivial for companies and therefore contributory towards notability. You cannot meet GNG and fail NCORP unless you apply an interpretation of SIGCOV or independence that is at odds with the guidance at
1133:
The article notes that the new live music bar in Northbridge called the Bridge was owned by The William Street Bird owner Mike O'Hanlon. The article does not contribute much to notability, so I am including it in this
231:
3377:
If you believe that media companies ("reliable", "unreliable", doesn't matter) are gladly paying their staff to write about random restaurants for nothing in return, you fail to understand how media business works. —
2271::Regurgitating what has already been said is not helpful in the least. I see nowhere whatsoever where it says that is a requirement for each source. My read on it is that the requirement is for depth of coverage on
3573:
SNGs can also provide examples of sources and types of coverage considered significant for the purposes of determining notability, such as the strict significant coverage requirements spelled out in the SNG for
1816:
The point about the paper being local to WA, and the article being a Sunday supplement article is that this is not, therefore, significant coverage of a notable business but routine coverage of a local one.
2345:
guidance for determining whether any given source is sufficiently significant to contribute to org notability, and would directly contradict all the other places where SIGCOV is described in relation to a
331:
2451:
from SIRS, it comes directly after SIRS under the same Primary criteria section following an extremely straightforward format: SIRS explains how to apply ORGCRIT by stating the four SIRS criteria, then
2651:
only that the venue "has been the subject of significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject". The venue reviews allow the venue to meet the requirement.
2244:
company, or organization. Such coverage provides an organization with a level of attention that extends well beyond brief mentions and routine announcements, and makes it possible to write more than a
574:
3468:
1342:
Newspapers and magazines usually have a set minimum number of articles they must publish in a given period of time. If a subject relies entirely on those types of articles, the subject does not
1168:
To pitch events, venues or news ideas, please send an email containing all relevant details and images to the editorial inbox in your city: Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Auckland and Wellington.
2766:
A succinct wine list that includes Mitolo pinot grigio ($ 9 a glass) proves it’s possible, even for venues that aren’t particularly wine-minded, to serve interesting vino at reasonable prices.
2968:
And please, drop the non-policy based argument that an article can't be written with that source. It isn't required to, and believe it or not, people can actually really get in trouble for
2287:
goes beyond mentions (plural) and announcements (plural) (That means more than one announcement in case you didn't catch that), to make it (obviousy) possible to write more than a stub.
2777:
The setting, while sparse, is tidy and clean (except for when smokers light up out the back), the bartenders’ smiles are genuine and The Bird proves originality is alive in Northbridge.
1654:
1110:
3263:, then the argument isn't valid since there is no requirement for any article to have worlwide or even national coverage like OTHERSTUFF does. The tired old argument that if something
886:
3271:
stupid. There is all kinds of stuff only small groups of experts know or care about that is notable, and the only place you can find "coverage" for it is in a handful of journals...
1227:
Concrete Playground is cited as a source by a number of books, which also supports its being reliable. Here are the publishers and links to the books that cited Concrete Playground:
2916:
Individual sources must be evaluated separately and independently of each other and meet the four criteria below to determine if a source qualifies towards establishing notability.
1789:
1415:
3211:
and which ones are not unless they tell us directly this report was brought to you by so and so, and most reputable reporting agencies (even local ones) will do this in some form.
1390:
379:
1209:"All facts need to be thoroughly checked by both writers and editors before publishing — we have a duty to our readers to provide them with well-researched, accurate information."
3575:
2731:
2717:
2648:
2640:
2626:
2612:
2608:
1883:
1325:
1145:
225:
3643:
301:
1636:
Again, ROUTINE coverage of the venue, this time from Western Independent, a newspaper run by students at Curtin University, published for the sake of publishing something.
3225:
Agree, the problem is much wider than this particular article. However, truly notable businesses will also have significant in-depth coverage, positive or negative (e.g.,
3623:
1588:
1045:
188:
2772:
The bar team, meanwhile, hasn’t gone too crazy with its cocktails, electing instead to stick with dependables such as the Bloody Mary ($ 17) and Dark ‘n’ Stormy ($ 20).
3472:
575:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190815124831/https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/community-radio-station-rtrfm-921s-radiothon-2019-is-set-to-kick-off-tomorrow-ng-b881292654z
2209:
as I did, and not pulling ideas from thin blue air or taking guidance and misconstruing as they have been. If they were able, then I would gladly shut the fuck up.
2487:
coverage provides an overview, description, commentary, survey, study, discussion, analysis, or evaluation of the product, company, or organization. Such coverage
297:
293:
1555:
1016:
1218:"All writers must disclose any possible conflict of interest on any piece of work they submit. This must then be disclosed at the footer of the published piece."
508:
3366:
You misunderstood me. It's not about advertisements, which indeed are usually marked as such. It's about that particular service that media provide for money:
120:
3118:
2141:
My competency with understanding of relevant guidelines is just fine since I can quote policy that says exactly verbatim to back up my understanding of it at
1452:
916:
3233:) or be notable in other ways (e.g. company size, innovation, stock listings, etc.). A restaurant that is mentioned only in the local media and only because
2456:
expands on each of those requirements with details and examples. The "S" in SIRS is expanded upon starting with the CORPDEPTH section and ending with ILLCON.
3174:
and add a brief 1-2 sentence description in the "Culture" section of the proposed redirect target. Not independently notable but a reasonable search term.
40:
2761:
The promoters of Friday’s Kanye West concert probably didn’t have The Bird on their venue shortlist, nor are you likely to find a Rembrandt displayed here.
2759:
Sure, this pokey, charmingly DIY room serves drinks from midday, but it’s as much a place for enjoying art and song as it is somewhere to whet the whistle.
1430:
Not only is it short in length and poorly written, it also refers to the prices of different drinks offered at the venue. Doesn't try to prove the subject
135:
1166:
Not sure we can count Concrete Playground as having editorial oversight just because they list an "editorial director". Their "Editorial inquiries" says
1655:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230522094719/https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/the-bird-fights-early-closing-time-20100223-oz5h.html
1141:
875:
289:
1069:
backyard. We caught up with San Cisco there as they were gearing up to release Gracetown and they rattled off a couple of acoustic numbers for us."
1621:
1416:
https://archive.ph/2023.05.22-093230/https://infoweb.newsbank.com/apps/news/document-view?p=WORLDNEWS&docref=news/1500B6A266EA4BA8&f=basic
1075:
161:
156:
2205:, and I'm not pulling them out of my ass. I would like to see the other editor show me something that they can quote verbatim from some guidance
1687:
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using
607:
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using
896:
2147:
If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability...
1224:"Opinion pieces (including our restaurant and film reviews) are entirely independent and are never produced in partnership with a third party."
165:
1120:
2323:
source; why would the succeeding sentences that go on to describe what "depth" means now switch to being about the aggregate coverage across
404:
829:
330:: This is a pointy nomination and I am being harassed by the nominator, an editor that has recently been trawling through my contributions:
2722:
2617:
2338:
of these criteria to be counted towards establishing notability; each source needs to be significant, independent, reliable, and secondary.
1775:
1489:
943:
891:
148:
789:
At least several of the IsolatedNation references you provided are written as first-person narratives and are heavily opinionated. Also,
1992:
Such coverage provides an organization with a level of attention that extends well beyond brief mentions and routine announcements, and
2973:
2789:, indicating that it is local coverage. The article also falls under the category of "Perth, Australia", which can be seen at the top.
1589:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230522101836/https://themusic.com.au/news/the-best-live-music-venues-wa-has-to-offer/XvtxcHNydXQ/30-10-15
2283:. Only after it mentions this does it continue on to describe what deep or significant coverage is, and finally ending by saying that
115:
108:
17:
3691:
3157:
775:
IsolatedNation is a well-established modern perth culture magazine and is a reliable source. Your claim to the contrary is bizzare.
3101:
I would personally be lenient about local sources if I were drafting a guideline, but I'm not the one who wrote the guideline, and
1206:"Concrete Playground is Australia's fourth largest independently-owned digital publisher (Nielsen Market Intelligence, July 2018),"
246:
3486:
1522:
1321:
981:
825:
475:
213:
3499:
1556:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230522101327/https://themusic.com.au/news/wam-awards-2016-most-popular-venue/KTk6PTw_PiE/12-10-16
1055:
2779:
THE DETAILS 181 William St, Northbridge6142 3513 î williamstreetbird.com Mon-Sat, noon-midnight; Sun noon-10pm THE SCORE***1/2
2768:
The cider and beer range observes a similar mantra with Feral’s Sly Fox summer ale one of four brews available as an $ 8 pint.
2341:
and then immediately redefine "significant coverage" as a cumulative product achieved through multiple sources? That would be
509:
https://web.archive.org/web/20221128220345/https://tonedeaf.thebrag.com/tame-impala-members-form-new-band-for-fundraising-gig/
3171:
1877:
non-SYNTH article using that source alone. It's not possible. Therefore, it isn't possible to write an article longer than a
1236:
1193:
129:
125:
1453:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230522093514/https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/the-bird-ng-79c6b562089e93b2e72539b1485ffd66
3374:
media article whose obvious role is to generate buzz about a commercial enterprise is, with absolute certainty, sponsored.
2491:
provides an organization with a level of attention that extends well beyond brief mentions and routine announcements, and
1196:), you have raised a good point about a flaw in my reasoning, so I did some more research on Concrete Playground. I found
315:
277:
3608:
3547:
3042:
Maybe you should retract the per Nythar bit since they were talking about a single source. That's why I got confused...
2834:
2804:
2708:
2132:
2014:
1945:
1901:
1807:
1723:
1691:
1669:
Story by a regional newspaper in Australia about the venue fighting "early closing time" that is 100% ROUTINE coverage.
1361:
1307:
809:
766:
670:
643:
611:
339:
3673:
3350:
Reliable publications clearly indicate sponsored articles in the byline or with a disclaimer at the top of the article.
2770:
The Bird is also licensed to sell takeaway alcohol, which is handy for revellers keen to kick on once the party’s over.
1708:– above is a review of the sources you've provided. The sources that come off as ROUTINE are listed as lacking SIGCOV.
1026:
69:
46:
2403:
Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material.
192:
437:
207:
2464:
The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject
2384:
A company, corporation, organization, group, product, or service is presumed notable if it has been the subject of
1148:, which requires "significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject".
924:
3655:
3635:
3612:
3588:
3551:
3503:
3476:
3451:
3433:
3419:
3386:
3361:
3335:
3280:
3245:
3220:
3205:
3189:
3162:
3093:
3076:
3051:
3037:
3015:
2985:
2960:
2900:
2871:
2853:
2838:
2808:
2747:
2712:
2678:
2662:
2555:
2540:
2523:
2506:
2427:
2368:
2313:
2296:
2265:
2237:
2218:
2196:
2174:
2136:
2038:
2018:
1981:
1965:
1949:
1920:
1905:
1841:
1826:
1811:
1784:
1757:
1727:
1395:
1365:
1337:
1311:
1280:
1178:
1158:
864:
833:
813:
784:
770:
738:
711:
691:
674:
647:
384:
358:
319:
281:
90:
3316:. We also have a plethora of other policies and guidelines around the reputation of sources and the potentially
2684:
2644:
2636:
1431:
1343:
203:
2353:
Like any other source, reviews must meet the primary criteria to be counted towards the notability requirement:
1622:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230522094719/https://westernindependent.com.au/2021/10/28/reimaging-the-gay-club/
748:
152:
2611:. These reviews are both functionally and intellectually independent from William Street Bird, so they meet
2187:...You know that this is an AfD on a venue, not a person, right? And that NBASIC is exclusively for people?
726:
2940:
2401:. If you go to SIGCOV it plainly tells you exactly what is meant for the "Significant coverage" threshold:
1400:
389:
253:
3291:
3182:
3072:
405:
https://web.archive.org/web/20220929074112/https://www.theurbanlist.com/perth/a-list/best-bars-northbridge
3345:
3317:
3000:
2245:
1851:
3669:
3154:
3114:
2858:
I'm only saying this because the line of experimental questioning has become disruptive and irritating.
2474:(alt from Numerical facts section: A collection of multiple trivial sources does not become significant)
1490:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230522093819/https://www.broadsheet.com.au/perth/northbridge/bars/the-bird
65:
3234:
1083:
3138:(seems to be national but also to specialize in doing positive reviews of everthing, i.e. promotion);
2047:
The fact that you think sources can collectively constitute significant coverage indicates underlying
3529:
include published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, books, television documentaries or
3357:
3276:
3216:
3047:
3033:
2981:
2972:
when someone tells them they are getting out of line because they do sometimes make a big deal about
2896:
2867:
2849:
2551:
2519:
2423:
2309:
2292:
2233:
2214:
2170:
2034:
1977:
1961:
1916:
1837:
1050:
1021:
948:
86:
3305:
Yes, most local publications are unreliable in establishing notability – our key policy states that
2995:
Talking about out of context. The point is that an encyclopaedic article cannot be written based on
2379:
2113:" How is the coverage significant if it focuses on such trivialities? Well, it isn't. It fails the "
1468:
1317:
1288:
3651:
3631:
3584:
3495:
3429:
3089:
3011:
2956:
2674:
2536:
2502:
2364:
2261:
2192:
2062:
and meet the four criteria below to determine if a source qualifies towards establishing notability
1822:
1753:
1256:
920:
860:
239:
144:
96:
81:. No apparent consensus whether sources satisfy SIGCOV, with good arguments both for and against.
2459:
This is how I and I'm guessing pretty much everyone else here reads CORPDEPTH (bolded clarifiers):
2142:
1956:
Nothing in SIGCOV says a source has to be able to support an article in order to be used. Period.
523:
William Street Bird is mentioned as the venue where a performance is to take place; lacks SIGCOV.
3516:
3464:
3384:
3333:
3295:
3243:
3230:
3203:
2929:
Be a secondary source; primary and tertiary sources do not count towards establishing notability.
2739:
2654:
1329:
1272:
1187:
1174:
1150:
780:
734:
354:
343:
335:
219:
3558:
3524:
3520:
2689:
1741:
953:
852:
266:, as all but one of the sources are either promotional, from the venue or largely an interview.
2151:
I have grave CIR concerns about your interpretations and understandings of basic guidance since
3177:
3068:
2727:
2622:
1854:. I posted the entire article below if you want to examine it quickly. According to CORPDEPTH:
1268:
1252:
1248:
1240:
1100:
687:
311:
273:
104:
58:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
3668:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
2999:
of the sources thus far, as none provide anything that show why this subject is notable. And
2969:
2910:
2052:
1745:
1523:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230522094251/https://concreteplayground.com/perth/bars/the-bird
1260:
1232:
476:
https://web.archive.org/web/20210514103005/https://concreteplayground.com/perth/bars/the-bird
64:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
3602:
3543:
3447:
3415:
3149:
3110:
2828:
2798:
2743:
2702:
2658:
2126:
2008:
1939:
1895:
1801:
1717:
1355:
1333:
1301:
1276:
1154:
803:
760:
707:
664:
637:
3512:
3439:
3407:
3143:
2414:
2048:
1406:
1212:"Direct quotes cannot be altered, and subjects do not have any approval over their quotes."
819:
395:
263:
3353:
3272:
3212:
3043:
3029:
2977:
2892:
2863:
2845:
2547:
2515:
2495:
makes it possible to write more than a very brief, incomplete stub about the organization.
2419:
2305:
2288:
2229:
2210:
2166:
2030:
1973:
1957:
1926:
1912:
1847:
1833:
1603:
Same as the one above, except this one contains only three sentences describing the Bird.
1264:
82:
2920:
Contain significant coverage addressing the subject of the article directly and in depth.
2066:
Contain significant coverage addressing the subject of the article directly and in depth.
1994:
makes it possible to write more than a very brief, incomplete stub about the organization
1292:
not automatically prove the subject passes the GNG. Therefore, the subject lacks SIGCOV.
1197:
975:
area. It has been extended to fit in even more op-shop couches and repurposed armchairs."
655:
per my source assessment table and the fact that I can't find any SIGCOV sources online.
3142:(ditto). The vast, vast majority of venues like this should never have WP articles, per
3647:
3627:
3580:
3491:
3425:
3367:
3106:
3085:
3007:
2952:
2670:
2532:
2498:
2360:
2257:
2188:
1818:
1749:
1228:
856:
3571:; an NCORP subject by definition cannot meet GNG if it doesn't meet NCORP. From WP:N:
2907:
Um, I think you are confused. Sources don't have to pass any kind of a notability test
1774:
newspaper with 168,000 subscribers would apply even if merely Western Australian. See
722:
3685:
3379:
3328:
3299:
3238:
3198:
2621:
had a circulation of over 250,000 in 2013 and is distributed throughout the state of
1865:
Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject is not sufficient to establish notability
1183:
1170:
989:
776:
730:
350:
3323:
Now let me know please what's so notable about that restaurant that can be found in
3535:
2607:
is a 249-word review. These reviews are all about William Street Bird and all meet
683:
306:
268:
2201:
Sure, I know that, but at least I'm getting the principles I'm talking about from
438:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230203130151/https://www.williamstreetbird.com/about
182:
3484:
Inclined to agree with SMcCandlish, the point of AUD is to avoid independent but
1167:
1003:
3594:
3564:
3539:
3443:
3411:
2948:
2820:
2790:
2694:
2118:
2083:
significant coverage addressing the subject of the article directly and in depth
2000:
1931:
1887:
1793:
1737:
1709:
1347:
1293:
795:
752:
703:
656:
629:
2068:" What is it about this that is so difficult to understand? Individual sources
2059:
Individual sources must be evaluated separately and independently of each other
1780:
1570:
General list of venues that contains only four sentences describing the Bird.
1537:
Similarly, this is also a very brief review that reads like an advertisement.
3519:'s analysis. So long as the article meets GNG, it doesn't matter if it fails
2609:
Knowledge (XXG):Notability (organizations and companies)#Significant coverage
1200:
Here is information in the editorial policy that supports its being reliable:
3410:
with sources presented by Cunard. They're reliable and in-depth enough IMV.
2951:
there is no way an encyclopaedia article can be written from these sources.
2945:
The reviews must be published outside of purely local interest publications
2647:" or be "more notable than other similar venues". There is a requirement in
2613:
Knowledge (XXG):Notability (organizations and companies)#Independent sources
1244:
3226:
589:
Mentioned as the venue where a performance is to take place; lacks SIGCOV.
3298:
has its place in history also due to the pioneering implementation of the
982:"The Bird: A hipster hang-out with hip hop karaoke and a killer courtyard"
628:– above is a source assessment table of the article's sources I prepared.
3424:
Sources can be reliable and in-depth and still fail AUD, which these do.
2649:
Knowledge (XXG):Notability (organizations and companies)#Primary criteria
1434:. Looks like it was published just for the sake of publishing something.
1146:
Knowledge (XXG):Notability (organizations and companies)#Primary criteria
1326:
Knowledge (XXG):Notability (organizations and companies)#Product reviews
1316:
I don't consider venue reviews to be routine coverage that falls under
1115:
2738:
regional, statewide, provincial, national, or international source".
2449:
totally separate thing in a completely different part of the guidance
1467:
Not only is it a relatively short review, it also comes off as hyper-
541:
3438:
Sources can be reliable and in-depth and I believe they really meet
3109:
wrote) is not the kind of coverage that establishes noteworthiness.
2633:
regional, statewide, provincial, national, or international source".
2095:
A succinct wine list that includes Mitolo pinot grigio ($ 9 a glass)
2319:
The opening line considers the depth of coverage of the subject by
1040:
Kara"YO!"ke and international heavyweights playing intimate shows."
823:
3593:
None of the sources presented above pass the GNG criteria anyway.
1869:
makes it possible to write more than a very brief, incomplete stub
1771:
3567:, this is incorrect. NCORP prescribes which sources and coverage
2732:
Knowledge (XXG):Notability (organizations and companies)#Audience
2627:
Knowledge (XXG):Notability (organizations and companies)#Audience
2103:
The bar team, meanwhile, hasn’t gone too crazy with its cocktails
3557:
So long as the article meets GNG, it doesn't matter if it fails
3664:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
3538:), it's likely that most of the sources on it will be reviews.
25:
1017:"These Are The Venues Where Western Australia Loves To Party"
3380:
3329:
3239:
3199:
3311:—those that have gained sufficiently significant attention
3006:
policy, as are the rest of those guidelines I cited above.
2327:
sources? Why would the guideline repeatedly emphasize that
2115:
addressing the subject of the article directly and in depth
2087:
addressing the subject of the article directly and in depth
1999:
refrain from accusing me of this, and communicate civilly.
721:
More sources added to article's talk page, including this
3534:. Until a music venue has been around for a while (e.g.,
3442:
as demonstrated by Cunard. You can never change my mind.
3237:
and is open to business – is positively non-notable. —
2529:
but I really wanna get out of this off topic conversation
2091:
this pokey, charmingly DIY room serves drinks from midday
1328:: "be significant", "be independent", and "be reliable".
794:
those sources don't even significantly cover "the Bird."
3267:
is notable, then it will be known all over the world is
2718:
Knowledge (XXG):Notability (organizations and companies)
2641:
Knowledge (XXG):Notability (organizations and companies)
749:
none of the sources you added to the article's talk page
419:
General list in which William Street Bird lacks SIGCOV.
3348:? It clearly says what I was explaining to you before,
3290:. Nestlé is notable for various reasons, including the
2757:
IS it The Bird? Yes. Is it plain? No, it’s super fresh.
2432:
I started my reply before you struck your comments out.
2051:
issues with your understanding of relevant guidelines.
1504:
Extremely brief review that comes off as 100% ROUTINE.
790:
751:
demonstrate SIGCOV; they are instead very promotional.
178:
174:
170:
1012:
Additional sources that contribute less to notability:
238:
3067:. That's enough to meet GNG. (Braces for badgering).
2405:. More than a trivial mention is good enough to pass
874:
per the significant coverage in multiple independent
2107:
the venue and its staff extend a warm welcome to all
1770:
Even it it did require big sources, I would think a
1322:
Knowledge (XXG):Notability (events)#Routine coverage
2726:is a newspaper distributed throughout the state of
252:
2099:The Bird is also licensed to sell takeaway alcohol
1324:. These reviews meet the three items listed under
2923:Be completely independent of the article subject.
1863:of the subject by the source must be considered.
1792:by no means qualifies as "significant coverage."
490:Very short article with a very promotional tone.
72:). No further edits should be made to this page.
3676:). No further edits should be made to this page.
3642:Note: This discussion has been included in the
3622:Note: This discussion has been included in the
2787:incubator for some of Perth’s more niche artists
2164:of the basic understanding needed to edit here.
851:- It's a business, but not a notable one. Fails
288:Note: This discussion has been included in the
2914:
3644:list of Companies-related deletion discussions
2926:Meet the standard for being a reliable source.
1004:https://concreteplayground.com/sydney/about-us
3624:list of Business-related deletion discussions
2755:
2462:
2351:
2328:
2162:etc, etc, then you are falling far too short
1857:
747:IsolatedNation is not a reliable source, and
8:
3523:. I also think an interesting analogy is to
2683:Certain things that are average, normal, or
2275:per the sentence that specifically says it;
2158:, source 2 has enough coverage to go toward
1046:"The Best Live Music Venues WA Has To Offer"
136:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
2720:does not require companies to "stand out".
2029:experimental theories to yourself. Thanks.
3641:
3621:
3490:sources. May review in more detail later.
2844:argument now. You are pushing it too far.
2635:Nythar wrote above, "the subject does not
2600:
2592:
2281:is not sufficient to establish notability.
1374:
1002:There is editorial oversight according to
363:
287:
3103:telling you the price of drinks in a club
3340:There is no requirement that sources be
2891:: per the assessment of Cunard. Thanks.
2752:This is the article you're referring to:
2604:
2596:
2591:Venue reviews are not routine sources.
1287:Every one of these sources consists of
45:For an explanation of the process, see
3572:
3556:
3528:
3527:, which provides that notable sources
3469:2001:48F8:3004:FC4:D480:5FD5:9310:3BA4
3349:
3306:
3102:
2974:Knowledge (XXG):Competence is required
2944:
2906:
2786:
2528:
2448:
2396:These criteria, generally, follow the
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2146:
2114:
2110:
2106:
2102:
2098:
2094:
2090:
2086:
2082:
2065:
2056:
1991:
1878:
1198:Concrete Playground's editorial policy
682:Fails GNG as per Nythar's assessment.
2394:and then it goes on to tell you that
2026:In other words, you are making it up.
1144:to allow William Street Bird to pass
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
2392:that are independent of the subject.
1776:The Sunday Times (Western Australia)
1111:"The Bird fights early closing time"
2966:find somebody else to debate with.
2390:multiple reliable secondary sources
2111:the bartenders’ smiles are genuine.
725:, and a review of a performance by
2939:Moreover, under significance, the
542:https://www.williamstreetbird.com/
24:
2493:this requirement for each source
1664:
1631:
1598:
1565:
1532:
1499:
1462:
1425:
1140:There is sufficient coverage in
980:McCarthy, Kristie (2018-09-26).
584:
547:
518:
485:
453:
443:
414:
292:lists for the following topics:
121:Introduction to deletion process
29:
3307:Knowledge (XXG) articles cover
2860:I'm done being experimented on.
2468:is not sufficient to establish
1911:that dumb idea into your head.
1790:The source you are referring to
1074:Mountain, Isabel (2021-10-28).
47:Knowledge (XXG):Deletion review
3172:Northbridge, Western Australia
1237:Johns Hopkins University Press
1203:Its editor is Samantha Teague.
915:Bennett, Andrew (2010-07-23).
885:Veenhuyzen, Max (2014-08-31).
41:deletion review on 2023 June 4
1:
3147:
3288:independent from the subject
2398:general notability guideline
2256:contributing to notability.
2252:This is the requirement for
2074:separately and independently
1971:Please stop making up rules.
1109:Pepper, Daile (2010-02-23).
1054:. 2015-10-30. Archived from
1025:. 2016-10-12. Archived from
952:. 2017-10-06. Archived from
3576:organizations and companies
2734:, which requires "at least
2629:, which requires "at least
2246:very brief, incomplete stub
2064:"; one of the criteria is "
1879:very brief, incomplete stub
552:The venue's website again.
454:
111:(AfD)? Read these primers!
3708:
2909:. This is incorrect. From
1665:
1632:
1599:
1566:
1533:
1500:
1463:
1426:
1076:"Reimaging the (gay) club"
881:Selection of four sources:
585:
548:
519:
486:
444:
415:
2992:16:16, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
2489:by each qualifying source
2184:16:49, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
2044:16:49, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
1987:16:49, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
1685:
1380:Source assessment table:
1377:
605:
369:Source assessment table:
366:
3692:Pages at deletion review
3666:Please do not modify it.
3656:01:18, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
3636:01:16, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
3613:04:39, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
3589:01:14, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
3552:21:39, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
3504:11:11, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
3477:03:22, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
3452:01:57, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
3434:16:16, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
3420:02:20, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
3387:01:01, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
3362:17:30, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
3336:10:49, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
3325:independent, unsponsored
3292:worldwide Nestlé boycott
3281:04:15, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
3246:10:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
3221:09:10, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
3206:21:27, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
3190:13:30, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
3163:08:13, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
3119:19:19, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
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3077:11:33, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
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3016:11:56, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
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2901:01:59, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2877:12:10, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2872:11:32, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2854:10:57, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2839:09:00, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
2809:08:25, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
2748:08:09, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
2713:07:43, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
2679:07:29, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
2663:07:18, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
2556:16:10, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
2541:08:01, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
2524:04:22, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
2507:19:39, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
2428:03:53, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
2369:23:46, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2314:22:25, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2297:22:12, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2266:21:40, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2238:19:07, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2219:21:48, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2197:21:23, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2180:18:35, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2175:17:58, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2137:14:05, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2039:13:31, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
2019:10:48, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
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1812:15:39, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
1785:15:32, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
1758:11:38, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
1736:Not slavishly following
1728:11:03, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
1366:10:41, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
1338:10:34, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
1312:10:30, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
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865:09:10, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
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359:03:03, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
320:02:45, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
282:02:45, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
91:12:59, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
61:Please do not modify it.
3020:Ok, I see now you said
2248:about the organization.
1871:about the organization.
3028:source. My apologies.
2932:
2785:claims the Bird is an
2781:
2603:is a 149-word review.
2599:is a 347-word review.
2595:is a 285-word review.
2497:
2411:each individual source
2357:
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2277:Trivial or incidental
1990:Argue with CORPDEPTH:
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1099:is a newspaper run by
193:edits since nomination
3313:by the world at large
2815:Here's an experiment:
2441:what type of coverage
2279:coverage of a subject
2055:specifically states "
1401:Significant coverage?
1320:, which redirects to
887:"The Scene: The Bird"
448:The venue's website.
390:Significant coverage?
109:Articles for deletion
3344:. Have you not read
2470:or contribute toward
2386:significant coverage
1405:Count source toward
1257:Taylor & Francis
822:per their aboutpage:
394:Count source toward
3140:Concrete Playground
2643:that a venue must "
2447:CORPDEPTH is not a
2076:of each other, and
1692:source assess table
1097:Western Independent
1080:Western Independent
986:Concrete Playground
921:News Corp Australia
612:source assess table
145:William Street Bird
97:William Street Bird
3296:Ford Motor Company
3130:of Perth (local);
826:Gråbergs Gråa Sång
3658:
3638:
3569:count towards GNG
2943:guidance states:
2728:Western Australia
2623:Western Australia
2466:by a given source
2454:immediately after
2355:1.Be significant
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1101:Curtin University
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126:Guide to deletion
116:How to contribute
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39:was subject to a
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3144:WP:NOT#DIRECTORY
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2723:The Sunday Times
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2905:Above you say:
2821:
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2685:run-of-the-mill
2601:Broadsheet 2017
2593:Veenhuyzen 2014
2439:GNG to tell us
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3511:: This meets
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827:
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811:
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768:
765:
762:
758:
756:
750:
746:
745:
744:
743:
740:
736:
732:
728:
724:
723:SIGCOV source
720:
717:
716:
715:
714:
713:
709:
705:
701:
693:
689:
685:
681:
678:
676:
672:
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245:
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202:
201:Find sources:
197:
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176:
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163:
158:
154:
150:
146:
142:
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137:
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62:
56:
55:
48:
42:
38:
35:
28:
27:
19:
3665:
3663:
3605:
3596:
3568:
3536:Webster Hall
3530:
3508:
3485:
3481:
3467:'s sources.
3460:
3403:
3371:
3346:WP:SPONSORED
3341:
3324:
3318:WP:SPONSORED
3312:
3308:
3287:
3268:
3264:
3260:
3256:
3252:
3194:
3176:
3167:
3150:
3139:
3135:
3131:
3128:Sunday Times
3127:
3123:
3098:
3081:
3069:Doctorhawkes
3064:
3025:
3021:
3003:
3001:WP:CORPDEPTH
2996:
2989:
2967:
2915:
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2874:
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2814:
2801:
2792:
2756:
2735:
2721:
2705:
2696:
2653:
2634:
2630:
2616:
2597:Bennett 2010
2588:
2492:
2488:
2484:
2480:
2477:
2473:
2469:
2465:
2463:
2453:
2440:
2436:
2435:NCORP works
2410:
2406:
2402:
2397:
2395:
2389:
2385:
2383:
2375:
2352:
2347:
2342:
2335:
2331:
2329:
2324:
2320:
2302:
2284:
2278:
2273:each subject
2272:
2270:
2253:
2206:
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2181:
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2163:
2159:
2155:
2150:
2129:
2120:
2077:
2073:
2069:
2058:
2057:
2041:
2025:
2011:
2002:
1993:
1984:
1970:
1942:
1933:
1898:
1889:
1868:
1864:
1860:
1858:
1852:WP:CORPDEPTH
1804:
1795:
1766:
1720:
1711:
1705:
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1674:
1646:
1641:
1613:
1608:
1580:
1575:
1547:
1542:
1514:
1509:
1481:
1476:
1444:
1439:
1391:Independent?
1379:
1358:
1349:
1304:
1295:
1190:
1149:
1132:
1125:. Retrieved
1121:the original
1114:
1096:
1095:
1088:. Retrieved
1084:the original
1079:
1067:
1060:. Retrieved
1056:the original
1049:
1038:
1031:. Retrieved
1027:the original
1020:
1001:
994:. Retrieved
990:the original
985:
973:
968:
965:
958:. Retrieved
954:the original
947:
936:
929:. Retrieved
925:the original
908:
901:. Retrieved
897:the original
890:
871:
848:
806:
797:
763:
754:
718:
699:
697:
696:
679:
667:
658:
652:
640:
631:
625:
599:
594:
566:
561:
533:
528:
500:
495:
467:
462:
429:
424:
380:Independent?
368:
327:
305:
267:
261:
249:
243:
235:
228:
222:
216:
210:
200:
102:
79:no consensus
78:
76:
60:
57:
36:
3465:User:Cunard
3342:unsponsored
3327:sources. —
3151:SMcCandlish
3008:Sirfurboy🏄
2953:Sirfurboy🏄
2671:Sirfurboy🏄
2625:. It meets
2533:Sirfurboy🏄
2483:significant
2472:notability
2254:each source
1882:SIGCOV per
1819:Sirfurboy🏄
1750:Sirfurboy🏄
857:Sirfurboy🏄
791:this search
226:free images
3354:Huggums537
3273:Huggums537
3213:Huggums537
3136:Broadsheet
3111:XOR'easter
3044:Huggums537
3030:Huggums537
2990:Updated on
2978:Huggums537
2893:Huggums537
2875:Updated on
2864:Huggums537
2846:Huggums537
2548:Huggums537
2516:Huggums537
2420:Huggums537
2380:WP:ORGCRIT
2378:criteria.
2332:individual
2306:Huggums537
2289:Huggums537
2230:Huggums537
2211:Huggums537
2178:Updated on
2167:Huggums537
2160:notability
2156:notability
2031:Huggums537
1974:Huggums537
1958:Huggums537
1927:Huggums537
1913:Huggums537
1848:Huggums537
1834:Huggums537
1432:stands out
1318:WP:ROUTINE
1289:WP:ROUTINE
1127:2023-05-22
1090:2023-05-22
1062:2023-05-22
1033:2023-05-22
996:2023-05-22
969:Broadsheet
960:2023-05-22
949:Broadsheet
944:"The Bird"
931:2023-05-22
917:"The Bird"
903:2023-05-22
83:Randykitty
3670:talk page
3648:JoelleJay
3628:JoelleJay
3581:JoelleJay
3492:Alpha3031
3426:JoelleJay
3253:worldwide
3235:it exists
3134:(local);
3107:Sirfurboy
3086:JoelleJay
2730:so meets
2645:stand out
2637:stand out
2499:JoelleJay
2361:JoelleJay
2258:JoelleJay
2203:somewhere
2189:JoelleJay
2143:WP:NBASIC
1884:#Audience
1396:Reliable?
1344:stand out
1245:Routledge
1051:The Music
1022:The Music
702:No SIGCOV
385:Reliable?
302:Australia
66:talk page
3686:Category
3672:or in a
3381:kashmīrī
3330:kashmīrī
3320:content.
3302:concept.
3294:, while
3240:kashmīrī
3200:kashmīrī
3168:Redirect
3132:PerthNow
2862:Thanks.
2690:WP:NCORP
2589:Comment:
2325:multiple
2207:anywhere
2149:, while
1742:WP:NCORP
1194:contribs
1184:Valereee
1171:Valereee
1134:section.
853:WP:NCORP
777:Jack4576
731:Jack4576
351:Jack4576
316:Contribs
278:Contribs
189:View log
130:glossary
68:or in a
3531:reviews
3482:Comment
2911:WP:SIRS
2476:. Deep
2376:primary
2182:Updated
2109:" and "
2105:" and "
2101:" and "
2097:" and "
2093:" and "
2053:WP:SIRS
2042:Updated
1985:Updated
1746:WP:SIRS
1706:Comment
1469:ROUTINE
1387:Source
1263:), and
1116:WAtoday
719:Comment
684:LibStar
626:Comment
376:Source
307:JML1148
300:, and
269:JML1148
232:WP refs
220:scholar
162:protect
157:history
107:New to
3597:Nythar
3565:Voorts
3540:voorts
3517:Cunard
3444:SBKSPP
3440:WP:GNG
3412:SBKSPP
3408:WP:GNG
3406:Meets
3269:really
3265:really
3257:Nestle
3227:Nestlé
3195:Delete
3184:Anchor
3124:Delete
3099:Delete
3082:Delete
2976:here.
2949:Nythar
2823:Nythar
2793:Nythar
2740:Cunard
2697:Nythar
2655:Cunard
2444:NCORP.
2437:within
2415:WP:NNC
2382:says,
2348:single
2121:Nythar
2049:WP:CIR
2003:Nythar
1934:Nythar
1890:Nythar
1850:: See
1796:Nythar
1738:Nythar
1712:Nythar
1471:-ish.
1350:Nythar
1330:Cunard
1296:Nythar
1273:Cunard
1151:Cunard
849:Delete
820:WP:SPS
818:Seems
798:Nythar
755:Nythar
704:Adler3
700:Delete
680:Delete
659:Nythar
653:Delete
632:Nythar
264:WP:GNG
262:Fails
204:Google
166:delete
3559:NCORP
3525:NSONG
3521:NCORP
3179:Frank
3022:these
2764:hand.
2070:must
1781:A. B.
1772:Perth
298:Radio
294:Music
247:JSTOR
208:books
183:views
175:watch
171:links
16:<
3652:talk
3632:talk
3585:talk
3544:talk
3515:per
3509:Keep
3473:talk
3463:per
3461:Keep
3448:talk
3430:talk
3416:talk
3404:Keep
3358:talk
3277:talk
3261:Ford
3231:Ford
3217:talk
3115:talk
3105:(as
3090:talk
3073:talk
3065:Keep
3048:talk
3034:talk
3026:that
3012:talk
2982:talk
2957:talk
2897:talk
2889:Keep
2868:talk
2850:talk
2775:red.
2744:talk
2675:talk
2659:talk
2552:talk
2537:talk
2520:talk
2503:talk
2481:(aka
2424:talk
2409:for
2407:SIRS
2365:talk
2310:talk
2293:talk
2262:talk
2234:talk
2215:talk
2193:talk
2171:talk
2035:talk
1978:talk
1962:talk
1917:talk
1886:.) —
1859:The
1838:talk
1823:talk
1767:Keep
1754:talk
1334:talk
1277:talk
1251:and
1188:talk
1175:talk
1155:talk
872:Keep
861:talk
830:talk
781:talk
735:talk
708:talk
688:talk
355:talk
312:Talk
274:Talk
240:FENS
214:news
179:logs
153:talk
149:edit
87:talk
3513:GNG
3372:Any
3259:or
3170:to
3160:😼
2997:any
2736:one
2631:one
2388:in
2336:all
2330:An
1778:. —
1407:GNG
1271:).
1255:),
1243:),
1235:),
396:GNG
344:(4)
340:(3)
336:(2)
332:(1)
254:TWL
187:– (
3688::
3654:)
3646:.
3634:)
3626:.
3611:)
3609:🍀
3603:💬
3587:)
3550:)
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3498:•
3475:)
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3370:.
3360:)
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3279:)
3229:,
3219:)
3148:—
3146:.
3117:)
3092:)
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3050:)
3036:)
3014:)
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2829:💬
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2711:)
2709:🍀
2703:💬
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2661:)
2615:.
2554:)
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2505:)
2478:or
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2264:)
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2127:💬
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1695:}}
1689:{{
1680:No
1647:No
1614:No
1581:No
1548:No
1515:No
1482:No
1445:No
1409:?
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690:)
673:)
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609:{{
600:No
567:No
534:No
501:No
468:No
430:No
398:?
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338:,
334:,
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304:.
296:,
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