1469:. Seems like a notable topic, although based on media coverage. Renaming can be discussed on article's talk page. I hear POV concerns, yes, but does the other side (Isreal) use human shields? (If you think they do, ping me here with a reply or on article's talk page - I'd like to learn more about it). But if the answer is no, or there is no reply to my message, consider my comment also an
641:- first it would depend on how much material there is, if there is significant material on comparisons between Palestinians and Nazis, I could consider the proposal, but I also would like to know how the combined article would be structured. Secondly, for the settler violence article, I would say no because I think the scope of
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Can the use of human shields really be compared between Hamas and Israel? Can IDF soldiers who have used in the past what is called the "neighbor procedure" for security operations be compared to Hamas' use of schools, mosques, children's bedrooms and hospitals as hiding places for the organization's
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Topic appears to meet required need to create its own article, since this topic has been the extensive topic of international contentions regarding Hamas as well as a central tenant in the criticism toward Hamas. Furthermore, it appears that there is a lot of extensive research and media reports on
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I am aware of the redirect but I don't think it's sensical for it to go to the timeline of the entire conflict from 1948 onward, I mean that's not just an article about conflicts involving settlers as main parties (settlers being defined in the article as
Israelis who moved to the West Bank or
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This article is about Hamas' use of human shields. If you think Israel uses human shields, you can find reliable sources and make an article, it will survive if the community thinks it meets standards. But this article is about Hamas. If you want an example, an article on the use of torture by
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and is well sourced. The subject has significant in-depth coverage on the use of human shields in this war in particular, though I do think there should be more weight to criticisms of the accusations, the accusations are attributed. As mentioned by
Marokwitz, the article can't be a
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That's not really analogous, though. Operation
Overlord was a legitimate (and heroic) military campaign, not a war crime. Keeping with World War II history, a better analogy would be if you had spun off the "Arguments against justification" section of the
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Useful article and meets all of the criteria for existence as a separate article. Addressing the reason given for the AFD, this is not a POVfork from the noted very general article. It is a more specific article on a vvery wp:notable topic.
380:. There is much to talk about and notable enough. Yet, considering the presence of other militant groups apart from Hamas that also participate(d) in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I would propose renaming it to the aforementioned title.
256:, which covers the full breadth of human shield usage in the IsraeliāPalestinian conflict. This page, by selectively duplicating one-side of this ā rather than splitting out both sides of the content together into a page titled, say,
803:, !votes in deletion discussions should be based on policy and content considerations, not on perceptions of a contributor's motives. Therefore, it is recommended that this particular !vote be set aside in evaluating the consensus.
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article, without preserving any other content or context from the parent article, thereby creating the impression that the carpet-bombing is universally considered unjustifiable and criminal. And even that's not a perfect analogy.
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invaded Israel and murdered over a thousand people with the explicit public motive of genocide, is inflammatory. And it's unwarranted to claim that accusing Gaza of using human shields somehow means human shields become targets.
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1215:, which would also cover every military conflict between Israel and Palestinians, would overwhelm the much smaller scope of Israeli settler violence, which focuses on violence by Israeli civilians. An alternative would be
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article in question, and defended it constantly in its deletion nomination; not a personal attack, just making the point that the user should be aware that if the same standards apply then this article must be kept.
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terrorist organizations in the War on Terror would not be a POVFORK for not covering the use of torture by
America, because the topic is not the use of torture by America. I also like Marokwitz's examples: we have
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argument is not persuasive; if the content was simply spun off from the human shields page, it would encompass allegations against both sides. By selectively emphasizing one side, it is definitionally a POV fork.
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topic. It has the potential to serve as a parent article for multiple related articles, for example, divided by time periods or other aspects of the conflict. Therefore, it is not necessarily too broad in scope.
1581:. Ill also say, given recent news around the event and the delete proposer's actions with the Nakba denial article changes and proposals, this for me follows under an invalid reason to delete specifically
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since by definition, a POV fork requires the existence of another article on exactly the same topic, however, there is no such article. Article splits are permissible when written from a neutral point of
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both
Israeli and Palestinian sources frequently accuse each other of genocide or genocidal intention ... to gain objectivity ... Neutrality (NPOV) will be better served by such an article
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1498:- yes, there has been extensive Israeli use of human shields over the years, including in the more explicit, gun-to-the-head manner, not just the close-to-civilians manner.
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This is absurd. A very prominently-covered phenomenon, which has sparked debate and implied conclusions that have themselves received a lot of coverage. Obviously keep.
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There are plenty of sources that talk about Hamas's use of human shields without mentioning Israel's use of them -- they are not always dealt with as a pair. See, e.g.,
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is definitely fine, its not like it would be the only example. Also note that the deletion proposer here is the same one who created/significantly expanded the
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1850:. The use of human shields represents Hamas warfare. It is exceptional for the IDF to use a human shield, so a big NO also to the rename suggested above.
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The only purpose of this page is to justify the ongoing genocide, by implying that the victims were "human shields" and therefore legitimate targets.
620:. If the consensus here is to consistently apply the same idea across all articles in the I/P conflict space then it would be something I'd support.
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keep. Concerns about the article title and content can be dealt with over at the article's talk page. No point in keeping this open any longer.
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would be far too broad, which would include all war actions. A proposed combined article regarding comparison to Nazis would not be too broad.
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due to there only being a section in another article on the topic, not a stand-alone article. I agree that the article should be renamed to
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i.e., the latter articles in both instances are way too broad to be considered a treatment of both sides of a single aspect of a conflict.
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I saw you delete your reply under this reply in which you off-topic asked me "Do you agree that
Palestinian lives matter?" and then in
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Plenty of high-quality sources cited in the article, and enough in-depth coverage to warrant a separate article. Perhaps rename to
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by engaging in the same copy paste routine that was used to create this article. Accusations/allegations is appropriate per
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453:: Recently, a new tree-based reorganization of all articles in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict space has been proposed by
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write in the change summary "apparently not" when I didn't answer in time. This looks like a failure to
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Factual article about a very important facet if the conflict. Well sourced with high quality sources.
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The above !vote in this AFD discussion appears to contravene
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1142:- Are you sure about the second point, Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict redirects to
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This page was created just as the IDF was starting to invade al-Shifa
Hospital. It's a bit sus. ā
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I agree that it was a bit incivil. But unfortunately there's no way to modify edit summaries. ā
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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1344:. It should be rescoped to cover human shields in the whole I-P conflict by all actors.
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314:- I strongly oppose this proposal. This piece is factual, well sourced and balanced.
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the subject. Therefore there should be an independent article on the subject. meets
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while noting that consideration should be given to the creation of an equivalent
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This article is definitely a POVFORK that ignored the consensus established at
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How is it balanced when it ignores Israel's history of using human shields?
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per North8000. Balanced, sourced, factual article about a notable subject.
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this is a content/naming dispute, not a notability question. Regards, --
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Accusations of use of human shields in the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict
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descend from those who did so since 1967). To me the relation between
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This is no different than hundreds other pages such as, for example,
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I took Marokwitz's example directly, I should have used the example
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I struck it, it didn't contribute much to the conversation anyway. ā
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state which has the explicit public goal of genocide and which just
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Genocide against Palestinians
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where it can be discussed what violence has also been perpetuated
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of people (Palestinians) are being used as human shields in the
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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with the greatest of ease and the article is a well-developed
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which scope does not cover also Israeli political violence.
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Talk:Human_shield#Fork_out_the_Israeli-Palestinian_conflict
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Thanks folks. Consider my opposition to rename withdrawn.
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Comparisons to Nazism in the Israeli Palestinian conflict
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Comparisons to Nazism in the Israeli Palestinian conflict
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Use of human shields in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
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is about. Extensive coverage of the current conflict is
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Use of human shields in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
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Use of human shields in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
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Use of human shields in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
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Use of human shields in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
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Genocide allegations in the IsraeliāPalestinian conflict
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Use of human shields in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
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Use of human shields in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
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Use of human shields in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
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Use of human shields in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
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1369:. Not a POVFORK, just a split, which is exactly what
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or something. If I revised my comparison it would be
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350:, wonder if editors will have the same opinion then.
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Looking at the extensive content that is present in
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Use of human shields by Palestinian militant groups
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600:Question to you: In your opinion, should we rename
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346:. If not, perhaps there should be another article
248:that has been created from exactly one side of a
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1050:Note: This discussion has been included in the
276:Note: This discussion has been included in the
679:per Marokwitz. Impeccably and widely sourced.
522:, use of reliable sources vital and important.
1052:list of Politics-related deletion discussions
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1297:Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
1213:Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
1180:timeline of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
1144:Timeline of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
1119:Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
643:Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
614:Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict
118:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
1784:American logistics in the Normandy campaign
1519:- there are over 1,500 words of content at
1107:Comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany
602:Comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany
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1211:- perhaps, to word my point differently,
571:Human shield#IsraeliāPalestinian conflict
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721:Calling "genocide" on a war against a
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1549:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
1476:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
461:, this is an idea worth considering.
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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963:. The community decided to keep the
1256:Violence involving Israeli settlers
1248:Violence involving Israeli settlers
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1752:. The nom is correct that this is
1272:That sounds much more reasonable!
554:- I am puzzled, you very recently
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103:Introduction to deletion process
559:Palestinian genocide accusation
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915:Use of human shields by Israel
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250:two-sided and balanced section
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93:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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1571:Strong Keep
1500:Iskandar323
1373:is for and
1117:instead of
1109:instead of
923:Selfstudier
894:Strong keep
840:are noted.
298:Iskandar323
262:Iskandar323
208:free images
1844:WP:SPINOFF
1817:WillowCity
1766:WillowCity
1758:WP:SPINOFF
1689:Eladkarmel
1579:WP:POVFORK
1577:and not a
1575:WP:SPINOFF
1554:reply here
1481:reply here
1408:Goldsztajn
1010:WP:POVFORK
977:WP:SPINOFF
973:WP:POVFORK
961:WP:POVFORK
959:and not a
957:WP:SPINOFF
531:WP:POVFORK
525:Also per @
489:WP:POVFORK
424:WP:POVFORK
420:WP:POVFORK
418:and not a
412:WP:SPINOFF
410:This is a
340:same group
246:WP:POVFORK
1877:talk page
1798:(discuss)
1786:off from
1782:. I spun
1629:Channel 4
1393:(discuss)
1306:Marokwitz
1036:North8000
805:Marokwitz
750:this diff
637:Marokwitz
622:Marokwitz
527:Marokwitz
463:Marokwitz
436:Marokwitz
384:š.š¾.š.
316:Dovidroth
294:Palestine
39:talk page
1879:or in a
1793:Hawkeye7
1654:Zanahary
1527:starship
1424:starship
1388:Hawkeye7
1379:WP:UNDUE
1371:WP:SPLIT
1276:starship
1227:starship
1154:starship
940:Jweiss11
919:WP:NDESC
758:WP:CIVIL
727:actually
723:de facto
649:starship
618:Levivich
581:starship
354:starship
286:Military
171:View log
112:glossary
41:or in a
1852:WP:SNOW
1780:evident
1754:at best
1730:Oleg Y.
1586:Lhendre
1515:Piotrus
1492:Piotrus
1383:WP:NPOV
1365:Passes
1254:versus
1056:Curbon7
969:WP:CRIT
875:agreed
756:and be
292:, and
214:WPĀ refs
202:scholar
144:protect
139:history
89:New to
56:WP:SNOW
1856:gidonb
1840:WP:GNG
1746:Rename
1725:WP:GNG
1583:WP:DLS
1532:.paint
1429:.paint
1367:WP:GNG
1281:.paint
1232:.paint
1207:JM2023
1159:.paint
1138:JM2023
1002:Rename
754:WP:AGF
694:Rename
654:.paint
586:.paint
520:WP:GNG
484:WP:GNG
480:Rename
401:WP:GNG
374:Rename
359:.paint
290:Israel
186:Google
148:delete
1848:Hamas
1671:GidiD
836:Your
495:, or
457:here
427:view.
405:WP:RS
229:JSTOR
190:books
165:views
157:watch
153:links
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1860:talk
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1721:Keep
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1640:talk
1609:WaPo
1605:Keep
1590:talk
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1473:. --
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1458:talk
1446:Keep
1412:talk
1363:Keep
1352:talk
1310:talk
1264:talk
1196:talk
1186:and
1178:and
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1113:and
1096:talk
1080:talk
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971:and
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944:talk
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766:talk
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685:talk
677:Keep
626:talk
608:and
539:talk
515:keep
504:talk
467:talk
451:Note
440:talk
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320:talk
312:Keep
302:talk
266:talk
222:FENS
196:news
161:logs
135:talk
131:edit
69:talk
52:keep
1748:to
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1621:NYT
1617:CNN
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